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My point is your critique is lazy and surface level you're just critiquing the two black lead cast characters.
That doesn't mean anything, you can still be ignorant towards other people of colour or your own nationality. Before that derails the thread let's cut it off right there.
Either way, those two characters aren't terrible. LaForge was a nerd at times, with his hologram girlfriend etc but he went through some shit. Burnham isn't as bad as she was in the season opener last year but there's nobody really able to carry the show.
The fact that you're persisting with this is absolutely shocking. You've labelled my criticism (of which have been lengthy and consistent over the past 12 months regarding these characters) as "lazy".
- I criticised two characters, who happen to have black actors, and therefore I am racist. I am African, so I'm presumably a self-hating black man.
- I have criticised Michelle Yeoh's character, which presumably makes me borderline prejudiced against asians.
- I have celebrated Lorca, Stamet, Saru -- all of whom are played by white actors, and so using your logic, I'm effectively a white-supremacist.
Well, I liked the episode. It was quite fun, the engineer lady needs to join the crew and I really liked Pike. He managed to differentiate himself quite well.
Great episode, I for one like having a continuing storyline through the series, its fresh for trek and frankly thats what trek needed. Burnham's fine, Tilly is great, stamets is great, lorca was great, saru grew on me through season one, pike is good, hope the engineer stays on. Mirror Georgiu however needs to stay away.
I thought the first season was a fine but very bumpy ride, loved the premiere. I still have almost no interest in Michael but really like the rest of the crew and despite being kind of weary of the addition during the offseason, Pike is wonderful and immediately my favorite part of the episode. It looked phenomenal and was paced very well, the hour flew by. I'm iffy on the Spock/Burnham plot but still very encouraged by the premiere.
Oh, and Tilly is great.
Oh, and Tilly is great.
That whole episode looked expensive as hell.
I like the premiere, I love Pike.
I'm interested in seeing what they are going to do with it this season. I'm still not sold on the whole young Spock being apart of this season.
The score is one of the best things that this series has, and I would pay an absurd amount for a soundtrack release of this score.
I like Tilly, but I can understand how she can grate some people.
I like the premiere, I love Pike.
I'm interested in seeing what they are going to do with it this season. I'm still not sold on the whole young Spock being apart of this season.
The score is one of the best things that this series has, and I would pay an absurd amount for a soundtrack release of this score.
I like Tilly, but I can understand how she can grate some people.
Man, I feel weirdly out of step with some posters.
I REALLY like Michael and I love Green's performance. I do agree that the show could use a lot more group focus, but absent of that, I am not mad that Michael is the one we stay with the most.
I REALLY like Michael and I love Green's performance. I do agree that the show could use a lot more group focus, but absent of that, I am not mad that Michael is the one we stay with the most.
I agree with you. Sonequa is a great actress and I'm hanging on every word and facial expression as she can't decide whether to be human or Vulcan.
That's what annoys me the most. People keep saying shes a bad actor but she is SUPPOSED to be that way. Vulcans are cold and logical which can be confused with being bad acting when they speak in a flat, matter of fact way. She is a human that spent most of her life on Vulcan.
Speaking of which, I finished my rewatch of season 3 of Enterprise and I really liked T'Pol more than I originally did.
Also this:
Also this:
Yeah I think this is it. You can see a spark of her humanity come through in that scene with her and Tilly in sickbay where she's joking around about being a bad patient, plus during the asteroid field sequence when she's working with the crew to save Pike.
She's a human raised by Vulcans, and even worse, she was raised to be more Vulcan than Vulcans by a man trying to prove a point. I see her as a character who's working to discover and explore her humanity, while still coming to terms with the culture she was raised in.
I feel like the Enterprise/Pike thing was such a nothingburger, but honestly I still don't know what they gained by making Michael related to Spock in the first place.
It's so weird, I like the episode because it reminded me of a class Trek setup - have a problem, use science and engineering to solve it. But there's all the dumb Star Trek historical baggage that gets in the way (Pike, Spock, etc) and then because it's 2019, there HAS to be a SEASON LONG MYSTERY/VILLAIN. They couldn't even have one episode that was just on its own.
It's so weird, I like the episode because it reminded me of a class Trek setup - have a problem, use science and engineering to solve it. But there's all the dumb Star Trek historical baggage that gets in the way (Pike, Spock, etc) and then because it's 2019, there HAS to be a SEASON LONG MYSTERY/VILLAIN. They couldn't even have one episode that was just on its own.
I didn't even know he had been in anything after Hell on Wheels.
Was damn incredible in that though.
