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Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,846
It's incredible how we got all the much needed development from the scions. Thancred finally taking part since Heavensward and coming to terms with his love of Minfilia. Urianger dealing with his decision of sending Minfilia to the First.

Then we finally got rid of the Ascian's tiring veil of secrecy with Emet Selch just barging in and telling us all his secrets, on top of that we get to know all about how the Source used to be with Amaurot. God knows how tiring that was, but I dare say the payoff was worth it.

I feel like Shadowbringers tackled everything that needed to be tackled for the story to come on its own.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,881
Going back and watching the 3.x storylines right now that's a precursor to this expansion. Kinda easy to forget how much of an asshole Ardbert and his crew were. I mean the bard nearly killed Alisaie
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,846
screenshot_2019-07-079tjlq.png
 

Oleander

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,587
I hope the empire business is done quickly, make Gaius the emperor so we don't have to deal with them anymore, never was a fan of them, give me more Ascians or something new.

With that said, we have no clue what the next expansion will be about, the majority of threats introduced since the beginning of the game are already dealt with or we are about to.

Considering Ilsabard is the last of the Three Great Continents we haven't been to, I would have to hazard that we'll be spending most of the next two years gearing up for a Garlemald expansion, certainly heading deep into the provinces.

That's what it appears to be, anyway. I'm pleasantly surprised how much the direction of the story defies expectations -- I don't think anyone could have predicted we would be going to The First until 4.4. I personally want to go to Sharlayan and Thavnair so bad...
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603


I know everyone loves The Twinning music but honestly I think the Amaurot dungeon has the best music. It just hits you on an emotional level. The way it works with the visuals. The way the music really sells how this world is ending.
 

Oswen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
806
Considering Ilsabard is the last of the Three Great Continents we haven't been to, I would have to hazard that we'll be spending most of the next two years gearing up for a Garlemald expansion, certainly heading deep into the provinces.

That's what it appears to be, anyway. I'm pleasantly surprised how much the direction of the story defies expectations -- I don't think anyone could have predicted we would be going to The First until 4.4. I personally want to go to Sharlayan and Thavnair so bad...

I really wonder when/if we'll ever get to Thavnair, Sharlayan and Hingashi at this point.
I don't really see them baking those in a Garlemald expansion but I also don't see them becoming an expansion on their own either unless they go for a "many islands" theme and possibly add Meracydia aswell.

I just hope they wont end up as dungeons or Eureka-like zones.
 

Zellia

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
UK


I know everyone loves The Twinning music but honestly I think the Amaurot dungeon has the best music. It just hits you on an emotional level. The way it works with the visuals. The way the music really sells how this world is ending.

Everything about Amaurot is amazing. It's peak dungeon storytelling and shows how far they've come since the Praetorium and its eleventy bajillion expo dump cutscenes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,763
Finished the main story last night. Got hyped when my Warrior of Darkness touched the axe and the music kicked in. Outstanding work all around by the FF14 team, and one of the best things with the Final Fantasy name attached to it ever. As whole (well from 2.0 to now) Shadowbringers has edged FF14 into being my favorite mainline FF. I still Tactics is the best overall, but the gap is narrowing.
 

Zellia

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
UK
With the revelations about the true nature of Ascians and the sundering of the world, I have to wonder now if all those who have the Echo are fragmented Ascian souls. Well, except Resonants obviously.

Apparently in the 1.0 story it's mentioned that those who awaken to the Echo have visions of meteors falling from a burning sky. Could it be that they're actually remembering the end of Amaurot, or something that came between that and the world being split?
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,846
I wonder if it explains why WoL is proficient with everything he touches especially in terms of magic-wielding. Could he even dabble in the magic of creation? That would open up job potential.

Also considering the screeching the Amaurot heard that brought about the calamity, I've been wondering if that doesn't mean the planet itself has a self-defense mechanism that was set to wipe out mankind. Maybe the power of creation was drawign from the planet's life force itself and it fought back.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,881
Lol I'm watching No1Alex stream and he's just finished the Innocence fight and when he got to the G'hria Tia reveal he said he thought the Exarch was a grown Alphinaud from the future. LOL that's an interesting guess.
 

