Souls Veterans: What are your initial thoughts after playing Sekiro?

[Deleted member 34618]

Still fairly early in, but while I'm enjoying it I do have some issues:

The game doesn't explain its systems well enough. In the souls games everything is somewhat esoteric and impenetrable but in a more straight forward action game like this the lack of explanation often just feels like an annoying oversight rather than a deliberate choice meant to further enhance the atmosphere.

The stealth system is pretty bad. It's often unclear what causes enemies to see you and so far, at least nothing to find or unlock that makes that more clear or gives you more stealth options. Enemies also have basically zero situational awareness so you'll often have situations where a bunch of dudes are standing around talking, and you alert half of them and the other half just stand around even though the people they were talking with are now fighting an intruder 20 feet away. It reminds me of MMORPG encounter design where certain mobs are linked together rather than each enemy actually having its own awareness and AI and, like an MMORPG, seems to exist more to pad game length than make encounters interesting.

EXP/sen loss from dying is annoying. Since you can't recover it, the tension involved in making a corpse run from the souls games isn't present so all it does is make you have to set aside time to grind when you want to unlock more skills.

 

[Deleted member 24052]

EXP/sen loss from dying is annoying. Since you can't recover it, the tension involved in making a corpse run from the souls games isn't present so all it does is make you have to set aside time to grind when you want to unlock more skills.

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This has been my greatest gripe so far, actually. I get that it isn't strictly a "souls" game, but neither was Bloodborne in the same sense. I very much miss the souls/blood/exp recovery mechanic.

 

[Apple_Prince]

I never paired in any of the souls-borne series so the guarding felt funny to me for a bit, other than that the tone of the world is the same which i never get sick of, the combat plays like a less forgiving Batman Arkham asylum and has some neat weirdo moments on par with metal gear solid series. it's great.

 

[Gestahl]

This has been my greatest gripe so far, actually. I get that it isn't strictly a "souls" game, but neither was Bloodborne in the same sense. I very much miss the souls/blood/exp recovery mechanic.

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Yeah skill point cost increases gradually so by mid game you'll clear a zone, fill 2/3rds to 3/4ths of your bar and whoops it's time to grind out 1000-3000 exp since you'll lose everything you've earned to the boss/mid boss in front of you, necessitating even more grinding otherwise

 

[Black Chamber]

Death in this game, thus far, feels overly punishing. You lose so many resources upon death without any real way to get them back. Also the stacking of dragon rot, even when you don't revive, seems unnecessary. For a game that is about trial and error, they don't really give you any leeway.

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Well said 🤘🏻

 

[jviggy43]

My point was that the way in which the challenge is presented is different and that it doesn't incentivize me to get better at it because of it's seeming arbitrary nature; not that the game is tilted against the player (because obviously that's From's ethos).

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Seemingly arbitrary is a strange word to use, as I already stated the issues you were complaining about in sekiro arent anymore arbitrary than they are in dark souls. If you dont feel incentivized to get better that sounds like a personal issue rather than a gameplay one. From reading your posts in here it seems you havent been paying attention to the in game explanations or tutorials that teach you the mechanics, so maybe starting over on a new save would help refresh everything for you.

 

[Timewarp]

Going to read your entire post but I just want to know how the duck you beat the game twice already, it's been out like 3 days wtf

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Some people already beating this 2-3x a day

Spoiler: spoiler

to get different endings

, and to map out speed-run routes. I think the theoretically good run (so far) will be 1.5hrs. Speedruns already clocking in under 2hrs.

The game is difficult, but once you know what you need to beat a boss, it is a quick game to finish.

 

[jviggy43]

I'm honestly not really digging it as much as I'd like.

While I can see the merits in the combat system, the parry based system just doesn't click with me. I like moving and dodging a lot more. Which I understand that this is necessary but the parry is even more so due to the posture system.

Some of the bosses are really weak. There are a few that ride mounts that while not being very difficult themselves, the camera in the small, confined areas they put them in are the hardest part of these fights. I know that not having to compensate for multiple builds and strategies allows From to make more focused encounters, but I miss the ability to try new and different things and there are limited ways to handle bosses as a result.

Death in this game, thus far, feels overly punishing. You lose so many resources upon death without any real way to get them back. Also the stacking of dragon rot, even when you don't revive, seems unnecessary. For a game that is about trial and error, they don't really give you any leeway.

