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keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
333
It means you're following the tropes that make trans discussions on the forum irritating. If you understand coming in uninformed was poor and that an emotional response is expected, I'm not sure why you feel validated in entrenching that by telling them to fuck off.

Your intent is meaningless in the face of being the next in a long line of members not reading the issue or listening to the trans voices before jumping in with a "well I don't think it's transphobic" take.

I don't feel entrenched on what I first posted cause I admitted I was wrong on my take. I actually listened to what other users posted and incorporated it.

I told the user to fuck off for casting such severe judgment on someone they do not know. I believe I interpreted the episode with a wrong context in my mind and was corrected and informed to the situation. I can accept that.

I will admit that I did not read through the whole thread before posting, I only just watched the episode.

Also I agree that transphobia does not only come from malice, ignorance is a blight in society. I don't consider myself transphobic because I have exactly the same respect for trans people as for anyone else, never have or will I dismiss anyone's opinion that is expressed as an exchange of open ideas, wrong or right. I´m sympathetic with the trans struggle and yet I am very far from actually understanding or walking a mile in their shoes. So I appreciate being informed and argued with respect, because I don't believe I said anything on an objective level to create this disdain or dismissal.

I actually enjoyed posting what I did, regardless of the negativity it received cause I know have some more understanding and knowledge.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
333
If you want to practice respect you should read a thread before you post. Especially if it's about of subset of the population you're not a part of. There's 10 pages in this thread and nothing you have said is anything new compared to the last 9 pages. You're getting responses you don't like because you're one of a number of people asking trans people to repeat the same arguments ad nauseam.
Fair enough
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
Me and a cousin of mine used to be HUGE South Park fans way back when it was new. Our easily impressionable teenage brains thought it was the coolest shit ever!

After 3-4 years and it was no longer the hot new thing the appeal faded out for me and I stopped caring about it, but he continued to watch it.

Today he is a casually bigoted person with a shitty worldview on a bunch of things, and I can't help but think that South Park is at least partially responsible for it. He's become an insufferable shit and I can't stand him anymore. I don't even go to family gatherings when I know he's gonna be there.

So yeah, fuck you Parker and Stone, you privileged Libertarian pieces of shit.
 
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beelulzebub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,579
And this means what? After being labeled as something I loathe I will tell anyone to fuck off. I came here with no intention to disrespect, and I can certainly appreciate an emotional response and I can certainly have one as well.

I did not know the user was trans, so I can better appreciate the emotional response on that now. Having said that, I don't intend to offend anyone with what I post.

I hold some very strong opinions too, I come from Argentina and it pains me people living in the first world praising out populism in our region. Yet I do not lash out, or try not to.

Anyway... like I said, I did not mean to offend anyone with my take only generate a discussion. I apologize if anyone saw my comments as someone against trans rights or the struggle they face daily.
Wanting to "generate a discussion" from your perspective may feel well-intentioned, but you have to look at it from their perspective. Your post is another in a long line of people who may be like you but may also be people who are NOT well-intentioned, and use people like you as cover fire to obfuscate their intentions. Trans people aren't interested in a discussion on the basic points you're exploring ad nauseum because what may be an interesting mental exploration for you is their daily lived experience, and it's one where they're constantly under threat and badly disrespected.

If your intentions are good, the best thing you can do is stop responding and listen and learn.
 
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Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
31,904
I actually enjoyed posting what I did, regardless of the negativity it received cause I know have some more understanding and knowledge.
Yeh, this - enjoying yourself regardless of the upset you cause to trans people while claiming you deeply care about trans people - isn't anything new in trans threads either.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
333
I'm genuinely sorry I upset trans people, I will stop posting and read more to learn. All I will say, hope you can forgive me if I have upset or wronged anyone with my posts.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,092
Me and a cousin of mine used to be HUGE South Park fans way back when it was new. Our easily impressionable teenage brains thought it was the coolest shit ever!

After 3-4 years and it was no longer the hot new thing the appeal faded out for me and I stopped caring about it, but he continued to watch it.

