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NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
Is having Pikachu over Pokemon Trainer in the first Smash Bros prioritizing Pikachu spinoff games?

Pokemon was always an odd case though, Pokemon are the one who fight in Pokemon, and Pikachu is playable in every single mainline Pokemon game. Smash even references the trainer battles since the first game by showing the coming out of Pokeball animation like in the in-game battles. Even when Pokemon Trainer was added, the entire gimmick is just that he allows real time switching between three different Pokemon during a battle, rather than fighting directly.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Have always felt, and continue to feel, that the Dragonborn would make a lot more sense than the Doomslayer - mainly due to the challenges around a Doomslayer moveset avoiding realistic guns, which was a big challenge with Snake. Same company and, I'd argue, at this point probably equally iconic. Doom guy is much older though, of course.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
Persona is under the MegaTen umbrella, there's no debate over that.

The common debate you're thinking of is whether the games are Shin Megami Tensei games, or if it's its own branch of the Megami Tensei tree.

Yeah, I got used to correcting people saying it is in the shin series I jumped the gun and made a mistake.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Have always felt, and continue to feel, that the Dragonborn would make a lot more sense than the Doomslayer - mainly due to the challenges around a Doomslayer moveset avoiding realistic guns, which was a big challenge with Snake. Same company and, I'd argue, at this point probably equally iconic. Doom guy is much older though, of course.

Actually seeing as how Dragonborn would represent the Elder Scrolls as a series rather than just Skyrim they're about the same age (1994 for TES, 1993 for Doom). TES protagonists' abilities haven't really changed much throughout the series so you could definitely have them represent other games in the series too.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
Have always felt, and continue to feel, that the Dragonborn would make a lot more sense than the Doomslayer - mainly due to the challenges around a Doomslayer moveset avoiding realistic guns, which was a big challenge with Snake. Same company and, I'd argue, at this point probably equally iconic. Doom guy is much older though, of course.
How would they do Skyrim justice though, since Smash is a game with a competent art team and great combat?

It just wouldn't feel like Elder Scrolls if my eyes aren't bleeding while I swing my foam sword at mannequins.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
I thought this was just about Erdrick and now there's talk about Doom Slyer, Ryu (Hayabusa?) and Minecraft Steve?

full
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Actually seeing as how Dragonborn would represent the Elder Scrolls as a series rather than just Skyrim they're about the same age (1994 for TES, 1993 for Doom). TES protagonists' abilities haven't really changed much throughout the series so you could definitely have them represent other games in the series too.

Mainly I just feel the shouts are like moves practically made for Smash specials, but yeah - easy enough to rep TES in general with spells and references.
 

ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,425
Lol I love how these threads always just turn into wishlists after like ten pages.

On that note

I re-iterate that the true Goddess must get in

untitled-9-1502718801630_1280w.jpg


pls
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
I thought this was just about Erdrick and now there's talk about Doom Slyer, Ryu (Hayabusa?) and Minecraft Steve?

full
After Joker was announced, there was a leak of Erdrick, Doomguy, Ryu, and Steve, and for some reason people think it must be right since no one could have predicted that the original JRPG which has sold 70 million units and has been on Nintendo consoles since the NES would have its most recognizable hero added.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Have always felt, and continue to feel, that the Dragonborn would make a lot more sense than the Doomslayer - mainly due to the challenges around a Doomslayer moveset avoiding realistic guns, which was a big challenge with Snake. Same company and, I'd argue, at this point probably equally iconic. Doom guy is much older though, of course.
Sounds completely reasonable, but I still don't want Dragonborn because we'd just get Nord Warrior Dude with Sword & Shield, just like all the promo materials.

My Dragonborn was a stealthy Argonian archer. Someone else's was a Dark Elf Wizard. Another was a Light Armor Dual Wielding Redguard. And none of those are going to get into Smash.
 

Laxoon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,831
He would be immediately and completely banned in competitive play.
Probably.
In that case, scaled down to something like MvC2 Jill may work.


