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Sorry, but Mario Sunshine is Incredible.
- Thread starter NuclearCake
- Start date
That video OMG! yeah it's a great Mario game for sure I'd look a remake for sure but Thousand Year Door first
It's a beautiful game with great controls and the bonus levels have some really great level designs.
The actual worlds though - they don't. There's a lot of shoddy design there that ultimately pulls the game down to be the worst 3d Mario game out there. To me this definitely shows that they needed to get this game out fast and they probably didn't have the time to polish it as they normally would.
Focusing on a small video to make the case for Sunshine being amazing isn't really fair - you need to look at the whole game, cause there's greatness in Sunshine for sure and it could've been an amazing game, but the lack of polish is very, very evident.
The actual worlds though - they don't. There's a lot of shoddy design there that ultimately pulls the game down to be the worst 3d Mario game out there. To me this definitely shows that they needed to get this game out fast and they probably didn't have the time to polish it as they normally would.
Focusing on a small video to make the case for Sunshine being amazing isn't really fair - you need to look at the whole game, cause there's greatness in Sunshine for sure and it could've been an amazing game, but the lack of polish is very, very evident.
I wonder if the people who praised this game in this thread wholeheartedly actually played through its entirety in the last couple of years or if their memory is somehow... inked (sorry).
Around two years ago I played through it in one sitting with 100% (as a kid I only got 119 shines, because of some stupid missing blue coins) and although I really liked it - mostly because of its movement mechanics and the mostly beautiful and fun landscapes - it has some of the most obvious flaws I have witnessed in a Mario game.
The janky camera, 30 fps and blue coins collectathon already have been mentioned here enough. But if you dig deeper the levels goals and the level design really don't hold up. First of all, the level design is far too vertical most of the time. There are so many instances, where you have climb up in a level and where a fall is not a simple Game Over (which would have been far more forgiving), but simply tedious, because you end up in a place where you'll have some trouble reaching the point where you can start climbing up AGAIN. It's just frustrating in a lot of instances.
Also, the level goals are far too repetetive and really not interesting in terms of pure plattforming - sure you have the Flood-less levels which are great, but they make up only a small fraction of the game. I would have loved more shines like the rollercoaster ride, but instead when I think of the game there pop up dozens of level goals that are just not fun and play themselves very slowly.
I mean: the fish made out of red coins, the throwing challenge, escorting the water melon through the beach? Geez... even thinking of them makes me feel exhausted!
It's a good game for sure, but people praising it as some sort of masterpiece are insane!
Around two years ago I played through it in one sitting with 100% (as a kid I only got 119 shines, because of some stupid missing blue coins) and although I really liked it - mostly because of its movement mechanics and the mostly beautiful and fun landscapes - it has some of the most obvious flaws I have witnessed in a Mario game.
The janky camera, 30 fps and blue coins collectathon already have been mentioned here enough. But if you dig deeper the levels goals and the level design really don't hold up. First of all, the level design is far too vertical most of the time. There are so many instances, where you have climb up in a level and where a fall is not a simple Game Over (which would have been far more forgiving), but simply tedious, because you end up in a place where you'll have some trouble reaching the point where you can start climbing up AGAIN. It's just frustrating in a lot of instances.
Also, the level goals are far too repetetive and really not interesting in terms of pure plattforming - sure you have the Flood-less levels which are great, but they make up only a small fraction of the game. I would have loved more shines like the rollercoaster ride, but instead when I think of the game there pop up dozens of level goals that are just not fun and play themselves very slowly.
I mean: the fish made out of red coins, the throwing challenge, escorting the water melon through the beach? Geez... even thinking of them makes me feel exhausted!
It's a good game for sure, but people praising it as some sort of masterpiece are insane!
Its a great game deserving more praise than it gets, suffers the same fate many sequels to critically acclaimed games have, trying to live up to an enormous hype only to be hated because it doesnt quite reach those heights but is still damn good, I enjoyed it a lot back then when it launched and I still do
This might be true if it wasn't broadly considered the worst in the series even when contextualized by all the new releases :P
I enjoyed it when I was a kid, but I don't think it holds up to scrutiny.
Nah. The game just never resonated with me. I hate the aesthetics and there is like 0 fucking variety in the environments.
I find these opinions a bit contradictory, or maybe I'm misunderstanding something. You're disappointed by the linearity of Galaxy's levels, but your favourite part of Sunshine are the linear levels?
