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Stadia Reddit AMA: ''Stadia Pro isn't “Netflix for Games” ...a closer comparison would be like Xbox Live Gold or Playstation Plus''
- Thread starter SuikerBrood
- Start date
Nice joke too. But unless you're playing on PC you're not getting 60 FPS on consoles. A lot of people will try the stadia version that's for sure, like it or not it's still one of the most played games.
Most people for whom fps is a significant factor will also consider latency.
30fps is way better than 60fps with significantly increased latency.
The big thing is going to be the games offered on the 4K service. If you're getting a game a month, then that $120/year gives you 12 games. If they're recent titles then the value proposition goes up substantially.
The latency between players on stadia is lower than on consoles. The input lag between the player and the datacenter is yet to be seen or tested. The game running at 60 FPS on stadia will also help reduce the input lag to some degree.
Give NVidia streaming a shot if you have any doubts. While I have qualms about the performance currently, latency is not one of them. Counter-Strike is even playable with mouse / keyboard. The latency is not bad at all. Akin maybe to playing 60fps with triple buffered vsync.
Considering my experience with NVidia streaming, I expect even lower latency from Stadia. My guess is that in most genres, with a controller, the input lag will be imperceptible.
Also, rumor is that their GPUs will be rendering two game instances at once. With just-in-time rendering, this means we could see the rendering latency cut in half if both clients are properly interleaved. If a console GPU renders your frame in 1/30th of a second, a GPU that is rendering two clients at 30fps each can render each frame in 1/60th of a second, which means you're cutting out 16ms of lag right there assuming the frame is rendered just before the display poll. There are other nifty techniques that can be further used to reduce input lag as well, though it's all speculation at this point.
I would never expect better than native latency from a streaming service, but I do believe it can largely be mitigated to the point of being nearly imperceptible in most scenarios.
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I only tried PSNow, it worked fine in most games but in others it was terrible. But it's a service that got little to no love since it launched so I expect stadia to be leaps and bounds better in every aspect.
That's in ideal conditions, because streaming artefacts / ping can harm the experience.
It's $10 per month if you want 4k, otherwise it's cheaper to buy a current-gen console with a lot of dirty cheap / free games.
$10 x 12 months x 5 years = $600. Next-gen consoles are going to cost less than that.
I was very unimpressed with PS Now. The input lag was certainly noticeable for me there. But PS Now is likely outdated tech at this point.
Yes, but do you believe they won't have any exclusive content in the future? Cmon.
FPS drops on consoles also harms the experience, loading times also harm the experience and many other problems. Every system has pros and cons, you either cope with it or you don''t. But the fact is that the hardware on stadia is next-gen system.
And stadia is still cheaper. With the price I'm going to pay for a console I can buy multiple games on stadia.
You also pay for online on consoles, that's 60 every year.
WIth 500€ I can buy 7 full priced games on stadia. You pay 500 for a box, then you have to pay for online (if you don't have a sub yet) and then you have to buy games on top of that.
I don't know, especially if we are talking about AAA games. At last they could say they have X amount of exclusives in production.
That current-gen, next-gen is going to be much stronger with less cons. I tried once on-live and was dissapointed with the quality.
Even if conditions are ideal i am sure next-gen games will look better on native hw than through streaming (stadia or other service).
It's cheaper if you want FullHD / Stereo. For 4k you need to pay extra, and it's going to be more expensive in long time (> 4 years).
That's true, at least i got a huge backlog of ''free'' games. Now it's interesting how Stadia will handle multiplayer games.
Do you talk about standart or pro Stadia ? On consoles / pc there are a lot of sales, f2p games, second-hand market, a lot of posibilities to save a good amount of money.
I think that streaming might work great only with subscription model (which is absent on Stadia, 1 old game per month is a joke), otherwise i don't see the market for it.
I believe Stadia Pro is already that "separate subscription", unless you're considering third-party services like Uplay Plus.
Not necessarily. Many systems that were backward compatible started off with a ready-made back catalog. People who owned the preceding system could carry their games over to the new one, and people who didn't own the preceding system could dip into those games for the first time.
To reinforce the point LewieP made, the standards have changed over the years. 30-40 years ago, it was acceptable to launch a new platform with only 5 or 6 games. As time passed, and the industry grew, people expected more and more games at launch, to compete with platforms that have established libraries.
In recent years, many services like GameTap, OnLive, PlayStation Now, and Xbox Game Pass were launched with a considerable number of games. They were existing games that were adapted for their respective services.