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Dragon rot builds up precisely because you are not reviving lol. I swear so much of the complaints are rooted in misunderstanding the game. It's like dark souls all over again.

 

[xChildofhatex]

I spent about 6 hours on this game today and I have to say that I like the map layout of Bloodborne and Souls games a lot more in comparison. I usually play as a parrying character and even so, I find the deflection mechanic a little inconsistent and unwieldy. You specifically have to train yourself to press one of 3 buttons depending upon the type of attack that's coming at you which puts the onus squarely upon your reflexes rather than just reading a boss' attack pattern.
Dragonrot is a really silly mechanic that wasn't needed at all and just makes me take less risks in a boss fight. I don't dislike Sekiro, quite the contrary, in fact but I feel like apart from the visceral feel of combat and maybe the story, everything else here is a step down from Bloodborne.

 

[John Rabbit]

Seemingly arbitrary is a strange word to use, as I already stated the issues you were complaining about in sekiro arent anymore arbitrary than they are in dark souls. If you dont feel incentivized to get better that sounds like a personal issue rather than a gameplay one. From reading your posts in here it seems you havent been paying attention to the in game explanations or tutorials that teach you the mechanics, so maybe starting over on a new save would help refresh everything for you.

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It's a problem with the game, again, not incentivizing me to do those things the same way previous From titles have successfully done. And arbitrary is in fact the right word to use. I spent focused time last time fighting the same progression of enemies repeatedly, to work out what worked/what didn't, and despite me executing nearly the same series of actions every time, there would be instances wherein something didn't work as it had repeatedly before, or I was not seeing (as in, the game was not providing me feedback; visually, textually, or intuitively) how I wasn't executing it correctly, AGAIN, as previous From titles have successfully done.

Also, this thread is about how we feel about the game, so whether or not my issues with it are personal and unique to me is irrelevant. It's how I feel about the game, but you seem intent on telling me my feelings about the game are wrong because I'm not 'good enough' to play it 'correctly'.

 

[Ringten]

So far I am liking it! I love the freshness that From brings to the genre: demon/dark souls, bloodborne and now sekiro.

Top notch work!

 

[Zukuu]

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Shuriken are great for enemies that jump through the air, the flame one combined with oil is great for the ogre and beasts, the firecracker is borderline broken. The flute is pretty handy sometimes, too. Without the umbrella, beating the guardian ape is almost impossible. Some are clearly better than others, but useless? Come on.

Well if you don't use the tools then yeah, your approach is limited for sure. Same with combat arts.

Some items are useless for sure, but the sugars? Divine confetti? Antidotes are vital, same with the stuff that gets rid of the terror effect.

Agreed on this one.

Yeah nah, phases are great.

No you can't in most cases, because they regain their posture too fast. Health is in the game to lower said posture regeneration. You can't be serious right now lol.

No you don't, only certain moves stagger, and different attacks deal different amounts of posture damage, sosometimes it can fill up pretty quick.


The game explicitly states that mashing will make the parry window smaller the more you mash.
These last 3 points come across as if you didn't get the combat at all.

That's a matter of taste for sure. I was more than happy with the tools upgrades and skills. In fact, I tried out more stuff in here than in a Bloodborne playtrhough where I deside whether I want to go strenght or skill and then just max my health/endurance and the skill in question.

Nonsense, sorry. The ashina skilltree is full of usefull stuff like Ichimonji or Ashina Cross, but you probably never even unlocked that because you didn't think these are useful enough to at least max out one of the first 3 skilltrees.

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Of course I tried the skills and tools and can safely say, they suck or don't add / change much.
It doesn't matter which you equip, a fight and your approach won't change drastically. Sometimes they do at least something, but not enough to call it a game changer. Most of them are far too slow, leave you too open and you get beaten out of it and against trash mobs you don't need them.
You absolutely won't suddenly beat a boss, because you now used another prosthetic. They are irrelevant for the most part. And before you now say "bull <> firecrackers", that's still a gimmick and not a big deal and still only one of the few exceptions.
Same for skills. The Nightjar slash is the only one that actually gives you a new attack pattern. All the rest don't do that much different compared just "attacking". And again, way too slow and you can be beaten out of them. Risk / reward is just terrible. Ichimonji is so useless compared to just hitting once or twice. It just takes too long.
And that skills and prothestics use ammunition is also a dumb idea. What's the point. I can see it for something like shurikens, but even those would be better with a CD instead.

