The number of "no" votes in there was some serious what the fuckery.
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Speaking of trans issues let's talk about racism and the general disregard of brands when we call them out for it.
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Yeah, we managed to close that one down in half an hour (it was like 6.30am for me and middle of the night in the US). It's crazy to see the number of people who vote and run, so yeah, we just aren't going to be allowing such polls on minority/bigotry-related issues. Voting and not posting to avoid moderation for a shitty point of view implies we shouldn't allow such poll options to exist in the first place, it just allows a weight of indifference to dismiss the concerns of people who the question affects.
Just curious, can mods/admins see who voted for what or is it really anonymous? Seems like a lot of these should be outright bannable.
Was going to ask this exact same question because answering 'no' to something like mentioned above seems like a slam dunk to be honest.
I know I wasn't able to, and am pretty sure admins couldn't either. Seems like an option for anonymous votes for an option given by the thread/poll creator that would otherwise be actionable as a post were an oversight in the software. After 2.5 years of the site, I'm honestly surprised it hasn't come up earlier, I guess we all thought it would be used for polls on 'which is the worst Thor film' and 'Sonic, Mario or Crash' rather than as a way to remind minority opinions that they were in the minority or for trash opinions to hide en-masse. Fuck that noise.
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Well I'm glad we caught it now and can fix it for next time it's horseshit that people are voting and running like that.
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In other era news the Niel drukman thread is attacking game journalists because they don't want to excuse shitty behavior from real people it's sickening. Nobody cares that drukman is being harassed it's all about what sterling said or polygon. God forbid bad people are being bad and are not being influenced by game journalists. This in of itself is just more examples of what I'm talking about on gaming side it's problematic doesn't help anything and is a literal minefield of problematic posts that drowns out the actual criticism.
Okay. So I made a point on that thread talking about that.
I don't believe that bad people are being influenced by game journalists.
But what I see as disappointing is that there has been minimal reporting on the levels of harassment that the developers, and actors have been getting.
When the game launched, I looked through the vilest things written on metacritic reviews and the things people involved in the project got as replies on every single one of their twitter posts.
As just a random person it filled me with shock. I can't imagine being the target of it.
And it's so disappointing to see that the "famous" names in the gaming sphere that aren't caricatures of the comic book guy from the Simpsons, have been just responding with snark, indifference to the harassment or hostility.
The gaming press should be responding with harsh criticism of the people sending horrible messages.
But it feels like they're not.
Like what do you want posters on resetera to do?
Report people on twitter? You know that doesn't do shit.
JK Rowling said that that hormone therapy is equivalent to gay conversation therapy today. She's not going to get banned.
These journalistic outlets represent the gaming community and should be pushing back harshly.
Because right now, it seems like the loudest voices are those stating that the harassment is deserved.
The transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism is vile with the icing of death threats on that shit cake.
And honestly it feels like the journalists are just sitting down, because they think the game is crap.
If you don't agree, tell me why you believe I'm wrong in having this opinion.
It's a shame really, that more people are not at least attempting to join the discussion. Someone in the press makes one comment about a screw on a vent, on the back of the PS5, and boom, 10 pages under an hour.
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Ive known gaming side has its own flow but considering that this thread both clashes with that and goes against the flow it makes sense why this happened. It's why I started the other thread in ectera it got views and people talked about the current situation. This isn't and that's in line with so many problems currently.
There used to be an option for making votes visible but it was removed a few months ago. Maybe on polls like that it should be enabled, although I guess in that case people would just avoid voting.
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Having it set to staff side monitoring regardless would fix that.
Then in that case, wouldnt staff be the only people who could view who voted for what?
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But isn't it better that way since bad faith polls would be more scrutinized?
I don't think the implication is, that the mods should ban everyone who votes a certain way. Seems like a nightmare, especially with the polls where 1000s of users cast their vote, there is realistically no way the mods can vet 100s of people like that.
I assume the idea would be that this sort of data could be used to better and more quickly screen users who are being reported for transphobia, racism, etc.
In my opinion, trying to curb polls one way or another, via threatening bans, is really not going to work.
People will open a given thread, see that there is a poll, and instantly pull out and set the thread on ignore. Which is not what ideally should happen, we want these threads to remain active so that discussion can continue, and hopefully, educate some people.
