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Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,662
The importance of this Sony Santa Monica comeback was put into perspective by this tweet from Jason



After the poor sales of Ascension and the cancelled new IP, followed by layoffs things could have gone really south if GOW did not do as well as it did. Not only have they made a fantastic game, they have come back to be one of the premier dev teams in the world.

I love these positive come back stories! Bravo to SSM and here is to many more games from you guys! Now bring on the next gen sequel.
 

JayWood2010

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,120
They did an amazing job with God of War. Glad to see them do so well. Never really thought about them struggling, though I guess that is true.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,072
And we still have so little real insight about what that unfortunate IP should have been. Jason, anyone, please, I'm still really curious about it.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,807
an amazing turn around story and i cant wait to see more of what they bring next, whether it is cory's new IP, or the more likely sequel.
In addition i would really love if Jason made an article on this and about their cancelled IP early in the gen, I am very interested in a behind the scenes look of what happened back then.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,006
Did all forget that these guys made three >90 games before GOW 2018?

Ok they made Ascension which wasn't a masterpiece and a project didn't work out but still the talent has always been there. Someone on gaf compared this game to Ryse for fuck sake.
 

Mr.Branding

Banned
May 11, 2018
1,407
SSM has been one of Sony's premier in-house studios for years. Was it really in that much trouble potentially? Seems a tad dramatic.

Exactly. I even ate up Ascension and loved that combat and grapple system.
But it would appear the "press" loves a "comeback" story so here's one.

In other news, you put in the hours, you get the results. Congrats to SSM.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,498
I think there's some hyperbole here. They weren't going anywhere, and a new God of War was always going to happen.

I've never seen them as anything but one of the world's premier game studios. I'm sure ND, Rockstar etc. have tried to kick-start new IP internally that haven't made it past preproduction as well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,072
SSM has been one of Sony's premier in-house studios for years. Was it really in that much trouble potentially? Seems a tad dramatic.

Apparently the cancelled IP cost a LOT of money. I think was a video where Shannon Studstill more or less suggested that any other owner that Sony would have shut down the studio. There is this video from 4 years ago but that doesn't seems to be this one.

 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,939
SSM has been one of Sony's premier in-house studios for years. Was it really in that much trouble potentially? Seems a tad dramatic.
The cancelled game cost a lot (over $100m before the plug was pulled I believe), if they fucked up again it's not too crazy that they'd be downsized significantly. Thank fuck they knocked it out the park.
 

Acquiescence

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,257
Lake Titicaca

Just asking. People are mentioning Ascension and the cancelled project prior to GoW (2018) after all.

Apparently the cancelled IP cost a LOT of money. I think was a video where Shannon Studstill more or less suggested that any other owner that Sony would have shut down the studio. There is this video from 4 years ago but that doesn't seems to be this one.


The cancelled game cost a lot (over $100m before the plug was pulled I believe), if they fucked up again it's not too crazy that they'd be downsized significantly. Thank fuck they knocked it out the park.

Interesting. Makes you wonder how borked the game actually was for Sony to pull the plug after all that money was invested into it.
 

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
Sony's Studios this generation improved a lot. Both Santa Monica and Guerrilla joined Naughty Dog as Sony's top Studios.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
SSM has been one of Sony's premier in-house studios for years. Was it really in that much trouble potentially? Seems a tad dramatic.

Well, maybe not in too much trouble, but SSM wasn't having the best years of their studio fora long time.

2013: God of War Ascension released to tepid critical and commercial response. The IP was internally debated within Sony to be shelved or put on hiatus due to that.
2014: New IP Darkside was cancelled, and more than 50 Santa Monica employees were laid off. God of War project hastily accelerated in timeline which put pressure on Cory and co. Also underwent new studio relocation from Santa Monica.
2015: The Order 1886, a SSM-externally produced game was also released to tepid response. GoW3 Remastered also released to tepid sales. ( granted, the remaster was barely marketed was of really poor value )
2016: Sometime between late 2015 and early 2016, SSM gutted their external development team to focus solely on internal development. What Remains of Edith Finch was sold to Annapurna. And games like Wattam, etc was left in a limbo.
2017: Usual development challenges with any major AAA game. Cory likes to talk about how Atreus was often nearly cut from the game, etc etc.
 

Detective

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,852
Am so happy to see that.

I said it before, they rebooted the studio and rebooted a highly anticipated game. Reinvented and revolutionized the franchise and yet stayed true to the serie. What an incredible studio.
Unlike some who shouldn't be mentioned.

Congrats SM.
 

