Well, in that we agree, it's bullshit.
I was just genuinely ignorant and wanted to see the details.
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South Park mocks trans athlete with a transphobic episode
- Thread starter metalslimer
- Start date
Well, in that we agree, it's bullshit.
I was just genuinely ignorant and wanted to see the details.
AFAIK it was entirely directed at her shittiness and how it was ignored when she came out.
This is absolutely correct and could conceivably used to defend the concept of the Mrs. Garrison arc (though it's not funny at all) since Garrison has always been the second biggest piece of shit in the show. The difference with this new episode is that the bad actor they've seemingly concocted lines up with the same "men are infiltrating" bullshit that are used to actually hurt trans folk IRL. It's not recreating our current society, it's reinforcing it.
Yes, I've been made aware of this now.
From what I have learned of the episode from this thread, I'll agree with you that it's actually a detractor to "our current society" instead of a spotlight on issues.
From what I have learned of the episode from this thread, I'll agree with you that it's actually a detractor to "our current society" instead of a spotlight on issues.
Slowpoke had that big ass revolver to solve problems with. All the OTHER Mexican mice, in the other hand, were shown to be as shiftless and greedy as possible, if I recall correctly.
Of course, Speedy's popularity owns to the fact the most offensive stuff about him, his broken English and terrible Spanish, are absent in the Spanish dub. That, and that most of his cartoons involved him being pitted against stupid gringos (Sylvester and Daffy) and outwitting them through cleverness and not speed.
Yea there is some erm interesting stereotyping going on in those cartoons with the other Mexican characters. Like the cartoon where Speedy has to escort his two drunk friends home from a bar to ensure they don't get eaten by a cat.
It has been such a long time since I have seen Speedy, so I am going to take your word for it.
Lots of cartoons were racist af back then, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Sidenote does anyone care that the scenario they presented isn't even possible in real life because athletic commissions actually have rules for trans participation
South Park has had several transphobic episodes/moments so this isn't even the least bit surprising. Examples off the top of my head include:
-The episode where Kyle's dad "transitions" into a Dolphin
-The episode where Mrs. Garrison reverses her gender reassignment because she came to the conclusion that since she can't get pregnant that means she isn't a "real" woman
-The implication that Mrs. Garrison was being selfish for transitioning during the scene where Mr. Slave dumps her
-the scene from a few years ago where a mentally handicapped kid is raped in a public bathroom by a transwoman
-The episode where Kyle's dad "transitions" into a Dolphin
-The episode where Mrs. Garrison reverses her gender reassignment because she came to the conclusion that since she can't get pregnant that means she isn't a "real" woman
-The implication that Mrs. Garrison was being selfish for transitioning during the scene where Mr. Slave dumps her
-the scene from a few years ago where a mentally handicapped kid is raped in a public bathroom by a transwoman
Something being unsurprising doesn't mean it's not worthy of rebuke.
The current guidelines:
The current guidelines:
For sure, sorry - should have been more clear. Is a sentiment I'd seen in the thread and you just prompted me to speak to it.
They moreso mocked Jenner's car exploits, but considering Mr. Garrison spent several seasons as a trans woman wherein the joke was that any womanly aggrievement he felt (note: this is not misgendering, it's canon that Garrison had done it for frivolous reasons, regretted it, and wanted to go back, but couldn't because his testicles were destroyed by Kyle) was obviously absurd, the show is pretty committed to transphobia. This is less likely a specific commitment to trans hatred than to their general belief that anybody who cares a lot about anything, their gender identification included, is an extremist weirdo we should all be mocking, but still, the show has never been shy about using transness as a punchline.
Honestly, the show should have ended after the movie, which was the pinnacle of what they were trying to achieve with it. Them turning into whiny old dudes whose Libertarian leaning are increasingly out of touch with the mainstream has totally stained what could have been remembered as a classic of transgressive comedy.
