I'm saying that it happening is very likely. There's so much buildup to it right now in Shadowbringers that it is not out of the realm of possibility. We know Hydaelyn is incredibly terrifying and so is Zodiark. If we got a plot that we kill both gods I think it would be epic personally. Sure, we've been with Hydaelyn all this time and we think she's mostly helping us but personally I don't believe she is. WoL is incredibly terrifying and death itself like Elidibus said. All I'm saying is that if you guys aren't ready for the Hydaelyn is evil trope coming down the line then you're going to be really disappointed.
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I'm saying that it happening is very likely. There's so much buildup to it right now in Shadowbringers that it is not out of the realm of possibility. We know Hydaelyn is incredibly terrifying and so is Zodiark. If we got a plot that we kill both gods I think it would be epic personally. Sure, we've been with Hydaelyn all this time and we think she's mostly helping us but personally I don't believe she is. WoL is incredibly terrifying and death itself like Elidibus said. All I'm saying is that if you guys aren't ready for the Hydaelyn is evil trope coming down the line then you're going to be really disappointed.
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I just don't see it. If they do it's going to feel incredibly forced "both siding" a conflict. No one has offered any good reason as to why we would fight Hydaelyn
Hydaelyn is at least directly or indirectly involved with the flood of light.
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Huh? How?
Hydaelyn doesn't control all of light. That's why light can be corrupted and even she has to fight against it.
Light in FF14 is just another element. You can have a flood of any element.
Giving ardbert group crystals of light without realizing Ascians plan and not even trying to warn them.
Elidibus considers WoL to be death because of the Ascains that he has killed, while (quite possibly on purpose) missing that point that most of these deaths were in defense of ourselves and other people and that the primary goal of the Ascians was essentially total genocide of all 'fractured' beings to revive the sundered Amaurites.
Hydaelyn has definitely done some shady shit throughout FF14, no doubt, but the story we've learned throughout Shadowbringers has felt very illuminating on the nature of her character and it paints her way more kindly than the game has so far with her past actions (like essentially calling Minfillia to her death).
If she both knew the Ascian's plan and could communicate with them, do you really think they'd have been a threat for as long as they have? We know that Hydaelyn is basically on her last legs and can barely send out an actual message by herself (which is why she called to Minfilia in the first place. Placing the fault of the flood on her instead of the Ascians or Cyella is absurd.
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The signal is always going out. It's not selective. Hydaelyn isn't omniscient.
That doesn't mean it is a good thing, maybe after 5-6 rejoining they should have realized that maybe this plan isn't working so well and change course, instead of doing the same shit for millenia and even almost directly helping a rejoining.
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I think your overestimating her power. She isn't Omnipotent either. Mind you it literally took Minfilla being her thrall for awhile before she could even do anything to stop the Flood of Light.
The Flood didn't help a rejoining, though. It's the same reason why The Void hasn't been rejoined, The Flood would have made the First too charged with light.
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Ardbert group was steered toward a rejoining by the Ascians and Hydaelyn did nothing to prevent either that or the flood.
Also why did they sunder the one who summoned them and not the 3 unsundered? maybe having your hero (us) being all powerful could have a been a better idea
What are you talking about? She literally stopped the flood from encompassing the whole of the First. She did the most she could within her power to stop the Flood.
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And so what do you want her to do..? Tell Ardbert to not do good? Because really the only choice. At which point then she's responsible for anyone whom Ardbert could have saved but didn't.
They made their world a better place. Objectively.
Or what? Make no Warriors of Light and leave the Ascians completely unopposed?
Let's not forget that they've teased an ominous post-Hydaelyn/Zodiark arc Big Bad via the scary noise from within the earth that the Amaurotians heard.
cough
cough
If Zodiark gets put back together (although I don't know how if he's not rejoined, and to be rejoined would mean the First would need to go bye bye), the big scary thing is also put back together.
cough
Lavos
If Zodiark gets put back together (although I don't know how if he's not rejoined, and to be rejoined would mean the First would need to go bye bye), the big scary thing is also put back together.
To add to my last post on primals. This makes Ysayle also an extremely interesting exception among primal summoning iirc. She never tempered anyone and she also retained her free will as far as we can tell. But the nature of her summoning shiva has also been very different to other primals which might hint at certain similarities for the summoning of Hydaelyn.
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It's skeptical for the wrong reasons though.
Also again because of Hydaelyn seemingly not wanting to simply thrall a bunch of people. Her actual reach is quite limited.
Again, the only reason she could actually "physically" go there and stop the flood was because someone was willing to become her thrall and even then it still needed the help of Ardbert's group, it wasn't just Minfillia alone. Honestly it shows a level of restraint of Hydaelyn that is absent in other Primals. Others desire thralls but the only one she has was someone who was actively willing.
