Sony & Microsoft should manufacture for open pre-orders

Nerd_Incognito · Dec 12, 2020

Instead of the general public trying to pounce on online listings the second they go live or braving retailers searching for limited stock what both Sony & Microsoft should do is open up orders and then fulfill on a chronological basis (with limitations of course).

So a customer can place an order for their system of choice, perhaps limited to 1 per household, and they will be given an estimated delivery date. Due to manufacturing conditions that might be anywhere from a few weeks to several months but the customer is guaranteed to get their system directly from the manufacturer without paying mark ups or for bundle items they're not interested in.

Manufacturing limited waves of stock and releasing at arbitrary times to the general public and unfortunately bots and scalpers who are preventing people who genuinely want the a system for themselves is clearly not working. This goes for all of the new GPUs on the market as well.

Meg Cherry · Dec 12, 2020

The problem is this cuts retail out of the entire model, and once you do that they stop stocking the console entirely.

giancarlo123x · Dec 12, 2020

Sounds like a pain when they can just keep making them and selling them out instantly. All they want is your money no matter where it comes from.

TheInfinityGauntlet · Dec 12, 2020

This leads to entitled Americans blowing up customer support with WHERE'S MY CONSOLE REEEEEEEE

xxracerxx · Dec 12, 2020

Customers are guaranteed to get a system in a few months anyway.

DanGo · Dec 12, 2020

Nerd_Incognito said:
Manufacturing limited waves of stock and releasing at arbitrary times to the general public and unfortunately bots and scalpers who are preventing people who genuinely want the a system for themselves is clearly not working. This goes for all of the new GPUs on the market as well.

Yeah... I don't think manufacturers want to be shipping consoles overseas one by one instead of in massive bulk... unless you think consumers want to pay even more.

pg2g · Dec 12, 2020

I agree, it'd be much nicer to order and have an estimated ship date instead of spending a bunch of time trying to get lucky.

Tobor · Dec 12, 2020

Mushroomer25 said:
The problem is this cuts retail out of the entire model, and once you do that they stop stocking the console entirely.

Apple does exactly this model and still does business with all the major retailers, but that's Apple.

Deleted member 63122 · Dec 12, 2020

Tobor said:
Apple does exactly this model and still does business with all the major retailers, but that's Apple.

The thing is Apple you need to get a provider anyways, with consoles, you can buy everything (if you want through the digital store.)

kyoya · Dec 12, 2020

Unpopular opinion: We're lucky to get anything in this pandemic.

MasonADC · Dec 12, 2020

But what if you have to order more than one? That would suck

Irnbru · Dec 12, 2020

They'd most likely need to restructure their entire logistics and supply chain infra to do this and is most likely not worth the investment

Exit Music · Dec 12, 2020

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
This leads to entitled Americans blowing up customer support with WHERE'S MY CONSOLE REEEEEEEE

This feels kind of unnecessary.

The correct answer is that it completely undermines the entire retail distribution system and that won't go over well.

The Argus · Dec 12, 2020

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
This leads to entitled Americans blowing up customer support with WHERE'S MY CONSOLE REEEEEEEE

How is this just an American thing? What a weird post.

clickKunst · Dec 12, 2020

Eh, I'm happy to wait and let the early adopters stress test the console. Life's not a race.

bsigg · Dec 12, 2020

I think there's value in MS and Sony being able to offer more directly with the ability to do long term sale fulfilment but it shouldn't replace the ability to find one in a store or online from another retailer.

WhtR88t · Dec 12, 2020

storres said:
The thing is Apple you need to get a provider anyways, with consoles, you can buy everything (if you want through the digital store.)

I don't need to get a provider for my iPad, MacBook, iMac etc…

Deleted member 63122 · Dec 12, 2020

WhtR88t said:
I don't need to get a provider for my iPad, MacBook, iMac etc…

True, only was thinking about phones. You are right.