Have always felt, and continue to feel, that the Dragonborn would make a lot more sense than the Doomslayer - mainly due to the challenges around a Doomslayer moveset avoiding realistic guns, which was a big challenge with Snake. Same company and, I'd argue, at this point probably equally iconic. Doom guy is much older though, of course.
Strikes me almost like a Namco Heihachi/Pac-man situation. IIRC Namco wanted Heihachi in to rep Tekken but Nintendo wanted Pac-Man. If they were dealing with Bethesda you'd think Beth would want to push Elder Scrolls more but like Pac-Man, Doomguy has a bigger history and tied closer to Nintendo due to the ties to the SNES and N64 days.
Could see it going either way tho and would blow up for either.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,296
Houston, TX
Probably.
In that case, scaled down to something like MvC2 Jill may work.



Strikes me almost like a Namco Heihachi/Pac-man situation. IIRC Namco wanted Heihachi in to rep Tekken but Nintendo wanted Pac-Man. If they were dealing with Bethesda you'd think Beth would want to push Elder Scrolls more but like Pac-Man, Doomguy has a bigger history and tied closer to Nintendo due to the ties to the SNES and N64 days.
Could see it going either way tho and would blow up for either.
I thought it was Sakurai who wanted Pac-Man? Nintendo making the picks is a pretty recent concept.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,740
NoVA
I thought it was Sakurai who wanted Pac-Man? Nintendo making the picks is a pretty recent concept.
I'm having trouble finding the specific mentions, but it wasn't just Sakurai. Miyamoto's gone on record for wanting to see him in the game, at least if I'm remembering right.
 
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Laxoon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,831
I'm having trouble finding the specific methods, but it wasn't just Sakurai. Miyamoto's gone on record for wanting to see him in the game, at least if I'm remembering right.
Yeah wasn't sure if it was Miyamoto or Sakurai so just went with a vague 'Nintendo' on that.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
Sounds completely reasonable, but I still don't want Dragonborn because we'd just get Nord Warrior Dude with Sword & Shield, just like all the promo materials.

My Dragonborn was a stealthy Argonian archer. Someone else's was a Dark Elf Wizard. Another was a Light Armor Dual Wielding Redguard. And none of those are going to get into Smash.
Those could all be implemented with colors. And the move set could allow for ranged, magic, and swords
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,097
Maybe someone has already mentioned this, but I think it wouldn't be out of line to treat the Dragon Quest Hero character like Bowser Jr is treated. Have each game's hero as a different "costume." They have height differences but I don't think it would be too crazy to work around that.

yeah, Miyamoto wanted Pac-Man in as far back as Brawl but Sakurai shot it down at the time

Imagine "shooting down" a direct request from Miyamoto
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
Maybe someone has already mentioned this, but I think it wouldn't be out of line to treat the Dragon Quest Hero character like Bowser Jr is treated. Have each game's hero as a different "costume." They have height differences but I don't think it would be too crazy to work around that.



Imagine "shooting down" a direct request from Miyamoto
I'm not totally sure, but one slight quirk is that to my knowledge Erdrick is the only one that's named. If they're all just called "Hero" that's an easy fix though.
 

BGBW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,273
Doom Marine rumour is the new Grinch hoax, but without a silly picture to at least analyse.
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
1,454
The debate between Endrick and slime is simple - if you had to choose between mario and piranha plant what would you choose.
Or the choice between a moogy and cloud.

If they were first-party you can include both, but the protagonist would always take precedence in these dlc choices imo.
 

edamame

Member
Oct 28, 2017
288
Of course the leaks could all be inaccurate, but for me these rumors are a good reason not to buy the season pass sight unseen. I have zero interest in Minecraft dude and Doom guy, and while I appreciate Erdrick as a deserving DQ rep I'm not too jazzed about him either.