It's more practical to change guidelines, to now clearly state that polls can not be created in such a manner that allows shitshows like the JK Rowling one, to go down (Having a poll option that pretty much states "Don't care about biggotry, fuck yall, and let me game in peace!"). Force people to engage in the discussion, not just cast a vote, and quitely snicker at the fact that their opinion is validated by a silent mayority.
People will open a given thread, see that there is a poll, and instantly pull out and set the thread on ignore. Which is not what ideally should happen, we want these threads to remain active so that discussion can continue, and hopefully, educate some people.
It's more practical to change guidelines, to now clearly state that polls can not be created in such a manner that allows shitshows like the JK Rowling one, to go down (Having a poll option that pretty much states "Don't care about biggotry, fuck yall, and let me game in peace!"). Force people to engage in the discussion, not just cast a vote, and quitely snicker at the fact that their opinion is validated by a silent mayority.
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Anonymous polls honestly don't seem like they have a place here. If someone feels the need to be anonymous about their choice and can't post even a single word reply to support their choice, it means it probably doesn't belong on the site, especially on a forum board made to talk to people. They're just gonna keep being used in bad faith.
first of all, Mario.
now seriously, it is surprising that it didn't came up until now. but from what i'm remembering (probably didn't hit me) this wasn't an issue until recently, and that the polls were more about the fun stuff, and less about minority/bigotry-related issues
User Banned (Permanent): Drive-By Trolling in a Sensitive Thread; Long History of Dismissive Behavior and Patterm of Misogynistic Posts
These last batch of posts regarding polls...am I still on planet Earth?
Might have to explain a little further as to why you wouldn't be.
I have to admit, I was one of the people that voted that I didn't see the problem with a white actress voicing a black character. This was before reading the thread/discussion (which, arguably, I should've read before voting) and my train of thought came mostly from thinking about other fictional characters in media and how I didn't see it as a problem, in theory, for any type of fictional character to be voiced by whatever ethnicity out there. I was definitely also thinking of examples where it's the other way around or when a male characters is voiced by a female va, as happens a lot in anime. Then I read the thread, read about how small the pool of VA's is that are asked for everything and how underrepresented poc are in the va business and read more about the whole topic. I'd voted differently with what I know now and I definitely have ways to go to come to a better understanding of the subjects discussed. I was definitely looking at it from a theoretical/creative point of view and not having enough attention for how it undermines the position of poc or strengthens racism. Not a native speaker so if anything's poorly worded, let me know.
That's related to the core thrust of this thread, where a poll on widespread support for a brand/game/developer associated with fun for a majority crosses over into dismissing concerns of a minority as people. It's all in the framing of the question and the answers. Like, there's a big difference between 'looking forward to x game Y/N?' and 'Will you still buy x game given y issue Y/N?'. On top of that, we don't always know if the latter poll is being asked to raise awareness of an issue, which may well be a totally cool motivation with the best of intentions, or to make it clear how much the fanbase doesn't care, which obviously isn't. Context helps when we look into it, but yeah, it's something we're very much more aware of now.
I wasn't very active the last few days so this is the first time I see this thread. I agree with everything you said in the first post and wanted to say you have my support.
There are a lot of posts on this forum which excuse racism against brown/black people or pretend that racism doesn't exist in certain parts of the world. As someone with Arab roots it really sucks.
There are a lot of posts on this forum which excuse racism against brown/black people or pretend that racism doesn't exist in certain parts of the world. As someone with Arab roots it really sucks.
The general thought for those comments when they come up is usually "hey stop dogpiling, they'll get banned so just report and ignore." That doesn't seem to work. We've had discussion threads with the moderation on the response to racism (and the policing of frustration by minorities but that's a different conversation). A good chunk of the minority communities have. At this point most of us have opted to go do our own things elsewhere in more easily vetted groups.
To be clear, we're simply not gonna be allowing/hosting these polls anymore.
Found a really good indie project (and recent BAFTA finalist) that focuses on navigating a dinner with extended family as a non-out trans person.
Thought people in this thread might be interested. It's a well-executed exercise in empathy for those who aren't trans too (which is what I can speak to as my own experience of the game). If those who are in a position to judge its quality deem it solid, I think such a thing deserves its own thread.
