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(SPOILERS) Games where the final boss isn't the most powerful character in canon (excluding the MC)

ze_

ze_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,929
Sargerus said:
Majora and Demise aren't stronger than Ganon. Hylia went on a stalemate with Demise while the 3 Golden Goddess couldn't defeat Ganon.
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Ganon doesn't exist in either Termina or the land and time before Hyrule. Demise is his precursor. Same with Link's Awakening, actually: as that game takes place within a dream, there is nothing that can be more powerful than the nightmares that Link fights.

Regarding the use of the goddesses to make a power ranking, I cannot remember whether Ganon actually fought the goddesses the way Hylia fought Demise. I may be forgetting something. The Golden Goddesses do temporarily bury Ganondorf under the sea, essentially doing to him what Hylia did to Demise.
 
Septimus Prime

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
In the original River City Ransom, the final boss is just a regular dude--the same ones you've been beating up the whole game.

The GBA remake has him actually be powerful, though, but I think Kunio (your character) is still canonically stronger.

Platy said:
One could argue that Oro or Akuma are canonically stronger than most SF final bossses
I personallly like the canon where Cody is also stupidly OP with his implications from Final Fight, but the oficial canon is that 2 arms Oro would ate Bison and Seth for breakfast
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Yeah, Oro fights with one arm not because he only has one but because he's holding back his other one so everyone else has a chance.
 

braisbr1

Member
Oct 4, 2019
148
Sargerus said:
There are so many, to name a few

Demon Souls
Every World of Warcraft final raid boss
KOTOR 2
Every Elder Scrolls game
Ninja Gaiden games
DMC2/DMC3/DMC4
Mass Effect
Zelda Skyward Sword, Majora's Mask, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Link's Awakening
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What's the one in Majora's Mask? I'd think Majora is the most powerful entity in that game, which is also the final boss.
 
WhiteRabbitEXE

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,573
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Sargerus said:
Majora and Demise aren't stronger than Ganon. Hylia went on a stalemate with Demise while the 3 Golden Goddess couldn't defeat Ganon.
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Ganondorf is an entity brought into existence by Demise himself though, as the living embodiment of his continued will. He's literally the eternal malice of Demise personified. The curse permanently shaped the destiny of Hylia's descendants/reincarnations and the avatars of the Hero as well, and more or less permanently set the rules for the universe. I'd say he either outclasses Ganon, given that Ganon's never been shown capable of any magic anywhere near that level, or that Ganon is effectively just Demise anyway since he exists in his vision for his purposes.
 
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CloudWolf

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,588
thisismadness said:
Witcher 3 (vanilla) - The expac complicates things but I think Ciri's far more powerful than anyone in the base story.
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And The Witcher games even massively upgrade Eredin from the source material.

Eredin isn't anything special in the canonical Witcher lore (games aren't canon), he's literally just an Elf with some fancy armor. Sure, with the help of others he can hop dimensions and he's got some scary stories written about him, but that's about it. He's basically just a henchman, his partner-in-crime is far more evil and powerful than him and for some reason CDPR made him into a good guy in The Witcher 3:
Avallac'h, who is basically a combination between Hitler and a serial rapist

And yes, Ciri is significantly more powerful than anyone else in the Witcher lore.
 
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adit

adit

Member
Oct 29, 2017
941
tonja
the true final boss in bloodborne is easy
moon presence
i beat him on 2nd try

whereas the previous boss before him
Gherman

took me more than 10 times to beat
 
Oinone

Oinone

Member
Oct 12, 2018
4,154
Mtn. Ida right of Troy / But mainly Germany
zero_suit said:
DMC3
Vergil
Vergil challenges and is defeated by Mundus in the post credit scene.
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Sargerus said:
DMC3
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Evil Lucario said:
Devil May Cry 3 kinda counts, yeah.

But from what I remember, Vergil only lost to Mundus because Vergil was battered down from fighting with Dante. Mundus wasn't at full power so if Vergil was at full strength, he would have gotten owned.
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You're right with that, DMC3 doesn't count, imo.
Vergil is exhausted and wounded to no end from all the fights against Dante (just look at both of them being overthrown by Arkham before) and then he even throws himself down the cliff. He was in no state to fight Mundus and the DMC5 prequel novel even states explicitly, that Vergil only lost because of his sorry state. Otherwise Mundus wouldn't have stand a chance.
I would even put on top, Vergil himself didn't expect to beat Mundus at that point. But he had lost everything and had nowhere else to go. He had just attempted suicide earlier by throwing himself down there. So he charges head on. If he would indeed beat Mundus, fine by him. Otherwise he'd just die, what would be fine too. He didn't expect what Mundus did to him instead then.
In general, Vergil might be the most powerful one of them. And if not, they are at least even. One time he wins, one time he loses, one time they are interrupted. Other times he's wounded from fights before. It's a bit hard to tell.
 
Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
Undertale.
In the normal and Pacifist runs, Sans remains unfought. In the No Mercy run, Chara's stronger than him anyway.
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,418
CloudWolf said:
And The Witcher games even massively upgrade Eredin from the source material.

Eredin isn't anything special in the canonical Witcher lore (games aren't canon), he's literally just an Elf with some fancy armor. Sure, with the help of others he can hop dimensions and he's got some scary stories written about him, but that's about it. He's basically just a henchman, his partner-in-crime is far more evil and powerful than him and for some reason CDPR made him into a good guy in The Witcher 3:
Avallac'h, who is basically a combination between Hitler and a serial rapist

And yes, Ciri is significantly more powerful than anyone else in the Witcher lore.
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I never read the books but I thought the twist in The Witcher 3 would be Avalahc'h is the King of the Wild Hunt and Eredin is his alter ego. I was very wrong lol. Eredin was just a bad guy, no secret identity.
 

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Corrupt said:
That Dragon Quest VI video is wild, I've never seen that in any games I've played.
Straight up having the game acknowledge a superboss being stronger than the final boss, and then having them come to the final fight to embarrass the boss is awesome
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Yeah the DQVI video is awesome haha
 
OtakuCoder

OtakuCoder

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Oct 27, 2017
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Trundl_e said:
Is Red considered a superboss?
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Not really. The game's natural progression leads you straight to him.

Dwebble said:
Undertale.
In the normal and Pacifist runs, Sans remains unfought. In the No Mercy run, Chara's stronger than him anyway.
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Well, the implication in No Mercy is that you, the player, are Chara. Putting that aside, Sans is canonically the weakest monster; he has 1HP and all his attacks only do 1HP. The only reason he's a threat is because his looping arms him with the knowledge of how to mess around with the player. In Pacifist he gets OHKO'd by Flowey before the latter transforms.
 
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John Harker

John Harker

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Oct 27, 2017
4,342
Santa Destroy
latest


deep cut, but FAUST from Legend of Dragoon.

not sure why he always stuck in my head, but he was a bitch to find and even harder to take down. Don't think I ever beat him haha.
 

Goldbob

Member
Sep 21, 2020
392
Anti Guys from Paper Mario, you have to fight three of them at once and they have 50 HP and deal 12 damage each, Bowser has 100 HP and does significantly less damage.

Bonetail in Paper Mario TTYD, you have to get through 100 fights without dying just to find it and it's stronger than the final boss.
 
Madao

Madao

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Oct 26, 2017
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i think Xenoblade X counts here.

the Telethia appears as part of the story and is stronger than even the final bosses of this game. you only fight it in a sidequest or as a super late Superboss but it does have canonical presence so i think that makes it count despite no actual canonical fight with it.
 
Faiyaz

Faiyaz

Member
Nov 30, 2017
5,255
Bangladesh
Solarc said:
A funnier example comes from the Dragon Quest series, I've never finished the game myself, but in

If you beat the superboss in the sufficient amount of turns, he grants you one wish. What does the party wish for? Defeat the final boss.

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To this day this remains one of my favourite jRPG moments. So fucking cool and ties so well with the lore in-game. And one of the reasons why I love DQ VI so much and feel that it's so underrated.
 
Nox

Nox

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Dec 23, 2017
2,897
CloudWolf said:
And The Witcher games even massively upgrade Eredin from the source material.

Eredin isn't anything special in the canonical Witcher lore (games aren't canon), he's literally just an Elf with some fancy armor. Sure, with the help of others he can hop dimensions and he's got some scary stories written about him, but that's about it. He's basically just a henchman, his partner-in-crime is far more evil and powerful than him and for some reason CDPR made him into a good guy in The Witcher 3:
Avallac'h, who is basically a combination between Hitler and a serial rapist

And yes, Ciri is significantly more powerful than anyone else in the Witcher lore.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Read the books after playing the games and that was one helluva twist for me
 

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Kingdom Hearts Final Mix has a canon superboss that the game makes explicitly clear is on a whole other playing field compared to both the protagonist and the final boss.
 

Deleted member 86891

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Dwebble said:
Undertale.
In the normal and Pacifist runs, Sans remains unfought. In the No Mercy run, Chara's stronger than him anyway.
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while true from a game mechanics perspective, omega flowey and DEFINITELY asriel are more powerful lore wise in neutral/pacifist. flowey has the power of 6 human souls and asriel has the equivalent of 7, making him essentially a god.
 
chandoog

chandoog

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Oct 27, 2017
20,071
Final Fantasy IX ?

If you count Kuja as the final boss, not the batshit story final boss out of nowhere.
 
Sumio Mondo

Sumio Mondo

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Oct 25, 2017
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Shin Megami Tensei IV - no matter which route you end up in, you only fight inferiors of something far more powerful that shows up in SMTIV: Apocalypse as the final boss (and tbh Masakado in the post game/DLC in SMTIV is also more powerful). That something at the end of Apocalypse is also most likely not even the most powerful being in the series canon either. Stephen is a post game/DLC boss after all.
 
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