Who do you trust more? Sony or third party research firms?
They appear to near enough correlate with each other? Not sure if there's any sell through, sell in discrepancy mind. Not all these groups have released specific data to the public.
Then why are you making such definitive claims?
If you take the time to do the math, which was done in this thread earlier, then you can see how there is a solid argument here.
At the end of the day they both ended up in the same ballpark, so I'm not sure what the actual issue is.
Oookay?The Xbox 360 dried up way before the PS3 did. During its final years it felt like it barely got any new games whereas the PS3 still got games even after the PS4 had launched (including cross gen titles like Persona 5 and MGSV).
Yeah that's the issue here. Until yesterday, the 360 had the highest officially announced figure, but that didn't stop the dominant narrative being 'PS3 eventually overtook it', despite it really being 50/50 based on what data we have. I'd had many discussions in previous threads where I'd made the point it was possible or even maybe likely but could not be said definitively. Now PS3 all of a sudden has the highest officially announced figure, and it becomes 'actual announced figures are more important!!!'. Because it's agenda driven.X360 and Ps3 sold basically the same. Does it matter if either one is a couple of 100k units ahead or behind?
Just don't make a definitive claim on it.
Did you forget the Wii U?
Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2, Rise of the Tomb Raider, ScreamrideI said "including" (meaning not limited to). PS3 had way more support towards the end of its lifespan than the 360 ever did. Are you trying to argue otherwise?
How you expect me to sleep at night if I don't know for sure if my box sold more SMHThen why are you making such definitive claims?
If you take the time to do the math, which was done in this thread earlier, then you can see how there is a solid argument here.
At the end of the day they both ended up in the same ballpark, so I'm not sure what the actual issue is.
Trash post. You talk about it being 'silly' they weight in with a strawman and fanboy barbs.The PS3 had games like the Last of Us and lots of Japanese games that weren't on PC. It really isn't surprising that PS3 overtook 360 in terms of sales in the end, even if it's not by much. Kind of silly how some people have a hard time accepting these new figures as real, despite coming from straight from the horses mouth, just because it means Microsoft finished last - again. It really shouldn't matter. The Wii outsold both but is probably the least popular one in terms of its games library.
Didn't forget the Wii U, everyone agrees it was a huge failure.Did you forget the Wii U?
Nintendo relied heavily on their handheld devices, Sony, not so much. The handheld's market has shifted to mobile, so the concern is legitimate. PS4 is also their most profitable console ever, so they are indeed a "beast" right now.
Oookay?
Yeah that's the issue here. Until yesterday, the 360 had the highest officially announced figure, but that didn't stop the dominant narrative being 'PS3 eventually overtook it', despite it really being 50/50 based on what data we have. I'd had many discussions in previous threads where I'd made the point it was possible or even maybe likely but could not be said definitively. Now PS3 all of a sudden has the highest officially announced figure, and it becomes 'actual announced figures are more important!!!'. Because it's agenda driven.
It's also interesting the narrative on Nintendo is 'Nintendo has contracted because now they'll only have the Switch instead of TV console+handheld' but this doesn't get applied to Sony. PS3+PSP sold 160m+, despite the PS3's failure it was actually still their biggest generation in hardware sold. PS4+Vita will not reach that, but Sony sales threads are 'beast' 'king is back' etc.
Jesus Christ at that last green bar.Sony game division was widely in the red during the PS3/PSP era.
PS3 is the console that caused the most losses in the history of videogames (ahead of OG Xbox and Dreamcast).
Graph by Zhugex.
Trash post. You talk about it being 'silly' they weight in with a strawman and fanboy barbs.
The argument is that we don't have the actual final 360 figure and doing the numbers it's close and seems to lean on the 360 side by those who have crunched the numbers.
Sooo... you brushed straight past your use of a strawman.Right back at you. The argument I was trying to make was that it wouldn't be surprising if Sony had ended up selling more because in the end they clearly had the upper hand in regards to the software. I believe the numbers seem to suggest as much, in addition to personal opinion about the PS3 having more to offer in its twilight years.
And this argument I'm sure wasn't raised in a thread about Sony's achievements to downplay and derail it with fanboyism. Give me a break.
Show who said these new figures were not real? Nobody did, you deliberately deceptively characterised other people's arguments. And then to not even own up to it when called out!Kind of silly how some people have a hard time accepting these new figures as real, despite coming from straight from the horses mouth, just because it means Microsoft finished last
This is even worse than it looks when you consider the PS2 was still huge in the PS3's early years.Sony game division was widely in the red during the PS3/PSP era.
PS3 is the console that caused the most losses in the history of videogames (ahead of OG Xbox and Dreamcast).
Graph by Zhugex.
Yes. Do you talk about Microsoft's FY or Sony's FY, tho?
You have repeated this throughout the thread and ignored my simple assertion that I believe facts over estimates.Oookay?
Yeah that's the issue here. Until yesterday, the 360 had the highest officially announced figure, but that didn't stop the dominant narrative being 'PS3 eventually overtook it', despite it really being 50/50 based on what data we have. I'd had many discussions in previous threads where I'd made the point it was possible or even maybe likely but could not be said definitively. Now PS3 all of a sudden has the highest officially announced figure, and it becomes 'actual announced figures are more important!!!'. Because it's agenda driven.