Today he is a casually bigoted person with a shitty worldview on a bunch of things, and I can't help but think that South Park is at least partially responsible for it. He's become an insufferable shit and I can't stand him anymore. I don't even go to family gatherings when I know he's gonna be there.

So yeah, fuck you Parker and Stone, you privileged Libertarian pieces of shit.

The joke I've always made is South Park is a lot more entertaining when you're too young to watch it.
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,608
Chill down. First of all I admitted I was wrong, as long as a person is open to discussion and exchange of ideas to say that their input is not appreciated is stupidity of a major magnitud. I'm not from the US, so I might be as versed as some of you but I still like to engage in discussions. They generate growth, and I did not come here disrespecting anyone until you came to shit on what I said.

You consider me a transphobe? Man you can fuck right off, I might hold some misguided views but I accept everyone as it is and I feel sad for so many of the struggles that trans people have to go through. You clearly don't know me, you are a clown to spew venom like that.

Ok... now I need to chill it seems. I'm as far from the far right as you are from tolerance.

I came here to expose what I perceived from the episode based on my world view and open for it to be challenged and changed with reasonable arguments. You shutting me down does nothing more than divide, get off your ivory tower and understand that a reasonable and open exchange of ideas between grown up people in an open way can lead to growth.

Learn to differentiate between a MAGA meat head and someone open to have their views challenged. Sorry but the pre judging of someone pisses me off, even if I was wrong, there is no excuse for what you labeled me as.
If you will take the time to carefully reread my post, you'll see that nowhere in it did I accuse you of being a transphobe. I did, however, say that you were spouting typical transphobic talking points, and that you were making a very suspect impression as to your motivations in posting them. As some others here have pointed out (thanks, peeps!), we trans are bombarded daily with the precise, cisspeculative boilerplate ("We need to watch for those exploiting gray areas", "We need to be able to have this conversation/ask tough questions", "We need to ensure fairness for [cis people too]", etc.) that you reeled off in your post. As such, we're perpetually forced into constant "explanation mode" to combat uninformed and irresponsible notions, which is exhausting and can cause patience to run short.

This forum (fortunately) possesses a fairly respectable representation among its membership, and one which is pressed by necessity to be regularly vocal. We have thread after thread on this board (cited here and in other trans-related discussions active this very day) attempting to educate and enlighten sincere aspirants with answers on the trans experience. When the exact same refrains keep issuing forth in spite of these prodigious efforts, it can't fail but to give the impression that we're being ignored, not listened to, instead shouted down with dubious, even disingenuous canards cooked up by non-transgender people, often with nefarious intent. How do you anticipate we will react when cis people come swooping in to advertise their opinions on trans-related matters, without first bothering to check, ask, or consider trans folks' thoughts and feelings on the matter? Especially when those opinions so often and "coincidentally" resemble said harmful boilerplate?

Instead of defensively recoiling from my admittedly (and, I think, justifiably) sharp rebuke with a discourse-killing "fuck you", how about pausing for a moment to maybe contemplate how your statements could have provoked such an impassioned response from a trans person? (Although I see several other trans voices have ably and thankfully chimed in to maybe enlighten you on the matter.)
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,945
Ok... now I need to chill it seems. I'm as far from the far right as you are from tolerance.
I'd just like to point out that the circumstances in which people like you and I are talking about tolerance are the same circumstances where other people are talking about their own well-being.

Not everyone is equally free to choose to be disinterested and disconnected from every topic.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Looking at the South Park subreddit I would wager the whole "but nuance" goes out the window because plenty there are falling for the very trap many mentioned in here. "It's just pc culture" and "the episode is about the unfair advantage "
 

NeuroCloud

Banned
Jun 10, 2019
103
Excellent discussion above.

I was initially defending South Park's framework of presenting two opposing ideas through comedy to non-judgmentally demonstrate how ridiculous both sides of any fence can look.

In this case, the bigoted perspective is presented as ridiculous, while the sporting regulation perspective is presented as an imperfect solution.

I had also forgotten their past commentary on this issue. The dolphin surgery episode indeed was predicated on an assumption that transitioning is an arbitrary choice, which is undisputedly a damaging, transphobic assumption (and factually incorrect). I fiercely despise anyone who holds such an assumption.

