-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Sony updates PS3 numbers to have sold 87.4 million as of March 31, 2017 (software ~1 billion)
- Thread starter Kolx
- Start date
They appear to near enough correlate with each other? Not sure if there's any sell through, sell in discrepancy mind. Not all these groups have released specific data to the public.
I remember when there were rumours about a PSP successor coming out, too bad Sony never bothered making it a reality.
Oh well that's life
Oh well that's life
Then why are you making such definitive claims?
If you take the time to do the math, which was done in this thread earlier, then you can see how there is a solid argument here.
At the end of the day they both ended up in the same ballpark, so I'm not sure what the actual issue is.
One can only hope we get a history of Xbox podcast at some day, where they reveal the actual LTD unit numbers for X360 and Xbox One.
Maybe in 5 or 10 years.
X360 and Ps3 sold basically the same. Does it matter if either one is a couple of 100k units ahead or behind?
Just don't make a definitive claim on it.
Maybe in 5 or 10 years.
X360 and Ps3 sold basically the same. Does it matter if either one is a couple of 100k units ahead or behind?
Just don't make a definitive claim on it.
Not necessarily definitive, rather based on the information and authorities we have at hand. I think Welfares math was perhaps too liberal on the 360 YoY drops, and also for things to work out as Welfare predicts, they'd have to be contrary to previous sales trends and also to other prominent analyst data firm tracking and/or statistics. I think the Xbox One likely shipped more in those early years than some perhaps initially predicted, but yes, without exacting figures it's not definitive, you're right.
As you've mentioned it's going to be in a similar ballpark so it doesn't really matter all that much in the end, but it's fun to discuss and debate.
Last edited:
The Xbox 360 dried up way before the PS3 did. During its final years it felt like it barely got any new games whereas the PS3 still got games even after the PS4 had launched (including cross gen titles like Persona 5 and MGSV).
Oookay?
Yeah that's the issue here. Until yesterday, the 360 had the highest officially announced figure, but that didn't stop the dominant narrative being 'PS3 eventually overtook it', despite it really being 50/50 based on what data we have. I'd had many discussions in previous threads where I'd made the point it was possible or even maybe likely but could not be said definitively. Now PS3 all of a sudden has the highest officially announced figure, and it becomes 'actual announced figures are more important!!!'. Because it's agenda driven.
For it to be definitive, we'd need either Microsoft to report a final total, or one or the other to state outright they sold more in publicly, and the other to not refute it. All extremely unlikely so many years later, especially when the bragging rights are to having lost billions of dollars to come second to Nintendo who made 10 billion in profit on their first placed console.
The question I have is why has Sony released this now anyway? Obviously they release numbers when they think it makes them look good, and hide the numbers when it makes them look bad. So in this case I guess it's for PS4 comparisons? PS4 is preparing to become their #2 seller of all time so they wanted to line up their final official sell-in figures to talk about their current good news in relation to their previous two under-performers (while still obscuring Vita because reasons).
It's also interesting the narrative on Nintendo is 'Nintendo has contracted because now they'll only have the Switch instead of TV console+handheld' but this doesn't get applied to Sony. PS3+PSP sold 160m+, despite the PS3's failure it was actually still their biggest generation in hardware sold. PS4+Vita will not reach that, but Sony sales threads are 'beast' 'king is back' etc.
I said "including" (meaning not limited to). PS3 had way more support towards the end of its lifespan than the 360 ever did. Are you trying to argue otherwise?
Did you forget the Wii U?
Nintendo relied heavily on their handheld devices, Sony, not so much. The handheld's market has shifted to mobile, so the concern is legitimate. PS4 is also their most profitable console ever, so they are indeed a "beast" right now.
Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Screamride
Just a few exclusives on top of my head.
X360 had a lot of end of lifetime support from Microsoft.
Last edited:
How you expect me to sleep at night if I don't know for sure if my box sold more SMH
The PS3 had games like the Last of Us and lots of Japanese games that weren't on PC. It really isn't surprising that PS3 overtook 360 in terms of sales in the end, even if it's not by much. Kind of silly how some people have a hard time accepting these new figures as real, despite coming from straight from the horses mouth, just because it means Microsoft finished last - again. It really shouldn't matter. The Wii outsold both but is probably the least popular one in terms of its games library.