Nah mate, is mediocre trash.
The only good thing about it is Koizumi actually being awesome and learning from his mistakes in this game.
And if there one think i will never undertand, is the Odyssey haters putting it below this piece of trash.
The only good thing about it is Koizumi actually being awesome and learning from his mistakes in this game.
And if there one think i will never undertand, is the Odyssey haters putting it below this piece of trash.
Preach it!
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I love the game in spite of all of its jank. It just oozes with an atmosphere that no other Mario game comes close to matching. Mario moves so smoothly and it's fun to just go and explore.
I replayed it recently and mostly enjoyed it. The camera is awful though, but then again I can't think of a game from that era that didn't suck in this regard.
A remaster could do wonders for this game.
I replayed it recently and mostly enjoyed it. The camera is awful though, but then again I can't think of a game from that era that didn't suck in this regard.
A remaster could do wonders for this game.
A bold statement, but I agree with it. And I actually liked the FLUDD mechanics.
Those fludless bonus stages in sunshine are the best 3D platforming of all time. It's probably the best controls in a 3D space too with the sick response. Ninja Gaiden black is second
The moon comparison is relatively apt, the star one isn't. And even moons don't take you randomly spraying a beach in hopes you'll get a blue coin. And while there are too many moons, none of them were as tedious to collect as the blue coins.
Yes they are larger, and some are actually pretty good, but some aren't. The hotel is undercooked and has barely anything in regard to platforming. The one with the giant mushrooms was equally undercooked. All I remember from that one were bad Yoshi segments and way too long hover platforming between the mushrooms.
Personally I had 10 times more fun with Wind Waker than with Sunshine.
OP
OP
Mario Odyssey had moons that locked you into a conversation for several minutes to receive them all. It had moons that were stuck inside rocks that you had to pointlessly kick, and you didn't even know which rocks had moons in them or how many kicks it would take to make the rocks break. It had moons that were hidden in a random part of a stage which you had to ground pound...etc. Now i didn't mind these, since this is a collectathon, it comes with the territory. But it's disingenuous to call nothing in Odyssey as tedious as some of the Blue coins were in Sunshine. At worst there were about 30-40 cryptic Blue coins out of 240. Most of them are simple to find. The complaints about them never made sense to me.
In Mario 64 the stars are the exact same thing. You go to one part of the level collect a star then go to another part of the level to collect another star. Most star objectives in 64 were pretty basic, and that's obvious because you can complete a single world in 64 in about 10-15 minutes completely. In terms of complexity most of them were just as simple to find as most of the Blue coins were or many of the Moons in Odyssey. Again this is not a bad thing but the similarity between these is undeniable.
You didn't need to hover across the mushrooms in Pianta Village and Sirena Beach was probobaly the best Ghost stage in the entire series. There were a few camera flaws in that one but it was fun exploring the hotel. It was Big Boos Haunt but significantly expanded.
Oh and i completely disagree with you on Wind Waker. While it wasn't as tedious as Majoras Mask, and not as awful as Skyward Sword. The whole game was mechanically so simple that i'm amazed that Nintendo didn't expand the core much further from OOT, despite the long time gap between releases. Ironically i had the most fun in the Wind Waker collecting the Triforce Pieces because, the game finally allowed you to explore the sea freerly, and didn't railroad you into bland dungeons. After playing BOTW extensively, i find it impossible to go back to any of the previous 3D Zelda games. They were fundamentally flawed. In contrast all 3D Mario games are still fun despite Odyssey being the best one.
Nah, the level-design in some stages is really mediocre (not to mention entire areas that kinda suck) and with that camera? I still like it, but it's got the most issues of any 3D Mario. I'd love a remake that fixes all the issues though, but as it is, it's the bottom of 3D Mario.
I'd rank 'em (best to relative worst) 3D World > Mario 64 > Galaxy > Galaxy 2 > Odyssey > 3D Land > Sunshine
I'd rank 'em (best to relative worst) 3D World > Mario 64 > Galaxy > Galaxy 2 > Odyssey > 3D Land > Sunshine
I hate Mario Sunshine, which is a weird thing to say about a mainline Mario game, for me, but here we are. I hate its aesthetics, music, and level design. And the voice-acting. And the camera. The only thing good about it are the actual movement mechanics. It needs a re-do, not a remake.