I hope they do something with the 12. If Zeno's and NeoKefka can make the people desperate enough to summon them as primals, it would tie back into the Praetorium speech, give the devs a chance to make me care about Eorzea the way I do Norvrandt, and force the scions to confront tempering or slaughter citizens. The WoL slaying "good" primals would allow for lots of moral grey area talk like Shadowbringers.
both will die. Hydaelyn will die helping the play beat zenos who steels Zenodiark's power.
Zenos is gonna eat Zodiark and Hydaelyn is gonna spend herself for you to be able to fight, both die.
I love Zenos, but I think they may be setting up some kind of bait and switch. What's this about the same soul? I don't think that's the case.
In any case, Zenos is sort of stuck in the position of his fathers right now. Puppet emperor being poked in different directions by someone from the time of the Ascians. I think Zenos will be a bit more wily about it though, and try to kill Fan once he serves his purpose or becomes too annoying.
Do you think that will be solved during 6.0 or instead it will be just the ascians and taht will be left to 7.0?
I also feel like Zenos might be a bait as the central villain.
While I agree with others that Zenos might be pretty hard to make compelling like Emet on an emotional level I still think he is a key figure to at least answer some plot threads. Stuff like why Zenos has had dreams of the fall of Amaurot since he was a child and what that means do intrigue me.
I thought it was pretty obvious since Zodiark was first mentioned. I mean you can't only kill one of the gods. You need to kill the other one for balance too.
You would think it's the artifical Echo, but he only got that later in life, so we definitely have yet to find out why he's had those dreams all his life. Makes you wonder how much Amaurotine essence/aether is in Solus' bloodline. Zenos is kinda huge in stature like those from Amaurot(maybe not quite THAT big, but big for a mortal, sundered person). So was Varis.
To add to that Zenos is Garlean so he also had no echo resonance due to not being able to use magic. Which makes him having this connection especially weird.
Fandaniel(or maybe it was Elidibus I don't quite remember) also hinted that him having those dreams was a sign that Emet might have succeeded at something.
Edit: yup it was Fandaniel
For now we don't really know who he is(unless I'm unaware of some info). But all the offices of the Ascian convocation of 13 are references to the scions of light from FF12 with the exception of Elidibus who is a reference to FF tactics. Full list of FF12 scion names.
Loghrif, the Transcendent (In FF14: killed by Ardbert and co)
Mitron, the Chastiser (In FF14: killed by Ardbert and co)
Emet-Selch, Angel of Truth (In FF14: killed by our WoL)
Pashtarot, Knight-Star (In FF14: appeared once in the Ascian ARR post credit scene hasn't come back yet)
Fandaniel, the Protector (In FF14: has possessed Asahi's body)
Halmarut, the Arbiter (In FF14: hasn't appeared yet)
Nabriales, the Majestic (In FF14: killed by our WoL and Moenbrydas sacrifice)
Igeyorhm, the Martyr (In FF14: killed by our WoL)
Deudalaphon, the Benevolent (In FF14: hasn't appeared yet)
Emmerololth, Holy Queen (In FF14: apparently killed during events relating to the Eureka content batch, which I havent done)
Lahabrea, Abyssal Celebrant (In FF14: killed by King Thordan Primal)
Wait, so we still have like.. 4 Ascians to go through? Deudalaphon, Halmarut, Fandaniel, Pashtarot.. Damn. Albeit they are Sundered, not Unsundered.
MSQ this patch didn't really impact me like the 5.0 expansion story did. Kinda fell a bit flat. Nothing terribly interesting happened, in that they closed everything off in the safest way possible (i.e 'Bad' guy is gone... Good guys are back home... Happy days I guess)
I wanted more big picture Zodiark and Hydaelyn stuff. Get rid of them both.
I wanted more big picture Zodiark and Hydaelyn stuff. Get rid of them both.
I think that's exactly what was great with 5.3. Don't rush into the next adventure, just put a conclusion to Shadowbringers with a lot of epic moments and lot of callbacks to even 2.0. Everything was coming together.
Now I'm terrified about the next part where I think it will all go south from there (and I'm really affraid G'raha Tia won't really join us for long...)
I really feel we are towarding something as dark/darker than than the conclusion of 2.x.
I also was impressed they commited to 6.0 being the final adventure of the current overarching story arc.
Maybe. The thing is Gaius had some Ascian masks on him who we don't know who they belonged to. Also some might be just offscreened on other shards with a few lines, like Loghrif and Mitron.
