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SPOILERS - Second Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC Fighter Datamined
- Thread starter MondoMega
- Start date
Suggestion: If they're going to add a Dragon Quest character + music, they should add an LGBTQ+ character to counter Sugiyama's homophobia.
For instance...
For instance...
Also, there are no women at all rumored in this DLC pack, so please add her Nintendo.
Maybe, but this is a case where it's very out in the open and blatant.
Well like Sonic says, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
At the least this guy shows he's a total bastard so I can make an informed decision to stay away from him, but then it's also easy for me to make that choice since my distaste for Sugiyama outweighs any love I have for Dragon Quest. If the developers of Hollow Knight suddenly revealed themselves as ardent Trump fans or something I'd probably be more willing to twist myself in knots justifying why I don't need to give up my favourite game.
Keeping track of what each character is identified by when coding and reading through code would be a lot easier with code names than numbers.
Sure it could be done, but would the hassle be worth it? Probably not.
People hate Sugiyama. The series also just doesn't hold any relevance to people outside of Japan. Not really a hard thing to grasp.
If DQ is there, it's obviously that it's mainly a option for Japan. What's better than one of it's biggest franchises? The majority of the characters on Smash for quite some time are made for the west or for Japan/West in mind too so this is quite a exception.
Let me play the devil's advocate:
1) To promote the upcoming N64 Mini, which for sure will require working with MS (even DK64 has Rare-owned content)
2) To fulfill one of the highest voted characters in the Ballot; a guaranteed audience and hype machine
3) To represent the N64 era in general, which has really bad representation in Smash atm
4) Every other 3rd party is getting 2 reps, so why not Microsoft?
5) Banjo has been requested by both Eastern and Western fans since Melee
6) To strengthen their relationship with MS in general
7) Obviously there's a Crash/Spyro-style Banjo remake in development for his 20th, coming to both Xbox and Switch
8) Okay, I went a little too far with that one
9) But seriously, moveset potential is through the roof
10) And Duck Hunt Duo obviously mainly got in as a reference to Banjo. A poor man's Banjo, per se.
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You can't equate Banjo to characters like Game and Watch and K Rool. Nintendo and Sakurai treat third-party characters in Smash as a big deal, they're not going to go out of their way to get a character from a dead series for one of Smash's limited DLC slots. Outside of enthusiast forums like this one, Banjo is super obscure, and Nintendo has no reason to add him when they could get a character from a popular, currently active, series instead.
Suggestion: If they're going to add a Dragon Quest character + music, they should add an LGBTQ+ character to counter Sugiyama's homophobia.
For instance...
Also, there are no women at all rumored in this DLC pack, so please add her Nintendo.
I can't imagine her in Smash without having her be super OP lol. Just blinking around everywhere throwing sticky bombs on people. Would be fun though.
While I actually have thoughts many of these points before, especially 1, 5, and 10, I just can't see it in a minecraft world. In an alternate Earth banjo was one of the first confirmed characters for Brawl as Nintendo would have kept rare in the 00's.
Look, I love Banjo, but none of those reasons are good enough to put him in over Steve or any of the other rumored characters. They want characters that will sell as individual DLC and not just as part of the fighter pass. They won't pick a relic from the N64 era.
So, I wasn't paying much attention, what are the other rumoured characters that go along with this?
That would be cool (and it would most likely mean that Overwatch is coming to the Switch).Suggestion: If they're going to add a Dragon Quest character + music, they should add an LGBTQ+ character to counter Sugiyama's homophobia.
For instance...
Also, there are no women at all rumored in this DLC pack, so please add her Nintendo.
You think they would've been smarter about codenames after Ryu and Roy.
Regardless, hype! DQ3's a real treasure.
Regardless, hype! DQ3's a real treasure.
Is that why they put Bayonetta in 4??? Banjo is more popular than Bayo. Banjo is one of the most requested characters for Smash. Whether he gets in or not is whatever, but lets not play the relevancy card.
Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden, The Marine from Doom, and Steve from Minecraft.