Oh yeah, that sweet sweet antidote after exploring and killing off every enemy. Really rewarding...
Items sucks. You need a few, but that doesn't make them exciting to find. Divine Confetti is just a un-debuff so you can fight those headless. It has no other purpose in itself. There isn't even fire paper or something. No items, weapons or accessory to find. The few upgrade materials you find are also meh after a while.

No, 3 phases are dumb. Ape boss was dope - it added something. Also each phase only had 1 life - like it should be. Having to fight the first phase of endboss again adds absolutely nothing. It just makes retries tiring, since you have to spend that 1-3 minutes again and again just to get to the real endboss... It's terrible design.

 

[mxbison]

*shrug* The difficulty is part of the developer's vision for these games. The creator wants to make a game about overcoming great challenges and obtaining a feeling of satisfaction from it. That's the core vision. They also add to the atmosphere; all the horror trappings feel weak in an easy game since it's not really threatening.

If you want to play it your way and not the dev's way, you can always mod/cheat-engine it on PC, I guess.

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Different people have different abilities though. If you made a casual mode where the player takes a little less damage and the enemy attacks are slower that would still be plenty of challenge to overcome for people who right now just cannot beat the game and give up or don't even buy it in the first place.

It's a shame not more people can enjoy the amazing design of thes games and it seems that many From fans prefer it this way, which is incredibly stupid.

 

[Haze]

Dragon rot builds up precisely because you are not reviving lol. I swear so much of the complaints are rooted in misunderstanding the game. It's like dark souls all over again.

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I guess I should specify that it would make more sense for dragon rot to build up when you do use resurrect as opposed to just reviving at stones.

Not having the second chance removes a lot of tension in favor of pure punishment that according to people also becomes very trivial later on in the game. I get that From was trying to experiment with new things instead of copying over the Souls systems, but this is one where I don't feel like they executed well.

 

[Deleted member 37739]

It's not for me and in terms of game design, it's a big step down from Bloodborne. Still really solid and has a lot of potential but just too punishing, even for a long-tome FromSoft fan.

 

[ericsp17]

I really like it so far. Its very different and if you don't adjust to what the game is throwing down, it probably ain't much fun. I rage quit my second session with the game and wanted to be done with it. Taking a step back for a few hours did the trick and I made a bunch of early game progress.

 

[serdarkny]

It's such a big step up from their previous games that going back to souls combat in their next game will feel like a huge downgrade just like how it felt going to dark souls 3 from bloodborne. World and level design is great and reminiscent of DS1 in terms of how things are connected. I had mixed feelings about the story but later on I ended up liking it a lot and felt connections with some of the npcs (not with sekiro he's kinda boring). One bad thing is enemy re-usage but I guess that's a given in a From game. I don't think there is a single weak main-boss in the game, even the monkeys was fun and each encounter actually felt like facing a different enemy rather than the same dodge into R1 feeling the past games had. Also some people in this thread ranking this game without even beating it, now we can use this thread to call out on people in future threads that rank from software games.

 

[jviggy43]

It's a problem with the game, again, not incentivizing me to do those things the same way previous From titles have successfully done. And arbitrary is in fact the right word to use. I spent focused time last time fighting the same progression of enemies repeatedly, to work out what worked/what didn't, and despite me executing nearly the same series of actions every time, there would be instances wherein something didn't work as it had repeatedly before, or I was not seeing (as in, the game was not providing me feedback; visually, textually, or intuitively) how I wasn't executing it correctly, AGAIN, as previous From titles have successfully done.

Also, this thread is about how we feel about the game, so whether or not my issues with it are personal and unique to me is irrelevant. It's how I feel about the game, but you seem intent on telling me my feelings about the game are wrong because I'm not 'good enough' to play it 'correctly'.

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There is indeed a lot of subjectivity here, but I'm trying to understand your definition of incentivization and how its different here than it is the previous miyazaki games. With regards to arbitrary actions, this game requires reaction time in tenths of a second, I believe you when you say you think youre doing the same thing over and over again but I highly highly doubt thats the case, especially because youve admitted you didn't even read the tutorial notes that explain the game to you. If you can't even bother to do that how can you tell whether or not youre pressing the same input of buttons in reaction to the same types of attacks every single time? I don't have a lot of trouble with the game and I couldn't even say something like that for certain. I do agree that the feedback isn't like souls games-because it just happens far FAR quicker. But it isn't arbitrary, its there you just need split second reactions to it unlike souls which usually have long, slow wind up times that indicate whats happening here.