True, and they were red masks, I think he had two? I don't remember how many he carried.
How I see it play out
Zenos triggers end of days to push people to summon Zodiark after been given idea byFandaniel
Zenos thinks he can now kill Zodiark
Fandaniel reveals true motive
A) he left Ascians as he wanted be Eldibus so he will absorb Zodiark to become new Eldibus
B) he is Zodiark and needs power of summoning to reclaim his full strength
bye bye Zenos
Zenos triggers end of days to push people to summon Zodiark after been given idea byFandaniel
Zenos thinks he can now kill Zodiark
Fandaniel reveals true motive
A) he left Ascians as he wanted be Eldibus so he will absorb Zodiark to become new Eldibus
B) he is Zodiark and needs power of summoning to reclaim his full strength
bye bye Zenos
Where is this noise talked about again? Tried to Google and found nothing
She even does the same kick! It didn't split the world, but it did split the party in two, lol.
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He did have 2. So it's possible, Pashtarot, Deudalaphon, and Halmarut are already dead.
It's in the quest The End of a World:
I think they mention it elsewhere too, that's just some text I was able to find with some googling.
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Seeing what you posted, could it be that Azem discovered the Final Day phenomenon first? Since they were a world traveler.
Really good theory about what happened at the end of the patch:
Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
"He's basically a direct analogue to The children's quests that started the patch off. And the fact the Convocation used a child for Zodiark's heart was probably the last straw for us/Azem. It's no wonder we defected.
And it also sheds light on why Elidibus saved Cylva and Unukalhai."
Makes sense with FF XII's description of Zodiark: "Strongest of the scions created by the gods, they feared his growth, and so kept him a child."
And the fact that Emet-Selch wanted to save Elidibus from suffering because he was, in fact, a child.
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I think Zodiark and Hydaelyn stuff should be reserved for the next expac. Shadowbringers was about exposing the true nature of the world and whatever comes next should be about confronting the true nature of it. They deserve something bigger and more impactful since both have been the main driving factors since 1.0. Especially since the x.3 patches are about closing the threads of the main expansion storyline and ramping up the next.
I liked us finally getting a wrap-up that was more or less us winning. No if's, and's or but's. We won, we saved the First. The WoL and Scions likely needed that unequivocal win or else the story itself starts becoming a shitty spiral of cynicism. I'd go so far as to say that a happy ending is the least safe thing they could do since it signals that we shouldn't expect the stuff we dealt with to come back in any major form.
I wouldn't be surprised if Azem was the one that discovered the phenomenon and wound up bringing word of it back, thus indirectly causing the Final Days to start. It sounds like the first person who discovered it would have been irrevocably changed by hearing the Sound and subsequently influence everyone around them.
Heck, Azem being a traveler makes all the Azim/Azeyma thing make sense too. The non-Amaurotine cultures were likely in their proto states at that point and an Amaurotine traveling the world would have been able to lend their aid to these cultures as they were beginning to take shape.
And re: the Elidibus being a child bit. Yeah, it kinda fucked me up that they wound up using a child for the summoning of Zodiark. It makes me question what they used as the heart of Hydaelyn though, as her response to Zodiark was fairly childish and simplistic too. Did they use someone as her heart, or is she effectively heartless and is little more than an automaton (like most of the other Primals we've seen) that carries out her singular duty without stopping? The fact that she's always broadcasting, "Hear, think, feel," in an effort to snatch up anyone makes me feel like she's not wholly sentient.
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Venat was used as the heart of Hydaelyn and in the scenes we've seen their shade they were like other adult Amaurotians.
Seeing what you posted, could it be that Azem discovered the Final Day phenomenon first? Since they were a world traveler.
Really good theory about what happened at the end of the patch:
Reddit - Dive into anything
"He's basically a direct analogue to The children's quests that started the patch off. And the fact the Convocation used a child for Zodiark's heart was probably the last straw for us/Azem. It's no wonder we defected.
And it also sheds light on why Elidibus saved Cylva and Unukalhai."
Makes sense with FF XII's description of Zodiark: "Strongest of the scions created by the gods, they feared his growth, and so kept him a child."
And the fact that Emet-Selch wanted to save Elidibus from suffering because he was, in fact, a child.
Hngh. I know why I felt bad about that whole thing. God crazy how things worked out in the end.
Oh right.
...Wait that's bad. Oops Hydaelyn's gotta go. If they want to continue with the comparisons to the FFXII characters...
Hydaelyn's endgame is to "free" the various Spoken races by creating a world in which free will reigns supreme. This is accomplished by bestowing a ton of power unto a singular mortal and hoping they go along with that plan.