Initially, I questioned my own level of bias towards South Park in defending them. After much consideration, I realised my perspective is accurate.

The damaging underlying assumptions were not presented as arguments, opinions, or facts. If crazy beliefs exist, then South Park will observe and mock society for it. The damaging assumptions that form the basis of episodes do exist in society today, so South Park will present the ridiculousness of those situations.

Observational social commentary is from a bird's eye perspective. The intention is to mock society for their crazy beliefs. Matt and Trey are the aliens from episode 1, observing and concluding that cows are more advanced than humans. Every episode is written from the observational perspective of those aliens tut-tutting over the ridiculousness of this strange new species they've discovered.

I believe this is an accurate perspective of their work.

I also believe their approach can be an effective agent for positive change, and that's why people become disappointed when they fail to function as positive agents of change more consistently.

To that, I say they couldn't deviate from their approach without losing their effectiveness anyway. Please move to the next post if you're not clearly seeing my point.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
31,904
After much consideration, I realised my perspective is accurate.

giphy.gif


It's a transphobic episode of South Park. There's not much consideration needed. It emboldens and validates trash that hold transphobic views and rhetoric toward trans athletes. You can say it's actually mocking them but it's vapid at best when it perpetuates a view and sentiment that ultimately results in insults, threats and violence toward trans people in real life. One that sees trans women as men looking to trick or gain advantage over cisgender people.

Unless you're just saying 'South Park exists to do this', in which case I'm not sure why we needed a thesis. It's not an uncommon opinion. It's also not a validation or excuse for espousing transphobic views that are indistinguishable from people who view real life trans athletes as 'lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freaks'.

I also believe their approach can be an effective agent for positive change, and that's why people become disappointed when they failure to function as positive agents of change more consistently.
It's South Park, not Stonewall. People aren't disappointed, there was never any expectation of it effecting positive change.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Excellent discussion above.

I was initially defending South Park's framework of presenting two opposing ideas through comedy to non-judgmentally demonstrate how ridiculous both sides of any fence can look.

In this case, the bigoted perspective is presented as ridiculous, while the sporting regulation perspective is presented as an imperfect solution.

I had also forgotten their past commentary on this issue. The dolphin surgery episode indeed was predicated on an assumption that transitioning is an arbitrary choice, which is undisputedly a damaging, transphobic assumption (and factually incorrect). I fiercely despise anyone who holds such an assumption.

Initially, I questioned my own level of bias towards South Park in defending them. After much consideration, I realised my perspective is accurate.

The damaging underlying assumptions were not presented as arguments, opinions, or facts. If crazy beliefs exist, then South Park will observe and mock society for it. The damaging assumptions that form the basis of episodes do exist in society today, so South Park will present the ridiculousness of those situations.

Observational social commentary is from a bird's eye perspective. The intention is to mock society for their crazy beliefs. Matt and Trey are the aliens from episode 1, observing and concluding that cows are more advanced than humans. Every episode is written from the observational perspective of those aliens tut-tutting over the ridiculousness of this strange new species they've discovered.

I believe this is an accurate perspective of their work.

I also believe their approach can be an effective agent for positive change, and that's why people become disappointed when they fail to function as positive agents of change more consistently.

To that, I say they couldn't deviate from their approach without losing their effectiveness anyway. Please move to the next post if you're not clearly seeing my point.

You're probably a joy at parties

There message is totally lost. Their fans on the the South Park subreddit are taking the wrong point from their attempt to approach the issue. Stop trying to think of this like a psychology 101 class and recognize people just lack basic human empathy
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Excellent discussion above.

I was initially defending South Park's framework of presenting two opposing ideas through comedy to non-judgmentally demonstrate how ridiculous both sides of any fence can look.

In this case, the bigoted perspective is presented as ridiculous, while the sporting regulation perspective is presented as an imperfect solution.

I had also forgotten their past commentary on this issue. The dolphin surgery episode indeed was predicated on an assumption that transitioning is an arbitrary choice, which is undisputedly a damaging, transphobic assumption (and factually incorrect). I fiercely despise anyone who holds such an assumption.