Stadia is going to launch with only about 30 games, virtually all of which are available on existing platforms. None of these are "next-generation" games by any stretch of the imagination, which is why no one could realistically label this a "next-generation" platform. Maybe it will become one someday, but folks, it ain't there now.
Most people aren't going to care about the hardware "behind the scenes". They're going to care about the game catalog and what they need to pay to play those games. They are not going to be impressed by a small selection of games that they can easily get everywhere else. Google should have really tried to launch Stadia with more games (at least 100) in a more diverse range of genres, including some attractive exclusives that could take advantage of their hardware and streaming technology.
Not having to subscribe to 4K/60 every month is a way to lower the cost, yes, but I'm wondering if 4K is going to be the only downgrade. I could see other things sacrificed besides resolution; draw distance, shadows, reflections etc, to save on bandwidth.
Yeah. I would prefer to play in 4K/60fps. To me, that the biggest selling point of Stadia.
While the gaming world is heading in this direction, Stadia's cost proposition just doesn't do it for me at the moment, especially when there are physical consoles/games as an alternative. Stadia needs to be cheaper for me to want to choose it over something like the PS5.
The fact that the best versions of these games could very well be on Stadia makes in tempting, but I just can't get over not owning any of it. If Stadia fails in a couple of years, and I've amassed a solid collection of games, what happens to them?
As always, it comes down to the software. Stadia could offer insane deals, and some truly great titles as freebies every month. If they manage to make their marketplace alluring, it could be something that sways me. My issue with Stadia right now is simply the cost of the platform. Having everything I've spent and accumulated locked in the cloud, and on a platform that could fail makes me very wary of jumping in.
Why would they do that? They formed their studios months ago and have been heavily recruting.
You tried a serviced from 2010 and now you think stadia sucks too because of that? Streaming services improved a lot since then and stadia, xcloud and the new PSNow are supposed to be much better than that. I'm not saying it's going to be perfect but it's getting there and people who actually tried the BETA for stadia last year enjoyed it a lot.
Also it's true that next-gen consoles are much better than current-gen, but you'll end up having mid-gen refreshes again (PS5 PRO i.e) and on stadia players simply won't have to deal with any of that.
Btw there have been reports from people who actually got to see the service running and they can't noticed diffence between a native game or a streamed one. I'm sure some specialists with trained eye will be able to notice it, but the majority won't. It's the same shit as 4k native vs checkerboard rendering. Even the experts at Digital Foundry got mistaken once while doing an analysis on a game and they're experts.
Even with 4k:
Stadia
5 years 4k = 600
PS5/XBT
Base console - 500
5 years PS+/GwG - 300 = 800
Even if the consoles cost 400, it's still 100€ more. So no it's not cheaper, it depends on the services you use, it depends on a lot of things for both consoles and stadia.
Myself will not be using 4k on stadia because I game on a 1080p (just like the majority of players).
You also get "free games" with stadia PRO.
I want to talk about everything. Stadia will the cheapest way to enjoy AAA gaming, like it or not. They'll also have discounts and sales, it's no different from other platforms.
There's pros and cons for every platform I'm just not sure why people are so against this, I'm open minded I like new things and I actually studied a bit of cloud computing so I'm excited for the platform. Anyway no one is forcing to use it, but I'm sure many of the people trashing the platform now will be some of the first to try it once it goes live in 2020.
It isn't an either or for everyone. Stadia may not be for you and that's ok but it can be for others who don't mind just playing games and not worrying about collecting them for resale. We still have old school gamers who refuse to buy digital but it is still a very viable option for many. Convenience goes a lot further than you want to admit.
They didn't say those types of things would be downgraded so I'm not expecting them to be
Nor should you. The games they've shown so far have been running maxed out.
The future of gaming will be won on convenience. I have no doubt about that.
My hope was/is that Stadia would have the ability to reach billions of people, potentially. Without an expensive console putting off casual gamers, the idea would be to have games easily accessible to billions with Stadia. And with that, the hope is that games would come down in price, similar to movies.
If Stadia was to change the way billions of people access AAA games by lowering the price of entry, I'm all for it, but it doesn't look like they are going for that market.
I could be wrong (I hope I am). I'm all for a consoleless future, but not at the current price of AAA games ($80CAN here in Canada).
That requirement though would be once, then you can watch it without having to connect to the internet. The same can't be said about Stadia.
What does that mean, it won't support it at launch? How is that a feature that would take significant time to implement, the controllers have to have the necessary hardware in the first place if this is being planned.
