They're not pricks because they made a creative choice about when the story should end. They could have Larry David somehow show up as the Mad King and they still wouldn't be pricks.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Sophie Turner Blasts the 'Disrespectful' GoT Petition
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Lol at the wasteman crying on reddit how they feel bad for making the petition.
Lmfao. By now you'd know how these things can comes off, regardless of your intentions. Crying about how you didn't intend any disrespect is some bullshit.
Own it.
Lmfao. By now you'd know how these things can comes off, regardless of your intentions. Crying about how you didn't intend any disrespect is some bullshit.
Own it.
I don't understand the conflation between being allowed to be upset and criticize art and the public airing of grievances online on a massive scale with an attempted level of influence beyond what was ever really possible. I think there is a huge difference between a contained disucssion on this forum or between friends on discord, and going out on the public square of twitter or wherever and attempting to amass as much signal boosting as possible for your hot takes to ensure the people personally involved are impacted to some extant. The intentions and motivations are entirely different.
It's like me wanting to talk as loudly as possible at a restaurant in ensure the cooks and everyone else can hear my complaints about what i just ordered instead of just talking to the people at my table and being polite with the staff. Then if somebody calls me out for being rude I just throw my hands up and say "people are allowed to be upset at and criticize art"
Last edited:
It wouldn't of happened. Do you know how much money these actors and budgets have had to work out pay through each season Do you really think these actors want to stick around that long? 7 seasons have always been HBO proposal que sopranos. Otherwise the budgets would get more out of control
Are the show defenders still trying to paint the critics as entitled manbabies? Despite the widespread criticisms and negative reviews of the last couple of seasons? Really?
What does it say about our culture that legitimate criticism over a piece of corporate art is heckled and attacked? It's a fucking show, people. It's not your baby. It's not your best friend. It can be bad, and it won't affect you (aside from your enjoyment).
What does it say about our culture that legitimate criticism over a piece of corporate art is heckled and attacked? It's a fucking show, people. It's not your baby. It's not your best friend. It can be bad, and it won't affect you (aside from your enjoyment).
I wish people were not aggressive whether they are for or against the petition. The petition might not have been made with the intent of being disrespectful by all people who signed . Also, producing an alternate ending might give work to people,, offer another view of the story, etc.
I,n the old show dallas,a season was criticized for killing a character, IIRC. ratings dropped, and the producers decided that the season would be the "dream" of one character.
I,n the old show dallas,a season was criticized for killing a character, IIRC. ratings dropped, and the producers decided that the season would be the "dream" of one character.
It's the biggest show in the history of the network. D&D were given a blank check. I think show fatigue from them and the actors was probably the biggest factor.
Localized forums and occasional tweets are pretty much always dismissed as "vocal minority".
This "petition" (whose goal was never taken seriously) had much more chances to get the attention of the network/ showrunners in terms of letting them realize the amount of discontent.
Guess what?
Mission accomplished, even if the cast/ crew don't like it.
Will it change anything long term? Who knows? Probably unlikely if there aren't financial consequences like massive loss of subs for HBO and/or sub-par sales of GoT videos compared to projections.
Will it change season 8? Of course not. That was never really on the table, obviously. Season 8 is done, and it is what it is.
But did it get many (many) viewers heard? Apparently, yes. And Ms Turner confirmed that brilliantly.
Lol, I don't think you need to tell the ones defending the show this.
Tell that to the ones who unironically want this season rebooted, despite claiming otherwise. They yearn for their favourite characters to have different fates.
Claiming that "it's just about the writing" is nonsense.
Tell that to the ones who tried to spin a narrative that the actors were unsatisfied only to have said actors say they enjoyed their work. After those actors dismissed that narrative, now they're being 'attacked' in certain fan circles.
Tell that to the fans who unironically believe that anyone who enjoyed this season must have some mental issues.
It's shit all around and this stupid petition didn't help. It is what it is.
I'm not even that much of a 'show defender', I had my problems with the latter half of the show and I'm not a fan of the writing, but this? Nah, this isn't it.
I think some of the show defenders (especially if you are posting on here) were already aware of the declining quality and are now surprised at the hyperbolic reactions to the final season as if this hasn't been a continuing trend. There's not really hyperbole, surprise, or shock to be had in regards to them not sticking the landing if you have been following this slow but still enjoyable train wreck.