Youre more than in your right to discuss how you feel in this thread I'm not arguing that you aren't. However one's feelings on the game can be distorted if theyre not playing the game in an optimal, or even correct, manner. And from a lot of complaints on here that seems to be the case with people who have major issues with the game.

 

[AKingNamedPaul]

Nioh >> Sekiro.
Level design is the only aspect I think it beats Nioh. And I mean design, not variety.

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how so?

I feel like nioh never forced you to use any of the depth the combat could have had and most people kept it simple. The potential for the combat might get a nod to Nioh, but personally I enjoy the combat of Sekiro much more.

Boss fights/enemies?
Level design/reward of exploration?
story/setting/characters?

I'm not seeing any area where I preferred Nioh or that they even come close.

Actually Nioh allowed you to use various weapon types and customize gear which was awesome. That's all I got though. I was actively disappointed by the enemies/boss fights and level design though.

 

[Poimandres]

Some of the complaints here can also be levelled at Bloodborne. What exactly was the motivation to explore there? Some cosmetics? I actually feel like exploration is more wortwhile in Sekiro, because character upgrades are specifically tied to it.

I think it could use some other weapons, and there's no reason not to have some cosmetics for people who care (I don't tbh). Also yes, being a purely singleplayer game including a lower difficulty setting should have been a real consideration. If anything, it feels like the game hasn't shaken off enough of the Souls lineage.

But, all that said, I do love the savage feel of combat and quick pace. Atmosphere is impeccable and level design is amazing. It's more engaging to me then DS3 was, because that game was kind of tired.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

My entire strategy to beat Genichiro was saving emblems for his last phase where I used Mist Raven at every unblockable attack. I'm convinced most people used other things to beat him.

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I beat him straight up, i had 6 estus flasks though, and it probably took me about 90 mins. I got to the point where i could do no damage through the first two phases, but final form would just wreck me.

 

[Morrigan]

It's a shame not more people can enjoy the amazing design of thes games and it seems that many From fans prefer it this way, which is incredibly stupid.

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The challenge is part of this design that we enjoy, and that is not stupid at all.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Of course I tried the skills and tools and can safely say, they suck or don't add / change much.
It doesn't matter which you equip, a fight and your approach won't change drastically. Sometimes they do at least something, but not enough to call it a game changer. Most of them are far too slow, leave you too open and you get beaten out of it and against trash mobs you don't need them.
You absolutely won't suddenly beat a boss, because you now used another prosthetic. They are irrelevant for the most part. And before you now say "bull <> firecrackers", that's still a gimmick and not a big deal and still only one of the few exceptions.
Same for skills. The Nightjar slash is the only one that actually gives you a new attack pattern. All the rest don't do that much different compared just "attacking". And again, way too slow and you can be beaten out of them. Risk / reward is just terrible. Ichimonji is so useless compared to just hitting once or twice. It just takes too long.
And that skills and prothestics use ammunition is also a dumb idea. What's the point. I can see it for something like shurikens, but even those would be better with a CD instead.

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The Ashina Cross is absolutely a gamechanger for me. You can hold it indefinetly and let go the moment you want to strike. If you haven't seen it yet, it's basically the same attacj the ashina elite before the castle rooftop does all the time. It's great, honestly, and absolutely changed how I approached some fights.
Firecrackers are way too useful for too many fights in general, not just the bull. The umbrella asbolutely changes how you approach the guardian ape. The flame vent absolutely changes how you approach the ogre. The upgraded purple umbrella absolutely can change how you apprach headless/necromancer fights. The upgraded flute can have a nice impact on things as well. Sorry but it seems to me like you just never cared for any of this and just dismissed it/never tried it.

Oh yeah, that sweet sweet antidote after exploring and killing off every enemy. Really rewarding...
Items sucks. You need a few, but that doesn't make them exciting to find. Divine Confetti is just a un-debuff so you can fight those headless. It has no other purpose in itself. There isn't even fire paper or something. No items, weapons or accessory to find. The few upgrade materials you find are also meh after a while.

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Sorry but which items you found in BB were better? I don't like that confetti is a must have for some fights, but the very fact it is goes contrary to your point that all items you find are useless. Firepaper is the same thing, just that you don't need it. I fail to see how that's a better item to stumble upon. Again, what consumable items are in BB that are as important as say...purses in Sekiro? Everytime I found a purse I was happy because without them I would be broke way too often. Those alone are more useful than any consumable in BB.

