Sony contacted Vice due to more critical review of The Last of Us Part II

[Serenity Lotus]

I find it fascinating how people will cling to a set of tweets as if it is gospel and covers every single occurrence. While I am not at all going to diminish the shit Austin and others went through. I am also not going to act like that is the only possible outcome in these type of situations. Hell, we have people in this very topic saying that they were in similar situations and nothing nefarious occurred or happened after their contact.

Odd thing for Sony to do. Without a doubt. As I stated earlier. I just don't think it is a simple 'black or white' situation that so many are going with.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

They should in a professional manner, which they did.

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The contact in itself is the issue no matter how nice they are. In my business experience, the most "cordial"/friendly conversations are typically the most threatening. It's called a "veiled threat".

 

[tutomos]

just because sony was "cordial" doesn't make this professional in the slightest

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In my opinion, it is.

 

[Nali]

Publishers have no business contacting critics about their critiques.

 

[Got Danny]

Meh, Who cares...

 

[tutomos]

The contact in itself is the issue no matter how nice they are. In my business experience, the most "cordial"/friendly conversations are typically the most threatening. It's called a "veiled threat".

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So you are saying in this case it is definitely a veiled threat like you described. I'd like to see more evidence before I jump into that conclusion.

 

[Mifec]

The reviewer himself have made statements which are objective

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Here you go friend, good video to watch

 

[ClickyCal']

Is this really that huge of a deal relatively?

 

[dep9000]

of course people here are defending sony

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They're nothing if not professional

 

[Viale]

So all the outlets who gave bad reviews for the first TLOU or Uncharted 4 didn't get a review copy for part 2? Better bring the receipts.

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Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say this is false or at least not completely true. Washington post gave uncharted 4 a 4/10 (which is weird but w/e) and they were right there posting their LoU2 review on the embargo date on June 12th.

Polygon was also one of the ones that gave a lower review to the first last of us(7.5, but there weren't many low reviews for last of us 1 in general) and we know they had 2 early as well.

Another site that gave the remaster the lowest score on MC (place called gamer.no) also seemed to have last of us 2 before embargo.

 

[srtrestre]

Those Austin tweets should really be in the OP.

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Wish there was a way to pin all the tweets from journalists coming forward due to this story so they can be visible on every page.

But who am I kidding, that's not going to stop all the "but Sony was just asking for a simple clarification!" takes.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

fuck this is pathetic

 

[TorianElecdra]

Miyamoto can't relate.

 

[Crushed]

 

[jviggy43]

The only snowflakes are the commentators in this thread. Jesus.

If you spend six years making something that is widely praised and then read a review that appears - to you as the creator - to dismiss core tenets of your work, wouldn't you be interested in why the critic interpreted your work that way?

The review conclusion contains summary lines such as:

" Every facet of the original game has been expanded and enlarged in the sequel, but not actually improved. "

" There is practically nothing here we haven't seen and done repeatedly throughout previous Naughty Dog games. "

You don't have to love the story, I get it, but dismissing the game as unimproved is factually incorrect. I imagine this is what Sony wanted clarified.

To be fair here, it was not Sony or ND throwing shade at this critic in public in order to defend their name and game, they asked those questions in private. They didn't ask for them to change the review (as far as I know). What exactly is the problem here?

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None of these quotes you provided here are statements of fact that can or can't be proven. Theyre statements of opinion. Its really weird seeing people quote this acting like this is somehow damming of Rob's review. It isn't factually incorrect if he didn't feel it improved the gameplay. Theres nothing factual about it, its a statement of opinion.

 

[Lowrys]

But they can have an opinion on media opinion/review of a game, can't they?

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Of course. The problem is when they start questioning reviewers. Comes across as incredibly thin-skinned at best.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

It's never a veiled threat if they're cordial!

Spoiler

 

[WordsintheWater]

Eh, it's nothing as blanket as that. Honestly, sometimes it's just PR being strategic, which is their...job? I've been at outlets where we'd later learn the reason we received a review copy later was because PR had listened to a podcast, deduced who was likely to do the review, guessed at the review score, translated that score into Metacritic, and then decided to send us a review copy at launch, rather than ahead of launch, so it would impact the "launch" Metacritic average later.

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Wow, that's just crazy lengths to me to ensure a game gets a more favorable score, but like you said I guess that's their job. Thank you for providing some context here.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

So congratulating a terrible person is okay with you?

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Why do you all care?

People on this forum act like a minimal interaction like following a person on twitter, or speaking with them, or being in the presence of someone with condemnable views is them fully supporting those views.