If you really want, you can see what I said prior to this season. I basically said I had no real hopes going into the final season. I wanted a conclusion, and I wanted Arya to be revealed to be Death. I even said that I didn't care about the rest of the show as long as Arya's storyline was worth it.
Season 8 was so fucking bad I ended up reading the finale spoilers just to get it over with.
Well yeah, all that shit's stupid.
Especially the petition. I think this is the time for some porn studio to step up and give us the unofficial S8. Get a bunch of people trying to make it in Hollywood who would be ok with hardcore sex scenes, get actual production crews and shit, and make a retconned version of S7/8.
It would be this generation's Pirates.
I guess I don't understand. If I have convo with people at work and you dismiss us a vocal minority, what does that even mean? That we can't find satisfaction with our discussion, criticism, and analysis because it's not getting attention? I don't understand where the motivation comes from to want to get the attention of the network/showrunners to let them realize the amount of discontent. You can't just say that shit to people you know? It's not satisfying unless you're going viral? I don't get it. I buy some shit from the grocery store or see a movie that I don't like and it would never occur to me to then attempt to try to get the attention of the creators to let them know my discontent.
Agreed he should own it. Mostly because there isnt anything to feel bad about.
If Sophie Turner thought that was disrespectful you should see how Jason Momoa reacted to the final episode
But that's how it works. Companies change recipes based on sales/consumer feedback. Look at New Coke.
I'm pretty sure there was some Newman's Own something or other that got horrible backlash, and the company apologized for it not meeting the company's standards.
They made something you didn't like. You react in a way to intentionally make them feel bad about it, and you're saying it's ok that they feel bad now and that you shouldn't feel bad for making them feel bad because it's deserved? This is some twisted thinking that happens when you spend too much time online imo.
In this example I would assume said item I didn't like wasn't for me and that there are probably people who do like it, and at that point where and why am I going to the creators to share my discontent outside of them specifically asking? With no other motivation I'm just going to throw hot takes at them randomly because I want to and it's online or anonymously so it doesn't seem as rude? Companies pay for serious product studies, people are paid for the kind of feedback you describe, they don't source their business decisions from a bunch of haters.
Last edited:
This is disingenuous. The show is a monstrous money maker for HBO, the actors only get paid a solid salary because the show makes waaaay more in profit for HBO. It's the most successful show on television right now.
The actors only started getting big pay days the last two seasons really, and none of them have huge Hollywood careers, I think pretty much all of the cast could have been convinced to come back for one more season at least at the higher rate of pay. If anything they're owed that salary for being underpaid in the first 5-6 years or the show.
HBO has never said they only wanted 7 seasons ... because quite frankly that would be stupid. I'm sure they would have loved 15 seasons and would be just fine and dandy continuing to pay the cast their current salaries or even a bit more if the show continued to bring in monstrous numbers of subscriptions and ratings and merchandising/video sales.
Every network/streaming service TV exec would bend over backwards and kiss their own ass to pay Dinklage, Harrington, Clark, etc. their salaries to have a show as popular as GoT. It's why Amazon is pumping a mountain of money into the LOTR series and HBO already has a GoT spin-off series in development.
in this example it would be like if you went to the store one day and Oreos changed their recipe to something and it tasted like ass. The consumers would be upset, and let Nabisco know, and they would hopefully change the formula back.
This "petition" is the equivalent to a critic saying something to the effect of, "they should just redo the entire season. It's that bad."
Anyone at this point who still thinks this wasn't rushed and has nothing to do with Star Wars at all is being naive IMO.
I'm sorry but for someone whose worked in the Industry it does not work like that there are other creative differences that have to be pushed forward. You cant just keep pumping money and expect that's what people want.
But I am a consumer, I am not "the consumers". I am not going to speak as if i were "the consumers". At what point does a person become "the consumers" and not just a consumer when voicing their personal opinions? When they do it strongly and rudely enough in coordination with others?
It's this idea that something is ass because I personally taste it as ass that I don't get. instead of me just personally not liking it and it not tasting like ass to other people or to the people intentionally wanting to make that thing. The, "I can't accept this thing that I don't like so it has to be ass and I'm going to try and let as many people as possible know about it to ensure that it gets shoved in the creator's face so they feel bad about it" mentality.
Last edited:
Yes or no, do you seriously think with a straight face HBO wasn't making a ton of money on the show?
Profit is king in any industry, HBO can now make shows for another 20 years and they may never sniff anything close to as successful as this was.