The barrier to enter in the beginning will certainly be lower but publishers have shown they are not interested in lowering the suggested retail of $60 new titles. Even when Epic tried in their sales devs were pissed because it changed the optics that $60 is too high, Same with Amazon Prime the studios didn't like the suggested retail price shown to be lower so it isn't until you get to the cart is where the price dropped.
It does say Stadia Pro members get a discount but it is unclear at the moment what that discount is and if it applies to brand new titles.
Yes, that would be sub category of internet required. First level, both requiere internet to work? Yes, the sub category question is does one of them allow you to download the content USING INTERNET, so you can access it without an internet connection?
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AFAIK this is wrong, and the Stadia version has full cross-save just like the others.
But they could downgrade visual quality at anytime in Stadia, when they need more resources.
Well the service wouldn't be for you. No one is forcing anyone to buy into Stadia.
I just want to try one of these services for myself. That's all I care about at this stage.
But Stadia, Playstation Now, and GeForce Now aren't available in Australia. If XCloud launches here, it wins as far as I'm concerned.
But Stadia, Playstation Now, and GeForce Now aren't available in Australia. If XCloud launches here, it wins as far as I'm concerned.
Games you can not play without an ongoing subscription. When this folds, your entire investment disappears with it. As for the PS+ comparison, every single game I purchased can be played if Sony shuts everything down. Sore, online games won't work, but that is not unique to any one particular company and if the game requires online servers from the jump, you know what you are buying upfront.
Also, that 1080p variable stream will look "great" on your 4K TV. In a world where you can buy a 4K TV for ~$250, these games will appear sub-optimal. Additionally,many people will need to raise their datacaps, deal with congested wifi in their home, etc. all to provision a game that works JUST FINE on the dedicated hardware you buy once and keep for 5-10 years.
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The people that could use it. MANY could not. And they also picked a game that is forgiving when it comes to latency.
Every single game that came out for the PS4 Pro works on the PS4. Don't need to mid-gen refresh if you don't want to.
It is all HIGHLY dependent on where you live, type of connection topology you have access to, wired vs wifi, etc. And, with ALL of the cloud gaming services, including the ones not released yet, there are moments when everything is compromised. Including access to the actual data center service. Custom infrastructure does not scale the same way that generalized compute services do. Guaranteed to have queues when hit games come online.
Except that you can play every downloaded/purchased game (save online only/features) when the console is discontinued. Not ot mention that, like most average consumers, you will have to upgrade to more expensive data plans from your ISP to handle the overhead that realtime streamed games will demand. For example, that 35mbit requirement? That is not the aggregate connection to your home. The Stadia stream will required a dedicated 35mbit out of your bandwidth. So, cram all of your Netflix, Spotify, email, web cameras, etc. into the remaining 15mbit of bandwidth for the average 50mbit household and, well, good luck there.
Then, under the 1080p offering out the gate, you will not be taking advantage of all of that high end hardware they are building upon.
You also get "free games" with stadia PRO.
Again, not really. And, only if you live in an area that can provide you with adequate bandwidth AND they have enough servers to handle capacity. I know Google is big, but they couldn't prevent a 45 min outage during last year's World Cup stream in the US. Static video streams, which they have been doing longer than most any company on the web. So, they are going to handle real time compute services, with bandwidth requirements being an order of magnitude greater than YouTube streams, on exotic hardware, for millions of players? We shall see.
Because the issues that cloud game services purport to solve are not valuable enough to outweigh the significant downside, and what consumers give up, to make the value equation work.
Doom Eternal is not forgiving when it comes to latency and the majority of the people who played it said it worked fine.
You do if you want the best peformance you'll eventually upgrade, the PS4 Pro works wonders as a 1080p machine. Not so much on 4K.
Like I said it's something that people who will game on cloud platforms will not have to worry about.
So is having to wait on maintenance in order to play online or having xbox live or PSN outtages or powercuts. It's no different in that regard.
Yet to be seen on Stadia or Xcloud. I'm sure they'll have a beefy infrastructure to avoid that.
I can also continue to play games on stadia and it won't be discontinued, it's no different than consoles.
I also don't upgrade to to more expensive data plans want to know why? Because I don't have download caps. I also don't need to upgrade internet speed because they do that for me automatically as they evolve their network. It's called living in a country with decent internet.
Like I said many times before, cloud gaming won't be for everyone but there will be an audience for it and it will grow overtime. Either you like it or not, eventually it will become the standard to play videogames.
Ofc I will, the games will run maxed out.
I don't care about the free games, unless they're quality. If it's the same type of games they give every month on GwG or PS+ then I have zero interest.
I'll be playing it because it's the cheapest way to play videogames. Assuming it works fine ofc.
