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Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I'm not trying to be "Nose turning up" and I do understand what it is. It just comes off as bad at the moment, like tonnes of abandoned fan projects.

The problem is the things posted on here aren't about the originality in Dreams but these carbon copies, that while impressive, don't play as well as the original games. Sure I could tell you, you could play Dead Space in Dreams. But why would you want to? Instead I could show you a couple of horror games that one person spent months making that are very personal to them and have their own charm. Or I could say hey have you ever wanted to tour a 'life-sized' Minas Tirith? Or I could show you a turn based RPG that has an interesting battle system. Or I could show you a project where someone is taking inspiration from older school RPGS which is still in its early stages as you can see here: https://indreams.me/dream/mCGDZEeBcPX.

All I'd ask anyone is to be encouraged that more people are interested in these projects. I know there are so many game engines out there that make things really easy for small studios or single creators, but getting people in the door and past the "I can't code" or "I'm not creative" when one of the main points of Dreams is the collaborative aspect I think is great. There are creators who don't do any logic that can use what other people have made in order to make it so.

I'm sorry I reacted strongly but the constant negativity on here towards this game when they're responding to these cherry picked poor representations of the game is just a bummer. I know it's not exactly your fault or their fault but it's frustrating none the same.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Well clearly I have different expectations as a lot of people and my standard of being impressed about what people made in dreams are clearly to low =) I did enjoy it, so that's that.

And about that there are too many threads about Dreams creations? I often see 5 topics on the main page about the same game that has just released. And that is to discuss every mechanic or interpretation of that big release. And nobody complains about that, so what's wrong with making a thread once in a couple of days about a great Dreams creation? It's not that different as we see with other games. They only difference is that you see a gameplayvideo now.

I haven't really engaged in this 'too many Dreams Threads debate' but as far as I understand how things are supposed to work people are encouraged to make threads about new game releases that branch out from just discussing the game itself- so like its sales, the usual DF vid, reviews etc. I think that is why there are people here who don't get the necessity of a separate thread like this one since the OT is still on the front page and fairly active. It makes Dreams look like a special case for no discernable reason.

Oh and yeah that Sonic dream ain't that great IMO.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
All I'd ask anyone is to be encouraged that more people are interested in these projects. I know there are so many game engines out there that make things really easy for small studios or single creators, but getting people in the door and past the "I can't code" or "I'm not creative" when one of the main points of Dreams is the collaborative aspect I think is great. There are creators who don't do any logic that can use what other people have made in order to make it so.

I'm sorry I reacted strongly but the constant negativity on here towards this game when they're responding to these cherry picked poor representations of the game is just a bummer. I know it's not exactly your fault or their fault but it's frustrating none the same.

Yeah, no I completely understand the purpose of Dreams is to get people in the door for creativity especially those who can't code and I have seen some really cool stuff on there, but it just feels strange to see others IPs (Sonic, Fallout and A hat in time) being used for projects. I have seen creative and interesting things on Dreams so far and prefer those to just grabbing an existing thing and mimicking it in a strange way.

Give me more interesting and creative stuff like this :

 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Yeah, no I completely understand the purpose of Dreams is to get people in the door for creativity especially those who can't code and I have seen some really cool stuff on there, but it just feels strange to see others IPs (Sonic, Fallout and A hat in time) being used for projects. I have seen creative and interesting things on Dreams so far and prefer those to just grabbing an existing thing and mimicking it in a strange way.

Quick question: If artists create fan art, and writers create fan fiction, why can't game developers create fan games?
 
OP
OP
Kingsora

Kingsora

Member
May 19, 2018
1,042
Yeah, no I completely understand the purpose of Dreams is to get people in the door for creativity especially those who can't code and I have seen some really cool stuff on there, but it just feels strange to see others IPs (Sonic, Fallout and A hat in time) being used for projects. I have seen creative and interesting things on Dreams so far and prefer those to just grabbing an existing thing and mimicking it in a strange way.