There is no reason they would want the show to end and they never said they only wanted 7 seasons only, that's something you invented.
I'll let you keep thinking that if you want but at the end of the day thats your opinion. And yes they were making a shit ton of money then anyone else.
The show being profitable and likely a huge money maker is not an opinion. It's pretty much fact.
It was rushed, and in my post I was wondering why. Star Wars cannot be it, because HBO announced that the ending would be in two short seasons before the Star Wars deal came to be.
Because you're assuming that the Star Wars deal magically just popped out of nowhere in 2018. It's entirely likely D&D were approached by Lucasfilm in 2016 and needed time to actually come up with a concept/treatment for an entire trilogy of Star Wars films.
If you consider that, then everything pretty much makes sense.
It makes sense anyway, unless they had a Star Wars trilogy to just pull out of their ass randomly, it probably would take them some time to come up with something to support 3 entire SW movies, so the 2018 announcement likely was just when they finalized their concept and were able to officially get a green light to begin pre-production.
Disney likely would want to see what characters/story arc/concept D&D had if they're going to green light a full trilogy of films and that likely would take a while to figure out.
There's nothing unusual about this:
Disney: GoT is so successful, how would you guys like to do Star Wars? We need a trilogy to succeed the current one.
D&D: Well we love Star Wars and we're definitely interested, but we don't really have a concept. Can you give us some time to explore what we'd like to do?
That's very reasonable to have happened.
Shrug ok
D&D are crying all the way to the bank. I'm sure they dont care what some fans do on the internet. Acting like this is some injustice when its just a silly petition directed at the writing of the show is somehow anything other than an innocuous act of public criticism Idk what to tell you. If you dont want your art to be criticized dont make it public.
I also am not going to feel bad for writers who continuously wrote sexist and racist bullshit into their show who also want to go on to make a confederacy show, even if it actually makes them feel bad, which I doubt it does.
If there ever was a case for a man needing a beard....this is it.
I can't understand the people who argue that the "creators, actors, stuntpeople, and the other hundreds of people working on the show would be personally slepped in the face because of this petition.
Apart from D&D:
those hundreds of people would dance naked in the moonlight if they had the chance to get paid for making Game of thrones for another 2 or 3 years. Many of them are out of work, looking for work, or working less-paid Jobs.
Apart from D&D:
those hundreds of people would dance naked in the moonlight if they had the chance to get paid for making Game of thrones for another 2 or 3 years. Many of them are out of work, looking for work, or working less-paid Jobs.
The show makes bank, even doing a very basic breakdown of it, lets assume GoT brings HBO about 15 million legit subscriptions just for it (and none of those people retain their subscription after the show ends every season).
Lets say the average cut for a sub is $10/month to HBO, even though HBO Now is actually $15/month.
For a 3 month sub, that works out to about $450 million in revenue to HBO ... versus a $90 million dollar production cost (6 episodes x $15 million budget per episode on average).
That doesn't even factor in Blu-Ray/Video On Demand profit, merchandising tie-ins which have been increasing every year, or the fact that HBO has the series to stream/broadcast for decades to come. That likely is another several hundred million coming HBO's way.
They could have easily bumped the per episode average to $20-$25 million (a large upgrade on the already huge season 7-8) and still be swimming in cash.
The fact was too viewership was growing season by season too as you had tremendous word of mouth bringing in more and more people every season while retaining current fans who had to find out how the story resolves, a season 9/10 could've had ratings north of 20 million viewers quite plausibly.
Lets say the average cut for a sub is $10/month to HBO, even though HBO Now is actually $15/month.
For a 3 month sub, that works out to about $450 million in revenue to HBO ... versus a $90 million dollar production cost (6 episodes x $15 million budget per episode on average).
That doesn't even factor in Blu-Ray/Video On Demand profit, merchandising tie-ins which have been increasing every year, or the fact that HBO has the series to stream/broadcast for decades to come. That likely is another several hundred million coming HBO's way.
They could have easily bumped the per episode average to $20-$25 million (a large upgrade on the already huge season 7-8) and still be swimming in cash.
The fact was too viewership was growing season by season too as you had tremendous word of mouth bringing in more and more people every season while retaining current fans who had to find out how the story resolves, a season 9/10 could've had ratings north of 20 million viewers quite plausibly.
Yep.
D&D probably cost a lot of people on the cast and crew a good amount of money because they couldn't check their egos and let someone else take over for season 9 (and even 10) while they went off to do Star Wars.