Not that they're arguing in good faith to begin with, but holy shit the amount of South Park fans using "nuance" to deflect criticism in this topic is nauseating.
It's South Park. This is the show that ends most of its episodes with one of the creator's libertarian mouthpieces outright monologuing to the viewer what the intended message is. Fuck off with this nuance argument. There's never been anything subtler to a South Park episode other than "this thing is bad" or "both these things are bad."
It's South Park. This is the show that ends most of its episodes with one of the creator's libertarian mouthpieces outright monologuing to the viewer what the intended message is. Fuck off with this nuance argument. There's never been anything subtler to a South Park episode other than "this thing is bad" or "both these things are bad."
Not seen the episode but did see a clip that was uploaded to the south park YouTube channel and as expected it was awful, they seem pretty happy with them selves as they have even changed the channel picture to that of the character from the episode.
I mean in a way it's nice to see all of these morons feeding themselves into the woodchipper. Not as nice as it would be if they weren't transphobic dipshits in the first place, mind you.
For the record, the reason people hate this epsiode so much is that the answer to this is, well, no. For someone who wants to transition, they should be able to, because the vast, vast majority of cases in which transition is a bad idea are ones not where the person seeking care are cis.
Nobody transitions in order to grift. People who actually believe this is a regularly occurring case are promoting a view of trans society that even people presenting strawman versions of identity politics (and it's not that you don't see them, ELECT * MORE * WOMEN * FACISTS takes definitely exist in the wild a la the coup deposing Evo Morales) would say are completely false and do not hold up under scrutiny. If being transgender were a free paycheck, then nobody I know would be struggling as badly as they are.
The thing about being trans is that at the end of the day you have to assume someone who says they want to transition wants to transition, that someone who says they are a woman is a woman, and this is especially because these definitions are broad and cannot be verified from external knowledge beyond, say, someone being happier on hormones than not, because gender identity is a personal, internal thing. Hell, even if a notorious cheap hack grifter like Charlie Kirk, professional ADBF, decided one day that he would transition to prove something about trans dishonesty or how it's not really that hard being trans, I would assume that he knows enough about what he actually wants that I my first reaction would be that he was trying to redirect transphobic attacks but is legitimately, despite his claim, attempting to better live out the life the way he is most comfortable.
I once asked a trans friend about something related to this -- would it be worth intentionally misgendering the people who are complaining about pronoun-havers on Twitter? Her reaction was clear: of course not, it would mean that transgender identity would be something that we could disrespect as soon as it became politically inconvenient. It's never about just the one case, and it's certainly never just about the one case that people want to misrepresent and point and laugh at.
Again, the only people for whom transition is not justified are cis people; not seeking transition is something of a definition here. That is, people who do not need or want transition should not receive it, and anyone else should. If the point of the show is to suggest the athlete here had no need to transition, should not have transitioned, does not feel more human and fulfilled as a result of undergoing transition...then they have made an episode about trans issues that does not have a single trans character in it. Instead of centering issues that trans people experience, they center issues that transphobes lie about.
Having the focus of your show in 2019 not be actual transgender people but transphobic straw arguments, is bad.
I'm just sick and tired of this being trans representation. I want to see, and I want other people to see people who are like me out there just trying to live their lives, but all I get is straight up regurgitated terf talking points distilled into a character or drag queens. And that's what the average person thinks a trans person is now.
That potentiality has already been/is starting to be addressed in sports. As people have said there are already guidelines for multiple sports regarding trans inclusion which is why SP addressing this hypothetical is flat and insulting. It might as well be an episode about "hey what if a man really did want to rape a woman in a bathroom and crossdressed/pretended to be trans to do it? It could happen right?" It'd be different if there was actually an epidemic of transwomen's "genetic advantages" nullifying competition but there isn't. It's a TERF talking point with zero substance. All this allows it for people to pretend like this is something worth being concerned by to justify perpetuating trans exclusion until "we figure this all out".