No, 3 phases are dumb. Ape boss was dope - it added something. Also each phase only had 1 life - like it should be. Having to fight the first phase of endboss again adds absolutely nothing. It just makes retries tiring, since you have to spend that 1-3 minutes again and again just to get to the real endboss... It's terrible design.

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...every phase is part of the end boss...what are you talking about lol.

 

[FallenGrace]

Only played two hours so far. Love the art design and atmosphere but not super keen on the combat at the moment. Feels like it's just going to be a lot of trial and error for me.

 

[John Rabbit]

There is indeed a lot of subjectivity here, but I'm trying to understand your definition of incentivization and how its different here than it is the previous miyazaki games. With regards to arbitrary actions, this game requires reaction time in tenths of a second, I believe you when you say you think youre doing the same thing over and over again but I highly highly doubt thats the case, especially because youve admitted you didn't even read the tutorial notes that explain the game to you. If you can't even bother to do that how can you tell whether or not youre pressing the same input of buttons in reaction to the same types of attacks every single time? I don't have a lot of trouble with the game and I couldn't even say something like that for certain. I do agree that the feedback isn't like souls games-because it just happens far FAR quicker. But it isn't arbitrary, its there you just need split second reactions to it unlike souls which usually have long, slow wind up times that indicate whats happening here.

Youre more than in your right to discuss how you feel in this thread I'm not arguing that you aren't. However one's feelings on the game can be distorted if theyre not playing the game in an optimal, or even correct, manner. And from a lot of complaints on here that seems to be the case with people who have major issues with the game.

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Which is why I'm really trying to find out wtf happened in my first ~7 hours. I completely missed the Axe for two hours until I was SURE there was some other way to fight the shielded enemies (and saw something about an axe in a comment, but I try to play these games in a vacuum as much as possible). There's just something - or a collection of somethings - about this game that isn't working for me the same way past titles from From have done. I think Sekiro's margin for error is just so much smaller (and so much more insurmountable by brute force) than past From games, and apparently that was the line for me in terms of sticking with it/bouncing off of it. I still don't think the combat is particularly good at providing visual feedback of what's happening, but I'm beyond trying to explain why that is the case with me.

Some of the complaints here can also be levelled at Bloodborne. What exactly was the motivation to explore there? Some cosmetics? I actually feel like exploration is more wortwhile in Sekiro, because character upgrades are specifically tied to it.

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Clearly this comes down to personal taste at some level, but the art style/direction/environment design in Bloodborne was absolutely my top reason to explore. Beyond that, finding new items with lore attached to them, or a new weapon/item/trinket that could completely change your play style for the next several hours was another. I'm not finding that in Sekiro, personally. It looks nice, but it's working in a very (very) well-worn setting and theme. There just isn't...enough for me to really sink my teeth into.

 

[Deleted member 984]

The game feels most similar to playing through a Souls game or Bloodborne without leveling up

this true? Sounds like a mess in terms of progression :^S

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Nah it's not like Souls or Bloodborne. If you have played any action-adventure game you know what the progression loop is.

 

[ClarkusDarkus]

how so?

I feel like nioh never forced you to use any of the depth the combat could have had and most people kept it simple. The potential for the combat might get a nod to Nioh, but personally I enjoy the combat of Sekiro much more.

Boss fights/enemies?
Level design/reward of exploration?
story/setting/characters?

I'm not seeing any area where I preferred Nioh or that they even come close.

Actually Nioh allowed you to use various weapon types and customize gear which was awesome. That's all I got though. I was actively disappointed by the enemies/boss fights and level design though.

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Nioh > Bloodborne > Sekiro for me personally, Other than level design like the other poster said.

When you reached way of the Nioh difficulty then the skill required is far more deep than any souls games, Gear sets/Ethereal sets are so much fun to build around with weapon types, Re-rolling every stat in you're equipment is perfect, Paralysis build was my goto. Bosses were based on real lore i believe, Which adds more immersion and sense of realism.

Not to mention it had full co-op meaning you can do any mission together from the start without the need of summoning or summoner white glow, fogged out areas because didnt get a bonfire etc.

Only part about Nioh 2 i worry about is saturation, As we would have had Nioh, Onimusha remaster, Sekiro, GOT and then Nioh 2.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

A return to form for the Tenchu series, and I couldn't be more pleased.

