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Slick Butter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,500
I really don't wanna make a generalization, but between this and the guy that got banned from GDQ...is there something particularly toxic about the Doom speedrunning community?

EDIT:

Ah, okay. Should've clicked the video to confirm what game he was playing, but I really didn't want to see the content described...
Well, even though this guy in particular isn't a doom runner, I have noticed there's a more outwardly rightwing and often racist or otherwise shitty part of the Doom and greater arena shooter community, even moreso than in many other gaming communities. In pretty recent times I have noticed many more progressive views shining through those same groups, fortunately. Still, kind of sucks, especially since I've seen a couple of arena shooter fans that are openly neo-nazis over the years, or at the very least idolize nazis.
I have been totally relieved to see some more progressive users on Doomworld than there used to be, however.

Obviously, this is all totally anecdotal, but it's what I've picked up lurking these communities for years

BigJeffery's comment about them mostly being "chill old boomers" is pretty accurate though lol
 

Deleted member 5334

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,815
Honestly, after viewing his streams from time to time, this... sadly didn't come off as a complete shock. I mostly tuned into his Final Fantasy VII runs, which were relatively... okayish, but his chat would sometimes go places that really bugged me.

As for Carci, a bit shocked about that. Given he's always been aiming to keep his chat as safe place for people to come into as possible over the years. Even banning people who tended to cross the line. I can't view the video since it's just not loading for me, but I'll take people's word for it in here.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Good riddance.
Well, even though this guy in particular isn't a doom runner, I have noticed there's a more outwardly rightwing and often racist or otherwise shitty part of the Doom and greater arena shooter community, even moreso than in many other gaming communities. In pretty recent times I have noticed many more progressive views shining through those same groups, fortunately. Still, kind of sucks, especially since I've seen a couple of arena shooter fans that are openly neo-nazis over the years, or at the very least idolize nazis.
I have been totally relieved to see some more progressive users on Doomworld than there used to be, however.

Obviously, this is all totally anecdotal, but it's what I've picked up lurking these communities for years

BigJeffery's comment about them mostly being "chill old boomers" is pretty accurate though lol
I noticed this too. It does seem like something that would appeal to the alt right. All the guns, ultra machismo protagonist, the blood and gore. That seems like the perfect alt right fantasy.

A shame. I really love Doom (my favourite FPS series ever) and it sucks to see it being related to these guys.

Saying that, most of the community are pretty great but as expected there is a small part of the huge community that are really shitty.
 
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Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,747
Unfortunately I'm not surprised at this. He's a skilled MMX and FF7 speedrunner and I've seen his stream a bunch and some of the things he said have been questionable but this is yikes.

Also, he doesn't speedrun Doom, it's just his desktop background.
 

Molten_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,546
Kinda sad to see somebody I respected is actually a racist, but this is the speedrunning community where this kinda thing is (Unfortunately) not all uncommon. Reminder that Werster did this at GDQ before it got big:

 
Oct 25, 2017
2,947

tk758Ejwu00e1uvS6D9CuYe0Fl4=.gif
 
Nov 4, 2017
11
Man, is it ever frustrating to see people bitch about PC correctness when they said or did some obvious stupid shit, instead of taking the hint and actually learning something.
 

Deleted member 274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
I remember hearing the guy using an homophobic slur in the past, on stream, so not that shocked I guess
 

Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
Damn it Caleb :/ Sad part is that its not all that surprising given his past behaviour, but damn man, how hard is it to not be a scumbag.
 

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
This is the guy that used to stream topless until Twitch banned that isn't he? Yeah, he's a complete asshole and I've always wondered how he managed to end up being seen as one of the big pillars of the speedrunning community. This is long overdue, Twitch has a serious toxicity problem that has been allowed to fester over the years because the company refused to ever take action on streamers that encouraged racist and bigoted behaviour from viewers.
 

Haelsly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
435
I'm still new to twitch (I started a thread about how to get started like two weeks ago on here) but why is it perfectly ok for the chats to be filled with racists and other vile behavior but the streamer can't do that? My gf's chat is constantly filled with horrible vile shit, and we ban those commenters from her stream but it doesn't seem like it makes much of a difference, the whole community seems toxic as fuck. Is there any kind of limit on number of bans people can get from twitch channels before they are removed from the platform entirely? Does banning someone from our stream lead to any kind of check from twitch staff as to why? Seems utterly pointless.
Other people have already replied with good pointers (having a chat bot/moderators to keep an eye on the chat), but I've seen some streamers employ a feature where you have to be following the channel, or been following it for a certain length of time, before you're allowed to chat. (And if you're a big enough streamer to have subscribers, you can turn on sub only mode). Depending on how long you set the follow time you might risk turning potential new viewers off? But you'll also be dissuading trolls, or at least putting one more roadblock in their way.
 