I wonder who we'd think jack was if the roles were reversed and Erdrick had been revealed at TGA.
Not according to the votes :P
Not according to the votes :P
1) An N64 mini has yet to be announced. And even if it does happen, it's fully possible that Rare's games could be omitted from it.
2) You (like many other people) overestimate Banjo's popularity. His games are pretty obscure to most people these days, and there's no shortage of characters with more widespread appeal
3) I don't think representing a specific era of gaming is anything that Nintendo cares about
4) Namco only has one rep at the moment, and Microsoft has zero. Your jumping to conclusions that they might get any at all.
5) Geno and Dixie Kong say hi
6) You have no way of knowing if Nintendo cares about that at all. Xbox sells horribly in Japan anyway.
7 + 8) Fair enough
9) Same for a lot of characters that aren't in the game
10) You literally made that up
How is it disgusting to not want to fund a war crime denying homophobe?
Yeah man! DQ IS IN!
Have to admit, I'd be a bit disappointed it's not DQ, but I'd be more that happy with Edea.
That actually did this with the FF Brave Exvius crossover.
A Mii Brawler costume would be AWESOME (and more likely I think)
Seems people are missing the original rumor that said Erdrick would have FOUR characters in one each with two colors.
Male and Female Erdrick
Ann Lucia (still no official English name) from DQX was also mentioned. It's worth noting in the newly reused art book her listed name is Yuushahime Anrushia (Brave Princess Anlucia)
And of course, DQXI Hero
I'd actually place a pretty good bet that Erdrick's second color is the redesigned Scion of Erdrick(DQ1 Hero). He's close enough in appearance that a recolor would be quick and easy
Seriously...
But you know I really hate? This crap:
You lose all credibility at this point. It's one thing to say you don't want to support anything Sugiyama because of his views. I perfectly respect that. But you fall off your high horse the second you just take cheap jabs at a series and make it about you just disliking the series. Get out with that nonsense!
Actually those were from the SNES remakes from the 90s, probably to coincide with DBZ's popularity.
His recent stuff is more whimsical.
Joke - Dragon Quest Character in Smash with 1 song
Woke - Bravely Default Character with a ton of music from the first game
Have to admit, I'd be a bit disappointed it's not DQ, but I'd be more that happy with Edea.
That actually did this with the FF Brave Exvius crossover.
A Mii Brawler costume would be AWESOME (and more likely I think)
Seems people are missing the original rumor that said Erdrick would have FOUR characters in one each with two colors.
Male and Female Erdrick
Ann Lucia (still no official English name) from DQX was also mentioned. It's worth noting in the newly reused art book her listed name is Yuushahime Anrushia (Brave Princess Anlucia)
And of course, DQXI Hero
I'd actually place a pretty good bet that Erdrick's second color is the redesigned Scion of Erdrick(DQ1 Hero). He's close enough in appearance that a recolor would be quick and easy
Seriously...
But you know I really hate? This crap:
You lose all credibility at this point. It's one thing to say you don't want to support anything Sugiyama because of his views. I perfectly respect that. But you fall off your high horse the second you just take cheap jabs at a series and make it about you just disliking the series. Get out with that nonsense!
Actually those were from the SNES remakes from the 90s, probably to coincide with DBZ's popularity.
His recent stuff is more whimsical.
It made sense to put Bayonetta considering they were funding Bayonetta 2. They're not funding a new Banjo game. Lol
But the argument is they want characters that will sell. We can all pretty much assume Bayo was the least bought DLC seeing how poorly Bayo 2 sold on Wii U. And I would imagine by a large margin compared to Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, and the returning veterans.
They put bayo in because she won the poll*
Are you making a joke or didn't know this?
*most realistic choice that was top
Seems people are missing the original rumor that said Erdrick would have FOUR characters in one each with two colors.
Ann Lucia (still no official English name) from DQX was also mentioned. It's worth noting in the newly reused art book her listed name is Yuushahime Anrushia (Brave Princess Anlucia)
If the rumor is true, including a DQX character as an alt bodes well for a possible Western release!