 

[Civilstrife]

It's forcing me to engage with combat mechanics I shied away from in other From games and I appreciate it.

 

[mxbison]

The challenge is part of this design that we enjoy, and that is not stupid at all.

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Which would not be effected by an easy mode you'd never have to touch.

 

[Zukuu]

The Ashina Cross is absolutely a gamechanger for me. You can hold it indefinetly and let go the moment you want to strike. If you haven't seen it yet, it's basically the same attacj the ashina elite before the castle rooftop does all the time. It's great, honestly, and absolutely changed how I approached some fights.
Firecrackers are way too useful for too many fights in general, not just the bull. The umbrella asbolutely changes how you approach the guardian ape. The flame vent absolutely changes how you approach the ogre. The upgraded purple umbrella absolutely can change how you apprach headless/necromancer fights. The upgraded flute can have a nice impact on things as well. Sorry but it seems to me like you just never cared for any of this and just dismissed it/never tried it.



Sorry but which items you found in BB were better? I don't like that confetti is a must have for some fights, but the very fact it is goes contrary to your point that all items you find are useless. Firepaper is the same thing, just that you don't need it. I fail to see how that's a better item to stumble upon. Again, what consumable items are in BB that are as important as say...purses in Sekiro? Everytime I found a purse I was happy because without them I would be broke way too often. Those alone are more useful than any consumable in BB.


...every phase is part of the end boss...what are you talking about lol.

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Nah. A 100% rehash of the previous boss encounter just to make him do his transformation to the real endboss is not "part of the boss". Been there, done that. No need to repeat it. It's utterly free and apart from a stray hit or two, never a challenge or adds anything but time when you get to the real deal.

Again, the prosthetics don't serve much of a purpose compared to the base gameplay of parry-jump-dodge-attack. Axe does just a bit more stagger, but doesn't alter your gameplan. Umbrella is just a different defense mechanism that doesn't serve a real purpose otherwise. Guardian Ape with Flamevent + Fireblade does make phase 1 incredibly easy, but that still doesn't alter your gameplan like a different weapon in a Dark Souls game would do. You just deal a bit more damage - the rest basically stays the same. They should have made these work on a CD or without ammunition (at least some of them like the spear or axe) and work them more into your moveset, instead of always being just "tool - sword hit". e.g. Spear from jumping could have been an impalement, spear from a dodge could have been the cleave, Spear from a sprint could have been the charge, charging it could have been the Storm variant etc. But nope - all of them function the same, exact that you have to manually change / equip them... It just felt very limiting in how you can actually use them. They are also way too slow for the most part for the flow of the game and don't offer much advantage. Risk / reward is just not good enough for the spear / axe for instance.

The same goes for attacks. Why can you only have 1? Why not have passives that add moves or have different moves for different attacks (sprint, jump, combo etc etc etc). You have a single attack button and thus a single moveset. Not even Heavy and Light variations. It's basically half of any of the hundreds of Soulsborn weapons. In Bloodborn yo had few weapons, but each of them had a huge depth to it... in Sekiro you have R1 and can do nothing else when it comes to attack. They had a big hard-on focus on the parry bar and not much else.

 

[Tophat Jones]

Which would not be effected by an easy mode you'd never have to touch.

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That is simply not the game From wants to make. Overcoming the challenge of their games is part of the experience, it is built into the DNA.

I mean it's been brought up a million times at this point, but it's like asking why CoD isn't single player only.

 

[semiconscious]

Yeah skill point cost increases gradually so by mid game you'll clear a zone, fill 2/3rds to 3/4ths of your bar and whoops it's time to grind out 1000-3000 exp since you'll lose everything you've earned to the boss/mid boss in front of you, necessitating even more grinding otherwise

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yep. if nothing else, just allow the player to bank skill points. both this & the dragon rot mechanic are seriously questionable. & people thought bloodborne's blood vial mechanic was questionable :) ...

 

[Deleted member 8861]

A game doesn't always have to appeal to as broad an audience as possible, it can be niche and that's OK.

I wouldn't say no to a mode specifically geared towards accessibility though.

 

[John Rabbit]

That is simply not the game From wants to make. Overcoming the challenge of their games is part of the experience, it is built into the DNA.

I mean it's been brought up a million times at this point, but it's like asking why CoD isn't single player only.

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CoD ditched single-player for business reasons, the two situations aren't remotely analogous.

