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South Park mocks trans athlete with a transphobic episode
- Thread starter metalslimer
- Start date
Is it a joke? Naw, it's called nuance. Trust me, I know it's lost on some. It means you can write a character that's the representative character for a demographic and not have them be 100% in line with the majority of what that demographic may think, or in line with what the politically aware expects or wants them to think. Matt and Trey's message in that episode is illustrated by the events of the episode: gay character leading a boy scout troop, the town being uneasy with it, all while the "straight" scout leader is the real insidious piece of shit dealing with their kids. What Al thinks is totally his own opinion, no matter what we disagree with or what the episode very easily illustrated right before that moment. The message of the episode, despite Al deciding to go his own way, was pretty clear to be honest.
Lol that's a pretty meta South Park joke, nice. But yeah that Simpsons episode is pretty good for its time.
This. Parker's and Stone's style of bemused mockery might be suited to some things, but when they try to wade into anything that apparently warrants respect they tend to fuck it up, and I think it's because they feel too empowered to comment on things while not really being charged to actually 'care'. I think that and their libertarianism maybe point to some kind of gen X white boy thing where if you were like remotely decent in school or had some kind of special skill or wit you'd get all of the smoke blown up your ass. Like there's just something very basic and ill considered about this style of social commentary. But I wasn't actually very socially aware back then so idk, I just want to say that it's very 'typical' of them or something. This sort of gaffe seems like it belongs in another age.
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This thread is alarmingly true, in that people will continually overlook injustices and bigotry of all sorts, as long as they are kept entertained most of the time.
"Our mayor was trafficking drugs throughout our city for decades, but did you see that video of him falling down at the mcdonald's unveiling? Classic. I'll probably vote for him again."
Hell Chevy Chase still gets work.
Just saw the episode. Damn I really don't know what to think. The message is way too fucking muddled. Trans people have every right to feel offended until the SP people can laser focus whatever they're trying to say. Maybe they have nothing to say.
That episode was about gay marriage getting legalized in SF which was way long ago, it was a good episode but yeah, that whole twist is kinda gah in hindsight.
Meanwhile THIS SHIT is hack. Yes I know South Park is funny at times but fucks sake, this is just low hanging fruit. Not shocked they keep being this hack.
Except, he's clearly being a mouth piece for Matt and Trey's libertarianism? That's the complete opposite of nuance.
I've heard some bullshit takes, but "Welll actually, the two straight libertarian dudes writing their token gay character to espouse their own opinion that the rights of queer people are subservient to the rights of private orginizations is amazing nuanced writing" takes the fucking cake.
Just for reference, what are you referring to, the boy scout episode, or the one that just aired?
Perhaps you're right that Al takes a more libertarian stance when all is said and done, but you are completely discounting everything that happens before it, which is 90% of the episode.
Gotcha. Totally agree. If they were trying to make any kind of salient point they failed miserably.
If you meant the episode that brought up the Simpsons, I was talking about the Simpsons but I do remember SP having a gay marriage episode too but I dunno if that one was the mid 2000s or the big one in 2013.
The Big Gay Al episode is literally equivalent to someone saying "I support the gays" then turning around and saying "I think that baker should be allowed discriminate against gay people".
User Banned (2 weeks): Dismissal of concerns surrounding bigotry
South Park has never really seemed off on gay rights/issues/acceptance. In commentaries the two have talked about how they grew up with a lot of gay kids and they've never seen it as anything but normalcy.
The biggest issues SP has ever had was with their weird messaging on trans issues. I don't even think the two are transphobic(I don't think the garrison/dolphin stuff was even transphobic beyond being stupid, crude humor), they just can't make any good points on it.
Maybe you're right, but remember that Matt and Trey are completely fine with gay people. If the boy scouts want to do their quasi religious bullshit then we're all better for not joining them, and the message is more that you'll be consigned to history if you're not willing to update your views to accept widening demographics. They probably could have said it better, but the very fact that they painted the boy scouts as illogically homophobic throughout the whole episode sets an updated standard.
So if that baker is going to discriminate, more and more people of diverse and accepting philosophies won't go to that bakery. In that sense libertarianism does shut out socially and morally regressive businesses.
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User Banned (permanent): Transphobia
I think the message basically was "Different biological sexes are naturally better at different things, whether it's girls being better at boardgames, or males having a biological predisposition to excel at certain sports. All of these biological predispositions don't just disappear when a person changes their gender. For the longest time, our "PC baby" culture struggled with this, but this is indeed something that should be considered when we're all able to have a mature discussion about the matter."