For it to be definitive, we'd need either Microsoft to report a final total, or one or the other to state outright they sold more in publicly, and the other to not refute it. All extremely unlikely so many years later, especially when the bragging rights are to having lost billions of dollars to come second to Nintendo who made 10 billion in profit on their first placed console.
The question I have is why has Sony released this now anyway? Obviously they release numbers when they think it makes them look good, and hide the numbers when it makes them look bad. So in this case I guess it's for PS4 comparisons? PS4 is preparing to become their #2 seller of all time so they wanted to line up their final official sell-in figures to talk about their current good news in relation to their previous two under-performers (while still obscuring Vita because reasons).
It's also interesting the narrative on Nintendo is 'Nintendo has contracted because now they'll only have the Switch instead of TV console+handheld' but this doesn't get applied to Sony. PS3+PSP sold 160m+, despite the PS3's failure it was actually still their biggest generation in hardware sold. PS4+Vita will not reach that, but Sony sales threads are 'beast' 'king is back' etc.
You have repeated this throughout the thread and ignored my simple assertion that I believe facts over estimates.
PS3 thus far, has out sold the 360. Why are you having a difficult time admitting to this?
As a matter of fact, we are using the same mantra you are applying of going by the latest vis-à-vis time. Until Microsoft reports their figures, we can only go by what's available to us. This is typically how we gauge overall numbers.
I am not sure what you are trying to say that hasnt been repeated ad nauseum.Ps3 sold 87.4 million as of March 2017
Xbox 360 sold 83.7 million as of March 2014 (at that point Xbox 360 was at least 300k units ahead of Ps3)
It's really not that hard.
My point is people should just stop posting XYZ sold more or less and whatnot, but rather just post the actual official known numbers next to each other.I am not sure what you are trying to say that hasnt been repeated ad nauseum.
Sony released the latest numbers, Microsoft hasn't (maybe they will in the future). Based on this, to date, PS3 has sold nearly 4m more.
That's fair but I don't see why we can't compare them with caveats.My point is people should just stop posting XYZ sold more or less and whatnot, but rather just post the actual official known numbers next to each other.
Until Microsoft reports their figures, we can only go by what's available to us. This is typically how we gauge overall numbers.
"Context is everything" It's literally in the graphic.We have these numbers now and we have EEDAR (an NPD Group) saying PS3 outsold the Xbox 360. So yes, the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360.
That is the best analogy so far.
Again, no, it is not definitive.We have these numbers now and we have EEDAR (an NPD Group) saying PS3 outsold the Xbox 360. So yes, the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360.
Some people lie about what others say with strawman arguments and don't own up to it.
Again, no, it is not definitive.
That chart is sales estimates, not officially released numbers, and contradicts them.
It shows 360 at ~83(?) million in December 2015 but MS announced Xbox 360 had sold 84 million in June 2014.
It's possible MS overshipped, only got to 83/84 sold as of the end of 2015, and only produced a tiny number for the last two years it was still in production, leading to an actual total not much over that. But it's only guesses.
We have these numbers now and we have EEDAR (an NPD Group) saying PS3 outsold the Xbox 360. So yes, the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360.
Some people lie about what others say with strawman arguments and don't own up to it.
So it actually ended up selling more than Xbox 360
Holy shit Sony is unbeatable
$599 + Cell + 1 year later and still beat 360
No tracking is a census, especially worldwide, and always involves a certain level of extrapolation. See how Media Create and Famitsu numbers differ in Japan.Can't stuff like inaccuracy diminish NPD's name, why would they allow the EEDAR to guess?
I shouldn't have come on so strong, I apologise for that. It gets like that when people come in and say the same thing that has been addressed already. It's best to read the thread before characterising one side of the discussion as 'not accepting the truth'.And some people are just needlessly hostile, making it hard to engage in serious conversation. It wasn't as much as an intentional strawman on my part as it was me not having followed the entire discussion from the start. There you go, an admission that I got something wrong. Happy? You cleared it up for me, and I replied to the new information you provided.
That's not how official standings work, if you don't have all the evidence you can't claim something is official.The official standing is what it is. Nintendo at #1, Sony at #2 and Microsoft at #3.
That's not how official standings work, if you don't have all the evidence you can't claim something is official.
I think there's a few things to look at.I do think the way Sony bounced back from their disastrous PS3 launch is worth mentioning too though.
Yes, it is. Official standing is based on official numbers. You can add the caveat that it's not necessarily the final standing (which is what you're talking about), but it's the official one as of right now.
The truth is that Sony posted an update to PS3 2017 overall sales as of march 31st 2017 and its above Xbox 360 by 3 million, I and nobody is denying that.
I find the Wii U an interesting counterpoint. Another obvious disaster coming right off a huge success, but instead of spending money to 'force' it to be more successful like Sony did with the PS3, Nintendo instead did the opposite, and sacrificed hardware sales numbers for profitability. The Wii U basically never got a price cut its entire life to save Nintendo's profitability.
Congrats on finally 'winning' a gen that's been over for five years, I guess.