Aw, now I want Colm Meaney to play a character in Discovery. Those two had wonderful chemistry.
oh god he was black bolt i must wiped that from my brain i was like inhumans he was in that? lol
Same here. Luckily, Pike seems to fit him like a glove so here's hoping it turns out well.
Hanging out with the rest of Spock's Secret Siblings.
In 30 years, we'll have found out that Sarak's house was full of wayward youth from around the galaxy that he
watched it last night and was oblivious to that. also easier to act when the script isnt shit
A big component from Discovery S1 is that it was kinda badly written though. It wasn't the worst thing ever, I guess, but a lot of the season was floundering in Michael's emotional problems and generally having really fucked up relationships that weren't all that interesting, with often nonsensical resolutions to conflicts (like bringing back Mirror Georgio even though she's one of the most evil people ever). The serialized format isn't an issue, imo, if it's well written, and focusing on bit characters itself wouldn't have been an improvement unless the writing as a whole is better.
Like, I wouldn't say that a characters like Stammets, Lorca or Tilly were better written in S1, but they were breaks from the unending shitstorm that was Michael's life trying to get itself in order. Tilly especially isn't some deep or layered character, but she's the most most tonally distinct of the main cast, who are nearly all super self serious, so her being the silly comedic relief that lightened the fucking mood between Saru's insecurity and Lorca's war-crime brooding and Michael trashfire of a life that she stood out as endearing escape from all the drama. But her actual character just comes down to social awkwardness, wanting to rise in the ranks, and a plucky attitude, which isn't meaningfully more developed than Michael being a walking storm of chaos.
That said, I feel like the first season 2 episode, there was some kind of noticable shift in interaction that's subtle. Like some have pointed out, Michael is still Vulcanning it out for the most part, but acts more socialable and relaxed when she's in the hospital with Tilly. This is important because it means Tilly is now special to Michael - Michael doesn't act around Tilly the way she acts around most people. That's a type of signifier of friendship we didn't really see in Season 1 if it wasn't a plot centric moment like Tilly dragging michael to a party. This is more subtle and natural. It's just one moment in one episode, so it might have just been a fluke, but if this kind of interaction keeps up with Tilly and other characters, it might lead to a much more interesting Michael.
Michael has only ever behaved Vulcan during flasbacks in the pilot, and to a lesser extent, her arrival on Discovery where she struggled to interact with the crew, although in that instance you could argue it was the social unease of being known as the person who started the Klingon war.
In fact, you could watch several episodes of Season 1 -- and without knowing Michael's backstory -- you would never assume she was anything but human. There is nothing Vulcan about her, or unique about her mannerisms, especially in the context of the story she is involved in. Tense; conflicted; distant. She had a guilty conscience after losing her friend and captain. In fact, she has grown more emotional and extroverted. The fact that she's often direct and straight to the point, I feel, is more consistent with her action-like persona than Vulcan sensibility.
Her acting isn't the issue -- it's just that she isn't particularly interesting to lead an entire show.
If you want to talk about how alien crew members have struggled to adapt, or evolve, their human qualities, look at Seven of Nine, and to a greater extent, T'Pol whose gradual transformation is absolutely amazing to watch.
It was OK.
The show really needs to slow down and breathe sometimes, pacing was way too fast and almost every dramatic moment was ruined by a quippy one-liner. I also think they should get rid of the annoying lens flares and weird camera angles. Pike was awesome though.
EDIT: It also bothered me greatly that they are still using friggin GLASS windows /nitpick
The show really needs to slow down and breathe sometimes, pacing was way too fast and almost every dramatic moment was ruined by a quippy one-liner. I also think they should get rid of the annoying lens flares and weird camera angles. Pike was awesome though.
EDIT: It also bothered me greatly that they are still using friggin GLASS windows /nitpick
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You'd think modern Trek writers would remember one of the most iconic sequences of The Voyage Home but apparently that's too much to ask.
Because as much as they want to push "we are science" through "yay maths" dialogue, if anything was shown this episode, it is that this is still action space opera instead of classic science-fi.
The entire sequence was just indulgent pew pew look at how many explosions and cool effects we can do on our little sphere ships. Half-way through the sequence I kinda got bored and thought to myself that the ships reminded me of Lui-Kang and Kitana using a sphere to travel through the Earth in MK Annihilation. Made no sense in that movie either, tbh.
All in all it is still a fun show, but it still doesn't seem to understand what kind of franchise Star Trek was. Or maybe it does and the change is intentional to appeal to a different crowd ecause they have no faith in the existing fanbase to carry a show on this budget.
To give an example. Whenever the Enterprise encountered an issue, Picard would assemble his team for a meeting, they would sit around a table and brainstorm an idea. The would then explore the idea and turn it into a feasible solution during the episode. In this show they encounter a problem, Michael thinks of an idea and they immediately cut to her running down the hallway with the captain and red shirts in tow listening to her explain the solution to them. All so we can get to those nifty action scenes as quickly as possible.
