A lot more than standing there hemming and hawing and going "while I disagree with you that minorities aren't actually people, I'll defend to the death your right to say it!"
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Sonicfox: "Fuck TERFS" (see threadmarks)
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
you discourage nazis from showing their stupid dumb nazi faces in public.
As well as against any pushbacks you may face when trying to implement your agenda.
Between this and the Notch thread you're doing a lot of defense running and concern trolling for shitty people.
If only there was a middle ground between hemming and hawing and putting on a mask and punching people.
You can win a lot more votes out knocking on doors and getting involved in local campaigns, and those votes will help keep the bad guys out of office. I do that here in London, although for one of the smaller parties.
there's no middle ground to be had when it comes to nazis. fuck'em.
TERFS and SWERFS are fucking horrible.
Debating Nazis in the marketplace of ideas doesn't work, I know liberals are all for free markets but Nazis dont care about your evidence or reasoned debates or the weight of your arguments.
They just wanna make someones life miserable be it blacks, gays, lesbians, latinos, asians etc.
Doesn't stop the Tories getting all the power in parliament because of how crap our voting system is and then I'm sure the LDs will prop them up again for a sniff of a ministerial car.
Debating Nazis in the marketplace of ideas doesn't work, I know liberals are all for free markets but Nazis dont care about your evidence or reasoned debates or the weight of your arguments.
They just wanna make someones life miserable be it blacks, gays, lesbians, latinos, asians etc.
Doesn't stop the Tories getting all the power in parliament because of how crap our voting system is and then I'm sure the LDs will prop them up again for a sniff of a ministerial car.
Nope... I do believe Nazis and hate spreaders should be punched in the face.
Debating them is the worst thing you could do actually.
Their ideas are the absolutely worst thing ever and the only thing it's doing is giving them visibility.
On top of that a debate is about who is better at convincing, not who has the better ideas.
Someone who has the best ideas is still going to lose if the debater is bad.
You don't search for truth or even a nebulous notion of good through debate.
I don't even get that angle from someone from a country that is perfectly happy with curtailing hate speech with the might of the law.
Nazis deserve nothing but a punch is certainly acceptable.
Yep, no platforming is much more powerful against Nazis.
The whole EU debate wasn't a big issue in the UK until the broadcasters gave Nigel Farage so much exposure on the TV.
Darn those militant leftists, daring to fight back against those literally murdering people, quoting Hitler, freely spreading hate speech, and attacking women and minorities.
Such violent people, no wonder they turn people off their side! If they really wanted to sway people who don't view trans people/minorites as people they would peacefully tweet and take the moral high ground while the right gains more power and attacks/kills more people. I mean it worked against Hitler in WW2! Rainbows, sparkles and unicorns, power of friendship!
Such a lust for violence.
Much wow.
Such violent people, no wonder they turn people off their side! If they really wanted to sway people who don't view trans people/minorites as people they would peacefully tweet and take the moral high ground while the right gains more power and attacks/kills more people. I mean it worked against Hitler in WW2! Rainbows, sparkles and unicorns, power of friendship!
Such a lust for violence.
Much wow.
Same with Trump. The media basically gave him free advertising.
Sadly, such simplistic and naive arguments have been quite common on era in the last couple of months.
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Simple on its face, but nascent fascist movements rely on people acquiescing direct violence to state power. The Nazi M.O. has always been to play nice (not respectably, but nice) with current power structures, such as the police and judicial system, since they don't have the manpower to enact their will directly on the public. That's why it's so effective to (strategically) deck a Nazi. It bypasses their most effective defenses.
You may think "but the police and law protect everyone, so bypassing them with direct action just means the biggest bullies win." If you take a look at the past 100 years, those power structures do not protect everyone equally in practice. Police still come down harder on on leftist movements since leftist movements often directly challenge institutions of power - don't forget, these same institutions were lawfully white supremacist mere decades ago. Even today there is a disturbing amount of far right sympathies within law enforcement. Nazis, right now, have more to lose by throwing the first punch than those who oppose them. The radical left doesn't call them "bootlickers" for nothing.
it's obviously not the only thing you do to nazis come on dude.
Nazis will stop when there is nobody but them left on this planet.
So fuck em up, because there is no debate to be held with fucking Nazis, people who wanna kill everyone who doesn't believe in their shit.
It is simple as that
OP
OP
To everyone entirely convinced that their own stance on "punch a Nazi / don't punch a Nazi" is the only valid and moral point of view, I'd direct you to this video by Contrapoints (a wonderful channel I discovered thanks to this thread).