No, that was my exact point:
You can't discount the 90% of the episode that fights homophobia, that's true, but you can't ignore the ending that defends and encourages the social structures that allow homophobia to flourish. They aren't two separate messages. The episode was, in essence, saying "I think it's wrong for a baker to refuse to serve queer people,, but anyone who tries to make laws protecting the rights of queer people to be served is just as wrong." It's a garbage message in its totality despite the initially positive beginning.
That's why, my point is, and always has been, that South Park's politics are garbage. They've done some good stuff, and have done good episodes, but that doesn't change who they are, nor that we should be surprised or try rationalizing when they have garbage takes.
As a fan of the show, I have no problem saying when they've fucked up and I never try to rationalize their bad takes. At least we can agree they've done some good stuff, as you just said.
Even so, Al's opinion in that episode in no way discounts the stuff before it. If I was gay, I would not go back to the scouts after all that if the leadership and many of the parents sending their kids there held those views, even if public opinion was forcing them to change. I just have a different take away for why Al came to the conclusion he did. I don't quite get the same libertarian message that you are getting from it. We may just have to agree to disagree there, because my main take away from that episode was that gay people would make fine leaders and being straight is clearly not the one qualification needed.
Except, on a factual, historical level, it doesn't. It's why laws and regulations are often necessary to enforce positive rights.
Matt and Trey are basically using the "the civil war and the civil rights era were bad, because the south would've magically become more progressive without anyone forcing them" argument.
Not just this show, the sickening reactions and excuses in this thread speak volumes about the transphobia and intolerance that is even endemic here.
And, as sure as the sunrise, here comes this bullshit, suspect train of argument for the billionth time. I swear, every dog on this forum should be stone deaf by now after how many times this whistle has been blown. 👎
Edit: It's worth pointing out, though, that the take quoted above is going to be the one reached by most of SP's viewers as to what the "message" really was. Let's not kid ourselves this isn't the conclusion Parker & Stone guide the audience to accept by exploiting incendiary transphobic tropes and imagery.
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You tagged the wrong quote to me. Also I disagree. You're asking marginalized people to not participate in society the same as anyone else.
That's exactly like saying Jim Crow laws are okay because non-racists and blacks can go to non-racist busineses.
I'm 100% not doing that.
I'm saying that one character came to that conclusion is alright for them, not everyone. We all have the right to take up the good fight as much as we can handle, and Al is perhaps too old fashioned to do so.
I think the person you were quoting was explaining what they thought South Park was going for, not they believed or agreed with it.
Thats from the episode where Kyle has plastic surgery to become a black basketball player and his dad becomes a dolphin. Can't remember the name of the episode. I always close my eyes during that scene. Can't take surgery footage.
Edit: "Mr. Garrison's Fancy New Vagina"
Re: the episode I've been discussing, I always figured in an episode called "Cripple Fight," people would take issue more with the cripple fight aspect than the anti-bigot message. I'm somewhat shocked at that.
Well I must say, they certainly make for a dispassionate and eloquent spokesperson for their transphobic views. They should consider applying for a position as Parker & Stone's official mouthpiece.
The issue is it doesn't work when the show's given too much credence to the very ideas they're lampooning. If they had trans-rights bona fides, then it would work. Even if they strove to establish those bona fides in the same episode, but they don't. They skip over that part and go to the part where they get to act like an authority on these questions.
User Banned (permanent): Transphobia
So when South Parks makes fun of trump it's cool, but when Trans people are the
I agree. Wheter we like or not, they are biological difference between the sexes. Look at NBA and WNBA basketball.
My bad. Not you. The show then. I don't think this was a nuanced take at all from the show. It's asking gays to accept less freedoms. To be seen as less than. That's not fair. It also comes off as disengenuous when it's a gay character as written by two straight white dudes saying this.
That's not nuance. That's deceitful.
I'm a fan of T&M's work. While I was originally repelled by South Park's crudeness and sophomoric sense of humor, once I watched enough episodes I had to concede that the show can be hysterically funny and has held up shockingly well after so many seasons (Remember when family guy was good? Yeah, me neither). Furthermore, their foray into broadway with the excellent Book of Mormon solidified their status as very talented writers in my eyes.
With that said, it was absolutely moronic for them not to believe in global warming or voting. I have no idea how someone so funny can be so very stupid and harmful. It truly boggles my mind!
Thinking that libertarianism is a valid political bent is also fabulously imbecilic. Libertarians don't seem to understand the basics of how the world works, or human history as a whole. It's like kindergarten-level understanding of things.
And that whole theme of needing "dicks" to fuck "assholes" in Team America was also stupid and wrong. Republicans are garbage through and through. They are not worthy of being compared to penises.