EchoChamber · Dec 12, 2020

You are looking a fix to a temporal problem eventually everyone will have their console.

kitler53 · Dec 12, 2020

since there appear to be a minority of people willing to pay a premium for immediate access to consoles i think sony and MS should just do a "priority ordering" where you are guaranteed to get it but they sell it too you at a $100 premium (aka $600). the regular retailers will still have high demand because they have it for cheaper. for people with more money than sense they can get one right away without the risks associated with scalpers. and scalpers will have a hard time making a good business out of this because there will be a hard ceiling on what they can charge.

...or maybe that's a terrible idea. but it make sense to me unless of course there are too many people willing to pay $600 for a console.

WhtR88t · Dec 12, 2020

I also don't really understand why retailers can't just keep back-orders open. Just fulfill the orders in the order they're placed and stock comes in.

On Apple's site you can order AirPod Max headphones, that you won't get in 12-14 weeks, but at least you know you're in the queue and will get them in 12-14 weeks. I really don't understand why Sony, Microsoft, AMD and NVIDIA can't do the same.

Deleted member 7051 · Dec 12, 2020

I like the idea being floated around that you pay a deposit to guarantee yourself a console and the earlier you pay that deposit, the sooner you get the console. If you put a deposit down within a certain time frame, you'd be guaranteed a console on launch day and the deposits would help console manufacturers know roughly how many consoles they need to make for it.

HebrewHammer · Dec 12, 2020

This solution only angers retail partners, not to mention customers when they're waiting three months for a PS5 like it's a Peloton.

NinjaScooter · Dec 12, 2020

WhtR88t said:
I also don't really understand why retailers can't just keep back-orders open. Just fulfill the orders in the order they're placed and stock comes in.

On Apple's site you can order AirPod Max headphones, that you won't get in 12-14 weeks, but at least you know you're in the queue and will get them in 12-14 weeks. I really don't understand why Sony, Microsoft, AMD and NVIDIA can't do the same.

I don't think they have the distribution infrastructure for it, nor the urgency to create it. Apple releases multiple anticipated products a year, and has so for about a decade. For Sony and MS this is an issue that occurs for 4-6 months every 6 years so.

Inside · Dec 12, 2020

You do this with a car. Go to the dealer, place an order, and you get a number on the production line.
But it makes sense when you plan a production for a large item as a car. You can group the cars with the same paint color in the same lot, so the delivery date depends on the type and style of car you choose.

A PS5 is a mass produced item, with no customization. They are produced as fast as possible, loaded into containers as fast as possible, and shipped once the 20 foot container is full. I don't see it make any sense to allocate numbers and names into each of these consoles. It sounds like a logistic nightmare. So this 20 foot container, it should go to Europe or USA? So the production should go from "produce all you can" to think about regions and where to send the machines?. And all consoles should be traceable to make sure that the machine you ordered are on time and sent as it should.

It just does not make sense in the way we mass produce.

WhtR88t · Dec 12, 2020

NinjaScooter said:
I don't think they have the distribution infrastructure for it, nor the urgency to create it. Apple releases multiple anticipated products a year, and has so for about a decade. For Sony and MS this is an issue that occurs for 4-6 months every 6 years so.

Does distribution infrastructure have anything to do with keeping a log of the back orders and fulfilling them in the order they were placed?

Best Buy knows someday they're doing to get PS5's in stock. They just just ship them to people who placed their order.

CostcoCousteau · Dec 12, 2020

allow only 1 console per purchase/person/card number (per day since they sellout in seconds)or something. They have to get better at this. No more bots please. maybe half online/ half in-store inventory split also. maybe pay upfront months ahead of manufacturing and/or ahead of being sent to stores. You could pay Sony/Mcsft or the store.

BAD · Dec 12, 2020

Apple does this with its site and partner retailers and it is perfect. Stupid as fuck the way consoles do this.

CloudsFromSpace · Dec 12, 2020

WhtR88t said:
I also don't really understand why retailers can't just keep back-orders open. Just fulfill the orders in the order they're placed and stock comes in.

On Apple's site you can order AirPod Max headphones, that you won't get in 12-14 weeks, but at least you know you're in the queue and will get them in 12-14 weeks. I really don't understand why Sony, Microsoft, AMD and NVIDIA can't do the same.