Should be noted that THE WHOLE POINT of balancing is changing those presets.
We're talking about Ultimate. It's pretty obvious based on Joker and this supposed leak what type of characters they're going for.
...Did you want people to ignore that fact or something? He is a terrible person, I get why you might think it's tiresome but it definitely helps people like me who keep forgetting the guy exists. I have no attachment to DQ, so I have no reason to regularly remember who Sugiyama is on a day-to-day basis. Again, it helps. It's something that I find very important for any of my purchasing decisions.
Edit: Lemme just add that Tracer would be really cool. I don't play OW at all, but I feel like it's big enough to warrant a new character and would definitely garner attraction from the gaming community.
Okay? The argument is Nintendo wants the DLC's to sell a lot. Regardless of who won Bayo is not a character that you include if you are looknig to make money. No way Bayo sold as well as Cloud or Ryu. Not even close. My point is Nintendo isn't just going to include characters because they want to make the max amount of money. Thats why I think Banjo isn't out of the running because he isn't "popular".
I'm not saying people shouldn't like Dragon Quest. I've made it abundantly clear that it's the sole example where I can't bring myself to be all "I'm happy for fans of the series." I made it clear that Sugiyama is a terrible person & I regret buying this Fighter Pass solely knowing he made a fraction of a cent from that decision. I made it clear that it's understandable that someone can be upset about this fact, as Sugiyama doesn't really hide the fact he's a hateful bastard & will spend your money on hate. And I made it clear I don't care for Dragon Quest, don't see the appeal of Dragon Quest, & think Nintendo's foolish for thinking they can try to make the series popular in the West yet again.
But no one's saying you can't like Dragon Quest. I, & others here, are just making it clear why we don't like Dragon Quest, & by extension, the addition of the series to Smash. If you're feeling like people being upset about this is a personal attack, I don't know how to help with that.
I will never not appreciate your dedication to this bit.
"Deserving" doesn't mean jackshit to me. When I say I want a character in Smash, it's because I like the character, & think they'll be fun to play as. Even ignoring the fact that some of my money apparently just went to a homophobic war crime denier, you couldn't pay me to care about a boring swordsperson wandering around the most generic fantasy setting I could imagine.
By this logic, the Microsoft rep we should be arguing over is the deck from Solitaire, & that L-Block would've gotten in before Sonic, let alone Snake. DQ's lack of popularity everywhere else was probably the main reason Sakurai never bothered with the series until he put Nintendo in the driver's seat, anyway. Just because DQ did well in one territory doesn't mean it should be treated like the pinnacle in all territories.
Suggestion: If they're going to add a Dragon Quest character + music, they should add an LGBTQ+ character to counter Sugiyama's homophobia.
For instance...
Also, there are no women at all rumored in this DLC pack, so please add her Nintendo.
I was going to say I'd rather get Crash from Activision, but yeah. Getting 5 dudes (Even if that rumor says that Erdrick & Steve have their female counterparts as alts, you know they're not going to be the main costume) & knowing a homophobe is getting money from this Fighter Pass suddenly makes me want Tracer.
This is so pointlessly individualist and also irrelevant. Why does it even matter if he gets more money? Who cares? He's not a major political donor, he has no power to really change anything- him getting more money, in a material sense, means literally nothing. Americans are kinda obsessed with this because they think that money = happiness or a 'better' life or whatever. But I don't really think that at all, so I don't care how much he does or doesn't accumulate, or think I have any personal responsibility.
I need some sources about him using money to fund LGBT hate campaigns. He funded a war crime denying ad in the Washington Post ten years ago. As I said, he's not a major political donor and he has no real political power. Yeah it's gross but the idea that someone buying a Dragon Quest game is essentially donating money to some huge right wing hate campaigns is so ridiculous. You might wanna check out all the shareholders for all the companies whose products you buy or services you use, cos I bet you will find many people who have donated significantly larger amounts of money to significantly larger campaigns which have actually made things worse for LGBT people. Especially with regards to anti gay marriage campaigns. This shit happens everywhere all the time.