I love Sunshine, but I've never gotten every Star (Shine, whatever) because the blue coin collecting is some bullshit.
Even the shittier regular Shines are doable for me, but those blue coins just suck. Too many that are found in practically invisible places that you just have to spray and hope to get one, too many "these ones are only available on this specific Shine in this specific level", and just way too many of them overall.
I don't know what it was about Nintendo in the Gamecube generation, but they just loved their stupid busy-work fetch quests in their games. At least the Blue Coins weren't required, but there's the map/triforce hunt in Wind Waker, and the collectible hunts in both Metroid Prime 1+2 (Prime 3 had it too, but I found it less tedious).
Still, I love the game and it's summer-y vacation atmosphere, just a fun game except for a handful of stupid Shines here or there (and the previously mentioned Blue Coins).
Barfing Yoshi never gets old for me either.
Even the shittier regular Shines are doable for me, but those blue coins just suck. Too many that are found in practically invisible places that you just have to spray and hope to get one, too many "these ones are only available on this specific Shine in this specific level", and just way too many of them overall.
I don't know what it was about Nintendo in the Gamecube generation, but they just loved their stupid busy-work fetch quests in their games. At least the Blue Coins weren't required, but there's the map/triforce hunt in Wind Waker, and the collectible hunts in both Metroid Prime 1+2 (Prime 3 had it too, but I found it less tedious).
Still, I love the game and it's summer-y vacation atmosphere, just a fun game except for a handful of stupid Shines here or there (and the previously mentioned Blue Coins).
Barfing Yoshi never gets old for me either.
It's got some flaws for sure, but even then, it's an amazing game.
It really deserves a remaster... or a sequel.
It really deserves a remaster... or a sequel.
I have to disagree completely. True story. I bought a Gamecube online from Gamestop.com with Super Mario Sunshine. I bought the console just for that game. I was really excited and I loved Mario. It was also one of my first online purchases so I thought it was kind of neat that I was getting it mailed. I was really excited getting this package at my house and opening it. I played the game and man I thought it was just really bad. I couldn't even play through it or pass the first couple of levels. I like all the other Mario's a lot better and Sunshine is the worse one. My preference of course.
I haven't played Sunshine, but what I could tell from watching Giant Bomb's Steal My Sunshine is that the game has some great mechanics that are wrapped inside a shitty game.
Nah fam.
Played it to 100% completion for the first time this year and it's easily the worst 3D Mario.
The level design just straight up isn't very good. A lot of the sandboxes are built way too vertical for no good reason, which is too punishing if you miss a jump and have to climb all the way back up.
The controls are slippery and the camera feels like it's fighting against you. Like sure, with precise inputs and memorisation you can pull off stuff like the video in the OP, but for a general playthrough that is irrelevant. Just look at the whack physics of the pachinko level or the boat/lilly pad rides. Not to mention how weird and floaty Yoshi is to control. I died many times on the final boss due to the terrible physics of the falling rocks and the single digit framerate too.
Even the progression of the game is straight up broken. There's 120 shines but it's literally just 50 required ones and 70 filler ones due to how you unlock the final area and boss. You can't tackle different challenges each playthrough and skip different areas, it's very black and white in what is required and what isn't.
Played it to 100% completion for the first time this year and it's easily the worst 3D Mario.
The level design just straight up isn't very good. A lot of the sandboxes are built way too vertical for no good reason, which is too punishing if you miss a jump and have to climb all the way back up.
The controls are slippery and the camera feels like it's fighting against you. Like sure, with precise inputs and memorisation you can pull off stuff like the video in the OP, but for a general playthrough that is irrelevant. Just look at the whack physics of the pachinko level or the boat/lilly pad rides. Not to mention how weird and floaty Yoshi is to control. I died many times on the final boss due to the terrible physics of the falling rocks and the single digit framerate too.
Even the progression of the game is straight up broken. There's 120 shines but it's literally just 50 required ones and 70 filler ones due to how you unlock the final area and boss. You can't tackle different challenges each playthrough and skip different areas, it's very black and white in what is required and what isn't.
A decade plus after this comes out and people are now praising it? Of course. This is hands down the worst Mario game. Worst camera, worst antagonist, and worst new characters added to the franchise. If you don't remember how bad the camera is, do yourself and don't try to remember. It's worse than several N64 titles. Nintendo admitted it needed more time in the oven. Meh. To each their own. 🤷🏻♂️