Trash post. You talk about it being 'silly' they weight in with a strawman and fanboy barbs.
NOBODY has not accepted the figures as real. Nobody. The argument is that we don't have the actual final 360 figure and doing the numbers it's close and seems to lean on the 360 side by those who have crunched the numbers. And random subjective shade thrown on the actual clear definitive winner at the end for colour too, nice.
Didn't forget the Wii U, everyone agrees it was a huge failure.
But Sony DID rely on their handheld market (and legacy PS2 sales) for growth (and in fact just to tread water) last gen. Sony's hardware sales dropped gen on gen, that's a fact. If that doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter for anybody.
They're making more profit on PS4, okay cool, is profit is the only measure of success now? In that case the PS3 is by an order of magnitude the biggest failure in the history of video games, it shouldn't matter how it sold, it lost between 7-10 billion dollars. Vastly more than the Saturn or Virtual Boy lost.
Last edited:
Since Sony only has 2 handhelds, and only 1 of them is successful, I would say they did not rely on that market anywhere close to Nintendo's level.
Nobody argued that PS3 isn't a big failure in term of profit, and it is a valuable lesson to everyone, especially to Sony.
In the end, volume is good, but it matters the most when it can be translated to profit. PS4 currently has both.
Total hardware drop gen on gen is inevitable because of mobile. If anything, it is certainly impressive that they can make more with less.
Oookay?
Yeah that's the issue here. Until yesterday, the 360 had the highest officially announced figure, but that didn't stop the dominant narrative being 'PS3 eventually overtook it', despite it really being 50/50 based on what data we have. I'd had many discussions in previous threads where I'd made the point it was possible or even maybe likely but could not be said definitively. Now PS3 all of a sudden has the highest officially announced figure, and it becomes 'actual announced figures are more important!!!'. Because it's agenda driven.
It's also interesting the narrative on Nintendo is 'Nintendo has contracted because now they'll only have the Switch instead of TV console+handheld' but this doesn't get applied to Sony. PS3+PSP sold 160m+, despite the PS3's failure it was actually still their biggest generation in hardware sold. PS4+Vita will not reach that, but Sony sales threads are 'beast' 'king is back' etc.
Only a person with agenda would claim everyone is out to get Nintendo and that nobody is praising them while praising Sony.
Don't kid yourself. You have your bias and your agenda too.
On topic - pretty great turnaround all around after that disaster of a launch. If there is one positive from that gen for Sony is increased first party investment. That is helping them today.
Jesus Christ at that last green bar.Sony game division was widely in the red during the PS3/PSP era.
PS3 is the console that caused the most losses in the history of videogames (ahead of OG Xbox and Dreamcast).
Graph by Zhugex.
Right back at you. The argument I was trying to make was that it wouldn't be surprising if Sony had ended up selling more because in the end they clearly had the upper hand in regards to the software. I believe the numbers seem to suggest as much, in addition to personal opinion about the PS3 having more to offer in its twilight years.
And this argument I'm sure wasn't raised in a thread about Sony's achievements to downplay and derail it with fanboyism. Give me a break.
Sooo... you brushed straight past your use of a strawman.
Show who said these new figures were not real? Nobody did, you deliberately deceptively characterised other people's arguments. And then to not even own up to it when called out!
The thread is not about Sony's achievements. It's largely about the fact that Sony had zero transparency on their sales since 2013 then all of a sudden this popped up six years later, which is notable and of interest to sales figure fans.
I have seen no Microsoft fanboyism in this thread, at least none I could detect, and I am certainly not a Microsoft fan myself. Those suggesting we still don't know the actual totals have just been number crunchers interested in the truth. There have however been plenty of Sony fanboy posts.
This is even worse than it looks when you consider the PS2 was still huge in the PS3's early years.Sony game division was widely in the red during the PS3/PSP era.
PS3 is the console that caused the most losses in the history of videogames (ahead of OG Xbox and Dreamcast).
Graph by Zhugex.
Yes. Do you talk about Microsoft's FY or Sony's FY, tho?
Yeah it was off topic but I'm trying to figure something out :P. Also yeah I wanted 360.
Last edited:
You have repeated this throughout the thread and ignored my simple assertion that I believe facts over estimates.Oookay?