Initially, I questioned my own level of bias towards South Park in defending them. After much consideration, I realised my perspective is accurate.

The damaging underlying assumptions were not presented as arguments, opinions, or facts. If crazy beliefs exist, then South Park will observe and mock society for it. The damaging assumptions that form the basis of episodes do exist in society today, so South Park will present the ridiculousness of those situations.

Observational social commentary is from a bird's eye perspective. The intention is to mock society for their crazy beliefs. Matt and Trey are the aliens from episode 1, observing and concluding that cows are more advanced than humans. Every episode is written from the observational perspective of those aliens tut-tutting over the ridiculousness of this strange new species they've discovered.

I believe this is an accurate perspective of their work.

I also believe their approach can be an effective agent for positive change, and that's why people become disappointed when they fail to function as positive agents of change more consistently.

To that, I say they couldn't deviate from their approach without losing their effectiveness anyway. Please move to the next post if you're not clearly seeing my point.
Why don't you use your real account? What a fucking loser you are 😆 😆 😆
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
This dude is hilarious because he is basically one of the fart smelling characters from this show. He is one of the high IQ morons who loves Rick and Morty and thinks that by watching a cartoon it is somehow feeding his mind.

This episode fucked up because the guys writing it have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. They presented a stupid argument not to show how stupid it is, but because they believe it with their whole being. Trying to pretend otherwise, while saying it politely is just being transphobic without stepping on specific rules so you don't get banned.

Fucking clown.

PS. By hilarious I of course meant a fucking moron.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
This dude is hilarious because he is basically one of the fart smelling characters from this show. He is one of the high IQ morons who loves Rick and Morty and thinks that by watching a cartoon it is somehow feeding his mind.

This episode fucked up because the guys writing it have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. They presented a stupid argument not to show how stupid it is, but because they believe it with their whole being. Trying to pretend otherwise, while saying it politely is just being transphobic without stepping on specific rules so you don't get banned.

Fucking clown.

PS. By hilarious I of course meant a fucking moron.

They're absolutely one of those insufferable people who tries to write and talk in a manner to appear as their intelligent but in reality they just come off looking pompous. The moment they tried to lay down CBT as a method of discussing topics with different minded people it was a red flag they're a pseudo intellectual whose watched some YT Peterson videos and suddenly is enlightened to the world.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,945
Excellent discussion above.

I was initially defending South Park's framework of presenting two opposing ideas through comedy to non-judgmentally demonstrate how ridiculous both sides of any fence can look.

In this case, the bigoted perspective is presented as ridiculous, while the sporting regulation perspective is presented as an imperfect solution.

I had also forgotten their past commentary on this issue. The dolphin surgery episode indeed was predicated on an assumption that transitioning is an arbitrary choice, which is undisputedly a damaging, transphobic assumption (and factually incorrect). I fiercely despise anyone who holds such an assumption.

Initially, I questioned my own level of bias towards South Park in defending them. After much consideration, I realised my perspective is accurate.

The damaging underlying assumptions were not presented as arguments, opinions, or facts. If crazy beliefs exist, then South Park will observe and mock society for it. The damaging assumptions that form the basis of episodes do exist in society today, so South Park will present the ridiculousness of those situations.

Observational social commentary is from a bird's eye perspective. The intention is to mock society for their crazy beliefs. Matt and Trey are the aliens from episode 1, observing and concluding that cows are more advanced than humans. Every episode is written from the observational perspective of those aliens tut-tutting over the ridiculousness of this strange new species they've discovered.

I believe this is an accurate perspective of their work.

I also believe their approach can be an effective agent for positive change, and that's why people become disappointed when they fail to function as positive agents of change more consistently.

To that, I say they couldn't deviate from their approach without losing their effectiveness anyway. Please move to the next post if you're not clearly seeing my point.
This post is really getting me to think. Not about anything in the post, mind you, that's all some goofball shit.

