Totally agreed.
Ice Cap is rough, but I'll take it to get the other two.
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Sonic Origins releases June 23rd
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Totally agreed.
Ice Cap is rough, but I'll take it to get the other two.
To find out you need to beat the first boss in Game Gear Sonic 2.
I think Launch Base is fine, just doesn't sound like final level music (nor does the Beta for that matter).
The Carnival Night music is just dreadful. Sounds like Dangerous era MJ which is already an affront on my senses.
It's a shame the original OST almost certainly isn't included, though I'm in the camp of people who prefer the prototype tracks as they generally feel more Sonic-y to me, with two exclusions:
- Original Ice Cap sounds Sonic-y and fantastic while prototype Ice Cap just isn't good at all.
- I don't really like either version of Knuckles theme. I think they're both kind of bad. lol
- Original Ice Cap sounds Sonic-y and fantastic while prototype Ice Cap just isn't good at all.
- I don't really like either version of Knuckles theme. I think they're both kind of bad. lol
I can kind of hear that.
(I do think Sonic 4: Episode II has a couple underrated bangers though. Episode II specifically. Episode I was very bad.)
Damn, that lowers my expectations a little now.
I really hope Sega's internal team knows what they're doing then.
Yeah, so SEGA is essentially cheaping out in the little places again. Outside of S3&K they are basically handling this internally and with probably a skeleton crew to just put it all together.
Pretty sad that this is confirmation that there will be no Amy and Metal Sonic playable, i know the chance was small but still
As said before, no playable Amy is BS, just make her have the same physics as Sonic. >_> So frustrating.
As far as the Sonic 3 music, I do find it pretty darn cool/absolutely fascinating personally that the 'replaced' songs in that old PC collection ended up actually being originally made tracks from the game at the time it was in development! That makes me far more accepting of them rather than if they were just made recently from random people.
Having said that Ice Cap Zone will forever be missed. :( My favourite tune. :(
I love that it is a real song haha, listening to it with lyrics and stuff is cool.
As far as the Sonic 3 music, I do find it pretty darn cool/absolutely fascinating personally that the 'replaced' songs in that old PC collection ended up actually being originally made tracks from the game at the time it was in development! That makes me far more accepting of them rather than if they were just made recently from random people.
Having said that Ice Cap Zone will forever be missed. :( My favourite tune. :(
I love that it is a real song haha, listening to it with lyrics and stuff is cool.
One of those weird situation where being told dev was handled in house is a reason to take pause.
Will see how reviews look before I blindly pre-order for the *check version matrix*
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Will see how reviews look before I blindly pre-order for the *check version matrix*
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Its pretty sad to have zero faith in Sega themselves handling Sonic correctly.
I'll say it right now, if S3&K's original ost isn't in the game, this becomes a 15 dollar curiosity a year from now.
I mean, it is, but it's also extremely valid.
* Just a word of caution, we've heard these are actually developed in-house not sourced out so buyer beware! *
XD
lolSega.
XD
lolSega.
This doesn't actually change anything for me. I was buying these with the expectation that they were the Sonic 1/2/CD Taxman ports, and that the modding community would end up picking up the slack on adding tons of new features on top of those releases, like what we saw with A.I.R., Forever and Absolute. The fact that Sonic 1 and 2 can be expected to have the Drop Dash at minimum is all I need in the mean time.
Here's the question: If we ourselves had never discovered the prototype one with the old music being the same as the PC Collection one... would Sega actually have told us? Seems like something that could have calmed the backlash of Jackson's stuff being missing if they had explained it.
I feel like if nothing else, Sega handling these internally means that future re-releases of any of these games should be at minimum, using these versions of the game
I don't think you can draw any conclusions from them either but it does make the overall vibes for the project a little more weird.
Just to make things a little more crazy I wonder if Sega is still so spooked about the rights that the whole 3 or 3+K soundtrack might be changed. It always seemed weird that they could pin down involvement absolutely to a couple levels and be certain it wasn't the whole thing, at least for 3 alone.
So what I took from that tweet was that Sonic 1, 2, and CD are essentially the same Taxman remakes from ~10 years ago, Headcannon made Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and then SEGA(Sonic Team?) built the surrounding package: so the presentation, most of the extras, challenges, etc. I guess that's fine, but it just shines light on this not being anything close to a major project like Mania was.
The fact that they prioritized adding animated cutscenes, but didn't improve the gameplay content is pretty telling. The animations are very cool, but I want Sonic to be a game series first and foremost. The point of the collection is to get new fans into the games, and that's great, but it doesn't feel like it goes much further than that. I'm glad the movies have done well, but I don't want the quality of the games to get sidelined even further for other media.
Edit: Reworded. The animations aren't replacing content, but that the kind of content they decided to add shows their focus is more on other media.
Edit: Reworded. The animations aren't replacing content, but that the kind of content they decided to add shows their focus is more on other media.
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Probably not.
Sega REALLY doesn't want to talk about the nitty gritty involving the relationship between them and the Jackson estate, especially now.
Nah, I have to disagree. Those beta tracks sound bad and don't fit with the game. It doesn't sound very "sonic 3" and doesn't fit with the other tracks in the game + expansion
Curious how different this will be from the mobile ports.
We've already seen the menus are different (going straight into a character select after selecting the game) and we know stuff like the drop dash are included.