OP
OP

BigJeffery

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,338
you missed the point

youre trying to frame the event as if it needs wider discussion and there really isn't much else to be said. You extrapolating about the other streamer isn't even relevant, that person didn't post anything to cause the infraction.

No need to be all defensive because I called your angling corny

Well, I DID specifically say that there isn't a lot more to be said about Caleb's case and instead thought it would be interesting to discuss how far culpability for stuff like this should go on Twitch. The several page discussion topic it spawned would suggest people agree with me.

Again, it's pretty clear you just came into this thread looking for a fight, didn't read the OP, barely read any of the replies, and instead just decided to roll with some completely insane narrative you cooked up where i'm secretly running a psyop to engender feelings of outrage for Caleb getting banned. Better luck next time!

re-reading the OP it's worded like those fake concern news clips they play before commercials or promoting the late news

Please point to one value judgement I make in the OP about anything other than when I specifically state that Caleb absolutely should have been banned for being a racist.
 
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Blindy

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,929
Calebhart was the face of Mega Man X speed runs and the top runs of the game often included him if I recall.

He is somewhat confident cocky which isn't typical of a speed runner due to him being fit/buff which didn't hurt his rise but he was one of the bigger long time speedrun personalities. I think Twitch took a stand against him being shirtless during speed runs at one point which may have somewhat contributed to the show no skin mentality.

Shocked he slipped up like this though. I don't know if he is racist per say but Twitch did what it had to.

Edit: Oh nevermind read later posts yeah he has a history of this that I wasn't aware of.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,522
Calebhart was the face of Mega Man X speed runs and the top runs of the game often included him if I recall.

He is somewhat confident cocky which isn't typical of a speed runner due to him being fit/buff which didn't hurt his rise but he was one of the bigger long time speedrun personalities. I think Twitch took a stand against him being shirtless during speed runs at one point which may have somewhat contributed to the show no skin mentality.

Shocked he slipped up like this though. I don't know if he is racist per say but Twitch did what it had to.
He's racist, full stop.
 

Blindy

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,929
Yet, people like DSP still make money begging daily on Twitch. Glad this dude got taken down though.
Phil has also threatened to beat up a girl and said a gay slur in the past, I think he said he has someone high up on Twitch watching out for him and is a fan of his.

Think he is somewhat untouchable I guess.
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
I've been kind of afraid of this dude ever since somebody linked me to a "rage compilation" video where he outright breaks controllers and apparently keeps spares next to his desk just for such an occasion

Combined with how bulked up he is, getting so angry where you're, like, throwing chairs?

That's scary. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a guy who snaps like that.
 

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
Phil has also threatened to beat up a girl and said a gay slur in the past, I think he said he has someone high up on Twitch watching out for him and is a fan of his.

Think he is somewhat untouchable I guess.
He has too tbh. He has been temporarily banned for the girl incident, but he bitches and complains which got it reduced to like 3 days. Last year he called YouTubers the F word and nothing was done there. People, (including myself) have reported him multiple times for things he says or does, but nothing gets done. Until Twitch gets rid of people like Dark, I will always see it as a toxic company.

Edit: for reference (nsfw language)

 
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Branaghs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
355
I am sorry if this has been covered, but I know he is friends with BIGJON and Trihex. Have they mentioned anything about this?
 

SCB360

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,639
Yet, people like DSP still make money begging daily on Twitch. Glad this dude got taken down though.

I'll give him credit, he's not stupid enough to racist and has cleaned up his language over the years to at least avoid a ban

Edit: and twitch seems to ignore the reports anyway, I'm sure he gets dozens per day and Twitch probably ignores them as spam these days
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,277
Well, I DID specifically say that there isn't a lot more to be said about Caleb's case and instead thought it would be interesting to discuss how far culpability for stuff like this should go on Twitch. The several page discussion topic it spawned would suggest people agree with me.

