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Ambient80

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,612
All the time, and as a black European I can say that it's unequivocally false. Even taking football as an example, the racism that black players face regularly, especially from fans from the continent during matches is horrific. I'm not even sure it's a thing black American athletes face on the same scale, although correct me if I'm wrong.

That's not even going into the actual systemic racism in this part of the world.

Hell the US sports media helps perpetuate it. Example I always use is when cameras catch Tom Brady (famous US football player who is white) yelling at a coach or teammate on the sidelines usually in a very aggressive way, he is said to be "passionate", "a true leader", "determined", "focused", "driven". If you take basically any black football player, even if they're the top player in the league at their position and they do the exact same thing Brady did, and they're "savage", "crazy", "out of control", "maniacs", "childish".

It's gross, and walks that little line where for someone not paying attention it isn't obviously rooted in racism. More players have started calling that out recently, namely Richard Sherman, but it's awful and nearly every national sportscaster has been guilty of it at one time or another.

Then you have some newscasters who don't even attempt to hide it. "Shut up and dribble" was a big deal over here, which you could google to read about since this is already fairly off-topic lol
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
A lot of Era is a classic example of performative liberals who will waive a flag until it affects them personally or affects what they're into.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
This isn't the case though, in fact we literally know the misinformation is one of the single largest problems with the internet.

Naw, this is just deflection dude. We aren't talking about high level concepts here. The types of topics where people are catching bans for straight stupid stuff are like black face, transphobia, women representation, #metoo type stuff. These are not topics where wading out misinformation is difficult. If you know nothing about a topic to the point you are saying things that are just plain offending people, you don't have any worthwhile opinion to contribute, straight up.

Plenty of resources seem fine and others will come along and point out the problems. It's hard to find not just a good resource but one that works for you (I for example am not a book person, and barely a Youtube person). In fact, when there are lots resources the biggest problem is choice paralysis, you literally get overwhelmed and don't know where to start. Asking for help is not always an option in some cases, especially when deliberate ignorance is a common way to troll others.

This too is deflection. On this board, if someone wants to learn and they ask for resources, people provide resources. That's how it has always worked. The whole idea that the community is just hostile to anyone asking questions is false. People are hostile when there is zero effort from the offending party to do any work. If you want to learn, you don't open your mouth first then ask for help after you get called out for saying dumb shit. That's just reality.

People get sick of it, they become suspicious, positive intent is not assumed anymore. And particularly for minorities they wind up becoming the go-to and it can feel like a burden to be that person.

Look, there are minorities here who don't want to educate people and they do not have to. There are also minorities here who will provide the resources to those who are looking to learn if they ask. This is how it has always worked.

Bad faith being the rule is the whole problem. Nobody wants to deal with ignorance, nobody can tell if it's even legitimate. But learning is not passive. You cannot read a book and understand what bigotry and other things are and what they might mean. You need to be able to present ideas and be challenged on them, for better or worse that's exactly how message board communication works. It's not a blog, it's an anonymous debate. It's not always intuitive to think of it in those terms, but that's what we're working with.

Not for the basic stuff. Again, the stuff that people are catching bans for are not things you need to bring to the court of public opinion and be told, "no, sit the fuck down". That Uncharted Nadine thread is a perfect example. Yes you will be ban for saying Kratos is played by a black man, why does it matter. Yes you are going to be ban for saying "I don't see why this matters". If after reading the opening you still do not get it, sit and read the thread. Not every discussion has to accept a starting point of total ignorance. That's what people want it to be but Era is not going to start threads from a point where minorities need to allow for the most basic of courtesies to be skipped because someone just wants to say whatever shit they feel like.

Acceptability isn't results, it's just saying you hate dealing with it. It would be nice if certain things didn't need saying, but they do. There's a lot of hand-holding that needs to happen whether anyone likes it or not. Now, it's not anyone's responsibility and it's entirely fair to be fed up with it and wish they'd all go away, but it's the sort of social hygiene that needs to be done and to be honest, for the important things I wouldn't trust a surrogate to get it right either.

No one has to hold anyone's hand "here" specifically.. This is the shit I actually hate more than those dumb posts in these threads. A forum does not need to be everything to everyone. Era specifically does not need to be the place where that stuff is accepted. Go to reddit if you just want to post dumb shit without any accountability or expectation of common accepted standards.