Luigi87

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,102
Going back and watching the 3.x storylines right now that's a precursor to this expansion. Kinda easy to forget how much of an asshole Ardbert and his crew were. I mean the bard nearly killed Alisaie
Their interpretation of Warriors of Darkness was certainly different than the Scions' interpretation.


Also I'm curious if any of the Scions (mainly Thancred and Y'shtola) will elect to instead stay in the FIrst instead of returning to the Source, largely since Thancred has Ryne to care of, and Y'shtola seems rather attached to the Blessed.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,881
Also I'm curious if any of the Scions (mainly Thancred and Y'shtola) will elect to instead stay in the FIrst instead of returning to the Source, largely since Thancred has Ryne to care of, and Y'shtola seems rather attached to the Blessed.
It would be pretty weird with there bodies just chillin in back in the Rising Stones or where ever their bodies are being held.

I mean yeah maybe they'll find a way to travel back with there bodies.
 

Moara

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,827
Their interpretation of Warriors of Darkness was certainly different than the Scions' interpretation.


Also I'm curious if any of the Scions (mainly Thancred and Y'shtola) will elect to instead stay in the FIrst instead of returning to the Source, largely since Thancred has Ryne to care of, and Y'shtola seems rather attached to the Blessed.

I imagine Ryne will will just come back with us to the Source. It's not like she has any other attachments to the First besides us. Once all the sin eaters and the Eden stuff are taken care of, she can come be a Scion.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
6.0: Warriors of Light and Dark
  • Final showdown with Elidibus to decide the fate of the Ascian peoples, non-zero chance that he throws in the towel with a combination of hopelessness, humans acquitting themselves well, and the mechanisms of calamity drying up (crystals, faith, and isolated pockets of neutral tribes)
  • Radz-at-han becomes a major forward operating city for the alliance after Thavnair abandons neutrality in the face of a disintegrating Garlean empire that can no longer police its extremities, resulting in a spike of pirate activity. The alliance commits its naval and land forces in exchange for cooperation and establishes a beachhead onto Ilsabard to support uprisings in Dalmasca and elsewhere.
  • Major Cities: Radz-at-han, Garlean capital
  • Major zones: Thavnair (fantasy Arabia with a lot of coastlines, reed deltas, and scrub deserts), Nagxia (I reckon a fantasy Khmer kind of kingdom, with jungles, raging rivers, and soaring mountains), Garlemald (alpine valleys, tundra, and glaciers)... in all likelihood I'm underestimating how many brand new locations will be introduced into the mix.

I still have to wonder what exactly happened.

Like did reality begin to break down due to their magic or was there some other ethereal force that caused it to happen?
Unclear if that was the ultimate cause, but "hell" vomiting forth legions of nigh unstoppable horrors was certainly a direct consequence of creation magic suffering from interrupted focus. Was the noise something else? Or was it one of their own people stumbling upon the mental atom bomb that unraveled their world in a cascading failure of compromised creation?

A Succession arc could be interesting.

Like there would no doubt be someone aiming for the throne who wants peace with the Eorzean Alliance and those that want the war to continue.
I would love some War of the Roses intrigue and civil war, with the Eozean/Doma alliance playing the part of a sizable but outgunned intervention force trying to help the provinces (Dalmasca, etc) throw off the imperial yoke.

Not for Tank at least.


I see what you mean


Another question: what did the Exarch do by summoning the pillars of light in the final fight? Did it summon a call for adventurers or something more grand in nature? Are they from other timelines or shards?

edit: huh, the duty finder says this. 7 heroes from stars that aren't even related to the source

fhjgjmskr3.png
Call me crazy, but I got the impression that they were all reflections of us too.

Yup. Originally Ascians were just tall bois and girls who made whatever they wanted out of thin air and had a grand old time and then something happened which eventually caused their downfall. Could've been an actual thing, could've been they were actually draining their planet and not just using their own aether could be one of them somewhere got spooked and made a monster and it was a chain reaction of mass hysteria affecting the creations of everyone.

But yeah, things went south and the council decided to use their power of creation (summoning) to give the planet a will of its own (Zodiark) so it could fight back and fix the problem. They sacrificed half their people (willing volunteers) to make Zodiark and likely, after doing so became tempered and so the remaining who weren't tempered decided to summon their own being (Hydaelyn) to try and fix things but instead it ended up sundering the world.