Yeah that's the issue here. Until yesterday, the 360 had the highest officially announced figure, but that didn't stop the dominant narrative being 'PS3 eventually overtook it', despite it really being 50/50 based on what data we have. I'd had many discussions in previous threads where I'd made the point it was possible or even maybe likely but could not be said definitively. Now PS3 all of a sudden has the highest officially announced figure, and it becomes 'actual announced figures are more important!!!'. Because it's agenda driven.
For it to be definitive, we'd need either Microsoft to report a final total, or one or the other to state outright they sold more in publicly, and the other to not refute it. All extremely unlikely so many years later, especially when the bragging rights are to having lost billions of dollars to come second to Nintendo who made 10 billion in profit on their first placed console.
The question I have is why has Sony released this now anyway? Obviously they release numbers when they think it makes them look good, and hide the numbers when it makes them look bad. So in this case I guess it's for PS4 comparisons? PS4 is preparing to become their #2 seller of all time so they wanted to line up their final official sell-in figures to talk about their current good news in relation to their previous two under-performers (while still obscuring Vita because reasons).
It's also interesting the narrative on Nintendo is 'Nintendo has contracted because now they'll only have the Switch instead of TV console+handheld' but this doesn't get applied to Sony. PS3+PSP sold 160m+, despite the PS3's failure it was actually still their biggest generation in hardware sold. PS4+Vita will not reach that, but Sony sales threads are 'beast' 'king is back' etc.
PS3 thus far, has out sold the 360. Why are you having a difficult time admitting to this?
As a matter of fact, we are using the same mantra you are applying of going by the latest vis-à-vis time. Until Microsoft reports their figures, we can only go by what's available to us. This is typically how we gauge overall numbers.
Ps3 sold 87.4 million as of March 2017
Xbox 360 sold 83.7 million as of March 2014 (at that point Xbox 360 was at least 300k units ahead of Ps3)
It's really not that hard.
I am not sure what you are trying to say that hasnt been repeated ad nauseum.
Sony released the latest numbers, Microsoft hasn't (maybe they will in the future). Based on this, to date, PS3 has sold nearly 4m more.
My point is people should just stop posting XYZ sold more or less and whatnot, but rather just post the actual official known numbers next to each other.
That's fair but I don't see why we can't compare them with caveats.
Some people seem to have issues dealing with official numbers, even with caveats like you said. We only have official numbers to go by, and in my opinion it's likely that even should Microsoft updates their numbers they'd still trail a bit behind. I've never tried to pass this off as a fact though. It's just what I think is more likely thanks to stronger software sales, on top of the current official numbers (which again sees PS3 rise to the second best-selling home console of last gen). If someone thinks Microsoft's unconfirmed numbers are higher, that's fair - but you don't get to claim the current official standing is invalid just because you have a hunch the numbers don't hold up.
You can apply the same logic to the sales of current gen consoles. When's the last time Microsoft updated their sales figures for Xbox One? It seems they haven't given us any official numbers since 2016, when they were still below 20m. We have industry people estimating it's around 40m now, I think? But we don't know, right? So with Nintendo confirmed being at 35m now, they're likely to hit 50 before Microsoft based on trajectory alone and when they eventually confirm to have hit that target, unless Microsoft update their numbers that puts Switch as the second best-selling console this gen even if Microsoft could theoretically be 5 million ahead of Nintendo by then, but that's kind of a moot point if they don't report it.
We have these numbers now and we have EEDAR (an NPD Group) saying PS3 outsold the Xbox 360. So yes, the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360.
"Context is everything" It's literally in the graphic.
Also I remember when this was brought up in the current gen discussion and people said, Xbox One is not at 20 million already, when Ps4 is 36 million.
Good old times.
That is the best analogy so far.
Again, no, it is not definitive.
That chart is sales estimates, not officially released numbers, and contradicts them.
It shows 360 at ~83(?) million in December 2015 but MS announced Xbox 360 had sold 84 million in June 2014.
It's possible MS overshipped, only got to 83/84 sold as of the end of 2015, and only produced a tiny number for the last two years it was still in production, leading to an actual total not much over that. But it's only guesses.
Some people lie about what others say with strawman arguments and don't own up to it.