If you sit in on a pHD level tutorial they aren't going to entertain high school levels of question and discourse just because someone is ignorant. The expectation is you come to the discussion equipped with the tools to effectively discuss it. Despite that, if you don't have them you aren't kicked out of the room, you're just expected to shut the fuck up and listen. The same thing applies here.

You don't need to post in a thread to get something out of it. That's a falsehood.
 
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Ricky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
909
I want to ask a question in turn: Why does the welfare of a studio suddenly become the utmost importance when people are concerned about the ethics of spending money on a game, and yet in any other context where you don't want to buy a game, the studio's welfare is either forgotten, or in some cases horrible working conditions are cheered on as "passion" or explained away as "the cost of making games?"

If the Harry Potter looked like it sucked, and thus few people wanted to buy it, the studio is in the same exact position as it would be if gamers collectively decided to not buy it because they didn't want to reward the transphobic asshole who produced the source material of the game with more money. But it would not be controversial to not buy a game because it looks unappealing, despite the fact that the same result occurs: the studio loses out on sales.

This goes back to my point about asking gamers to take a moral stand that gets in the way of participating in the hobby, btw. But overall, consumers are not obligated to buy a video game for any reason, and artists are not owed success just because they made a product. Ultimately though, asking these kinds of questions, even in good-faith, put this ridiculous guilt-trip on top of minorities and their allies to give money to people who inherently undermine their existence and quality of life. Again, the fact is if I said I didn't want to buy the game because I didn't like RPGS, no one would then browbeat me about the developer's welfare and ask me "what happens if the game bombs?" Who the fuck cares?
I didn't mean to make it seem as if the studio's success was the most important thing at stake, I also admit I didn't necessarily think of someone's personal life being affected.
You understand very little within the context of this and your post is emblematic of the issue. You have an entire thread of discussion in question - with these exact points raised numerous times - to help you understand but instead you're content simply claiming to and marching on in ignorance expecting others to educate you.
I read a decent amount of posts before that poll post in particular caught my eye. I had no intentions of offending anyone. I never claimed to have a lot of context regarding the situation, in fact I was unaware of anything the HP author said. I can admit I know very little about what is going regarding this, I am not active on social media (unless we're counting ERA) and am usually out of the loop on a lot of stuff that I do see on ERA.
See, this is the sort of shit we just see all the time, twisting things to suit your agenda. 'think of the poor developers!'

Yeah sure, people might not be insensitive to the issues but lets not pretend that people want to buy it to 'support the devs', they want it because they want to play a Harry Potter game. I don't think I've ever seen 'supporting the devs' being used as a reason to a purchase of a game that doesn't have the same sort of sensitive issues.
I have no agenda and apologize if it seems as if I do. I don't intend for it to sound like we should "support the devs" or the studio for that matter. I do think of the individual person who gets paid to do a job though. I understand there are bigger issues in regards to this particular game/situation and that people's lives are affected.


Again, if I offended anyone, I really do apologize. I'll refrain from posting in threads like this and try to learn more about what's being discussed in here.
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,359
I hope this is the right place to plug this link. It explains how to be an ally to trans people. Could be good for lurkers:

Tips for allies of transgender people
Thank you for sharing this. There were some sweet little "cool I'm already doing those ones!" back-pat moments for me, along with a couple of things to work on/think about.

Threads like this are a big help for me, because I'm a little out of the loop on current events as I don't engage in social media. For example, I only learned of JK Rowling's transphobia in the thread about it on Era. I was hyped for the HP RPG before learning of this. Now I'm happy to give it a miss and spend my money elsewhere. I'll already "not support the poor Devs" for thousands of games every year due to a lack of time, interest or quality. Adding one more to the pile to avoid supporting a bigot is not a huge ask IMO. It's quite literally the least I could do.

Anyway, just another straight white cis-gender male here happy to STFU and be told what I can do to help. If you need my immense privilege and size thrown behind anything to help, just holler. Being an ally isn't something you can just call yourself; it's something you earn through words and actions.
 

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
It would be a lot of work. But maybe creating a set of templates that provide "teachable " comments to banned users with problematic posts instead of the usual 4 word ban messages? for example someone here mentioned that bans of 3,4 days . Those could be used as "teachable moments" for these kind of bans and provide a more in deep explanation of why their comments got moderated in that way.

