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Sony and closing down online servers
- Thread starter ThisIsBlitz21
- Start date
this.
I know there will always be cases where the shutdown sucks for a handful of people, but in the grand scheme of things... nobody cares.
This is a legitimate opinion of course and the truth - otherwise they wouldn't have shut down the multiplayer servers in the first place... BUT there's no excuse when I can still play practically all PS3/360 era Ubisoft and EA games online. Some after even 12 years. It can't be that expensive to keep up those servers, regardless of popularity.
I'm almost certain the Azure group will be charging the Xbox division to use those servers. That's how it works in most big IT companies like MS. So those servers won't be free.
Without looking into it, I'm willing to bet Gaikai has nothing to do with PSN (Playstation Network and the game servers this thread is about), since they're the streaming company Sony bought out to do their Playstation Now streaming service (a different PSN).
What they've done with Driveclub and especially for me, Gravity Rush 2, is pretty fucking disgusting.
what's the point of paying for your arbitrary ass Online paywall if it doesn't even secure that asynchronous MP games stay online?
what's the point of paying for your arbitrary ass Online paywall if it doesn't even secure that asynchronous MP games stay online?
I notice is Sony is closing game servers for their online offerings left and right, no matter what console.
Let's look at the Gran Turismo series first. GT5, the best selling PS3 exclusive (scertainly didnt sell nearly as well as GT5, is still up and running. 12 years and counting. Burnout Paradise original shut down just recently, after 11 years (and that game has a remaster, so the online isnt completely lost to time).
Extends to pretty much all first party PS3 games now. Not trying to turn this into console wars, lets just see how it compares to MS's games:
Uncharted 2, 3, Last of Us, Killzone 2, 3, Resistance trilogy, Warhawk, GT5, GT6, Motorstorm, Twisted Metal, Wipeout HD, among most others, all down now. Uncharted couldve been mitigated if the remaster had multiplayer, but it didnt.
Forza Motorsport 2, 3, 4, Horizon, Halo 3, Reach, 4, Gears trilogy, Perfect Dark Zero, Project Gotham 4, all still up and running.
Sony has been making money hand over fist this generation, and somehow they can't afford to keep all those servers up? While MS have been doing the significantly worse than the 360 gen, but still managing to keep up the online mode for their older games.
I love Gran Turismo Sport and its GaaS model. But, I have a lingering fear that in just a couple of years they shut it down, redeeming almost the entire game useless due to to how heavily tied the game is to online.
It's extends to PS4 games too. Of course Gravity Rush and Driveclub, both being shut down prematurely before the generation is even ended.
Thoughts? I dont want this to be seen as a thread where I'm needless bashing Sony. Some of their decisions lately have been good, like backwards compatibility on PS5, and finally opening up to Minecraft crossplay, among others. This is something I'd thought I'd bri[/QUOTE]
Well Microsoft has a lot more money.
Let's look at the Gran Turismo series first. GT5, the best selling PS3 exclusive (scertainly didnt sell nearly as well as GT5, is still up and running. 12 years and counting. Burnout Paradise original shut down just recently, after 11 years (and that game has a remaster, so the online isnt completely lost to time).
Extends to pretty much all first party PS3 games now. Not trying to turn this into console wars, lets just see how it compares to MS's games:
Uncharted 2, 3, Last of Us, Killzone 2, 3, Resistance trilogy, Warhawk, GT5, GT6, Motorstorm, Twisted Metal, Wipeout HD, among most others, all down now. Uncharted couldve been mitigated if the remaster had multiplayer, but it didnt.
Forza Motorsport 2, 3, 4, Horizon, Halo 3, Reach, 4, Gears trilogy, Perfect Dark Zero, Project Gotham 4, all still up and running.
Sony has been making money hand over fist this generation, and somehow they can't afford to keep all those servers up? While MS have been doing the significantly worse than the 360 gen, but still managing to keep up the online mode for their older games.
I love Gran Turismo Sport and its GaaS model. But, I have a lingering fear that in just a couple of years they shut it down, redeeming almost the entire game useless due to to how heavily tied the game is to online.
It's extends to PS4 games too. Of course Gravity Rush and Driveclub, both being shut down prematurely before the generation is even ended.