Give me more interesting and creative stuff like this :


You're absolutely right. The game you showed is beyond amazing. And I for example also loved this game in Dreams, it was awesome, original, funny and creative. Just a great fun game:

However let's be honest. With games like these you won't get the attention of people that don't own Dreams or have no interest in it (yet). With games that are recreations of famous IP's you do will get a lot of interest. If Dreams ever become a big thing it's for the biggest part because of those recreations that attract attention.

 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
Quick question: If artists create fan art, and writers create fan fiction, why can't game developers create fan games?

I never said they couldn't. I never told them they can't, but I do see it as lazy, uninspired, gutless and uncreative. Grow some balls, make your own designs/worlds and stop being a bootlegger. I see it as no better than knock off games. I know! I will make a game about an Italian plumber that goes down pipes and rescues princesses, I will call him Mario. See how fucking creative I am? If anyone asks, I will change his name to Gario and put it on the Google app store with all the other bottom feeding "I'm standing on the shoulders of giants" games on there.
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
I never said they couldn't. I never told them they can't, but I do see it as lazy, uninspired, gutless and uncreative. Grow some balls, make your own designs/worlds and stop being a bootlegger. I see it as no better than knock off games. I know! I will make a game about an Italian plumber that goes down pipes and rescues princesses, I will call him Mario. See how fucking creative I am? If anyone asks, I will change his name to Gario and put it on the Google app store with all the other bottom feeding "I'm standing on the shoulders of giants" games on there.

Okay, but there were people drawing Spider-man fan art in the 1990's that are now officially employed drawing Spider-man for Marvel comics. Hell, you see this guy?



I have been following Tyson since I was in high school (back when he was going by the internet handle "Rittz", I believe). He has spent most of his life drawing Sonic fan art. He is now basically THE Sonic art guy here in America -- he drew beautiful issues of Archie's Sonic comic (Sonic: Mega Drive, Sonic: The Next Level), he was the animation director for Sonic Mania, he's done all of the Sonic animation shorts (Sonic Mania Adventures), and now he's the guy who lead redesigning Sonic for the movie.

I mentioned Sonic Mania, right? A number of developers there got their start in fan games.

Christian Whitehead developed Retro Sonic. Simon Thomley was a developer on Sonic Mettrix (among many, many other projects -- Sonic Megamix, even a brief stint on Sonic Robo-Blast 2 way back in the day). Pagodawest Games is made up of a number of the original team for Sonic 2 HD. Other members of the Mania team also developed a fan game known as Sonic Nexus.

Like, I get it, bootlegs suck. But these are not bootlegs. These are loving tributes made by passionate fans, and in the case of Sonic Mania, that passion spilled out to become the highest rated official Sonic game since 1994.

Broaden your definitions.
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,558
Christian Whitehead developed Retro Sonic. Simon Thomley was a developer on Sonic Mettrix (among many, many other projects -- Sonic Megamix, even a brief stint on Sonic Robo-Blast 2 way back in the day). Pagodawest Games is made up of a number of the original team for Sonic 2 HD. Other members of the Mania team also developed a fan game known as Sonic Nexus.

Out of curiosity, was Stealth ever directly involved with SRB2, even briefly? The story I heard is that he offered to help with programming or something, but nothing actually came of it. I don't know if that's accurate or not.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
User Banned (1 Week) - Trolling over a series of posts with history
Okay, but there were people drawing Spider-man fan art in the 1990's that are now officially employed drawing Spider-man for Marvel comics. Hell, you see this guy?



I have been following Tyson since I was in high school (back when he was going by the internet handle "Rittz", I believe). He has spent most of his life drawing Sonic fan art. He is now basically THE Sonic art guy here in America -- he drew beautiful issues of Archie's Sonic comic (Sonic: Mega Drive, Sonic: The Next Level), he was the animation director for Sonic Mania, he's done all of the Sonic animation shorts (Sonic Mania Adventures), and now he's the guy who lead redesigning Sonic for the movie.