And I'm not seperating the art from the artist, because it's pretty fucking separate already. He's not making autobiographical art where we're asked to empathise with him personally. He's composing pastichey and often mediocre music for a JRPG franchise. It's already removed from the core of the creative process, and his personal political views are obviously even further removed from that.
I am queer and I am fucking sick of being told what I can or can't like because of a combination of random bigots and intense moralistic Americans on social media. I am sick of restrictions being constantly placed on queer people. We can like what we like and not have to make fucking excuses for ourselves all the time. The world is homophobic and is something LGBT people face each day. The vast, vast majority of us have no desire to sacrifice the things we like in life, such as beloved video games, just to piss into the wind, trying to make a point that ultimately no-one is going to care about, about someone who has no significant material impact on anyone's lives.
I can hear worse stuff than Sugiyama's rants said in the pub any day of the week. I don't stop going to the pub because I have every right to be there, just as I have every right to play video games where parts are made by homophobes, or stuff that contains casual homophobia such as Persona 5, or any of the thousands of games and films that are similar.
Fine, you may think consumer boycotts are the way forward, and I think they're pointless. We'll agree to disagree. But don't shame me, or any other queer people, for liking things that you deem problematic. We're absolutely capable of thinking for ourselves, and many, many people have the capacity to acknowledge the problematic elements of something whilst enjoying the majority of it. And whether or not we spend money on it has nothing to do with how dedicated we are to LGBT rights, and to suggest so is incredibly offensive.
Joker will do well and the DQ rep will do fantastic in Japan but probably not well elsewhere. Im just not seeing the logic that Banjo can't happen because he doesn't have relevancy in 2018.
This isn't Smash 4. These picks are coming straight from Nintendo and not a poll or Sakurai. Nintendo is going to do what's best for business and that's clearly not Banjo.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing Concerns on Homophobia
If anything, Nintendo is putting Dragon Quest to reward japanese players.
This is obviously for Japan. Which complains all the time that Smash is picking many characters for westerns instead of what they want. What was the last character for Japan that it wasn't also for the west? It makes total sense.
You can't read? The part which is disgusting is people talking that way about DQ because of this. It's tiring, ridiculous and pathetic. Don't buy the dlc if you don't want to, buy just the other 4. And of course, don't buy the fighter pass.
Glad that Nintendo disagree with it. Not only as a platform holder but as a publisher.
And your motive means jackshit to me and for Nintendo as well. I'm not going to throw a tantrum over this because the piece of shit of Sugiyama is involved because I prefer series with connections with Nintendo and importance for gaming to be on Smash and Dragon Quest totally represents it.
Besides, DQ have more than 70 million, is one of the best selling franchises, have plenty of influence on it's genre, the second biggest of SE and many more great points. It doesn't matter if the majority of it are from Japan. Success is success and this is mostly for japanese players getting a rcharacter after years without one dedicated to them.
A Dragon Quest character still seems to be pretty far from confirmed and seems to be based heavily on speculation. But I admit I also really don't want a Dragon Quest character. The character and potential moveset doesn't seem particularly interesting and I doubt the stage and music would be any better. I also wouldn't want to support Sugiyama who is a wretched horrible human being.
EDIT:
You're glad that Nintendo is potentially supporting a homophobic war crime denier? I think that's a very understandable thing for people to not want.
EDIT:
You're glad that Nintendo is potentially supporting a homophobic war crime denier? I think that's a very understandable thing for people to not want.
Those four do feel like the most likely next Capcom reps. Leon or Dante especially. But Ammy and Joe also feel within the realm of possibility.
The only other "big" (ish) not-more-Street Fighter Capcom rep I could see, especially considering the Nintendo affinity, is Phoenix Wright.
Dude, I'm bi. I'd like to think I have some pony in this race too.
I am choosing not to spend my money on Dragon Quest. I am explaining why. Chill the fuck out.