Thoughts? I dont want this to be seen as a thread where I'm needless bashing Sony. Some of their decisions lately have been good, like backwards compatibility on PS5, and finally opening up to Minecraft crossplay, among others. This is something I'd thought I'd bri[/QUOTE]
Well Microsoft has a lot more money.
I'm pretty sure its also because Microsoft owns Azure and they probably have games scale to meet their user's needs. So if a game has only 5 players, it'll scale to that.
Regarding Ubi, Acti and EA, they do multi platform games. So the potential playerbase on any given day is probably a lot bigger to begin with. On top of that they release massive games annually (CoD, Madden, FIFA), where the online components just receive slight updates.
Should be a lot easier to run and maintain FIFA 14's online, when you have 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 up and running anyways. As opposed to Driveclub and Gravity Rush 2.
I work in Enterprise IT but only have legit insight on storage/backup. I do however pick some things up here and there from coworkers in different fields.
Therefore I know that the biggest goal in IT is to prevent maintaining a so called "Zoo" (lots of different technologies with very few instances each). What you want is a "herd" (few technologies, massive amount of instances each).
"Keeping a server running" is easier said then done. VMWare, Oracle, Linux distributors and similar companies charge license fees regardless of how much you use a system. Constant updates, bug fixes and other work are mandatory, which costs human ressources.
Your physical servers (where you likely pay a maintenance contract on) can reach End of Life, which forces you migrate to a new technology.
Not even saying I agree with Sony's modus operandi given all the money they charge for online, just saying that I understand. If they can shut down a system with minimal public outrage (few remaining players) they jump on the opportunity.
I think you forgot the /s there friend.
Also before online was a thing games were $50
Playstation is using (and has extended) the server farms which were built and used from Gaikai. So they basically have their own network where they provide the required resources on-demand for the sole purpose of powering the Playstation services. On the other hand we have Microsoft that relies on its Azure cloud where you have constant global overcapacities (not because they have problems selling their resources but because the cloud is simply that big). It's easier to keep niche services running if you have "free" or "un-used" capacities within your network.
Other companies have different variations of network architectures like Valve that relies on renting capacities from 3rd party datacenters or Acti-Blizz that has a mix of own server farms and something called "colocation".
Thanks for the insight and your educated opinion on that matter. In those instances where I have played old EA and Ubi games (non-sport/popular) a few weeks ago, I've only found 0-1 players online by the way. So I still can't imagine why or how they keep the multiplayer up for a nonexistent playerbase but I'm impressed nevertheless.
Well no as has been stated in the thread already i believe, you can no longer unlock certain items that required online currency.
Please stop trying to defend a company shutting down a service it's customers pay for after just 2 years.
Its really not defend-able.
I was disappointed that Little Big Planet got closed. On the PS3 it remained active throughout the console life span once it launched and on the PS4 it was just killed off.
I guess the franchise just was no longer popular.
I guess the franchise just was no longer popular.
Oh come off it. The online was some of the best aspects of that game. I had as much fun with the online as with the offline and it's what helped make the sequel as good as the first game in my eyes, and I probably would have kept playing it too.
So what if it "works perfectly fine," you mean, some of the game works perfectly fine with out it. The online gameplay WAS part of the game. And it doesn't work.
They tried to shut it down, what, less than a year after it came out? There's no justification for that. It wasn't even using matchmaking.
Without having any deep insight into their stuff, a difference might be the organizational approach.
EA, Acti and Ubi probably went like: "OK, we are selling a shit ton of games every year, therefore we always need to maintain a certain amount of rackspace/Tflops/TB/Bandwidth + manpower to run multiplayer. We also need no make sure all games are compatible with our inhouse standards."
That approach makes it a lot easier to be "generous" and keep stuff alive. You have massive costs up front but over time, it's cheaper at that scale.
Sony OTH only has one on going annual franchise (MLB IIRC) the rest of their games are somewhat isolated entities. Therefore it's probably cheaper in the short term to do a quick fix for datacenter capacity (buy it somewhere else) but will become a nuisance in the books as soon as the active player count drops.
That said, I did a quick Google search and it says that EA has shut down FIFA 14 servers in late 2017.
Not sure where you got that from, Sony's infrastructure is housed in AT&T datacenters and have recently announced they'll be using Azure.