Yes, yes really. It's cheapest way to enter AAA gaming, you can try to bring every argument you want, but when stadia launches in 2020 it will be the entry level for AAA gaming. By then it will be a fact.
That's up to consumers to decide, not you.
I don't want to buy 1000€ GPU's, I don't want to buy 500€ consoles, I'm also sick and tired of downloads and updates. Like I said there's pros and cons to everything,
Remember, the controller isn't connecting to any device, it isn't connecting to the Chromecast Ultra, it is connecting directly to the Stadia servers over Wifi. So they likely would have to work on syncing the audio latency added by Bluetooth to the latency from the signal. It's a firmware issue, thus isn't guaranteed to be ready for launch.
It's also possible that they mean that the controllers available at launch in November won't have bluetooth support, but later ones will (this seems more likely to me).
i can't believe people can't see the potential of this
They are giving you 11 Teraflops for little to no cost
They are giving you 11 Teraflops for little to no cost
Felt the same way when I tried it at GDC. Remember, this was in a controlled environment, not at home.
And the standard PS4 games run 1080p games just fine as well.
Scheduled outages, or even periodic service issues are no where near the same thing. If their server installation for a region is saturated, you will have to wait to play. Think about it this way: it's the difference between having momentary/limited Netflix outages vs being told too many people are watching a movie so please try to watch later.
The only way to avoid this is to have, specifically, enough xCloud servers or Stadia servers to handle the load. There is NO WAY for them to offload to general linux boxes for times of over saturation, like you can with general web services.
Wrong. You can only play if you have a connection to Stadia and, if they shut it down, you r entire catalog of retail purchased games disappears. You are basically renting games for $60 a pop.
Data caps have nothing to do with bandwidth and latency. Great if you live in an area with fat pipes. The majority of people don't.
Absolutely, cloud has its place in the future of video games. As a wholesale replacement for dedicated hardware / local execution of games? Absolutely not. It will be an additional option, that the minority of the market can take advantage of, not the way the majority of the market will consume them for a LONG time, if ever totally shifting to cloud only.
Of course it's up to consumers and not me. As for the cheapest way to enter AAA gaming, that depends on a LOT of things, all working perfectly. To date, not a single cloud gaming service has tackled the issues to create a service that delivers an equivalent, local rendered experience with consistent quality and performance. And, for the record, I have tried all of the major ones.
Oh, and if you don't like updates and downloads, many of which can be done automatically when you are not playing, wait until you are told you can't play because their servers are full. Even for single player games.
A rental would suggest the game has to be returned at a certain time or certain condition like GameFly, neither is true for something you buy on stadia
If it shuts down you lose it but that's still not a rental
Server side performance is not the issue. Latency and throughput are, at the last mile. The stretch that they can't control.
Ask yourself, why did Sony start letting PS Now users download games to play locally on their PS4 instead of streaming them?
Sure! If they close the service, what are you left with? Where is your $60 game? So, don't call it a rental. Your video game purchase is now just fees into a pure service. Would you feel the same way if Netflix started charging you $5 for new run movies?
You lose it but as long as stadia is up the game is not a rental you own it while stadia exists, they also said something about downloading your game to google takeout im not sure what that is
So you are comfortable having the games you buy be completely locked behind a service that is required to access them? Forever? Never to be played without incurring any more costs?
Download to what? Their games are custom ports to a custom linux build on custom infrastructure. Furthermore, if the promise of Stadia is that you can play games that your devices couldn't run, what are you going to run them on?
Give us your technical argument.
Not downloading your game, downloading your metadata, ie. save files and the like.
Yes im comfortable with it because of all the positives it brings makes it worth the risk, if psn ever shuts down I'll lose those game's too
Like i said I don't know what they were talking about I I'm not even sure what google takeout is
Only the "included with Pro" games would be locked behind the paywall; games you "buy" would be available to you even if you cancel your sub, on the free tier.
Sure! At 1080p. Or, you can just buy it for your console and play it "forever" without compromise. If multi point access is worth it for some, then great! Who am I to tell anyone what they should or should not do?
No, you could download every game you purchased and play them on your PS console for good (minus the free games for PS+, but that's the same for every promotional service).
Yeah some people definitely are.
How many people is the question; this thread going back and forth on it is a bit exhausting lol
I'm excited to see where Stadia goes, whether it takes off, etc.. but I can't say I'm bullish on it. I think game streaming is going to flop personally.
Nah, bluetooth is part of the design. It uses BLE to communicate with your phone to get set up and paired up with wifi.