And the Ascians that survived and were left whole just want to rejoin the shards, call back Zodiark and try and undo everything and bring everyone back. And it seems that the WoL was the 14th member of the council and knew Emet-Selch and the other Ascians but doesn't remember as they were sundered and would need to be made whole to remember but currently we are 8 times rejoined (7 happened with previous rejoinings, 8th with Ardbert). It explains why we are so godly, because we are (part of) a complete Ascian.
I wonder how many reflections of us are still out there waiting to be met... I don't recall offhand how many shards remain extant other than the 13th being essentially to stable darkness.

Their interpretation of Warriors of Darkness was certainly different than the Scions' interpretation.


Also I'm curious if any of the Scions (mainly Thancred and Y'shtola) will elect to instead stay in the FIrst instead of returning to the Source, largely since Thancred has Ryne to care of, and Y'shtola seems rather attached to the Blessed.
I'm still pulling for a "soft rejoining" of the shard to the Source. Nothing to cause a calamity, but enough to establish a channel wider than the Exarch's portal and to facilitate the gradual meeting of worlds.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,846
Coming back to the Source will feel like petty conflicts when all of the First joined hands to save their world
 

Deleted member 2474

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,318
For real. I was also shocked at how less racist the First was almost as soon as I made it over there...

I guess when the world's ending and there's only so many people left you can't really afford to be an asshole about your allies.

Unless you're rich as shit living it up in Eulmore, of course
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
They should have made the Crystal Tower raid mandatory, I've seen a lot of people when they see the Exarch's face for the first time saying "oh he's a cat boy" I'm like wtf..
 

Zellia

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
UK
They should have made the Crystal Tower raid mandatory, I've seen a lot of people when they see the Exarch's face for the first time saying "oh he's a cat boy" I'm like wtf..
I feel like people who didn't do it miss out on some great moments - when you call his name and he starts crying (I assume you don't get that option if you haven't done the raid). And the wasted significance of him talking obliquely about how he wants nothing more than to go adventuring with you.

I mean it was fairly obvious who the Exarch was and I twigged as soon as you ask about G'raha Tia and he's like 'hmm what a mystery let's change the subject', for all that they still handled the reveal well.
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
So maybe I'm blind but does G'raha Tia (at least until the end) use a Hyur body with a Miqo'te head?

Or does he actually have a unique Miqo'te body without a tail?
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,624
Lol I'm watching No1Alex stream and he's just finished the Innocence fight and when he got to the G'hria Tia reveal he said he thought the Exarch was a grown Alphinaud from the future. LOL that's an interesting guess.

I started thinking that it might have been an older Alphinaud around the stuff in Kholusia and his admiration was more obvious. I only started entertaining the idea because at that point, I expected the reveal might be more than just G'raha Tia since they were holding it for so long. With that dialogue option tease at the start, I thought they might do a swerve.
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
So I wanted to do a little write up to really dig into why Emet is such a good villain.

First of all, yes, he is evil. In the end he's willing to sacrifice and dehumanize others to accomplish his goals.

Yet at the same time the reason he can be seen as almost sympathetic is because ultimately his goal of getting back those who were lost is something people can relate to. That grief isn't unknown. I know it's cliche but this really a case of: "Your not so different you and I" both the hero and the villain want to do nothing more than save those that they hold dear.

He was both determined yet also conflicted. While they may have, as far as we know neither Elidibus or Lahabrea ever attempted to see if the world was worth keeping as it is. Emet just wanted it to be over with, but he couldn't go against Zodiark's will because that would mean giving up on those who lives were sacrificed to save the world.

There is the saying that no one is truly dead until no one remembers them. The fear that everyone will forget about the sacrifice that potentially millions/billions (we obviously have no idea how many ancients there were) would just be forgotten is too much for him to bear. An entire civilization of people who lived and died, who love and loved, forgotten, not even a hair of a memory. It's why in his very last moments he didn't curse the world, he didn't lash out. He simply pleaded, pleaded that we would not forget what everyone has forgotten.
 

Firebrand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,709
Just beat the game. What a ride, I never watched the launch trailer so the story took some turns I didn't expect. Might type up something better later, but for now I just wanted to say I wish they had left Zenos dead in SB. He's fun to listen to but to go from Emet you can empathize with back to "I like murder" is a serious step backwards.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,015
So I wanted to do a little write up to really dig into why Emet is such a good villain.