Now with regard to tonight's episode. I get that they were trying to say that there is nuance to things and that sometimes people don't acknowledge that and that they were not making fun of trans people (they did that with Mr Garrison a decade back) but their problem is that this episode should've followed one where they address the other, much more important half of the issue, which is that trans people are facing horrible discrimination. That's why they kill themselves in such staggering numbers. In that way, they punched down when they shouldn't have, and I thought the episode was not very good or funny.
With that said, it was absolutely moronic for them not to believe in global warming or voting. I have no idea how someone so funny can be so very stupid and harmful. It truly boggles my mind!
Thinking that libertarianism is a valid political bent is also fabulously imbecilic. Libertarians don't seem to understand the basics of how the world works, or human history as a whole. It's like kindergarten-level understanding of things.
And that whole theme of needing "dicks" to fuck "assholes" in Team America was also stupid and wrong. Republicans are garbage through and through. They are not worthy of being compared to penises.
Now with regard to tonight's episode. I get that they were trying to say that there is nuance to things and that sometimes people don't acknowledge that and that they were not making fun of trans people (they did that with Mr Garrison a decade back) but their problem is that this episode should've followed one where they address the other, much more important half of the issue, which is that trans people are facing horrible discrimination. That's why they kill themselves in such staggering numbers. In that way, they punched down when they shouldn't have, and I thought the episode was not very good or funny.
Quick, someone mention the Clintons. Gears will switch in their heads.
They're more interested in defending South Park, so they'll defend transphobia on the show's behalf. But they hate Clinton, so they'll suddenly start caring about transphobia. Trans issues are secondary to these dudes. It's really kind of crazy how easy it is to notice this when you start paying attention to it.
Can you explain it though, please? I want to add that I thought this was a bad, offensive episode but I am curious about your take all the same.
They will walk back on this like nothing happened in 10 years like they did with climate change and leftist economic concerns.
Sounds like Bill Maher and many other liberals. They'll be supportive of minorities and others until it starts inconveniencing them.
The issue's more dense than that. They'll be supportive of minoritis if it lets them hate somoene they were already predisposed to hate. The support of minorities is always, always secondary in their minds. It's a heirachy, a tier of priorities. In this tier, minorities are below South Park, but above [many examples].
I remember.
I also remember that one of the guys I was arguing with in that thread ended up posting a YouTube video as evidence that Wolfenstein was racist againsy white people. The YouTube channel has another video ragging about Zionists and was only subscribed to a channel on revisiting Hitler speeches.
I agree. Also Cody actually goes into this in the most recent episode of Some More News which made me immediately think of Maher WRT this thread (and many others) and how people can dismiss legit concerns as "outrage culture" or "political correctness" gone awry. If you haven't seen it already I'd recommend it.
Imagine typing this and not realizing you're a dumb piece of shit.
This just reminded me of a couple of dads i played games online with that started discussing what would happen when bad men start to enter women sports and beat them all cause of genetics. Seemed absurd but im not a dad. I still watch and like some episodes of South Park. This one was pretty bad, especially in the times we live in now where trans people are in a dangerous spotlight. The episode presents a Macho Man Randy Savage person that became trans just because of beating the shows representation of a Strong Woman in a strongarm competition. Its cringy. Maybe if they showed another transperson just competing alongside everyone it wouldve been better? I dont know, this episode seemed like they were out of their zone. These are the people that influenced a Trump regime, climate change and now spreading fear of trans people entering sports. Judging by this, it seems theyre just pieces of shit that just think that nothing is their fault cause you cant take a person who lives by a cartoon's message seriously.
It feels stupid that some badly animated drawings do influence or reinforce stupid, hateful people. People that defend their rights to bear arms in the name of a malignant sense of faith and conservatism. But these are the times we live in. Then again I might be wrong, Im not very smart.
It feels stupid that some badly animated drawings do influence or reinforce stupid, hateful people. People that defend their rights to bear arms in the name of a malignant sense of faith and conservatism. But these are the times we live in. Then again I might be wrong, Im not very smart.
Guess Stone and Parker thought they would have some sort of defendable high ground by making the trans athlete a hyper-bolic stereotype.
They just changed southpark's profile photo with Heather from this episode. It's pretty telling about the audience the kind of comments it's getting.
Like man, people still in 2019 act like real life Eric Cartman...
Like man, people still in 2019 act like real life Eric Cartman...
The radical feminist and conservative subreddits are having a huge jerk off because of this episode. South Park can claim it wasn't their intention to mock transwomen but clearly that's what people who hate transwomen are getting was the intention.