"He gave a congratulatory remark, he must be as racist as Colin"

 

[Lord Fanny]

Some of you all need to stop replying to a certain user about the review lol. It's obvious they are just trolling at this point to dismiss any criticism the review had, just let it go. They aren't trying to be reasonable and have drug out their nonsense for like almost half this thread.

 

[OnanieBomb]

Sony is like that shitty entitled parent who raises a stink when their child gets a B+ instead of an A.

 

[metalgear89]

of course people here are defending sony

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Put tlou2 or naughty dog in the thread title and it makes the rabid sony fanboys come out in force.

 

[tzare]

Way to downplay it to "giving them a free copy of a $60 game." If they don't have a review copy with all the other major publications that will materially hurt them. It's not just a $60 game they're getting for free. They are in competition for your attention. If another outlet has the review when the embargo lifts and these guys don't, yeah it's going to affect them more than just having to pay $60 and get the game a few weeks later.

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You want independence, you have to deal with some difficulties. You can make really good articles even if a few days after release may hurt you in the short term, and eventually make people read them if quality is there.
If you need the 'help' of the publisher, you are giving them a fraction of your independence.

 

[sonicmj1]

People are mistaken for communication with pressure. I can ask a mod why someone was banned for clarification but that doesn't mean the mod is being pressured to do anything. It's all part of the communication that people in the real world do.

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That's because you have no way of exerting pressure on a mod as a user of this site.

Sony, on the other hand, controls all pre-release and developer access that game outlets have, and has a number of ways to make Vice's life harder if they choose.

Perhaps a better (though still imperfect) example would be if a moderator, on behalf of ResetEra, DM'd you over a post they believed was "unfair" and "overly dismissive". Even if you explained yourself and the conversation ended cordially without any disciplinary action, you'd be entirely justified in feeling pressured. This would be true even if the moderator did not intend to come off as pressuring you (though I'm sure in this case Sony PR knows exactly what they're doing). They hold more power over you in this context than you do over them.

Any media's going to have its critics, and that's fine. There's no reason to engage unless you're okay with giving off the impression that you want to suppress criticism. If you really want more feedback from that specific individual, there are surely ways to do it that don't carry a veiled threat to the business model of the outlet you're dealing with.

 

[Deleted member 46804]

They should in a professional manner, which they did.

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Why should Sony do it? What exactly do they gain?

 

[WordsintheWater]

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So I guess he was thinking about those families huh...

I really like that journalists are actually speaking out about these experiences.

 

[Garrett 2U]

You wildly misunderstood that story if you're talking about the Mitch Dyer thing.

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That is what I was referencing, and you're right, I was misunderstanding. I think my sentiment is still true, but I edited my post to better reflect it! Thank you

 

[cantbebothered]

It's never a veiled threat if they're cordial!

Spoiler

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thats not funny

Put tlou2 or naughty dog in the thread title and it makes the rabid sony fanboys come out in force.

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lmfao. the irony in this post lol

 

[dep9000]

Those Austin tweets should really be in the OP.

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After seeing your post I had to search through the thread to find them. Yeah, this should likely be threadmarked or be in the OP. Very relevant

You want independence, you have to deal with some difficulties. You can make really good articles even if a few days after release may hurt you in the short term, and eventually make people read them if quality is there.
If you need the 'help' of the publisher, you are giving them a fraction of your independence.

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Well that's a take alright

 

[lupinko]

duckman's influence

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[srtrestre]

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Sigh.

 

[packy17]

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Classic anti-critic thinking. "Saying bad things is mean because people worked hard on this."

Product criticism isn't personal.

 

[newmoneytrash]

Why do you all care?

People on this forum act like a minimal interaction like following a person on twitter, or speaking with them, or being in the presence of someone with condemnable views is them fully supporting those views.

"He gave a congratulatory remark, he must be as racist as Colin"

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it's not like it's a one off. since being exposed as sexist and racist neil has still had continued interaction with colin while he's basically been ostracised by the rest of the industry

i don't think it's unfair for people to make a character judgement based on that. neil can't be ignorant to who and what colin is, and is either actively choosing to ignore it or accepts it

 

[ProstatePuncher]

Seriously embarassing stuff.

 

[Deleted member 46804]

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She should have told him to stop making his devs crunch on a piece of entertainment. What an asshole!

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

So you are saying in this case it is definitely a veiled threat like you described. I'd like to see more evidence before I jump into that conclusion.