Dr Pears

Member
Sep 9, 2018
2,669
Neat. There were interviews where Shu didn't like what he saw when they first showed him the new God of War. Luckily the game came out amazing in the end.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,059
I get being weary of the media liking a comeback story, but this really is one. Partly for the reasons Nightengale mentioned:

Well, maybe not in too much trouble, but SSM wasn't having the best years of their studio fora long time.

2013: God of War Ascension released to tepid critical and commercial response. The IP was internally debated within Sony to be shelved or put on hiatus due to that.
2014: New IP Darkside was cancelled, and more than 50 Santa Monica employees were laid off. God of War project hastily accelerated in timeline which put pressure on Cory and co. Also underwent new studio relocation from Santa Monica.
2015: The Order 1886, a SSM-externally produced game was also released to tepid response. GoW3 Remastered also released to tepid sales. ( granted, the remaster was barely marketed was of really poor value )
2016: Sometime between late 2015 and early 2016, SSM gutted their external development team to focus solely on internal development. What Remains of Edith Finch was sold to Annapurna. And games like Wattam, etc was left in a limbo.
2017: Usual development challenges with any major AAA game. Cory likes to talk about how Atreus was often nearly cut from the game, etc etc.

But also, people forget that Santa Monica's first God of War was a blurb in a lot of places. I remember seeing a short write-up on it in EGM's 2004 E3 issue, with Shane saying, "Keep an eye on this one." And then they exploded as the best Sony studio, creator David Jaffe became a bigger name and was invited to all these interviews, the game featured a behind-the-scenes element that most games didn't have, and this new IP comes out of nowhere late in the gen. Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, they weren't the big dogs yet.

Having posted on a billion boards over the years, Naughty Dog wasn't known as a GOTY creator until Uncharted 2 in 2009 as none of their games really garnered the praise of games like MGS2 or GTA or Metroid. I still remember Jak 2 criticism at the time. It got to a point where all you had to do was see the ND logo and you were psyched.

God of War 3, despite being a really fun game, had plenty of issues even noted at the time by a lot of gamers. Many people even here probably gushed over it at the time, as did I, but the puzzles really took a hit, especially after the first game's excellent "Align all the doors in Pandora's Temple" (the Labyrinth did not live up to that), and the pacing kind of took a hit upon getting to the Labyrinth since it blew its load with bosses in the first 4 hours. The gameplay became more refined, and it had some great boss fights, and it's a lot of fun, but it didn't blow the doors off as the first one did.

Ascension was disappointing, the cancelled IP, the layoffs, and the only game being a remaster of GOW3 for a while (instead of a full Saga collection as PS3 received), and I wasn't as, "OMG CAN'T WAIT FOR SANTA MONICA'S NEW GAME" as I used to be.

It's actually pretty cool: RDR1 won a ton of GOTY awards over GOW3. This year, GOW wins this big one and is holding its own in ways the third did not.
 

Outrun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,780
I think that the comeback that complete, the moment they released GoW.

The GOTY awards was icing on the cake.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,416
Well, maybe not in too much trouble, but SSM wasn't having the best years of their studio fora long time.

2013: God of War Ascension released to tepid critical and commercial response. The IP was internally debated within Sony to be shelved or put on hiatus due to that.
2014: New IP Darkside was cancelled, and more than 50 Santa Monica employees were laid off. God of War project hastily accelerated in timeline which put pressure on Cory and co. Also underwent new studio relocation from Santa Monica.
2015: The Order 1886, a SSM-externally produced game was also released to tepid response. GoW3 Remastered also released to tepid sales. ( granted, the remaster was barely marketed was of really poor value )
2016: Sometime between late 2015 and early 2016, SSM gutted their external development team to focus solely on internal development. What Remains of Edith Finch was sold to Annapurna. And games like Wattam, etc was left in a limbo.
2017: Usual development challenges with any major AAA game. Cory likes to talk about how Atreus was often nearly cut from the game, etc etc.

I had no idea. If Atreus was cut it would have been a completely different story/game.
 

thisismadness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,442
For me, that has been the story of Sony's first party this generation.

Outside of Naughty Dog, I didn't have a positive feeling about them in the PS3 years or at the start of the PS4. I thought a lot of their output was OK at best and largely forgettable. These days they've reached that Nintendo level where anything they are publishing gets instant interest and hype from me.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
I think there's some hyperbole here. They weren't going anywhere, and a new God of War was always going to happen.