Maybe including some quotes of affected users and how those kind of comments/attitudes/views affects them. Similar to the quick snippets in the "Top Plataform games" thread. The point is to generate empathy.

Obviously, any repeating offenders will mean they haven't learned anything or they do not care.
 

YellowBara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,066
I wish I had more to offer than what is in this post but I want to just put my thoughts here:

As someone who is a minority in more ways than just one, I've been feeling less and less comfortable on ResetERA lately specifically due to the issues mentioned in the OP and I appreciate that there is an earnest desire to talk about and examine the issues this forum has, especially regarding transphobia as well as speaking over our BIPOC community in regards to simple things. I really hope that people on this forum take the time to understand how their statements affect people on this forum, even the ones that don't post constantly. (Hell, even I could be better about this, admittedly)

This is a much needed conversation here and I hope the topic isn't just brushed aside and ignored like many of the issues constantly brought to light here. I would like to have hope that we can and WILL do better here.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
It would be a lot of work. But maybe creating a set of templates that provide "teachable " comments to banned users with problematic posts instead of the usual 4 word ban messages? for example someone here mentioned that bans of 3,4 days . Those could be used as "teachable moments" for these kind of bans and provide a more in deep explanation of why their comments got moderated in that way.

Maybe including some quotes of affected users and how those kind of comments/attitudes/views affects them. Similar to the quick snippets in the "Top Plataform games" thread. The point is to generate empathy.

Obviously, any repeating offenders will mean they haven't learned anything or they do not care.

In most of the threads where bans are more than 1 or 2 people you get a message from the moderation team with exactly what will and will not be tolerated. I dunno. I don't really understand what is so difficult about towing the line on some of these issues. You are not going to be allowed to post any sort of dismissive rhetoric in a thread about minority concerns. It is consistently said not to do this. What "teachable" is really needed?

The JK Rowling thread went the same as every minority issues thread on gaming side.

"Yo, this is a really important topic to discuss."

"If the game is sick whatever, I'm not punishing the devs"

I dunno, come on. Read the room maybe?

The poll doesn't surprise me at all. That honestly was the expected outcome and we are all deluding ourselves thinking it would be anything but that. To me the more embarrassing thing was people who wont even turn there head slightly at a property that has the lead saying such insane shitty things. Like, at some point if your purchase ethics are not shaken even a little by the stuff Rowling is saying I find that problematic. Not the idea you still have interest, the idea there is nothing they could do to shake any bit of interest at all. That's scary to me.
 
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Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
I tried writing a long, well thought out educational post but my browser ate it. So I am just going to say this, if you want to be an actual ally and educate yourself specifically on trans issues and Media watch the documentary Disclosure on Netflix and maybe begin to understand that for trans issues even the minor and "problematic" things truly hurt and lead to both real world discrimination and violence against trans people.

If you can watch the whole thing and then continue arguing some of these points (which as expected have reared their head even here) your not an ally so stop pretending.
 

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
In most of the threads where bans are more than 1 or 2 people you get a message from the moderation team with exactly what will and will not be tolerated. I dunno. I don't really understand what is so difficult about towing the line on some of these issues. You are not going to be allowed to post any sort of dismissive rhetoric in a thread about minority concerns. It is consistently said not to do this. What "teachable" is really needed?

My idea is more in line to provide more firsthand insight/examples on how those kind of attitudes hurt the affected people and, at least try, to generate more empathy. Sure, a lot of those will be malicious people, but even to them, knowing how those attitudes affects others, it can generate more empathy.

This Forum has a lot of people, which I'm sure, have a lot of bad experiences to share

For what i can see in the OP, a lot of the frustration is not coming from the moderation, but from the people who harbors these views, sadly there is no much to do there other than making them aware of how they affect others with their racist, bigoted or dismissive attitudes, and since they will get this on their banned screens, they don't have any other choice than to read that.

This is only thing i can think of in addressing these users mentality in the forum.
 
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Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,090
I don't really have anything to add, but thanks for these threads OP. The problem is definitely so much more than just what happens in trans threads- the culture problem here is pervasive. I really encourage people to think about what it means to be an ally to marginalized populations. It takes more than just voting left every few years. It takes more than just eating up whatever mass market representation cis-white dudes decide to grace us with. It takes more than blurting out platitudes you're not willing to act upon. You gotta do more.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".
Holy fucking hell....