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The simple solution is the communication should have never happened in the first place.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

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This isn't the first time I've heard of something like this happening. USUALLY it's the publisher doing it rather than the developer but I'm sure some developers have felt brazen enough to do it too.

 

[GearDraxon]

You know, console warring is normally just tiring and embarrassing to read on here.

When you can't stop stanning for your favorite plastic box / dev / whatever for 5 seconds to recognize that someone's review of a game is just their review, and immediately leap to "I wonder if they even played the game," you need to think about how incredibly stupid and childish you seem.

The game is widely-acclaimed. Most people think it's at least pretty good. Stop acting like one person's professional, well-thought-out reasons for disliking it are a personal affront to you. Stop being willfully obtuse, reading lines like "are enlarged but not improved" as "evidence that they didn't play the game," and instead take them for what they are: the opinion that the changes made didn't make the game better. Recognize that someone not liking your thing is just that, and get a life.

 

[Gold Arsene]

The reviewer himself have made statements which are objective

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.......that's how they feel?

 

[jack_package_200]

Miyamoto can't relate.

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Lmao

 

[tzare]

Of course. The problem is when they start questioning reviewers. Comes across as incredibly thin-skinned at best.

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It seems that happens in the industry.As i said before, maybe media outlets should be the first to see if this is a problem and pressure, as a whole, the gaming industry (they are really powerful too) to behave equally with all of them.. And questioning reviewers why they wrote this or that , reviewers your gave early access to your work seems fair to me, as long it is done right, which seems the way this particular case (and unlike the Detroit case from those tweets).

 

[Adventureracing]

It feels like every other day posters here are given a new test to see just how many things they can defend their favourite gaming company doing.

 

[SonicFighterV]

I don't understand this Naughty Dog or Sony defense one bit. There will be 100s of reviews, each with their own ways of interpreting or dealing with the game. Someone in power reaching out to you, that someone who is capable of having a direct impact(benefit) on the score and the site itself, is just unethical. Stop trying to justify the way it was said. The judging stick for companies and people here seems to be so arbitrary.

 

[Shark]

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Yikes.

The fact that some in the industry would find this a normal or reasonable interaction shows the relationship between the two entities is waaaaaay too close.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

it's not like it's a one off. since being exposed as sexist and racist neil has still had continued interaction with colin while he's basically been ostracised by the rest of the industry

i don't think it's unfair for people to make a character judgement based on that. neil can't be ignorant to who and what colin is, and is either actively choosing to ignore it or accepts it

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OK. At least you gave some context

 

[Paine]

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Maybe I'm being accusatory but didn't she review Uncharted 4? And didn't ND employees have to go through extreme crunch to get it out the door? 🤔

 

[Kadab]

Put tlou2 or naughty dog in the thread title and it makes the rabid sony fanboys come out in force.

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[deepFlaw]

Why do you all care?

People on this forum act like a minimal interaction like following a person on twitter, or speaking with them, or being in the presence of someone with condemnable views is them fully supporting those views.

"He gave a congratulatory remark, he must be as racist as Colin"

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Repeated interactions, including when Colin left Kinda Funny, would make me think he knows who Colin is and what he's known for. And with regards to "presence" it's not like he was just standing around him or attending the same party or got photographed near him by chance or anything like that; you don't have to tweet at someone to congratulate them on stuff, lol.

But I seriously don't think he's as racist as Colin or anything like that. Don't get it twisted. I just think he's selfish enough not to care about Colin's beliefs and the ability to do harm that Colin and his audience wield.

 

[reclaimerzzzzz]

Maybe I'm being accusatory but didn't she review Uncharted 4? And didn't ND employees have to go through extreme crunch to get it out the door? 🤔

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Uncharted 4 got a 9 out of her, hardly a negative review. I don't see any reason to 'make peace' with a 9.

 

[Garrett 2U]

There were no threats or demands made and Rob describes the conversation as "cordial," but people need to understand that there is absolutely an element of soft power being pushed by Sony here. By reaching out to Vice and making their disapproval with the review known, Sony is indirectly reminding Vice that they control things like who gets code, who gets to attend preview events, etc. The Last of Us review isn't changing. Both Sony and Vice know what a PR nightmare that would be. But you're being willfully ignorant if you don't think Sony wants Vice to be at least a little bit worried about the repercussions if their Ghost of Tsushima review comes out similarly. I personally trust the Waypoint crew to not bend to that pressure, but I don't trust Sony to not use the power that they hold over them. I mean, they've done it before.

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This is not good