We'll see when everything is officially announced, but if Erdrick, Ryu Hayabusa, Minecraft and Doom guy do indeed join Joker to comprise the five DLC characters...Ryu is probably the only one of the five I'd consider buying.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
I'm not totally sure, but one slight quirk is that to my knowledge Erdrick is the only one that's named. If they're all just called "Hero" that's an easy fix though.
Loto(Erdrich) is kind of an epithet of sorts more than a proper name. The 10th hero does have a name, it's Ann Lucia, but hasn't been translated into English. If she is an option they might not use her name.
 

Wil Grieve

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,049
Eh. Even setting aside the Slime, Dragon Quest has tons of more recognizable and interesting characters than Erdick.

Most of them already got repped in the DQ Heroes games though, so I ain't too miffed that none of them are getting into Smash.

Slime is pretty much the only one I recognize. That and the farmer looking dude.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I'm sure slime and other DQ monsters will be represented in the Alefgard stage well. It's why I imagine Sakurai chose to have Rathalos as a boss instead of as a Ridley style character.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,257
Honestly of we got two Dragon Quest reps, I don't think slime would even be number 2. I think Erdrick is first, and the Dragon Quest V hero (does he have a Canon name?) Would be second. That game introduced monster collecting. It influenced other games like Pokemon and Digimon. I think his moveset would be built around summoning monsters to fight for him.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,296
Houston, TX
I'm sure slime and other DQ monsters will be represented in the Alefgard stage well. It's why I imagine Sakurai chose to have Rathalos as a boss instead of as a Ridley style character.
To be fair, Monster Hunter also has a viable playable character option with the regular Hunter herself/himself. It doesn't have to be Rathalos.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,504
all this talk about edrick and we're forgetting the most deserving DQ protagonist
tornekobxe75.png

Berordn tells a naff gag.

...But it failed!

I'm sure slime and other DQ monsters will be represented in the Alefgard stage well. It's why I imagine Sakurai chose to have Rathalos as a boss instead of as a Ridley style character.

If this is the case I'll be pretty satisfied. Having them show up as stage hazards would be a lot of fun.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Lol I love how these threads always just turn into wishlists after like ten pages.

On that note

I re-iterate that the true Goddess must get in

untitled-9-1502718801630_1280w.jpg


pls
tenor.gif


Honestly, the only character I care about still getting in. Everyone else is alrerady here.
Best music.
Best moveset.
Honestly, after god damn K. Rool made it, why should't Ammy?

Gimme.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,559
K. Rool is a truly disgusting creature and I hate him but he's on a whole other level of Star Power compared to Amaterasu
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,296
Houston, TX
Villager and Inkling have two black skins.
I think they mean black by default.

Is Steve the first black Smash character
IF the rumor proves to be legitimate, I guess. Ganondorf is from the Gerudo Tribe, & Urbosa is considered to be black by many, so I suppose Ganondorf would technically be the first one. But at the same time, there is some debate over Ganondorf, so perhaps Steve wouldn't be as big of an argument either way.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I think they means black by default.

Either way, IF the rumor proves to be legitimate, I guess. Ganondorf is from the Gerudo Tribe, & Urbosa is considered to be black by many, so I suppose Ganondorf would technically be the first one.
I always assumed the Gerudos were supposed to evoke Middle Eastern races, Twilight Princess Ganondorf aside.
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
But in their cases, Dante would have to ditch Ebony, Ivory, & Coyote-A (though he has more than enough Devil Arms to compensate). Likewise, Doom Slayer would have to ditch his iconic shotgun with a focus on sci-fi weapons & explosives.
King K Rool got away with a Blunderbus and Bayonetta with Scarborough Fair. Doom Slayer can peobably get away with the shotgun provided its the meathook variant we've seen in previews of Doom Eternal.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,296
Houston, TX
King K Rool got away with a Blunderbus and Bayonetta with Scarborough Fair. Doom Slayer can peobably get away with the shotgun provided its the meathook variant we've seen in previews of Doom Eternal.
The former played up the cartoony aspect, while the latter played up the magical aspect (though Scarborough Fair isn't the default, it's Love is Blue).
 

Pascal

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
10,228
Parts Unknown
At this point, my two most wanted DLC characters are Ammy and Hollow Knight. I think both would be great additions to the roster.