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Sony PS5 HDMI 2.1 Bandwidth is Currently Capped at 32Gbps (vs Xbox Series X 40Gbps)

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We analysed the HDMI 2.1 output from the Sony PS5 (Playstation 5) console, and found that the maximum bandwidth it can deliver either at 4K@60Hz or 4K@120Hz is currently 32Gbps, which is lower than the 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 bandwidth on the Xbox Series X.
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I wonder if this is related to there not being VRR and ALLM which are HDMI 2.1 features.

What the lower bandwidth means is that less color information is delivered when the output is @ 120hz. Someone who knows more than me can correct me but in real terms 99.9% of people won't be able to notice the difference between a 32Gbps signal (120hz 4:2:2) and a 40Gbps signal (120hz 4:4:4).

Still it would be great if it did support 40Gbps, hopefully that can be updated in the future.
 
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Trago

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DontHateTheBacon

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I wish I understood any of this. Luckily, I don't think 120hz is going to really be much of a "thing" any time soon.

Bummer for PS5 owners though, I think?
 
shancake

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This would explain why I've been having weird washed out/crushed blacks with 4K/120 right?
 
bsigg

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That seems strange, but I trust Vincent's work so something seems either off or Sony cheaped out on the HDMI.
 
Prine

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bsigg said:
That seems strange, but I trust Vincent's work so something seems either off or Sony cheaped out on the HDMI.
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I'll watch the video shortly, but the description mentions output, I'm assuming this isnt about the cable by the system itself?
 
TheZynster

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delete said:




I wonder if this is related to there not being VRR and ALLM which are HDMI 2.1 features.

What the lower bandwidth means is that less color information is delivered when the output is @ 120hz. Someone who knows more than me can correct me but in real terms 99% of people won't be able to notice the difference between a 32Gbps signal and a 40Gbps signal. Still it would be great if it did support 40Gbps, hopefully that can be updated in the future.
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pretty sure Xbox one X had VRR just not the 2.1 VRR which is up to 120hz
 
Soulstoner

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First they refuse to include Dolby Atmos support because "Tempest 3D" but it only works with headphones, then they fail to include VRR at launch (sorely needed in AC:Valhalla), and now this.

Lots of little compromises over the years from their hardware, and its quite surprising and disappointing.
 
tapedeck

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Soooo this means less color depth available on PS5 at 4K/120fps than on Series X? Or am I reading that wrong?

Edit: nm I see my question was essentially answered.
 
RestEerie

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is this a hardware thing or a software thing?

either way, i feel that for this launch, sony seems abit rushed in terms of the hardware side of things (OS, packaging,etc) for the ps5 but makes it up with the software while microsoft is the complete opposite...their hardware & OS seems much more mature and stable but then the software is not there.

Can't have it both ways i guess.
 
defaltoption

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Uzupedro said:
I am dumb and I have a HDMI 2.0 TV(those 2 things are not related btw), does this matters in any way for me?
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No won't make a difference for your use case, it's bandwidth for hdmi 2.1 features. So for example you'll have to pick and choose more features to support at once rather then having them all available which is what the full hdmi 2.1 bandwidth of 48gbps can do. The more the better of course.
 
Elandyll

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Soulstoner said:
First they refuse to include Dolby Atmos support because "Tempest 3D" but it only works with headphones, then they fail to include VRR at launch (sorely needed in AC:Valhalla), and now this.

Lots of little compromises over the years from their hardware, and its quite surprising and disappointing.
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Otoh they have a Series X class console at $399...
They always said they designed the PS5 to be cost conscious, scalable easily, while powerful (same for the PS4 before it btw).
I think 4K/ 120hz just wasn't a priority for them in that way.
 
baconcow

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Not sure why these consoles were developed to use the entire 48 Gbps. Wouldn't this mean that neither consoles van do 4k + FreeSync Premium + 120 Hz + Dolby Vision + 4:4:4 at the same time? Does anyone know what 40 Gbps allows, at most?
 

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Soulstoner said:
First they refuse to include Dolby Atmos support because "Tempest 3D" but it only works with headphones, then they fail to include VRR at launch (sorely needed in AC:Valhalla), and now this.

Lots of little compromises over the years from their hardware, and its quite surprising and disappointing.
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it means absolutely nothing to the average consumer. No cares except people making YouTube videos and people on message boards. People play games they don't worry about hdmi bandwidth or color rate. The games are still going to look and play equally great.
 
KeyboardThug

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baconcow said:
Not sure why these consoles were developed to use the entire 48 Gbps. Wouldn't this mean that neither consoles van do 4k + FreeSync Premium + 120 Hz + Dolby Vision + 4:4:4 at the same time? Does anyone know what 40 Gbps allows, at most?
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With 40 Gbps you can do all that. The only thing the last 8 are for is a 12 bit panel. This is how I understand it at least.
 
Spasm

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Anyone wondering what the difference is between 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 chroma subsampling should check out Rting's very informative page on the subject.

Bottom line is, unless you're using your display as a PC monitor, you will most likely never notice the difference in color accuracy between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2.
 
Expy

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Firmware update can solve this.

Very few titles even run at 4K 120 so I suppose it wasn't a priority for Sony at launch.
 
Pheonix

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Flutta said:
That explains why it's not labelled as 2.1 I guess.
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No it does not.

At 4K60hz mode, the PS5 outputs the full 4:4:4 chroma with 12bit color depth. When outputting at 120fps, it drops the chroma to 4:2:2. Basically using the same bandwidth but with less color information. Basically, sony optimized their chipset specifically for a 4K60Hz output. It could have been worse, it could have been 4:2:0.