A PinkNews article on the game and its development: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/07/...om-hosford-bafta-nominated-trans-transphobia/
Thought people in this thread might be interested. It's a well-executed exercise in empathy for those who aren't trans too (which is what I can speak to as my own experience of the game). If those who are in a position to judge its quality deem it solid, I think such a thing deserves its own thread.
A PinkNews article on the game and its development: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/07/...om-hosford-bafta-nominated-trans-transphobia/
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I agree however I do feel post to vote would allow better discussion overall what is your opinion on the subject? Like we could shut down these racist polls but also making it post to vote would discourage people from slinking off after voting.
Edit: in addition to that I also feel polls in general discourage minority posters from coming into threads due to a silent majority mindset but that is part of the issue I suppose. It's why I feel is if you take the route of doing vote my post it might make people feel safer when you can see everyone's intentions laid out in the discussion. That said doing away with polls is another solution that doesn't alienate anyone and might reduce discussion (though probably not)but also doesn't put people off either.
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whether or not this should be implemented is ultimately the question of whether this board wants to primarily be a safe space, or a place for open discussion of controversial subjects that concern minorities. it can't really be both, and neither choice is inherently wrong.
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Exactly their two good ideas that both fundamentally change how we interact on era. I just hope we can figure out a new system that can fix one of the issues addressed in this thread.
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I would keep an eye on deadly premonition 2 threads that pop up over trans representation. Apparently they got a character that gets constantly deadnamed.
edit I AM AN IDIOT OF MY GOD never post something and not read it over. (also stupid tablet buttons are dumb I shouldnt be making era posts with it)
edit I AM AN IDIOT OF MY GOD never post something and not read it over. (also stupid tablet buttons are dumb I shouldnt be making era posts with it)
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So, everyone always recommends The Missing as a positive LGBTQ+ experience. I'm sure it is, I've been interested in playing for a while. Deadly Premonition 2 though, doesn't seem to carry that torch whatsoever.
Don't know the specifics, but the game is rife with racism and transphobia according to Jim Sterling
The game's not even out yet and the review thread only just started getting impressions a couple of hours ago. Give it time.
You're right. Some reason I thought the game was out already, but that's Origins I was thinking of.
If you're talking about TLOU II, he is not constantly deadnamed, it happens in one scene - and not to his face. How you should feel about it is not up to me to say, but most criticism came from the leaks, many of which were maliciously presented and untrue.
This is written about this scene by a trans person, so it might give you an idea of how it's handled:
"Many trans players on Twitter objected to this scene, seeing it as a needless and violent example of "deadnaming," or using a trans person's birth name to hurt them. Personally, I liked that the scene wasn't a big, dramatic reveal. I appreciated that the game's action didn't screech to a halt while Abby grappled with the existence of trans people or while Lev poured out his feelings about his gender. The use of Lev's old name felt realistic to me—people who once cared for Lev deployed it to make it clear how they saw him, to assert their image of him over his own in order to bully him into compliance."
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I didn't even know until a few minutes ago (I never played the first game, didn't know the review embargo was today and didn't know when it was releasing either). This is getting quite a bit of talk in the review thread and from what I saw on the last page some are still tempted to make a purchase despite Swery fumbling on these issues.
As someone who lives in California, and has experienced as much racism here as I had in the Midwest, it's infuriating.
The truth is that, as long as there are places in the world where the majority benefit from institutionalized and systemic racism, there will be racism. California isn't immune to racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. The rhetoric that only Southern states in the US are racist really needs to fucking stop. It's not helping the discussion, or adding to the extermination of hateful, bigoted beliefs and systems.
She's talking about Deadly Premonition 2, but her post got messed with by autocorrect, I assume.
It's extremely disappointing to hear about. DP1 had issues but The Missing was a pretty big turnaround from that, even if I had a few nitpicks with its handling. Not a great feeling to see steps back from that.
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So sorry lol I screwed up when I posted that I was talking about deadly premonition 2 since thats coming out reread my edit it'll make more sense.
I see. My mistake, then.
No problem, my mistake - there is so much talk about TLOU2 lately, I automatically assumed that's what you meant :)
I think part of it is the intent, Swery apparently did a really good job with trans representation in his last game, and apparently the main character delivers a long speech decrying transphobia in DP2 as well, but apparently some deadnaming happens too. Unfortunately we don't know the context of the scenes yet but if it is bad it's likely unintentional and not malicious which puts it at odds with for example the new Harry Potter game