You will likely feel like the character whose position you identify with is in the right, but the point is that it's a bit more nuanced than that and perhaps we should stop fighting for the absolute top spot at the morality ladder and realize that just because we may disagree on specifics like the optimal way to fight the Nazis, it doesn't mean we disagree on the basics like Nazis needing to be stopped, and should not be shitting on each other just because we don't reach the same conclusions.
- It's perfectly valid to think punching Nazis is a reasonable response to, well... Nazis.
- It's perfectly valid to think punching Nazis accomplishes little in the grand scheme of things but giving them free victim points and legitimizing violence, which is a tool that will always favor fascists.
You will likely feel like the character whose position you identify with is in the right, but the point is that it's a bit more nuanced than that and perhaps we should stop fighting for the absolute top spot at the morality ladder and realize that just because we may disagree on specifics like the optimal way to fight the Nazis, it doesn't mean we disagree on the basics like Nazis needing to be stopped, and should not be shitting on each other just because we don't reach the same conclusions.
- It's perfectly valid to think punching Nazis is a reasonable response to, well... Nazis.
- It's perfectly valid to think punching Nazis accomplishes little in the grand scheme of things but giving them free victim points and legitimizing violence, which is a tool that will always favor fascists.
So you defend not punching nazis, what have you accomplished?
You've wasted time, and done nothing but annoy people who know better.
Tell me, when is the last time you've debated a nazi, and convinced them not to be one?
Who is giving them victim points? Nazi sympathizers? Fuck them too!
I love this wonderfully furry gay boi
Holy shit.
I wonder if Johnny Cage is considered a crisis actor?
Holy shit.
I wonder if Johnny Cage is considered a crisis actor?
Centrists, liberals, people for who violence is unacceptable no matter the circumstances, people who believe freedom of speech to be sacred no matter the circumnstance, misinformed people who buy his "I'm not a Nazi", plain old gullible people... the list goes on and on. Please watch the video, she's a far better communicator than I could ever hope to be.
I have to say I would never have thought that a furry would be the hero that gaming culture deserves. Thank you for your service, SonicFox. Critical support against the TERFy scourge (and especially Ronda Rousey-- fuck her and fuck Joe Rogan too).
What the fuck is the middle ground between being a nazi and not being a nazi? I'm curious...
Can we please not call "nazis" to literally everyone who disagrees with you on the best way to combat nazism? Jesus fucking Christ.
Beauty. I would love nothing more than for commentators at E-League and Evo to go all in on shaming Ronda Rousey everytime Sonya is on the screen.
"Krisis" actor
Also, it's insane to me the serious amount of transphobia the UK has amongst famous people both left and right
I wanted to thank you again for this. Absolutely wonderful video, and it's got me hooked (and binging) her channel.
Here's the thing about punching nazis: any real nazi seriously deserves to get the crap beat out of them, but at the same time realize the leaders of this can use this to add some self victimization storyline in their quest for power and relevancy. I'd totally recommend giving this a read and in particular note the part about how you can't shut these kinds of discussions down anymore: https://www.cracked.com/blog/7-reasons-world-full-hate-groups-cults/
Twitter themselves removed it for "violating" the rules.
What the hell are you talking about, we're talking about punching literal Neo-Nazis
I want to say sorry for the stupid things I said in this thread.
Yesterday under my original username kitsuneyo, I decided to spew a bunch of pompous nonsense on this topic (here), which I know very little about.
I even had the nerve to call other people ignorant, when actually it's me who is ignorant on this. But instead of going away and reading up so I could understand these issues better, I decided to mouth off here.
I have to accept it was my own stupidity that led me to do this and learn from it.
I'm sorry to anyone I offended and I accept my ban. Take care ResetEra
Yesterday under my original username kitsuneyo, I decided to spew a bunch of pompous nonsense on this topic (here), which I know very little about.
I even had the nerve to call other people ignorant, when actually it's me who is ignorant on this. But instead of going away and reading up so I could understand these issues better, I decided to mouth off here.
I have to accept it was my own stupidity that led me to do this and learn from it.
I'm sorry to anyone I offended and I accept my ban. Take care ResetEra
I'm glad you saw the error of your ways, it's rare for people not to double down and admit they were wrong.
User A: "There's a middle ground between what I'm doing and advocating, and not doing anything".
User B: "What's the middle ground between being a Nazi and not being a Nazi?"
Let's please not play coy about what's going on here. It would also be great if you watched the fucking video.
That's the last thing I'm saying on the matter because a) it's offtopic, b) the video does a far better job at analyzing both positions than I could ever do, and c) it's truly sad to me to see Era devolve into irrational "I'm more anti nazi than you" king-of-the-hill moral ladder petty infighting like this.