But this s a non-issue, this is one of those things that no one would probably notice unless you were told.
 
RestEerie

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Uzupedro said:
I am dumb and I have a HDMI 2.0 TV(those 2 things are not related btw), does this matters in any way for me?
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0 difference for u (and me).

HDMI2.0 tv can't even display the full RGB range with HDR enabled due to the HDMI2.0 bandwidth limitation.....this is only for newer tvs with HDMI2.1 specs
 
Doctre81

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Soulstoner said:
First they refuse to include Dolby Atmos support because "Tempest 3D" but it only works with headphones, then they fail to include VRR at launch (sorely needed in AC:Valhalla), and now this.

Lots of little compromises over the years from their hardware, and its quite surprising and disappointing.
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Atmos works on ps5. Just choose Dolby bistream. It does it just like the ps4 does
 
Minthara

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It should be noted that this can, hypothetically, be patched, as pointed out in the video, as long as it isn't a hardware limitation (which is unlikely).

Bishop89 said:
Is there any difference in real world terms?
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Essentially it only really matters when gaming at 4k and 120 Hz, but gaming at that level will drop it from 4:4:4 Chroma down to 4:4:2.


baconcow said:
Not sure why these consoles were developed to use the entire 48 Gbps. Wouldn't this mean that neither consoles van do 4k + FreeSync Premium + 120 Hz + Dolby Vision + 4:4:4 at the same time? Does anyone know what 40 Gbps allows, at most?
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I'm guessing that the lack of VRR and such on launch for the PS5 means Sony went for minimum viable product and are planning to patch what they can in later.

I doubt Dolby Vision being a thing but I could see a patch fixing this issue and the VRR bit in the near future.
 

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Pheonix said:
No it does not.

At 4K60hz mode, the PS5 outputs the full 4:4:4 chroma with 12bit color depth. When outputting at 120fps, it drops the chroma to 4:2:2. Basically using the same bandwidth but with less color information. Basically, sony optimized their chipset specifically for a 4K60Hz output. It could have been worse, it could have been 4:2:0.

But this s a non-issue, this is one of those things that no one would probably notice unless you were told.
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aight thanks. So ill get a new cable when i make a TV upgrade then.
 
Stooge

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The "good news" is if you have an HDMI 2.1 reciever that has the hardware bug the PS5 still displays properly.

This isn't a huge deal, but it's annoying and will marginally impact picture quality due to 4:2:2.

The HDR wrapper for SD content is a bigger issue
 
Rickyrozay2o9

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Spasm said:
Anyone wondering what the difference is between 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 chroma subsampling should check out Rting's very informative page on the subject.

Bottom line is, unless you're using your display as a PC monitor, you will most likely never notice the difference in color accuracy between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2.
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Hmm well seeing as I'm playing on an lgc9 and in PC mode I'm guessing this would affect me but if it can be updated then I'd imagine it will once they get the vrr situation straightened out.
 
Teamocil

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Soulstoner said:
First they refuse to include Dolby Atmos support because "Tempest 3D" but it only works with headphones, then they fail to include VRR at launch (sorely needed in AC:Valhalla), and now this.

Lots of little compromises over the years from their hardware, and its quite surprising and disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Isn't AC Valhalla fine on PS5? Don't get me wrong, no VRR is stupid but I don't think it's sorely needed in AC Valhalla. PS5, just XSX
 
Lump

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baconcow said:
Not sure why these consoles were developed to use the entire 48 Gbps. Wouldn't this mean that neither consoles van do 4k + FreeSync Premium + 120 Hz + Dolby Vision + 4:4:4 at the same time? Does anyone know what 40 Gbps allows, at most?
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40 Gbps is theoretically just fine because it can do 4k 120hz at 4:4:4 with 10 bit color. You need 48 Gbps to do all that at 12 bit color, but all the consumer TV panels on the market right now aren't 12 bit anyway, so it shouldn't make a difference. Now if you really get into the weeds of the subject, you'll find some enthusiasts out there that say color banding can be slightly reduced on some sets (depending on the each set's color processing) if reducing 12 bit signals to 10 bit - so technically the full 48 Gbps might be better (or not) on a case-by-case basis, but that gets into some real split hairs territory.

32 Gbps, on the other hand, looks like it'll see a slight loss in color detail as the signal drops to 4:2:2. If you're pretty close to the set, you can make out the difference in 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 in finer color details. For most people, it'll still probably be just fine, but it's going to be a more measurable difference.
 
Minthara

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xJavontax said:
Isn't AC Valhalla fine on PS5? Don't get me wrong, no VRR is stupid but I don't think it's sorely needed in AC Valhalla. PS5, just XSX
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Valhalla still drops frames, which is what VRR would smooth over.

Pretty much every game in existence drops frames at least once, and that's what the aim is for.

Valhalla is just extra noticeable because the differences between the two consoles is pronounced and the game also tears like crazy.
 
Teamocil

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Thanatos said:
Valhalla still drops frames, which is what VRR would smooth over.

Pretty much every game in existence drops frames at least once, and that's what the aim is for.

Valhalla is just extra noticeable because the differences between the two consoles is pronounced and the game also tears like crazy.
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Yeah for sure. I have it on XSX, not PS5 so I have no experience with it on that platform (I also haven't seen any dropped frames, likely due to VRR support on Xbox) but I've been seeing that it runs much better on PS5 all over the internet.
 
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