I barely made it half way through page one. The sheer hostility and anger they received for pointing out the fact that these popular characters are associated with Homophobia and Transphobia is horrifying and disgusting.

Some of which came from so called "allies" in other threads. This community, sometimes I swear I dont understand how they can claim they are better than where we came from.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
Holy fucking hell....

I barely made it half way through page one. The sheer hostility and anger they received for pointing out the fact that these popular characters are associated with Homophobia and Transphobia is horrifying and disgusting.

Some of which came from so called "allies" in other threads. This community, sometimes I swear I dont understand how they can claim they are better than where we came from.
And the worst part, a number of those who dismissed her concerns are still here now. It just......angers me, you know? I've always said that I don't like bullies, so seeing the reactions she got for raising her concerns legitimately bothers me.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".

Easily one of the worst ERA threads I've ever seen, that first reply says it all.
 

Faith

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,880
UK
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".

Fucking hell why did I Iook at that, like 95%(if not more) of the posts was just straight up dismissal and mobbing the OP. It's absolutely disgusting.
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
And the worst part, a number of those who dismissed her concerns are still here now. It just......angers me, you know? I've always said that I don't like bullies, so seeing the reactions she got for raising her concerns legitimately bothers me.
Like is it any surprise that PoC or LBGT folk are slowly starting to with draw and leave Reset Era.

No minority should feel safe here, not a single one of us. So many people claim ally ship across multiple threads are in that, demanding for them to shut up or fuck off.

This community and the fact that the majority of those names are not banned show that this place isn't some haven no matter how much they may want to claim otherwise.
 

Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".
That's sick to begin with, and really pisses me off since Kinsei is a long-standing and well regarded member of the community, and on a personal level while she may not know it her posting has given me hope and helped me hold on through some of the shit.

Pretty disappointing and gross.
 

Seductivpancakes

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,790
Brooklyn
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".
All those "What a dumb thread" should be permanent bans to be honest.

If people voice concerns about homophobia, people should take it seriously. Either read it and come to a conclusion that may or may not agree with the OP.

Just going "What a dumb thread" is 100% telling LGBTQ+ members that their concerns are not worth this community's attention.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
You probably want to add ATLUS to the list, OP. Here's a great write up:

www.resetera.com

The Phobic Crimes of Katsura Hashino (Director/Producer, ATLUS)

WHAT IS THIS? It was suggested by several members in the ongoing thread about the Catherine: Full Body scandal (see below) that a "megathread" be created about the man responsible, Katsura Hashino. The purpose of said thread would be to educate Era users about his views, works, and the...
will do
 

Kangi

Profile Styler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,948
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".
The kicker was that it happened during pride month, and the number of pride-ified avatars posting utter derision of the OP made my blood boil. That thread made me all but abandon gaming side, and even a year later I feel like this place is a minefield.
 

Mossiah

Member
Aug 28, 2018
206
New York
The kicker was that it happened during pride month, and the number of pride-ified avatars posting utter derision of the OP made my blood boil. That thread made me all but abandon gaming side, and even a year later I feel like this place is a minefield.
The "lets just cancel everything" replies have me ready to pull my hair out.
The rainbow avi's are just the icing on the damn cake.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".
Jesus fucking christ I added this one to the op that's A REALLLY GOOD EXAMPLE of what I am talking about. We shouldn't be mobbing the op because its a game we like and the very fact that this happened is just par for the course on era and legitimately needs to stop.
 

Seductivpancakes

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,790
Brooklyn
The kicker was that it happened during pride month, and the number of pride-ified avatars posting utter derision of the OP made my blood boil. That thread made me all but abandon gaming side, and even a year later I feel like this place is a minefield.
That's like the same shit all those GOP shit lords do and say during Black History Month.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,217
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".
Ironic that the people in this thread are the ones complaining about "negativity"
 

Inquisitive_Ghost

Cranky Ghost Pokemon
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,120
This meant that the mere presence of minorities was a threat, because the juxtaposition means straight, white, cis dudes can no longer claim marginalization with any sort of clout, hence the rebuking of the "politics" that reminds them of this fact.
I never quite made this connection.

All your posts in this thread have been quite insightful.
 