I mentioned Sonic Mania, right? A number of developers there got their start in fan games.

Christian Whitehead developed Retro Sonic. Simon Thomley was a developer on Sonic Mettrix (among many, many other projects -- Sonic Megamix, even a brief stint on Sonic Robo-Blast 2 way back in the day). Pagodawest Games is made up of a number of the original team for Sonic 2 HD. Other members of the Mania team also developed a fan game known as Sonic Nexus.

Like, I get it, bootlegs suck. But these are not bootlegs. These are loving tributes made by passionate fans, and in the case of Sonic Mania, that passion spilled out to become the highest rated official Sonic game since 1994.

Broaden your definitions.


I knew you were going to mention Sonic Mania, but you were forgetting Christian Whitehead did ports of existing games to get in good with SEGA.

How about I create a new YouTube channel, call it "Glazehedgehog", take all your work, redub it in a cheap fashion, claim it as my own work then see how fast you got the copyright button. I bet the line would be drawn then.
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,649
How about I create a new YouTube channel, call it "Glazehedgehog", take all your work, redub it in a cheap fashion, claim it as my own work then see how fast you got the copyright button. I bet the line would be drawn then.
I don't believe you've grasped the distinction between cynical plagiarism and open and honest fan tributes born of passion.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
"THIS GAME IN DREAMS IS SO FUCKING AMAZING IT WILL BLOW YOUR GOD DAMNED MIND " - random Youtuber

I thought this was a janky snooze. The first game I've ever played where you can get a "Game Over" in the tutorial mode.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,358
Man, how?? I've never seen the Dreams UI/interface or its list of capabilities, but how does someone get/design all the required assets using just Dreams and a PS4 controller? I feel like you'd need a PC to design shit like this.
 
May 24, 2019
22,182
Last I checked the trending Dreams page it was all Sonic stuff. I dunno if it was from me trying this stuff or it's that way for everyone, but it's a bit annoying if all we'll see on that list are IP swipes.
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,649
Hmm, yes tell me more about what happened to
That is certainly a list of free fangames that all acknowledge the original work and IP holder and don't pretend to be original or official product

The Youtube analogy you are attempting to make here only works if someone tried to, say, sell Parkways of Rage as their own work and got nailed for it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,064
I knew you were going to mention Sonic Mania, but you were forgetting Christian Whitehead did ports of existing games to get in good with SEGA.

Which he started doing as a fan project?

I'm really not sure what you are trying to argue here anyway. Fanworks are 'lazy and cowardly'? There's no merit in fan works because of grey legality? I really don't understand.
 
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AGoodODST

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,480
In what way can that be described as "looks and plays fantastic"?

It looks absolutely awful and looks like it controls like dog shit.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
Fanworks are lazy and cowardly?

Congrats, you solved the mystery. As I said before, the world no longer has H.R Gigers or Picasso's. Just imitators and copycats. Might as well trace art nowadays. Ants standing on giants shoulders. Call me cynical, call me what you want. Fan art and fan projects are soulless husks.

Enjoy your bootlegs.
 
Nov 8, 2017
6,313
Stockholm, Sweden
I haven't tried it but it sure as hell does not like it plays fantastic.

People sure are easily impressed by anything made in dreams, it's always "incredible" "amazing" "mind blowing" "wow just wow" "fantastic" when it's more often than not just "neat".

Edit, just tried it, woof, it's super rough, like alpha version of sonic 06 levels of rough.
 
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MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
Congrats, you solved the mystery. As I said before, the world no longer has H.R Gigers or Picasso's. Just imitators and copycats. Might as well trace art nowadays. Ants standing on giants shoulders. Call me cynical, call me what you want. Fan art and fan projects are soulless husks.