First of all, yes, he is evil. In the end he's willing to sacrifice and dehumanize others to accomplish his goals.

Can you really call him evil, though? He readily admitted that he was tempered by Zodiark when they summoned it. He isn't really acting according to his own will. He was tempered by Zodiark and doing whatever it takes to bring it and his people back, just like the Warrior of Light is tempered by Hydaelyn.
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
Can you really call him evil, though? He readily admitted that he was tempered by Zodiark when they summoned it. He isn't really acting according to his own will. He was tempered by Zodiark and doing whatever it takes to bring it and his people back, just like the Warrior of Light is tempered by Hydaelyn.

I mean I can only imagine that his obeying of Zodiark is only to a point. He still wants to bring the worlds back to one by his own admission. He knows it will result in the deaths of countless.

So I'd still say he is evil. Zodiark or no.
 

Avis

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,220
Assuming they keep with usual progression, I wonder what the MSQ boss of 5.3 will be. Unlike HW and SB, this one wrapped up pretty well in the base expansion. Yes, the problem of how to get the Scions back to the Source remains, but there doesn't seem to be a remaining threat until we get back to the war against the empire.

I wonder if we'll confront Elidibus before the next expansion.
Been thinking about this too.

If I had to take a wild guess as to who it is, it would be either

A) Ardbert, or in general wrapping up the plotline regarding all the light we took in. I know it's said us fusing with Ardbert solved it, but I could see them bringing it back to tug on our heartstrings. Also could relate to what Elidibus mentioned.

B) Zenos, he's a decent villain but getting stale and I don't think he can carry an entire next expansion as the main villain. Wrapping up our rivalry in a patch feels about right.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
Been thinking about this too.

If I had to take a wild guess as to who it is, it would be either

A) Ardbert, or in general wrapping up the plotline regarding all the light we took in. I know it's said us fusing with Ardbert solved it, but I could see them bringing it back to tug on our heartstrings. Also could relate to what Elidibus mentioned.

B) Zenos, he's a decent villain but getting stale and I don't think he can carry an entire next expansion as the main villain. Wrapping up our rivalry in a patch feels about right.
who said zenos is gonna be the main villain of anything, who says we are gonna even see him
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
who said zenos is gonna be the main villain of anything, who says we are gonna even see him

I'm honestly not sure if Zenos will work again as a main villain.

Other than his almost erotic feelings towards fighting he doesn't have much else going for him.

Like other than pulling a: "Oh look how sad Zenos' childhood was", I'm not sure what they could actually do to try and give him more depth and by extension more interesting.

I guess it is at least interesting how much of a wild card he is. Like even the Ascians will be fearing him cause they can't reason with him.
 

Avis

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,220
who said zenos is gonna be the main villain of anything, who says we are gonna even see him
I mean, the ending scene in Garlemald felt like it was setting him back up as a major player in the story. It's pretty obvious we're gonna have to take him out again, it's more a question of when.
 

SliceSabre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,556
So if I'm understanding the fall Amaurot and their world is that is was a combination of two factors. The disaster in and of itself i.e. every single possible natural/magical disaster happening at once PLUS their natural creation abilities going haywire and creating horrific monsters literally from their dread, despair and nightmares of the situation who also slaughtered them...?
 

looprider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
943
Can someone explain Ghar tia's timeline? So he traveled back in time to ARR 2.x to find the CT in order to use its power to get to the first and bring the WoL over?
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,846
I'm honestly not sure if Zenos will work again as a main villain.

Other than his almost erotic feelings towards fighting he doesn't have much else going for him.

Like other than pulling a: "Oh look how sad Zenos' childhood was", I'm not sure what they could actually do to try and give him more depth and by extension more interesting.

I guess it is at least interesting how much of a wild card he is. Like even the Ascians will be fearing him cause they can't reason with him.
He has the resonance. Shit can hit the fan pretty quick with a man-made power that doesn't have the same rules as the echo
 

Lonestar

Roll Tahd, Pawl
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,556
From memory, Graha'Tia was around and alive for 2.0-2.5, eventually finding out he's the last ancestor of the allagans, and as such, has some ability of control on the Crystal Tower. To keep it out of the hands of anyone who wouldn't know what they were doing (or would use it for "evil"), he sealed it up, with himself in it, and put himself to sleep, until the people of the world reached a similar level of technology as the allagans. So he's just asleep until some point in the future.