I've never seen them as anything but one of the world's premier game studios. I'm sure ND, Rockstar etc. have tried to kick-start new IP internally that haven't made it past preproduction as well.
SSM's new IP was in development for multiple years and it's cancellation led to layoffs and the departure of long time employee and creative director Stig Asmusson. So this was a bigger deal than just a failed prototype.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,498
SSM's new IP was in development for multiple years and it's cancellation led to layoffs and the departure of long time employee and creative director Stig Asmusson. So this was a bigger deal than just a failed prototype.

I get that, but I doubt they were ever in real danger given their size and the fact that they'd previously shipped multiple 90+ metacritic titles.
 

Kerotan

Banned
Oct 31, 2018
3,951
Apparently the cancelled IP cost a LOT of money. I think was a video where Shannon Studstill more or less suggested that any other owner that Sony would have shut down the studio. There is this video from 4 years ago but that doesn't seems to be this one.


Thankfully Sony had more patience then most publishers or we would never have had this years GOTY.

I think the biggest issue with ascension was not having it as a cross gen ps4 launch title. Ps4 gamers were thirsty that first year and this would have sold.
 

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,807
Norway but living in France
They had eight difficult years between God of War 3 & God of War 2018.
A disappointing GoW Ascension w/lackluster sales , a huge project cancellation with people leaving and a 5-year development bet on the latest God of War.

Now they have a rocking new formula to explore and a 10+ million selling Goty under their belt.
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,602
Apparently the cancelled IP cost a LOT of money. I think was a video where Shannon Studstill more or less suggested that any other owner that Sony would have shut down the studio. There is this video from 4 years ago but that doesn't seems to be this one.


The story escalated extremely at gaf to one lies of an insider. We only now for sure that stig was working on it the whole time after gow3 and that the game went to full production for one year after ascension was released.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,171
SSM has been one of Sony's premier in-house studios for years. Was it really in that much trouble potentially? Seems a tad dramatic.

Yeah I know Ascension wasn't well-received but I can't imagine Sony was ever seriously thinking about shutting them down. I think just their tech skills alone have been leveraged to help multiple other sony devs
 

Ichi

Banned
Sep 10, 2018
1,997
yeah, ascension was really great. multiplayer was fun, puzzles were way better than gow3, sense of adventure was there, the items were way better than 3's...i really do not understand the hate. it seemed like the media at that time just hated it for the sake of hating without even giving the game a chance. they had biases going in such as, "why do we need this game?", etc. was rolling my eyes so hard over the shit the press just spewed.
 

Deleted member 25128

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
656
To be fair the poor sales of Ascension wasn't necessarily SM fault, It came out towards the end of the PS3 as I remember, just when software sales were dying out and PS4 was about to release. GT did poorly as well.... (assuming I remember correctly).
 

DeathyG

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
NW Indiana
SSM and Guerrilla have hit Naughty Dog level IMO. Sucker Punch and Bend are almost there.

Sony's lucky to have all this amazing talent.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Well, maybe not in too much trouble, but SSM wasn't having the best years of their studio fora long time.

2013: God of War Ascension released to tepid critical and commercial response. The IP was internally debated within Sony to be shelved or put on hiatus due to that.
2014: New IP Darkside was cancelled, and more than 50 Santa Monica employees were laid off. God of War project hastily accelerated in timeline which put pressure on Cory and co. Also underwent new studio relocation from Santa Monica.
2015: The Order 1886, a SSM-externally produced game was also released to tepid response. GoW3 Remastered also released to tepid sales. ( granted, the remaster was barely marketed was of really poor value )
2016: Sometime between late 2015 and early 2016, SSM gutted their external development team to focus solely on internal development. What Remains of Edith Finch was sold to Annapurna. And games like Wattam, etc was left in a limbo.
2017: Usual development challenges with any major AAA game. Cory likes to talk about how Atreus was often nearly cut from the game, etc etc.

Interesting, did they work on What Remains of Edith Finch? Or did they just sell the concept/idea? I had no idea there was a relation.
 

Tiago Rodrigues

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 15, 2018
5,244
Yeah. People complain about Sony not acquiring new studios but the truth is, they are growing the ones they have, while keeping their franchises fresh or creating new ones.
It's something great to witness and it's great to see them learning from past mistakes.

Sony Santa Monica were always extremely talented. I mean...they haven't done a bad God Of War game so far, and seeing this reboot doing so good is amazing.

Try to imagine a new GoW game on PS5...impossible not to be excited!
 

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
It's an amazing comeback, but I'm a little bummed they weren't able to deliver that new franchise. God of War is incredible, but I really live for new AAA properties like Horizon and Titanfall(2). Way too many sequels/reboots this gen imo.