Enjoy your bootlegs.
Wow look at Raphael doing fan art, what a loser/s
RaphaelMichelangStudyBW.x2.jpg


Van Gogh too!
Hiroshige_Van_Gogh_1.JPG


And Picasso?!
 
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Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
Congrats, you solved the mystery. As I said before, the world no longer has H.R Gigers or Picasso's. Just imitators and copycats. Might as well trace art nowadays. Ants standing on giants shoulders. Call me cynical, call me what you want. Fan art and fan projects are soulless husks.

Enjoy your bootlegs.

Man, who shit in your cereal today.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
Congrats, you solved the mystery. As I said before, the world no longer has H.R Gigers or Picasso's. Just imitators and copycats. Might as well trace art nowadays. Ants standing on giants shoulders. Call me cynical, call me what you want. Fan art and fan projects are soulless husks.

Enjoy your bootlegs.
Grow up.
 

JooJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
576
I haven't tried it but it sure as hell does not like it plays fantastic.

People sure are easily impressed by anything made in dreams, it's always "incredible" "amazing" "mind blowing" "wow just wow" "fantastic" when it's more often than not just "neat".

Lol totally agree. People are so excited to see something recreated inside a game that, as impressive as it is, looks and feels like a crappy tech demo that no one will play for more than 5 min. Sorry.
 

Ricky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
909
I think the way these games look puts me off. I know they can't make it look exactly like Sonic. I just can't think of a better way of wording it lol.
 
Nov 8, 2017
6,313
Stockholm, Sweden
looks and feels like a crappy tech demo that no one will play for more than 5 min. Sorry.

And that goes beyond all the "remakes" in dreams, of the 100+ or so dreams i have tried none have been fun for more than five minutes, they all feel like shitty/okayish tech demos, i will probably just end up looking at peoples creations on youtube just like i did with little big planet, i like the idea of dreams but i don't think i will ever enjoy actually playing it.
 
OP
OP
Kingsora

Kingsora

Member
May 19, 2018
1,042
And that goes beyond all the "remakes" in dreams, of the 100+ or so dreams i have tried none have been fun for more than five minutes, they all feel like shitty/okayish tech demos, i will probably just end up looking at peoples creations on youtube just like i did with little big planet, i like the idea of dreams but i don't think i will ever enjoy actually playing it.
You have played 100 dreams and didn't enjoy even one for more as a couple of minutes? You have pretty high standards if you don't even like the highest rated games in Dreams.
 

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
You have played 100 dreams and didn't enjoy even one for more as a couple of minutes? You have pretty high standards if you don't even like the highest rated games in Dreams.

Honestly it's not that high of a standard. I've had Dreams for months and it always had that clunkiness and floatiness of LBP, not to undermine the creativity and work put into these things, it's probably just the way the engine is. Or maybe it's because people need more time to learn how it all works.

But it's what immediately turned me off from creating anything in this game. For now, it's more of a visual showcase instead of anything I'd want to play.

Drop in for 5 mins and then check out what else there is to see. The way characters control is just way too big of a deal breaker.

I was really hoping I'd like this but controls are too crucial for a game to disregard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,041
Congrats, you solved the mystery. As I said before, the world no longer has H.R Gigers or Picasso's. Just imitators and copycats. Might as well trace art nowadays. Ants standing on giants shoulders. Call me cynical, call me what you want. Fan art and fan projects are soulless husks.

Enjoy your bootlegs.
LMAO at this and the ownage in the post below. Wish you hadn't been banned so you could answer to this:
Wow look at Raphael doing fan art, what a loser/s
RaphaelMichelangStudyBW.x2.jpg


Van Gogh too!
Hiroshige_Van_Gogh_1.JPG


And Picasso?!
Never seen someone so thoroughly destroyed on here. Bravo.
 

cmagus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
674
Looks really cool, amazing to see what people have been doing with Dreams. I've been on the fence with Dreams but I think I might just have to pull the trigger and grab it, looks like it can be a lot fun creating content in it.
 

