Agree with this 1000 %.
Max has also said she seems really upset at the aftermath in the remake.
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Square-Enix just pulled a "Han shot first" in the Final Fantasy VII Remake / Spoilers.
- Thread starter Kakihara
- Start date
Eh, it's not my preference but they still intended to blow up the reactor, so it doesn't really change much
The AVALANCHE members will still think they blew the reactor up
The AVALANCHE members will still think they blew the reactor up
The problem is Reeve knows that they didn't, so he can't call Barret out on it later. It totally will mess with Reeve's dynamic with Avalanche and role in the story.
Seems like they still attempted it and believe they succeeded?
It's a small change, yes, but not one that drastically changes the trajectory of the arcs.
It's a small change, yes, but not one that drastically changes the trajectory of the arcs.
I agree entirely with this.
AVALANCHE fully intented for that bomb to cause a reaction to blow up the first reactor... If anything it alludes to maybe Jessie's engineering isn't great and sets up the train to Reactor 5 more.
About 1:05 Barret talks about how sacrifices have to be made, this is in the og, here is when they chat about what happened just when they're escaping.
Also the reveal of Tifa later in the trailer whe she says she feels trapped.
It doesn't change the arc but it does change player perception.
To me it is and frankly, my opinion for me in regard to this is the only one that matters.
Only if you believe that framing means nothing. How the characters react isn't the point, it's how this affects the way the player sees things.
"evil corporation seizes an opportunity to do a false flag against the good guys" is a lot different from "well-meaning terrorists deal with the catastrophic consequences of their own incompetence"
like, if it's a story angle you PREFER, sure, that's fine, but acting like it's the same thing is bonkers
like, if it's a story angle you PREFER, sure, that's fine, but acting like it's the same thing is bonkers
Barret can still be called out. Despite the results, the intentions are still there and gave ShinRa a catalyst to fan the flames of another (larger) conflict. I mean, if the results of Reactor 1 blowing up lead to a change in the Remake with Barret saying "we aren't doing this anymore, the cost is too great", yet ShinRa goes on blowing up more reactors independently, still pinning it on AVALANCHE, sure, I could absolutely understand people complaining.
But Barret and Co go off to blow up MORE reactors. The man is still actively setting out to conduct terroristic activities- and his team is following him, no?
This, this is the big problem with the change, the way it changes the player perspective is not good
I think that's fair, to a degree. But it's not a huge shift in perception either.
They attempted to blow it up, just failed at it. That decision was still made by the characters and was not averted by them, that's a part of those characters personality irrespective of the actual result. They did what they intended to do and believed they did it successfully.
I do agree it's a change but I do not think going from eco-terrorists to less successful eco-terrorists changes much for character motivations and arcs, or even player perception.
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I'm pretty sure the player forgot about it as soon as Sephirot became the main treat and the topic shifts entirely.
I agree. This is lame sanitizing.
It's not about ruining the original, it's about making an inferior story choice in the adaptation.
They didn't intend to blow it up like that though. They intended to disable the reactor with a small controlled explosion.
Cool, don't buy the game then my guy. Don't give your money to Square Enix, cuz clearly you hate everything about it based off of this one thing. Cancel your preorder and throw all your Square Enix stuff away.
Honestly the way the remake is putting more emphasis on the war with Wutai early on is great - it was barely mentioned in the original despite it essentially being a world war.
I also feel it's more relevant to the modern world to have a government manipulating the narrative with terrorists to justify furthering their war effort.
A remake shouldn't be a 1:1 version of the original IMO, the only thing that'll make me annoyed is if Nojima brings in that ridiculous FFX connection
For what it's worth I doubt anyone at Shinra is gonna tell Reeve about Sector 1, chances are it'll stay between the president and Heidegger.
I do think they'll find out, though, but I still think there's more than enough "blame" on Avalanche for them to feel guilty. They might just think that they kicked the hornet's nest and were planning on damaging the livelihoods of regular civilians, regardless of whether they were directly responsible for this one instance in the end.
I also feel it's more relevant to the modern world to have a government manipulating the narrative with terrorists to justify furthering their war effort.
A remake shouldn't be a 1:1 version of the original IMO, the only thing that'll make me annoyed is if Nojima brings in that ridiculous FFX connection
For what it's worth I doubt anyone at Shinra is gonna tell Reeve about Sector 1, chances are it'll stay between the president and Heidegger.
I do think they'll find out, though, but I still think there's more than enough "blame" on Avalanche for them to feel guilty. They might just think that they kicked the hornet's nest and were planning on damaging the livelihoods of regular civilians, regardless of whether they were directly responsible for this one instance in the end.
I actually kinda like this. It really drives home how evil Shinra is
No he can't. Reeve sticks with Shinra because he believes that they are the lesser of two evils. He knows Shinra is bad, but he can work from within to do good. But Avalanche blew up 2 reactors and killed hundreds/thousands of innocent people and he can't forgive that, and when Shinra does the same that puts him in a grey area. He agrees to spy on Avalanche and betrays them for Shinra and plays both sides. If Shinra is 100% responsible for all the bad shit Avalanche did in the original, Reeve has no reason to betray Avalanche and call them murderers, and Reeve has no leg to stand on for his own development.