Last edited:
Can't stuff like inaccuracy diminish NPD's name, why would they allow the EEDAR to guess?
I just have no idea how people can argue so passionately about PS3 vs. 360 sales when we are about 5 and a half years into the current generation lol.
I get that it was the one gen where PlayStation and Xbox were neck and neck, but the sales of those platforms mean little to nothing today other than MS thinking "we want that again! :(" and Sony thinking "We don't want that again! :(" when they look at how their platforms that gen did lol.
I get that it was the one gen where PlayStation and Xbox were neck and neck, but the sales of those platforms mean little to nothing today other than MS thinking "we want that again! :(" and Sony thinking "We don't want that again! :(" when they look at how their platforms that gen did lol.
I just checked on the EEDAR about page and they only joined the NPD group in Oct of 2016, isn't there a chance that their info could've been wrong at that current time?
Here's their "About" section: https://www.eedar.com/about
And some people are just needlessly hostile, making it hard to engage in serious conversation. It wasn't as much as an intentional strawman on my part as it was me not having followed the entire discussion from the start. There you go, an admission that I got something wrong. Happy? You cleared it up for me, and I replied to the new information you provided.
The official standing is what it is. Nintendo at #1, Sony at #2 and Microsoft at #3. You can add caveats and speculate all you want, but this is how it looks like right now. The fact that we don't have more recent numbers from Microsoft doesn't invalidate the current information at all.
No. The Wii ended up selling almost 102m, which is an impressive feat.
I do think the way Sony bounced back from their disastrous PS3 launch is worth mentioning too though.
No tracking is a census, especially worldwide, and always involves a certain level of extrapolation. See how Media Create and Famitsu numbers differ in Japan.
Manufacturing numbers are much more solid ultimately.
Though they're not perfect in another way - ultimately shipped = sold, but some of those shipped may have been sold in liquidation, which has happened with some consoles (Dreamcast and original Xbox are the biggest examples, multiple millions sold on clearance).
I shouldn't have come on so strong, I apologise for that. It gets like that when people come in and say the same thing that has been addressed already. It's best to read the thread before characterising one side of the discussion as 'not accepting the truth'.
That's not how official standings work, if you don't have all the evidence you can't claim something is official.
Yes, it is. Official standing is based on official numbers. You can add the caveat that it's not necessarily the final standing (which is what you're talking about), but it's the official one as of right now.
I think there's a few things to look at.
They had the funding do triple down on the machine (likely partly due to the Blu-ray push from other divisions), but lost so many billions doing it... levels of loss that would cripple most companies on planet earth. They did it, and there is some strength there in staying the course no matter what. And it ended up paying off because they had some momentum at the end, despite the terrible launch and also their answer to the Wii Remote fizzling while Microsoft's motion control answer gave them a whole second wind
I find the Wii U an interesting counterpoint. Another obvious disaster coming right off a huge success, but instead of spending money to 'force' it to be more successful like Sony did with the PS3, Nintendo instead did the opposite, and sacrificed hardware sales numbers for profitability. The Wii U basically never got a price cut its entire life to save Nintendo's profitability. And Nintendo managed to repurpose many of its games as Switch games, similar to how Sony bolstered early PS4 with PS3 ports like TLOU Remastered. So some parallels despite the opposite approach too.
No one is adding a caveat, stop using that as a defence.
The truth is that Sony posted an update to PS3 2017 overall sales as of march 31st 2017 and its above Xbox 360 by 3 million, I and nobody is denying that.
The problem is that some people aren't adding one, not that they do.
Yes, and that means that officially speaking the PS3 has sold more than the 360 unless/until Microsoft update their numbers. It doesn't mean these numbers are final, but they're very much official. And that's what we have to go by.
I think that's sort of a unique case. I'm still puzzled as to what their endgame was with that console. It came out a bit too late to compete with PS3 and 360, and I fail to see how it would have been able to sustain itself in the long run even had it been successful. I can't imagine that Nintendo felt like their success going forward after the Wii was hanging on how well the Wii U did. On the other hand, Sony had to make it work with the PS3. Just like how Nintendo had to make it work with the 3DS (which is yet another example of turning things around, imo).
This is what Paul George said after Damian Lillard hit that shot.