There's literally nothing to be lost by having an easier difficulty in a From game. It wouldn't affect the players who want to play it the "real" way, and it would allow other players with less skill/time/desire/patience/etc to experience the other facets of the game without putting such huge barriers.

 

[Field]

Is it really a lot like character action game? Never liked those much. I've tried and given up on DMC, Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden. Previous souls games are some of my favourite games ever though.

 

[RedMercury]

The combat has me stumped a bit, it's not really clicking for me. I died to the General, one of the first hard dudes in the game, like 15 times. I felt like I was doing what the game wanted me to by blocking the best I could and trying to parry, but then I guess my guard would break and I'd be screwed. I didn't even know if I was doing perfect parries or not, if I was it didn't seem to help much. I did beat him finally by blocking a swing and dodging for the rest in the sequence. I know what the yellow bars are for now but they seem inconsistent with when the enemies guard breaks, like the bar doesn't really matter that much.

 

[Tophat Jones]

CoD ditched single-player for business reasons, the two situations aren't remotely analogous.

There's literally nothing to be lost by having an easier difficulty in a From game. It wouldn't affect the players who want to play it the "real" way, and it would allow other players with less skill/time/desire/patience/etc to experience the other facets of the game without putting such huge barriers.

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You misread my post regarding CoD.

And of course there is something to be lost, the whole point of the game, even the narrative, is that it is super hard and you will die a bunch of times. It's all about overcoming the challenge. The game changes completely if you die a half dozen times through a whole run and never have to explore or backtrack any locations because you just mow through everything. Now you can say that you don't care and you just want to run through the game story wise and see all the bosses, that's fine. But it's completely false to say that it changes nothing. That is not the product From wants to sell to you, to them it's a lesser experience.

 

[mxbison]

That is simply not the game From wants to make. Overcoming the challenge of their games is part of the experience, it is built into the DNA.

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Sure, and when someone wasn't able to overcome the challenge he could grind some levels or even summon other player's to help him with a boss.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I like the game a lot. There's certain things I like more in other souls games, but there's definitely others that I like more in this. Same with comparing Bloodbourne and Dark Souls. Or Dark Souls and Demons Souls. Overall I do find the game easier than their previous games. Dark Souls 2 still kicks my ass

 

[Tophat Jones]

Sure, and when someone wasn't able to overcome the challenge he could grind some levels or even summon other player's to help him with a boss.

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And now they've made a single player driven experience with more cinematic bosses that could never be done in co-op setting, and more of a narrative.

So yea, From has great range in the types of games they are able to make. They are not all the same, thankfully.

 

[Deleted member 25117]

My entire strategy to beat Genichiro was saving emblems for his last phase where I used Mist Raven at every unblockable attack. I'm convinced most people used other things to beat him.

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I just countered his lightning attack and parried and countered everything else since his regular moveset doesn't change much from the previous phases.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Dragon rot builds up precisely because you are not reviving lol. I swear so much of the complaints are rooted in misunderstanding the game. It's like dark souls all over again.

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Lol all you want, but I didn't get that either.
This mechanic is highly questionable. The game punishes you for dying (which will happen a lot) by killing off NPCs. That seems unfair. And please don't tell me to git gud.

 

[John Rabbit]

You misread my post regarding CoD.

And of course there is something to be lost, the whole point of the game, even the narrative, is that it is super hard and you will die a bunch of times. It's all about overcoming the challenge. The game changes completely if you die a half dozen times through a whole run and never have to explore or backtrack any locations because you just mow through everything. Now you can say that you don't care and you just want to run through the game story wise and see all the bosses, that's fine. But it's completely false to say that it changes nothing. That is not the product From wants to sell to you, to them it's a lesser experience.

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There's nothing to be lost from the player's experience. If From thinks making their games impenetrably hard is somehow "core" to experiencing literally everything in their games, then honestly that's pretty stubborn of them. They can deliver that punishment while also providing an easier way to be a content tourist that doesn't diminish anybody's respective experience.

 

[mxbison]

And now they've made a single player driven experience with more cinematic bosses that could never be done in co-op setting, and more of a narrative.

So yea, From has great range in the types of games they are able to make. They are not all the same, thankfully.

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Just saying that this "From vision" people keep talking about did have mechanics to help struggling players in the past.

 

[Punpun]

It didn't pull me in in the same ways the Soulsbourne games did ... yet.