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I've really enjoyed Michael's character, and my only real "complaint" is so much time was spent on her in S1 we didn't really get to know anyone else. But at the same time, her redemption arc was really good I thought.
Basically the same "problem" I had with Spider-verse. I wish we had gotten more of the other spider-people, but it was Mile's story and Mile's story was great.
Basically the same "problem" I had with Spider-verse. I wish we had gotten more of the other spider-people, but it was Mile's story and Mile's story was great.
So is the engineer turned brain surgeon going to stay on the Discovery as a recurring character? I sure as hell hope so because I really liked her. I would even be ok with making her the new chief medical officer! I love the idea of an engineer who decides that medical science is just another engineering problem, it's so ridiculous and that's awesome.
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I am pretty sure she is the new cast member. Most likely remain as Chief Engineer
(since I believe they are bringing Culver back some how)
Maybe I missed it in the thread but has anyone so far pointed out the irony that the only member of the away party who made it to the crashed ship with its pod in one piece is the only red shirt of the group?
That was definitely done on purpose lol.
That was definitely done on purpose lol.
They're still going for that broad appeal so they're still straddling nuTrek and the older series. I honestly don't mind they do the one so long as they don't neglect the other. Hoping Pike brings a lot of that with him.
I also wanted to say that the new interpretation of the classic uniforms was slick. The colors popped and made the Discovery uniforms look dull and lifeless in comparison. I was kind of hoping they'd switch over to the classic uniforms during this episode since they looked really good, but then Pike showed up in the Discovery one later on in the episode, so I guess it was just a tease.
I hope they switch over to the neo-classic uniforms in the next season. I also hope they turn the lights up at some point.
I hope they switch over to the neo-classic uniforms in the next season. I also hope they turn the lights up at some point.
Yes, bring on the colours please. The Discovery uniforms bore me.
Question for Discovery fans: do you think someone would be better served to watch the original series and films first, or to dive right into Discovery? I plan to catch up one day anyway, but wondering which would be better in the near-term. Does the context and appreciation add more, or is it separate enough to be enjoyed without the prior series?
It's definitely separate enough. There are tons of nods and links for fans to appreciate, but you won't be lost. There are probably five or six Original series episodes you should watch after Discovery season 1 though.
Don't try to watch Star Trek as a single chunk following in-universe chronological order, it will just be a mess. It's fine to start with Discovery as it is the new thing made for modern audiences, and if that leaves you wanting for more, go dip your toes in both TOS and TNG and then progress through their respective continuities:
- TOS -> TAS -> TOS movies
- TNG -> TNG movies -> DS9 -> Voyager -> Enterprise*
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I think they will, Pike / his redshirt companion straight up said "we've got the new uniforms though." when they were admiring the look of discovery's corridors..
I think starfleet is doing a slow rollout (similar to how they did it with the TNG movie greys vs. DS9 getting them first) and we'll be full classic colorful by midseason/season's end.
You can just jump right into Discovery. There are references to the universe at large but if you haven't seen other shows they aren't things you'll be confused by or be missing out on. There are things you'll appreciate if you have a history with the franchise but season 1 is designed in a way that anyone new can just start watching. Season 2 I'm less certain about that but we're only one episode in. For as much as some say some characters didn't get a bigger focus in season 1 they still went through a lot of change. Where they are in season 2 so far is very different from where they started. At the very least I feel one should watch season 1 first but it had a decent enough recap of what happen in season 1 minus details.
Outside of Discovery I would suggest check out the pilots for each of the series to get a taste of how they look, what some of the characters are like, etc. If you have the ability to see Discovery you'll have access to all those shows. CBS All Access and Netflix internationally has all the series (US doesn't have Discovery but does have all the other series). I'm not sure about Crave in Canada. I don't think you need to go in universe chronologically or release order (the order is above in another post) either. Whenever a show refers back to something in another show it's an obvious thing and it's explained.
I think going into any of these you just remember that because this is a long running franchise it does retcon and/or break it's own history, rules, etc. Sometimes within the particular series itself. This is something some really hardcore fans like to not acknowledge so just be aware of it.
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I agree with your sentiments regarding Michael. I've come to enjoy the story, characters, and events revolving around Michael, witnessing her growth and interaction with other humans and entities, without her abandoning her Vulcan upbringing...a melding of cultures, if you will. This is Michael's story, after all, and we're all spectators watching her journey unfold. When Picard makes his debut, I'm sure I'll enjoy his journey too. And even Georgiou.