At some point, the 8th Calamity happens, most everyone including the WoL dies, and Cid/Ironworks sets about with plans to undo/fix things. They are lead back to the Crystal Tower, find a way to break in, and awaken and meet Graha'Tia. Over the next few hundred years they find a way to move the CT to the First to stop that issue. Only he has the ability to partially join with the CT, to survive the journey across (hence the crystal arm). He ends up too far back in the pass, but on the First. He is only able to "communicate" with his "past" on The Source, with The Scions, I do not believe he has actually time travelled on the Source).

Basically, the CT in the First is the one from The Source, but 200-300 years in the future.
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
Can someone explain Ghar tia's timeline? So he traveled back in time to ARR 2.x to find the CT in order to use its power to get to the first and bring the WoL over?

The Crystal Tower you see in the First is from a Future Timeline of the Source where the 8th Umbral Calamity already happened. Cid, having survived it, began to plan for a way to go back in time to prevent this from happening, however he was never able to complete it and generations after had to follow through.

Those generations of people got into the Crystal Tower and awoke G'raha Tia (who had been "sleeping" as it's caretaker) and began to work on the tower. At which point the eventually got it up and running but not before finding out when exactly the Umbral Calamity was to happen and why.

So they used technology from Alexander and Omega to modify the tower and then G'raha went with the tower into the past but also to the First. However their aim was off and they got their further in the past then they intended (hence why he looks like he's half crystal, he needed to become "one" with the tower to be able to stay alive through many years without going to sleep), though this ultimately worked in their favor as it would take him decades to figure out how to bring the WoL to the First.
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
Crystal Tower raid should be mandatory and part of the MSQ at this point

Yup.

Though interesting enough from what I've heard if you didn't play it you don't get the options to say G'raha Tia's name.

Also did he become one with the tower to extend his lifespan or to survive the trip to the First and through time?
 

Lonestar

Roll Tahd, Pawl
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,556
Yup.

Though interesting enough from what I've heard if you didn't play it you don't get the options to say G'raha Tia's name.

Also did he become one with the tower to extend his lifespan or to survive the trip to the First and through time?
I understood it to be mostly the latter. Think that was in one of the data logs from The Twinning. Something like "You're the only one who can make the journey across and live"
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
I understood it to be mostly the latter. Think that was in one of the data logs from The Twinning. Something like "You're the only one who can make the journey across and live"

While not 100% accurate (it's a Fan Wiki after all) but the FF wiki says he did do it to prolong his life as the keeper.

I feel like he talked about it at one point so I'm trying to find the cutscene. (I think it might have been that scene on the cliff outside of Eulmore.)

Honestly it really might a case of a "both" situation.
 

Avis

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,220
Yup.

Though interesting enough from what I've heard if you didn't play it you don't get the options to say G'raha Tia's name.
Yep you don't. My dumb ass didn't do the Crystal Tower stuff and I had no idea who he was.

You also get a line of dialogue from him like "He has yet to meet me on his world" and I assumed it was a River Song situation until someone told me otherwise.
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,603
So I found a person who streamed it and went to the cutscene. Yeah when he's talking about figuring out what to do, he realized he wouldn't live long enough to see it. So he became one with the tower so he could work through the decades.
 

Lonestar

Roll Tahd, Pawl
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,556
It definitely can fall into both, because while just an ancestor of the allagans, it was explained like it wasn't even like any normal ancestry, but something like "powers given to another person."

I don't think Miqo'te are known to live for 300-500 years, like I think the Exart might be. 100+ on The first, and unknown amount of Awake time on The Source (couple hundred years of sleep at least). So something must have given him the ability to stay alive that long of a time (and still look relatively the same age as when he went to sleep)
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,846
Yup.

Though interesting enough from what I've heard if you didn't play it you don't get the options to say G'raha Tia's name.

Also did he become one with the tower to extend his lifespan or to survive the trip to the First and through time?
The Exarch did say that he realized his body wouldn't be enough to see his plan to the end during the MSQ. I think it was in end-game Kholusia when he collapsed from exhaustion