Even the cast ... it's not like any of them are huge Hollywood stars that have big money movies lined up for them. Another season or two of big pay days I'm sure would've been appreciated all around.
If Burger King changed the Whopper and people didn't like it and wanted it to go back to the way it was and made a petition about it, would you feel the same? Yes, writing is art, but it's also a commodity. I don't think consumer opinion towards brands should be held back because there is the possibility of people feeling bad, unless it crosses the line into harassment or threats.
I mean I don't see anybody going after WarnerMedia or AT&T in this thread. So in your example pretend the petition and all the amassed hostility was being written and delivered to the GM behind the counters at your local Burger Kings instead of some corporate brand in the sky. I would feel the same yes. I am not making a stand for brands, to be clear. There's also obvious differences between the makers of my toothpaste and the makers of an entertainment or art product. Just some common courtesy online for individuals that aren't the lifeless brands they are perceived to be. And I specify online because rarely do you see people act in such an inconsiderate way in real life.
That's fair, and I agree with you that people should be tactful with regards to the messages they put in the petition, there's no reason for personal attacks or insults or whatever. I do know however that not everyone who signed is doing that sort of thing, I don't think they are all motivated by some twisted sense of entitlement.
Sure they are.
Criticism is just that. A Petition is a call to action. A demand or at least a request.
The petition's title calls for a "re do". It's not veiled criticism, it's not constructive.
Why frame it as a petition? Hoping that it will "get attention"? Ok, why? They admit its got no chance of happening. That undermines their point, it doesn't support it. The seeming goal is essentially to knock over a metaphorical magazine rack. Nothing will change, it's just vented spleen. So yeah, it's petty and entitled. Making it a petition turned it into that.
I do not believe it is entitlement to ask for something or make displeasure known
I don't believe all criticism needs to be judged as constructive for it to be valid or warranted.
To get attention, like you said. It's a medium where a large amount of people have the ability to converge to state their displeasure, and the criticism or desired outcome is probably thought to have a higher chance of being addressed as the number of signees rise.
The only difference between the petition and a single fan tweeting their displeasure at D&D is volume, and I wouldn't say people tweeting their displeasure are entitled.
Sorry dude, we're just real far apart on this I guess.
Yeah, sometimes you work really hard, you do a good job, and it just doesn't come together. Doesn't make your efforts worthless, but it's time to accept that GoT will be mentioned in the same conversation as Dexter and How I Met Your Mother.
It is entitlement to expect or have the temerity to somehow rally people to a cause of "change your artistic output for our pleasure". It's almost the very definition! Again, you get to criticize; but you are owed nothing.
How can you say there is no such thing as invalid criticism?
To get attention for a tantrum. Nothing is expected to happen. You didn't address that.
Petitions aren't a "medium", they are a message. Again that's what this whole thing is about. Write acres of text about how it's bad. Tweet your heart out. That's speech. Making a petition moves it into unreasonable territory. Why is it so important that the cast & crew (all of them - another factor of this) "hear" these farts in the tornado? Think about it for a second.
Fuckin' absolutely.
That is quite the broad generalization and disparagement on a broad swath of people you will never meet. Opinions and all that, but do you really feel it's necessary to negatively boil down the character of over a million people in such a way for taking less than a minute out of their day signing an online petition? Surely you can't know everyone's motivation.
I don't believe everyone who signed the petition believes they are owed something, especially if you admit they know it will never happen.
Because feelings are a thing and can still be valid when not presented as a critical examination.
I don't believe most people are frothing at the mouth or anything while signing a petition. I signed it while sitting down having a cup of coffee. While I don't like the way the season went, I have no anger towards it. No tantrum required.
Disagree, petitions are a medium for communication from one group to another group.
It's absolutely a bizarre medium to voice your disappointment about fictional media to begin with, no matter how it's worded. I went to see the site few days ago, on the front page it lists "topics" such as: "drug prices", "sexual assault", "racial justice", "mass shootings", "women's rights", "police accountability", you get the picture. I have hard time understanding how "D&D are hacks" fits in there at all.
Last edited:
Much like the narrative that it was all about the writing and the pacing, the whole schtick about having their voices heard is some grade a bullshit. That petition has no message besides yelling about remaking season 8 with better writers. There is no grand moral message that needs to be heard. It's worthless, and it's comical that people are still trying so hard to spin it that way. Even their narrative that the cast were super upset about the writing has turned out to be mostly false.