Boy

Member
Apr 24, 2018
4,556
I'm thinking about getting dreams, but are these remake creations actually fun to play or is it more like 'oh look what i can kinda replicate'?
 

Modest_Modsoul

Living the Dreams
Member
Oct 29, 2017
23,548
but how does someone get/design all the required assets using just Dreams and a PS4 controller?
They don't get assets from anywhere.

They actually CREATED THEM FROM SCRATCH with Dreams' tools + DS4 & maybe PlayStation Moves.

In my humble opinion, that's what makes Dreams & the creators amazing.

That popular Fallout 4 Dreams Edition?

Yes, that was actually created from zero too, no assets import from the real game ever.
 

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
This is INSANE bro, I'm literally losing my fucking mind
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Out of curiosity, was Stealth ever directly involved with SRB2, even briefly? The story I heard is that he offered to help with programming or something, but nothing actually came of it. I don't know if that's accurate or not.

It was a very, very, very long time ago -- we're talking 2001, 2002, but yes, I do believe he was a coder for a short time. There was a difference of opinion over something, I don't remember what now, but he departed the project after a year, maybe less. I don't know if it amounted to anything. Stealth was kind of combative back then.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,699
Argentina
Played both, this one and the xtreme one. I'm not an expert on Sonic or platform games in general but I've played quite a few in my life and to me both of these control kinda bad... I don't know why you all like to slide while landing or turning, it's my most hated control in gaming history, also the struggling while trying to turn or change directions... I don't think Sonic is literally a ball.

Just now I spent minutes tweaking the puppet for the first time and you can do really snappy and tight controls, this is either personal taste or lack of knowledge (which are both understandable)

I can give these games the aesthetics medal tho, they've done a great job there and mechanics are well implemented too.
 

@dedmunk

Banned
Oct 11, 2018
3,088
Dreams' biggest strength is also it's biggest weakness.

While these demos look absolutely great for what they are I'm finding that everything seems to play (and look, although to a much lesser extent) like something that was created in a sandbox "game maker". I'm not discounting the effort put in by the content creators, they are doing a great job, in the end everything just feels unrefined and generic.

LBP weakness was it's strength because of the limitations set upon it, that allowed them to tighten mechanics etc to platform style gameplay, whereas Dreams' can do anything there feels like there is little refinement around anything.

Maybe it will get better with time, when creators have more time to play with things.
 

correojon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,410
"plays fantastic"
Really? The player is missing every simple action, constantly crashing into walls, without playing it you can feel how slippery it is...The OP title is not just clickbait, is straight up lying.
 

Scoey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
230
If Sega put out a game that played as "fantastic" as this one it would be 1/10 reviews from all sides and people losing their shit about how bad it is.

Maybe people can appreciate these Dreams things in a different way than a commercial game, but objectively, jank is jank. Let's not go overboard on the clickbait hyperbole in the titles. This doesn't look and play anything remotely approaching fantastic. How about this title instead, "sonic tech demo made in dreams looks and plays like dog poop but it's still quite impresive that someone made it in dreams" ?
 
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BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
For what it's worth I don't really like these Dreams projects that are trying to replicate the exact look of the console Sonic games. I always thought this one looked way more fun, because it's working within Dreams existing aesthetics to make something that doesn't look quite so janky.


 
Nov 8, 2017
6,313
Stockholm, Sweden
You have played 100 dreams and didn't enjoy even one for more as a couple of minutes? You have pretty high standards if you don't even like the highest rated games in Dreams.

I appreciate the creativity and effort put into (some) of the dreams, but it always falls apart when it comes to the gameplay due to media molecules love for floaty unresponsive controls, it's what killed little big planet for me.

In my experience even the best dreams game is still worse than the average 5$ steam shovelware game.

I do really like some of the art pieces, so far the dreams without any gameplay have been my favorites.
 
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