Seriously. It's so simple. We all know that adequate stock will be here eventually. Why can't Walmart, Amazon, Best Buy, etc., generate a first-come first-serve automatic queue system for the interim?

Jonnax · Dec 12, 2020

That's quite a change but I think it's totally possible.
Plenty of companies sell direct and through their own store.

But retailers really should "innovate" here.
Like why can't someone order a console when it's out of stock?
The retailer is going to get more stock sometime in the future.
Plenty of people wouldn't mind ordering and getting a console sometime in the future.

Like I bought a TV from a store a few days ago.
They said "We've got 400 on backorder, yours will be delivered straight to your home when we get them in"

How simple is that? These dumb retailers don't want money.

NinjaScooter · Dec 12, 2020

WhtR88t said:
Does distribution infrastructure have anything to do with keeping a log of the back orders and fulfilling them in the order they were placed?

Best Buy knows someday they're doing to get PS5's in stock. They just just ship them to people who placed their order.

They aren't equipped to do that now, so why would they change their business processes for a temporary rush for consoles that release every 6 years? Realistically its not like Sony/MS or their retail partners are being hurt by this stuff so they really have no incentive to change.

Jonnax said:
How simple is that? These dumb retailers don't want money.

They are selling every console they get as soon as it comes in. In fact they can often take advantage of the shortages and make more money selling people bundles that include a bunch of extra shit people don't want or need. How exactly does this equate to the idea that they "don't want money"?

Jonnax · Dec 12, 2020

NinjaScooter said:
They are selling every console they get as soon as it comes in. In fact they can often take advantage of the shortages and make more money selling people bundles that include a bunch of extra shit people don't want or need. How exactly does this equate to the idea that they "don't want money"?

Because people have to constantly check for a chance to order a console.
Like look at this picture below.

You can't click buy. You have to hope that you visit the page sometime and be able to order it.
Whilst if someone could click to buy a reservation that gets them in the list of people who'll receive consoles as they come in

With a warning that it could take weeks (or months) for them to get the console of course.

I think most people would be happy to order and wait.

You could even offer that service with a bundle only

NinjaScooter · Dec 12, 2020

Jonnax said:
Because people have to constantly check for a chance to order a console.
Like look at this picture below.

You can't click buy. You have to hope that you visit the page sometime and be able to order it.
Whilst if someone could click to buy a reservation that gets them in the list of people who'll receive consoles as they come in

With a warning that it could take weeks (or months) for them to get the console of course.

I think most people would be happy to order and wait.

You could even offer that service with a bundle only

Im guessing they don't want to take preorders without knowing when/if they will be provided inventory. Look I agree they could do things better, the problem is that this rush for PS5s is fleeting, in 6 months anybody who wants one will be able to get one, so I imagine these publishers and retailers would rather just power through this than make wholesale changes to their business processes for something that might only last a few months. Ultimately there is no incentive for them to do things any differently.

Faenix1 · Dec 12, 2020

I figured that's how all access would work.

Sign up, and if you qualify youd eventually get a console.
Nah its the same race as normal, just with extra steps.

Absoludacrous · Dec 12, 2020

Jonnax said:
That's quite a change but I think it's totally possible.
Plenty of companies sell direct and through their own store.

But retailers really should "innovate" here.
Like why can't someone order a console when it's out of stock?
The retailer is going to get more stock sometime in the future.
Plenty of people wouldn't mind ordering and getting a console sometime in the future.

Like I bought a TV from a store a few days ago.
They said "We've got 400 on backorder, yours will be delivered straight to your home when we get them in"

How simple is that? These dumb retailers don't want money.

You're dealing with a much higher demand than that TV. If you just take preorders out to the tens/hundreds of thousands, you're in for a rough time down the road. A lot of the people farther down your list are going to cancel as they get systems quicker from other retailers. If you charge upfront you're tracking millions of dollars that you can't actually count yet because they could get yanked at any moment. If you charge at ship you're dealing with tons of refunds from people who didn't cancel when they should have.

Logistically it's a lot messier than just not having any stock to sell to people for a few months.