Is it really this way? I ask honestly because I don't remember the "we just wanted to disable it with a controlled explosion" this is something I'm reading here.
Yes the players forgot about it so much that 23 years later there's a thread about how they are changing it in the remake. I don't mean to be facetious but this has very much been a relatively important thing for years to people
If you talk to Jessie after the bombing run in the original she says that the explosion wasn't meant to be that big and questions what she did wrong when making the bomb.
That's exactly what I felt when playing the demo. Maybe there's a scene later on where they confirm it like it was implied in the original ?
But ShinRa still isn't 100% responsible. AVALANCHE is still out there setting up reactor bombs, causing public discourse, attempted assassination attempts (? tbd how that plays out).
Nah, sorry but I don't buy it. It matters now because it's all there is.
Yeah because all the other stuff in the Midgar section wasn't enough to establish that. Shinra doesn't need to be shown as more evil. They already clearly were.
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I know. But it was the only widely known parallel thing which is kinda similiat. Besides that: The title becomes more interesting.
Yeah, I always looked at that as their 'Hail Mary' play, like "ok... enough of this Avalanche shit". Can't even imagine how devastating that's going to be in Remake.
Yes I remember that, but I never took it like just disabling it but just that it wouldn't blew up as much.
This, and knowing full well the death that was caused by the first attack, they decide to follow it up by bombing another reactor. So I don't see how it lets the characters off the hook at all. It's like people think intention and motivation have no meaning.
Han shooting first was the original scene.
So they didn't pull a Han Shot First. They pulled a Greedo Shot First.
Went into this thread expecting someone explaining why they were pleasantly surprised that Square Enix kept a story element that people thought they might change.
Well, the point of that was to try and kill Avalanche by dropping the plate on them. In this scenario they wait until Avalanche has gotten to safety before blowing the reactor when they could have blown the reactor at any time, which makes Shinra look really incompetent. Also, dropping the plate didn't destroy any reactors, which is all Shinra cares about. They've destroyed multiple towns before.
If you think about it- knocking out the power grid for an entire section of a city is going to get people killed regardless.
Alots of people gonna die from Traffic incidents, lots of patients would die in hospitals.
Alots of people gonna die from Traffic incidents, lots of patients would die in hospitals.
I kind of like the change tbh. Avalanche meant to do it, now when it leads to those fatalities they'll still think that it was their fault. They have no way of knowing that it wasn't their bomb so all of the moral dilemmas still fall on their conscious. This just shows you how bad Shinra is up front.
With this plot expansion it seems like they will probably use events like this (the reactor) as seed to fully blame Avalance for it when they finally drop the sector.
They still are though, as they did take an action that would kill those people as collateral damage, it just didn't work out and Shinra ended up doing the job to put the blame on them. And it's not like it was a deep and important plot point in the original anyway, they brush it off and forget about it almost immediately.
This... it doesn't improve their image, it doesn't absolve them from their crimes, it just makes them look stupid. This is a baffling bad change.
This isn't real life, there needs to be a narrative reason for such things, especially when they diverge from the source material. So what is gained from this change? It's not new insight on the good guys or the bad guys. It doesn't effect how the players view the world, or any of the characters view the world... It's just silly.
If they were expanding out the scene to pad the run time I can almost see it, but then you could have just had the entire scene extended versus changing it as they did. It's bad writing plain and simple.
Avalanche are still people you'd want dead if they were in the real world. Again I'm bringing up this point, they kill the equivilent of security guards to blow up/disrupt a factory... and its not like those guards had families or something.
I wish the game kept a counter of how many human enemies you killed and shinra news would more or less say " Avalanche killed 20+ people in an terrorist attack, we send thoughts and prayers to their families/love ones"
I wish the game kept a counter of how many human enemies you killed and shinra news would more or less say " Avalanche killed 20+ people in an terrorist attack, we send thoughts and prayers to their families/love ones"
Doesn't shinra go to blow up some other sector on their own later ... I don't see why this was needed, they do it eventually and then blame avalanche
it was perfectly set up before...
Avalanche blows up a reactor ... people are killed.. they're portrayed as bad guys... "what have I done?"
Shinra levels a whole sector and then blames avalanche making them look even worse... they played em.
now theres no "what have I done?" now it's just boring good guys vs bad guys ...
Hint: AVALANCHE was never good guys... they were terrorists doing the wrong thing for reasons they thought were justified. now they took away their accountability
the line that barret says late game in which he questions how they went about things early will carry less weight since they never hurt anyone and it was all shinra...
Yeah, I always question why people think it changes nothing regarding Han there. The point of the changes was to remove responsibility by making it look like he only shot because Greedo did, a "true act of self defense" rather than Han being a smuggler who is morally grey and who would kill just to survive. Han is a hero, so George Lucas scrubbed this out because a hero doesn't do this. The deaths in the original films were always of important figures being struck down by evil or struck down by good, but Han doesn't fit in this narrative because he's a morally grey person shooting a bounty hunter who's job is often to take in notorious and most wanted criminals, which Han is.
They have footage of Avalanche members infiltrating and attacking security at the reactor in this case.
And the Giantbomb video mentioned that
There is a second reactor mission added to the remake, so I guess now we're actively participating in both reactor scenarios.