Nephrahim

Member
Jun 9, 2018
291
FVdMsAL.png

Reposting this from the other thread so people don't have to look for it.
This Poll does fascinate me because it tells me there is a significant lurker population of the site with more reactionary views then the general tone of the actual posts on this forum. I suspect there's a fair amount of people who feel if they posted what they "Really thought" they'd just get banned, so they don't, but are willing to participate in polls like this because such an action isn't subject to moderation.

And in that light, I wonder what the reaction to this poll should be? If there were ten thousand racists on this website who don't post... Is that something that needs to be addressed? Is it something that can be?
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
This Poll does fascinate me because it tells me there is a significant lurker population of the site with more reactionary views then the general tone of the actual posts on this forum. I suspect there's a fair amount of people who feel if they posted what they "Really thought" they'd just get banned, so they don't, but are willing to participate in polls like this because such an action isn't subject to moderation.

And in that light, I wonder what the reaction to this poll should be? If there were ten thousand racists on this website who don't post... Is that something that needs to be addressed? Is it something that can be?

You can't purge people for thought crimes, but it's clear the culture here trends towards a center-right materialist viewpoint that only pays lip service to social justice; when the lightest criticism is lobbed against their favorite electronic toy, they flip out. ERA is only "progressive" when compared to other big media websites.
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
You can't purge people for thought crimes, but it's clear the culture here trends towards a center-right materialist viewpoint that only pays lip service to social justice; when the lightest criticism is lobbed against their favorite electronic toy, they flip out. ERA is only "progressive" when compared to other big media websites.

This would have sufficed some years ago when game developers, publishers and producers were beginning to get aware of these issues. But when they saw that they had to move to the next step, meaning there would be also financial losses, then things reached a dead end.

Proof that RE is the only popular forum with that approach though on a wider scale it is like a drop in the ocean. If it weren't for the moderating team, things would be just like any other average gaming forum where things bannable here would be everyday talk. It is also quite a feat to keep order in such a mass forum but it surely takes its toll.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,982
Somewhere.
When Hero was revealed for Smash Ultimate, Kinsei rightfully raised concerns that 40% of Fighters Pass Vol. 1 was linked to homophobia &/or transphobia. Unfortunately, the thread was met with inflammatory drive-by posts dismissing the legitimate concerns (with some even thinking that she was a troll account).
www.resetera.com

Can we talk about how 40% of the Smash Bros season pass is linked to homophobia?

First we have Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, a game which has horrible homophobic stereotypes of gay men that repeatedly try to sexually assault a high schooler. This is nothing new for the Persona series either. Persona 3 includes an incredibly transphobic scene while one of your party...
It was disappointing to see at the time, & even more disappointing to look back on. She was right to be concerned, & everyone just hand-waved it as her "reading too much into it".

Oh god, this damn thread. I was just mind blown then of how fucking hostile it was, and frankly I feel like more bans should have been put out. Definitely one of the worst here.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
The kicker was that it happened during pride month, and the number of pride-ified avatars posting utter derision of the OP made my blood boil. That thread made me all but abandon gaming side, and even a year later I feel like this place is a minefield.
There are reasons I didn't want to make a pride avatar thread this year, part of it is shit like that, a lot of people don't actually give a fuck. At best, I think the majority around here are indifferent to LGBTQ+, but man it can turn nasty pretty quick like in that thread.

I just hope threads like this shine a light on these issues with the community and people actually try to be better in the future, don't know what else to say at this point.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
This Poll does fascinate me because it tells me there is a significant lurker population of the site with more reactionary views then the general tone of the actual posts on this forum. I suspect there's a fair amount of people who feel if they posted what they "Really thought" they'd just get banned, so they don't, but are willing to participate in polls like this because such an action isn't subject to moderation.

And in that light, I wonder what the reaction to this poll should be? If there were ten thousand racists on this website who don't post... Is that something that needs to be addressed? Is it something that can be?
This is something I had wondered too. That polls framed as a 'will you still buy x game after x problematic thing came to light' on such topics, while the OP meant well in raising awareness, just allow people to chime in with a dismissive '+1' while avoiding moderation. It's a bit like allowing 'likes' on comments. You get a hell of a lot of people all hiding behind the most eloquent post that is hiding it's dismissiveness behind verbosity and plausible deniability, instead of those people having to make their own argument. It provides a ready-made base for complaints along the lines of 'but this dismissive position was the most popular, why was it banned'. Which, considering the state of the recent colonialism thread that had a couple of dozen mod actions in the first three pages, is what we are trying to avoid.