Deleted member 64666 · Dec 12, 2020

Mushroomer25 said:
The problem is this cuts retail out of the entire model, and once you do that they stop stocking the console entirely.

Or just 3/5 consoles produced could go to satisfy an order, while the remaining portion would go to stores... It's really not that crazy. It just requires a bit more management.

Anarion07 · Dec 12, 2020

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
This leads to entitled Americans blowing up customer support with WHERE'S MY CONSOLE REEEEEEEE

AFAIK you shouldnt use the reee thing, but i get what you mean

ZeoVGM · Dec 12, 2020

The Argus said:
How is this just an American thing? What a weird post.

It also includes the really gross "autistic screech" meme, which seems to be getting overlooked by the mods.

nillapuddin · Dec 12, 2020

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
This leads to entitled Americans blowing up customer support with WHERE'S MY CONSOLE REEEEEEEE

You will get in trouble for that language btw

CostcoCousteau · Dec 12, 2020

so dont do shit and in 6 yrs bots will get 90% of the units for resellers non resellers are just fucked forever right? Dont try to do better? and this isnt just an every 6yr console thing. its for any hot new item and itll get worse

ZeoVGM · Dec 12, 2020

nillapuddin said:
You will get in trouble for that language btw

Apparently not!

Einbroch · Dec 12, 2020

Mushroomer25 said:
The problem is this cuts retail out of the entire model, and once you do that they stop stocking the console entirely.

Apple does it and retail has no issue selling their products.

RoaringMdog · Dec 12, 2020

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
This leads to entitled Americans blowing up customer support with WHERE'S MY CONSOLE REEEEEEEE

Riiight, because only americans are impatient. What an unnecessary post.

cakely · Dec 12, 2020

Nerd_Incognito said:
Instead of the general public trying to pounce on online listings the second they go live or braving retailers searching for limited stock what both Sony & Microsoft should do is open up orders and then fulfill on a chronological basis (with limitations of course).

So a customer can place an order for their system of choice, perhaps limited to 1 per household, and they will be given an estimated delivery date. Due to manufacturing conditions that might be anywhere from a few weeks to several months but the customer is guaranteed to get their system directly from the manufacturer without paying mark ups or for bundle items they're not interested in.

Manufacturing limited waves of stock and releasing at arbitrary times to the general public and unfortunately bots and scalpers who are preventing people who genuinely want the a system for themselves is clearly not working. This goes for all of the new GPUs on the market as well.

Yes, we need back-orders for consoles, and GPUs. No question about it.

The current system only benefits the scalpers.

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
This leads to entitled Americans blowing up customer support with WHERE'S MY CONSOLE REEEEEEEE

That's pretty offensive.

StereoVSN · Dec 12, 2020

Mushroomer25 said:
The problem is this cuts retail out of the entire model, and once you do that they stop stocking the console entirely.

Somehow that works alright for Apple and they manage to stock their products in BestBuy, Walmart, Target, Amazon just fine.

ZeoVGM · Dec 12, 2020

cakely said:
That's pretty offensive.

Report it. I did hours ago and it seems to have gotten overlooked.

That's pretty blatant stuff that I would expect at the other place.

NameUser · Dec 12, 2020

BAD said:
Apple does this with its site and partner retailers and it is perfect. Stupid as fuck the way consoles do this.

Yup. Been saying this for years.

Fabtacular · Dec 12, 2020

If they were content to sell direct, it would be easy: Just limit preorders to PSN/XBL accounts that have spent $100 or more (total) in the past three years. Have everyone sign up for a lottery type system where once everyone's name is in a hat, they get put in order randomly and sent consoles as they become available. Credit card charged has to be the one on-file for the account for at least six months.

Do all your initial stock that way, then three months post launch start shipping to retail.

Deleted member 50374 · Dec 12, 2020

No reason for them not to do it. And if they won't do it, retail at some point will. I am in line for a 3080 after all.

ZeoVGM · Dec 12, 2020

themuzzotheory said:
No reason for them not to do it. And if they won't do it, retail at some point will. I am in line for a 3080 after all.

I feel like retail would have already done this by now if they were going to.

Sony & Microsoft should manufacture for open pre-orders

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