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Been a long-time South Park fan and still love the majority of their episodes. I've actually been thinking this season has been a strong return to form for the most part. Then I saw on facebook them hyping up the newest episode and saw it was trans related and immediately thought, "fuck. There goes the season." There are other topics I tend to disagree with them on, but their previous attempts at working trans topics into their episodes have been so shitty, beyond other things they do.
The worst part is that regardless of their intentions (I honestly don't think they had great ones), I've seen some toxic ass people online praise the episode while dumping on trans people. So gross.
The worst part is that regardless of their intentions (I honestly don't think they had great ones), I've seen some toxic ass people online praise the episode while dumping on trans people. So gross.
User banned (1 month): Dismissing concerns around transphobia over a series of posts.
The subject doesn't really matter to me personally, the biggest crime is that episode simply wasn't funny. You can make fun of anything as long as it's entertaining and has a point, this did neither.
Eh, the show's always been hit or miss. When it hits it is great, when it misses it misses big.
Eh, the show's always been hit or miss. When it hits it is great, when it misses it misses big.
"bigotry is fine if it makes me laugh, or is simply entertaining"?
The point again is ignored because being outraged is just so fun.
I'm expecting I may get banned for it (again). I was considering posting examples of comedians 'crossing the line' with gender or race issues but it's pointless. Conversation here is impossible.
"Two people have called me out on my bigotry so conversation is impossible"
Conversation is going on all over this forum. Just not with bigots.
Do you know the dictionary definition of a bigot, which you have called me twice?
big·ot
/ˈbiɡət/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots
- a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
"don't let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of the city"
How about this one?
Excusing Transphobia is bigotry.
I didn't excuse it, I said it was a bad episode. They tried to be clever and failed, it was a poor subject and badly done.
I think the issue you have is that I said it is possible to make fun of anything and make it entertaining, which is true.
Plenty of people were entertained by minstrel shows. They were still racist and bigoted though.
I know, right? It's totally cool to be racist, sexist, xenophobic, and transphobic, as long as one's funny. I mean, sure, trans folks might be dying left and right due to rampant transphobia, but the biggest crime here is that they couldn't make you laugh.
When the whole center piece of your joke is centered on a central talking point of anti-trans people then your joke is lazy
I said it before and never got a response. Do you guys work from a checklist or do people just love pretending to be the victim?
PS. It's ok to have a blisteringly bad opinion. Next time be more entertaining when you squeeze it out.
I mean, you're basically admitting you came in here to stir shit up. You can try to make your point in good faith or you can continue to act like a victim in this discussion.
It's also not really true, because a lot of physical development of sex characteristics is motivated by a very small number of chromosomes in the first place.
Hormones have a significant effect on performance of athletes and can easily override any sort of genetic expression, which is why you hear about doping scandals in sport events so regularly but there's exactly one Caster Semenya right now (and the politics of calling her trans are fraught since, as I understand it, she is a woman who is AFAB intersex).
Fucking please. I told you what the fucking point was before you even posted in here. Either actually read the goddamn posts or shut the fuck up.
It's beyond infuriating that you are trying to make a martyr out of yourself in this thread, your agenda has been crystal clear from the moment you entered this thread.
There's also a bit of irony in someone saying "anything is game" followed by "oh no the mob has come after me"
Why are you upset about the 'mob' dunking on you? I think it's pretty entertaining, so it should be fine, right?
I can see that, I am playing victim. I don't hate transgender people on any level, I really don't. I regret if it came off that way. I just think Comedy (even poor attempts) shouldn't have limits based on what offends people.
the issue, and often is, when people get "outraged" is the attempts at the jokes are piss poor. They're bottom tier, edgy humor that has no actual thought put into them. To approach this extremely problematic topic from the most stereotypical anti-trans talking point is just bone headed and irresponsible on their part.
To expect a society that is continued to be brain washed by youtube personalities to find the nUaNcE in the joke is just deflecting criticism and blame.