But I'm now imagining that if you could get old timey highly influential racists in the scientific community and transport them to this time, they might post things like these. I'm talking like Georges-Louis Leclerc, Joseph Arthur de Gobineau, and Theodore Lothrop Stoddard. I'd bet that you'd see them in all the regular threads where the alts come out.
 

NeuroCloud

Banned
Jun 10, 2019
103
User Banned (2 Weeks): Being pedantic over multiple posts in a sensitive thread
giphy.gif


It's a transphobic episode of South Park. There's not much consideration needed. It emboldens and validates trash that hold transphobic views and rhetoric toward trans athletes. You can say it's actually mocking them but it's vapid at best when it perpetuates a view and sentiment that ultimately results in insults, threats and violence toward trans people in real life. One that sees trans women as men looking to trick or gain advantage over cisgender people.

Unless you're just saying 'South Park exists to do this', in which case I'm not sure why we needed a thesis. It's not an uncommon opinion. It's also not a validation or excuse for espousing transphobic views that are indistinguishable from people who view real life trans athletes as 'lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freaks'.


It's South Park, not Stonewall. People aren't disappointed, there was never any expectation of it effecting positive change.

Is it a transphobic episode or an episode of South Park doing social commentary on a transphobic society? That's what I'm hung up on.

If you are indeed correct and this episode does propagate hate due to an underlying bias within the writers, then I will absolutely condemn it. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Is it a transphobic episode or an episode of South Park doing social commentary on a transphobic society? That's what I'm hung up on.

If you are indeed correct and this episode does propagate hate due to an underlying bias within the writers, then I will absolutely condemn it. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from.

Did you find the episode transphobic or problematic? Just answer yes or no.

Not waxing poetic on what you think they're doing because of some BS. You're honest to goodness feeling.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,945
"Ah, this seems like a fantastic opportunity to show off on Era that I was in debate club in high school."
 

FormatCompatible

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,071
Excellent discussion above.

I was initially defending South Park's framework of presenting two opposing ideas through comedy to non-judgmentally demonstrate how ridiculous both sides of any fence can look.

In this case, the bigoted perspective is presented as ridiculous, while the sporting regulation perspective is presented as an imperfect solution.

I had also forgotten their past commentary on this issue. The dolphin surgery episode indeed was predicated on an assumption that transitioning is an arbitrary choice, which is undisputedly a damaging, transphobic assumption (and factually incorrect). I fiercely despise anyone who holds such an assumption.

Initially, I questioned my own level of bias towards South Park in defending them. After much consideration, I realised my perspective is accurate.

The damaging underlying assumptions were not presented as arguments, opinions, or facts. If crazy beliefs exist, then South Park will observe and mock society for it. The damaging assumptions that form the basis of episodes do exist in society today, so South Park will present the ridiculousness of those situations.

Observational social commentary is from a bird's eye perspective. The intention is to mock society for their crazy beliefs. Matt and Trey are the aliens from episode 1, observing and concluding that cows are more advanced than humans. Every episode is written from the observational perspective of those aliens tut-tutting over the ridiculousness of this strange new species they've discovered.

I believe this is an accurate perspective of their work.

I also believe their approach can be an effective agent for positive change, and that's why people become disappointed when they fail to function as positive agents of change more consistently.

To that, I say they couldn't deviate from their approach without losing their effectiveness anyway. Please move to the next post if you're not clearly seeing my point.
...Jesus, this fucking guy is a living embodiment of the "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty" copypasta.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Guys, keku's account is months old yet doesn't have 30 posts.

I don't think he's here in this topic arguing in good faith under their actual account.

And before anyone cries, I am not post shaming.
 

keku

Member
Apr 23, 2019
333
Guys, keku's account is months old yet doesn't have 30 posts.

I don't think he's here in this topic arguing in good faith under their actual account.

And before anyone cries, I am not post shaming.

Sorry just popping in to say I've been reading the other place and resetera for quite a while but yeah... I don't usually post. I did not come in bad faith to argue and this is my actual account.

While I'm at it, srlsly? I understand and reread your post. I over reacted and I'm sorry. I understand that I don't understand the struggle and I wasn't trying to drive by shit post, even if I fail to reason or comprehend I will always consider myself an ally and will do the necessary introspective so I can grow and outwardly express my support for the community.
 