I've never heard Sony moving any of it's PS Network functionality to the Gaikai infrastructure (except obviously PS Now), if you have any sources on this please share.
Sony has this habit of dropping something hard when they no longer find it useful or profitable. Keeping the online on seems to be one of them since even strangely enough, Nintendo is better at this. I mean, the Wii U was a failed console, yet you can still play all the Wii U games online, even the ones that got sequels on the Switch like Mario Maker, Smash, and Splatoon.
This is what happens on closed-platforms. You have no say on anything. The community can't even attempt to keep servers up themselves, or host private games. And there is no alternative to paying for online play because alternative services on the platform would result in meaningful competition.
You don't need tens of thousands of players to keep a game healthy. There are several 20+ year old PC games that continue to have healthy communities because of server lists (instead of matchmaking) and community-hosted servers.
I'd think that showing your customers that any online game has an expiration date when it's no longer popular would be a strong deterrent from investing in them.
You don't need tens of thousands of players to keep a game healthy. There are several 20+ year old PC games that continue to have healthy communities because of server lists (instead of matchmaking) and community-hosted servers.
I'd think that showing your customers that any online game has an expiration date when it's no longer popular would be a strong deterrent from investing in them.
That's why we pay monthly subscriptions on top of the $60 game. It's more than reasonable to expect a games sevices to continue if you're paying a monthly subscription.
Ah damn, I loved that game, shutdowning the servers made me angry :/. But at the time I didn't pay for ps+ so it was 'kind of" ok (MAG was only online so it was a freaking waste).
Nowadays we pay for it, they shouldn't simply shutdown servers.
Sony have no respect for their incredible legacy, if it's not the latest release it's disposable to them. I wish that preservation was as important to Sony as it is to Microsoft.
If Microsoft can maintain the online functionality of PGR4, a delisted game that came out 12 years ago on previous generation hardware, Sony can do the same for Driveclub.
If Microsoft can maintain the online functionality of PGR4, a delisted game that came out 12 years ago on previous generation hardware, Sony can do the same for Driveclub.
So if PS5 get full backward compabillity, most of the games wont be playable online?
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It would be fine if online was free, but it isn't. They can afford to keep those servers up with the money they make from paid subscriptions. But they don't want to.
they arent gonna keep servers up if the population is low. They could probably keep those servers open, but they wont. On the one hand, they are penny pinching fucks for that. on the other hand, the population is low, so its a minority share of people who would be affected.
All of them that still have online servers id imagine
All of them that still have online servers id imagine
Poor poor Sony. They ain't the money even for the servers...
IF ONLY they could sell MORE consoles...
Do you have sources on this because I'm only aware of Sony renting from AWS.
Yes, they shut down ths ervers in 2010. I was among the last "resistance" to play Halo 2 :D They could shut down the servers only when everyone log off, so for a few days people were playing like madmen.
Kudos for them for disclosing the techincal reason why they had to shut them down, at least. Halo 2 MP is alive in the MCC, tho.
Sony did an agreement with MS for the servers. It should tell something about the actual state of 'their' servers.
They shut down servers when nobody is playing online anymore. Why shouldn't they? Even if you wanted to play online there'd be nobody else to play against.
I wonder if the partnership with Azure will have any effect on this.
I wish devs would release the source code for their servers when they intend to shut down a game's online services and add a server browser when possible.
Sometimes the community can get stuff like that working without the help, but it can take a long time and the implementation isn't always perfect.
I wish devs would release the source code for their servers when they intend to shut down a game's online services and add a server browser when possible.
Sometimes the community can get stuff like that working without the help, but it can take a long time and the implementation isn't always perfect.
How many consoles did they sell and how much do they make from Plus and PSNOW? Dumb money
it's not an excuse
Sony, as an company, doesn't have the financial clout of Microsoft.
Going forward into the 2020's and beyond, this could be an issue as games get ever more spectacular and expensive to host and run.
Microsoft know this of course and it's why they're pushing services like Game Pass so much.
Going forward into the 2020's and beyond, this could be an issue as games get ever more spectacular and expensive to host and run.
Microsoft know this of course and it's why they're pushing services like Game Pass so much.
Sony isn't really about online multiplayer (or hasn't been up till now). Quality single player experiences have been Sony's real skill.
GT Sport is an exception though and has turned out really well, so I hope it stays live going forward.