Any site that is interested in minority views shouldn't be allowing such popularity polls on 'will you still buy this' by definition , as much like the HP poll, it just provides reassurance for the majority at the disheartening cost of reminding others how badly outnumbered they are. Straw polls on bigotry open to everyone isn't equity, or even equality. It's putting those with nothing to lose but a new toy on the same level as those personally affected, with the side-effect of visably and immediately reassuring the former that they are surrounded by others that feel similar concern for favourite toys, IP and studios overrides the need for more immediate empathy towards their fellow posters.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
A lot of Era is a classic example of performative liberals who will waive a flag until it affects them personally or affects what they're into.
Yup, this tweet encapsulates the prevailing attitude here

Dt7gcAjWsAAaD36


most people can agree on the social issues but lack any understanding of material causes or empathy for those affected as soon as it starts to affect them. Like as soon as they are asked to do literally anything to help solve the issue or even acknowledge that their faves might be a bit problematic (and we all have our own) people get defensive.

The shitty thing about the forum format is that there is no way to sort good posts from bad. When a thread goes long enough, the same arguments keep repeating themselves because no one is gonna read through 20+ pages. Maybe there should be a way to pin comments or something so that people can come in and not have to wade through the whole thread to find the good posts that explain why X is bad. And oftentimes with every new thread about transphobia or whatever the same minority community members have to spell out the same arguments over and over again. It's just a problem inherent with the forum format. It keeps happening and people just start giving up. idk. I'm tired too.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
This is something I had wondered too. That polls framed as a 'will you still buy x game after x problematic thing came to light' on such topics, while the OP meant well in raising awareness, just allow people to chime in with a dismissive '+1' while avoiding moderation. It's a bit like allowing 'likes' on comments. You get a hell of a lot of people all hiding behind the most eloquent post that is hiding it's dismissiveness behind verbosity and plausible deniability, instead of those people having to make their own argument. It provides a ready-made base for complaints along the lines of 'but this dismissive position was the most popular, why was it banned'. Which, considering the state of the recent colonialism thread that had a couple of dozen mod actions in the first three pages, is what we are trying to avoid.

Any site that is interested in minority views shouldn't be allowing such popularity polls on 'will you still buy this' by definition , as much like the HP poll, it just provides reassurance for the majority at the disheartening cost of reminding others how badly outnumbered they are. Straw polls on bigotry open to everyone isn't equity, or even equality. It's putting those with nothing to lose but a new toy on the same level as those personally affected, with the side-effect of visably and immediately reassuring the former that they are surrounded by others that feel similar concern for favourite toys, IP and studios overrides the need for more immediate empathy towards their fellow posters.
Part of me suspects that whoever made the poll didn't word it correctly to begin with and the people who saw the wording jumped on the bandwagon and that's why it's so skewed like that. That said it's still fairly problematic and is a bad look because now we have to examine the entire community of lurkers on era who sent posting their opinions.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
Yup, this tweet encapsulates the prevailing attitude here

Dt7gcAjWsAAaD36


most people can agree on the social issues but lack any understanding of material causes or empathy for those affected as soon as it starts to affect them. Like as soon as they are asked to do literally anything to help solve the issue or even acknowledge that their faves might be a bit problematic (and we all have our own) people get defensive.

The shitty thing about the forum format is that there is no way to sort good posts from bad. When a thread goes long enough, the same arguments keep repeating themselves because no one is gonna read through 20+ pages. Maybe there should be a way to pin comments or something so that people can come in and not have to wade through the whole thread to find the good posts that explain why X is bad. And oftentimes with every new thread about transphobia or whatever the same minority community members have to spell out the same arguments over and over again. It's just a problem inherent with the forum format. It keeps happening and people just start giving up. idk. I'm tired too.
I mean that's what threadmarks could be used for but it's genuinely reliant on the op taking the time and due dilligance to map out some threadmarks for people to read. That and how staff posts used to work was also thrown in there. It's nice that it's now on the bottom of the page where its visible to everyone.
 

Thronazuug

Member
Mar 30, 2019
244
You can maybe add reaction to the BBC report of gaming companies directly or indirectly using LITERAL SLAVE labor from Uyghur concentration camps to the list.