Nov 3, 2019
2
User Banned (permanent): troll account
[MOD EDIT: Removed image]
OHHHHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
I AM THE CREAM OF THE CROP!!!!
THIS IS THE BEST EPISODE OF THE SEASON
OHHHH YEAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 3, 2019
2
Me and a cousin of mine used to be HUGE South Park fans way back when it was new. Our easily impressionable teenage brains thought it was the coolest shit ever!

After 3-4 years and it was no longer the hot new thing the appeal faded out for me and I stopped caring about it, but he continued to watch it.

Today he is a casually bigoted person with a shitty worldview on a bunch of things, and I can't help but think that South Park is at least partially responsible for it. He's become an insufferable shit and I can't stand him anymore. I don't even go to family gatherings when I know he's gonna be there.

So yeah, fuck you Parker and Stone, you privileged Libertarian pieces of shit.
LOL That's why PC babies are an analogy to people like you
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
26,635
Florida
The show has always catered to the "common sense" kind of audience. The kind of person who's like "he says he's a man but he menstrates, so let's mock people who try and stretch this into a truth".

You know: close minded assholes.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,844
Excellent discussion above.

I was initially defending South Park's framework of presenting two opposing ideas through comedy to non-judgmentally demonstrate how ridiculous both sides of any fence can look.

In this case, the bigoted perspective is presented as ridiculous, while the sporting regulation perspective is presented as an imperfect solution.

I had also forgotten their past commentary on this issue. The dolphin surgery episode indeed was predicated on an assumption that transitioning is an arbitrary choice, which is undisputedly a damaging, transphobic assumption (and factually incorrect). I fiercely despise anyone who holds such an assumption.

Initially, I questioned my own level of bias towards South Park in defending them. After much consideration, I realised my perspective is accurate.

The damaging underlying assumptions were not presented as arguments, opinions, or facts. If crazy beliefs exist, then South Park will observe and mock society for it. The damaging assumptions that form the basis of episodes do exist in society today, so South Park will present the ridiculousness of those situations.

Observational social commentary is from a bird's eye perspective. The intention is to mock society for their crazy beliefs. Matt and Trey are the aliens from episode 1, observing and concluding that cows are more advanced than humans. Every episode is written from the observational perspective of those aliens tut-tutting over the ridiculousness of this strange new species they've discovered.

I believe this is an accurate perspective of their work.

I also believe their approach can be an effective agent for positive change, and that's why people become disappointed when they fail to function as positive agents of change more consistently.

To that, I say they couldn't deviate from their approach without losing their effectiveness anyway. Please move to the next post if you're not clearly seeing my point.

OxUcCqN.gif


*10 second fart noise*

Anyway, a clip from the episode was the top video on my YouTube feed today so I checked it out. Unsurprisingly, it was just low effort transphobic fear-mongering. The comments section is predictably full of totally unique geniuses and definitely not wastes of good sperm. My history with South Park: found it painfully unfunny in the '90s when it was just swearing and scat jokes; was surprised to find it quite brilliant in the mid to late 2000s when it became more satirical; and then found it increasingly mealy mouthed and cowardly this decade, especially when it came to criticising Trump and the alt-right. Haven't watched it for a while. The thing is, for every well adjusted person I know who has enjoyed the show at some point or another, I know two more who are mean-spirited, galaxy brain edgelords whose whole worldview has been shaped by it.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,067
I don't think anyone finds anything insightful from South Park. At least I hope not...Yikes, if so. South Park has always been abrasive and, yeah, a bit offensive and controversial. It's to be expected after all of these years.

I haven't watched the episode, so I can't say if it goes too far or if it's really in poor taste. I'm of the belief that virtually anything can be funny, with the right tone, timing and delivery.

But jokes can go over the edge and come off as being hateful and mean spirited if handled poorly.

I have the same mindset. That said, I just finished watching the episode with my gf and I was confused. It just seemed like a weird punching down episode when they're better at punching up. Especially when the second story line was making fun of guys who don't think girls can do certain things.