Again, it's pretty clear you just came into this thread looking for a fight, didn't read the OP, barely read any of the replies, and instead just decided to roll with some completely insane narrative you cooked up where i'm secretly running a psyop to engender feelings of outrage for Caleb getting banned. Better luck next time!



Please point to one value judgement I make in the OP about anything other than when I specifically state that Caleb absolutely should have been banned for being a racist.

You so damn paranoid. Pick a fight? No. I just don't have any tolerance for racist behavior. Forgive me for not caring enough to give it more thought that you wanted
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
Was not surprised to read this news. Not because CalebHart is kind of well-known around those parts for being *that* kind of person, but because there very much is a larger problem, I think, with the speedrunning community in general. It's really, really easy to write it off as a "gamer" culture thing, and lets be real, there is a ton of overlap there so it's fucking insanely hard to parse out the difference, but there actually is an aspect of the speedrunning culture on its own that has harbored and defended people like CalebHart.

You can actually see in real time the growing pains of the better parts of that community to grow *out* of that shit. You see it during the larger GDQ shows, where now we're starting to acknowledge the blatant transphobia that has been a staple of that community since some higher profile streamers came out as trans (it ruined their career on Twitch, by the way). But look, as awful as that shit is, it's a smaller piece of the puzzle. The speedrunning community has long held people like Jordan Peterson in hugely high regard, and spend some time looking up the various threads on that guy in Off-Topic (or, anywhere, really), and you're bound to see why that becomes an epidemic in those communities.

Speedrunners haven't really been under the lens much because a lot of them are... well, fine. Normal, even. They play games, and play them fast, and they don't spend all that much time being overtly political or making commentary, but when they do they show their ass a *lot*. I gotta hand it to the people organizing the GDQ events every year; that shit must be hard with so much rotten shit in that community popping up now on a very frequent basis. Twitch has yet to, imo, take a strong stance on the curation of the platform.

Handing out 30 day bans for the N-word on Twitch isn't good enough, never has been, and never will be. Being a popular Fortnite streamer needs to stop being a shield.

So how do a lot of these guys, sub 400 viewers in a lot of cases, but in some extreme cases 3000-4000+ viewers, make it out so fucking frequently? They are really, really good at hiding it in their Discord channels or elsewhere where this stuff is fucking blatant, then they spent a shitton of time dog whistling in their chats. They think they're super smart, but the people who know what to look for are seeing it every day and, frankly, it's disturbing that it is as widespread as it is.
 

andymoogle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,306
I'm disappointed that Carci didn't seem to react, and he hasn't said anything on Twitter. I guess he might have said something on his stream, but I doubt it. He's probably going to be backing his friend.

At least Twitch banned Caleb. Streamers often get away with too much, even on Twitch. Someone like uhTrance gets to stream all day long, despite constant use of "gay" and gladly showing off an extremely toxic Youtube chat on stream. Then there is the open transphobic garbage some streamers keep doing.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,632
Canada
Honestly I don't think Carci has done anything wrong... should he have said something? Sure, absolutely. However drawing attention to it like that is pretty against what he does in his own stream/chat, he's quick to have him or his mods ban stuff without drawing attention to it.

Carci is a great streamer and I think the reception he's getting here because something someone else said is unfair.

EDIT: Carci was already live before the message was even posted, I don't know about you, but when I stream Discord is never open, and if I'm using it to talk, I'm sitting in the voice channel with it minimized.
 
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Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
I agree 100% with Carci.. It's insane how quickly some people here are ready to condem others... and lmfao the guy saying he should go to jail.. smh
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
Genuine question:

And I ask this as a white guy... Why is there even a reason to distinguish "hard -er" vs not "hard- er" when coming from a white person?

Is "-a" okay or something?

Doesn't make any fucking sense to me and seems just as racist and hateful.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,632
Canada
Genuine question:

And I ask this as a white guy... Why is there even a reason to distinguish "hard -er" vs not "hard- er" when coming from a white person?

Is "-a" okay or something?

Doesn't make any fucking sense to me and seems just as racist and hateful.
One is a bit more rooted in hate, the other can be associated with ignorance more than hate.

But both are rooted in hate and aren't acceptable.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Not surprised. I've watched a decent bit of Caleb's streams (what can I say I like speed runs) and there has been times where his red pill was definitely showing.
Ah well there are plenty of other speedrunners to watch
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,942
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