Thread was made by good people but it was eye opening how dismissive and blissfully ignorant people were. The silence from gaming "news" outlets and "journalists" was deafening. I and some other member got banned from the reason of "antagonizing other members" when we point out and held people accountable for their silence.

Thanks to those people who were posting in dismissive and defeatist ways or with outright obtuse stanning the thread faded quickly since march and the silence continues.

I understand this site, despite many good people, is full of shills and free PRs and stans and it breaks my spirit.

So thanks OP for this thread. Well done!
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
That smash thread holy crap.
That is the general attitude completely unfiltered. That's what a lot of people in the other threads are trying to say subtly.

There's some users in there that I'm really surprised by and I'm surprised some of those people are still here considering what they said.
 

Zellia

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
UK
I actually missed that Smash thread first time round and I'm glad I did. What kind of pathetic manchild do you have to be that critique of a video game's choice of characters prompts 'fuck off' in response?

Absolutely embarrassing. But I suppose it's at least more honest than the 'I'm buying the game for the devs' rubbish that gets touted around here so often (including in this very thread).
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,180
Oh wow, congrats on the sticky. I had little faith in the thread lasting this long.
 

Eighthours

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
103
User Banned (permanent): misrepresenting concerns of transphobia, previous severe ban for dismissive behaviour in sensitive topics
I'll just repeat myself, it's important that people at some point realize that this forum does not need posters who actively do not care for trans people and their concerns. The forum has to be ok with losing those people.

I think it's important to realise that there's clear blue water between 'not actively caring for trans people' and being transphobic. Not everyone on Era has to be an activist, nor does everyone have to contribute to every thread about trans issues to demonstrate loudly that they support the prevalent view. That kind of attitude leads to groupthink. Some people will just have other priorities, which is fair enough. Maybe their priority will be another issue they regard as very important, which you don't particularly campaign on.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
I think it's important to realise that there's clear blue water between 'not actively caring for trans people' and being transphobic. Not everyone on Era has to be an activist, nor does everyone have to contribute to every thread about trans issues to demonstrate loudly that they support the prevalent view. That kind of attitude leads to groupthink. Some people will just have other priorities, which is fair enough. Maybe their priority will be another issue they regard as very important, which you don't particularly campaign on.

Bullshit. You should care about trans people because they're human beings who deserve to live peacefully and safely.

This forum should have no place for people who "don't care" about marginalized groups.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,065
I think it's important to realise that there's clear blue water between 'not actively caring for trans people' and being transphobic. Not everyone on Era has to be an activist, nor does everyone have to contribute to every thread about trans issues to demonstrate loudly that they support the prevalent view. That kind of attitude leads to groupthink. Some people will just have other priorities, which is fair enough. Maybe their priority will be another issue they regard as very important, which you don't particularly campaign on.

If you don't care for trans people you are transphobic.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
I think it's important to realise that there's clear blue water between 'not actively caring for trans people' and being transphobic. Not everyone on Era has to be an activist, nor does everyone have to contribute to every thread about trans issues to demonstrate loudly that they support the prevalent view. That kind of attitude leads to groupthink. Some people will just have other priorities, which is fair enough. Maybe their priority will be another issue they regard as very important, which you don't particularly campaign on.
For a little thought experiment, read your post but replace "trans people" with "black people" (or some other minority) and "transphobic" with "racist" and see how it reads. And then realize what you sound like.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
They do indeed, I'm just saying that not contributing to trans threads shouldn't be a litmus test for forum membership.

Nobody said anything about not contributing to threads?

If the only thing you have to offer in a JK Rowling thread is "can't wait to play the new Harry Potter game" you are signaling that you don't care about trans people or their concerns.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,583
A lot of Era is a classic example of performative liberals who will waive a flag until it affects them personally or affects what they're into.
This isn't the same thing as prejudice obviously, but I always chuckle a bit when a thread about vegetarianism pops up, and why people won't consider it (I'm not even a vegetarian btw). When the conversation involves asking to do something more than sign a petition, make a social post, or donate a small amount, you see pretty quickly who can't be bothered
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,522
In hindsight I probably should have waited a couple of days before making that Smash thread. I think by creating it the same day Hero was announced people felt like I was attacking them for being excited.

I just don't know how we can improve as a community when these attitudes were, and continue to be, fostered by the video game industry itself.