 

[ninjabot]

I like it... but I'm afraid I only like it because of how similar it is to the Soulsborne games and its scratching an itch I've been wanting scratched. I do think that there's not enough reward for the difficulty. That there are some things that are just arbitrary. Like, Dragon Rot fucking sucks. It just adds annoyance to something that didn't need to be. Dying against enemies is it's own punishment because it blocks you from progressing through the game. There was no need to set it up so that once you finally progress, you still have a lasting punishment from all the times you died previously.

Yes, I know you can cure it... but then what was the fucking point in the first place?

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Nah. A 100% rehash of the previous boss encounter just to make him do his transformation to the real endboss is not "part of the boss". Been there, done that. No need to repeat it. It's utterly free and apart from a stray hit or two, never a challenge or adds anything but time when you get to the real deal.

Again, the prosthetics don't serve much of a purpose compared to the base gameplay of parry-jump-dodge-attack. Axe does just a bit more stagger, but doesn't alter your gameplan. Umbrella is just a different defense mechanism that doesn't serve a real purpose otherwise. Guardian Ape with Flamevent + Fireblade does make phase 1 incredibly easy, but that still doesn't alter your gameplan like a different weapon in a Dark Souls game would do. You just deal a bit more damage - the rest basically stays the same. They should have made these work on a CD or without ammunition (at least some of them like the spear or axe) and work them more into your moveset, instead of always being just "tool - sword hit". e.g. Spear from jumping could have been an impalement, spear from a dodge could have been the cleave, Spear from a sprint could have been the charge, charging it could have been the Storm variant etc. But nope - all of them function the same, exact that you have to manually change / equip them... It just felt very limiting in how you can actually use them. They are also way too slow for the most part for the flow of the game and don't offer much advantage. Risk / reward is just not good enough for the spear / axe for instance.

The same goes for attacks. Why can you only have 1? Why not have passives that add moves or have different moves for different attacks (sprint, jump, combo etc etc etc). You have a single attack button and thus a single moveset. Not even Heavy and Light variations. It's basically half of any of the hundreds of Soulsborn weapons. In Bloodborn yo had few weapons, but each of them had a huge depth to it... in Sekiro you have R1 and can do nothing else when it comes to attack. They had a big hard-on focus on the parry bar and not much else.

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And nothing in DS or BB change the base gameplay of rolling and attack, outside of magic....see how that works?

I don't particulary like the spear and axe either, nor the poison katana.

When it comes to the weapon moveset: That's the thing though, obviously a BB weapon has more depth to itself, than the katana. But the way combat works and your moveset are more varied. You have to jump over things which can lead into a pounce on the head and some airslashes, you can counter thrusts by dodging into the attack, you can stealth kill people and turn them into your puppets if you want to.
The parry bar was their best decision yet. There is a lot of decisionmaking at work here. Considering whether the enemy posture is regenerating slow enough for you to regenrate your own by faling back and holding block, or go all in with a full posture meter perfect parrying everything. It creates a dynamic instead of hitting something 3 times before disengaging again to let the stamina fill up.
Every single base enemy encounter in Sekiro is more fun to approach (especially stuff like the samurai guys, purple ninja guys and crow assasins, all in the upper castle) than most of the stuff in BB. Like, every encounter is multitudes more engaging.

I love my Whirlgig Saw or Cane, but I never did more than 2 or 3 attacks with them, either. In the case of the Whirlgig I didn't even use one of the transformations for obvious reasons.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

Dragon rot builds up precisely because you are not reviving lol. I swear so much of the complaints are rooted in misunderstanding the game. It's like dark souls all over again.

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And that's stupid. Game's punishing you for dying, which would presumably make you die more.

It would be far, far more interesting if it was the other way around and dragonrot increased when you decided to resurrect instead.

 

[hey it's that dog]

Lol all you want, but I didn't get that either.
This mechanic is highly questionable. The game punishes you for dying (which will happen a lot) by killing off NPCs. That seems unfair. And please don't tell me to git gud.

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How many of your NPCs have died?

And that's stupid. Game's punishing you for dying, which would presumably make you die more.

It would be far, far more interesting if it was the other way around and dragonrot increased when you decided to resurrect instead.

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Dragonrot does not make you die more except in the trivial sense of you losing some xp and money slightly more often than you otherwise would upon death.

That in turn could be weakly correlated with slower progress through the skill tree. But if you don't have strong fundamentals, new skills aren't going to make the game any easier.