I wish Sonic CD, being the first Retro Engine game, would've been given to Headcannon for a bit more love though. At least for Knuckles.
I can't imagine it would've taken away from anything else, being largely done by a separate team. Not like they would've flipped a coin to get Metal/Amy playable, or add a story mode. If anything, we would've gotten this or nothing.
We've already seen the menus are different (going straight into a character select after selecting the game) and we know stuff like the drop dash are included.
I wish Sonic CD, being the first Retro Engine game, would've been given to Headcannon for a bit more love though. At least for Knuckles.
I'm looking forward to the cutscenes myself. I love Tyson's work, and his take on some of the S3&K stuff is going to be awesome.
I can't imagine it would've taken away from anything else, being largely done by a separate team. Not like they would've flipped a coin to get Metal/Amy playable, or add a story mode. If anything, we would've gotten this or nothing.
Why is that weird? It was only ever a small handful of songs and they know which ones they are.
Yeah for sure, they really just seem to want to avoid addressing anything to do with it. Which after all this time isn't surprising.
I just think them saying this music was actually originally produced along side the game's development by the Mega Drive team waaay back then but never used, it's like a 'what coulda been' type scenario.
Which in this fans opinion is pretty cool!
Certinally a step up from 'some bozo working here now replaced all the music please still buy our quite expensive collection'.
Well, there was some excitement over Headcanon still working on Sonic stuff after nothing since Mania, but now it turns out their involvement in this project is just Sega using the Sonic 3 port they made but Sega never used. Plus I have less faith in Sega delivering on Story Mode and Mission Mode.
Yeah, I get that. But to me, it really does seem like Sega is putting effort into this. They could have done a quick and simple collection, maybe throw in 3D Blast and stuff like that, but all with simple emulation.
It at least feels like some love and care is going into this.
Teams that create fully animated cutscenes aren't teams you can use to create gameplay content, that's just not how that works. If you remove the cutscenes, you aren't guaranteed to end up with gameplay, and just end up with less.
I guess in my head it would take some absolute, concrete proof that would free them from any potential litigation on a track by track basis and maybe they don't feel confident they have it. The impression I have from the various things that have been written about it is that MJ and his associates were on the project for a while and then they weren't and it was all sorta informal. A couple tracks sound similar to other things but the others might not be so clear, at least not clear enough to lawyer up with. But I'm probably making this out to be more than it is. Outside the fan backlash I'm still surprised a completely new ost Sonic 3 hasn't been released yet.
Let's say that all this debating is for nothing and Sonic Origins releases with the 3&K soundtrack completely intact. What would that imply? That there are actually no legal issues with the soundtrack? That Sega paid for the rights? Will we be going through this whole song and dance again in 5-10 years the next time Sonic 3&K is rereleased?
The catch is nobody but SEGA is really sure what happened with the music. Who owns what and under what contract has never been public, so the rights issue has always been speculative. The only time that a rights issue has been implied was actually the Lego Dimensions pack which had Sonic 3 knock offs (the PC soundtrack actually wasn't an example as far as anyone can tell; PC MIDI synths just weren't capable of reproducing the Genesis tracks properly so they fell back to using the beta tracks which were less technically complex).
So because nobody really knows the true scope of the problem, the solution is also equally unknown. It could simply need a new license and money, or it could be as complex as unpretzeling the copyrights involved. It could even be impossible if it's truly an Estate issue or if there's just too many layers to the copyright and contract (especially if you have a 3rd party such as a composers manager that isn't interested).
I misspoke, what I mean was there's seemingly more focus on expanding Sonic's other media presence, whereas the attention to smaller improvements like making sure all the characters are playable in each game is less so. They have the resources to do both, it's simply they didn't think to do it. It's not their main focus.
Same, they look great. I think it's an awesome addition. Again, I didn't mean to imply the animations were taking away from something else. I just hoped they'd have done both.
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I saw your original post and was about apologise myself because I considered I must have misread it. It's all good.
I can't say I disagree with this. On the surface this isn't an unfair product, it's a very easy game to give to my nephew and being able to properly play the classic games on my Switch in widescreen, especially Sonic 3&K, is exciting (because wow I do not like trying to play games on a touch screen, that just isn't the interface for me).
BUT as someone who has already played these games before, yeah it honestly feels like things are lacking. Sonic 2 on mobile had the right approach with making a complete version of Hidden Palace. However while that's still here it doesn't feel like there's anything new to discover for games already released before, which frankly is half the fun of doing remasters. I absolutely love dumpster diving through beta content and alternate versions and figuring out how to reinclude any/every scrapped or different thing there. You can't recreate nostalgia by keeping things the same, which seems odd to say but part of nostalgia was the discovery. Keep things the same and you miss that element.
Knuckles playable in CD would be something as it's not a thing experienced before, though certainly wouldn't be the only way of achieving it. New characters to the games introduces the possibilities of new routes to explore, and it's odd after Sonic Mania proved this they would step back on that one. Maybe there's new stuff in Sonic 3 and they are keeping it hidden? It's possible but we can't assume that if they aren't advertising it. And while the missions are technically new, I don't know, they don't feel like they will scratch the same itch.
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True but the game would have a budget and that budget got put somewhere and not somewhere else. And I'm glad it did!
Edit: yeah I would have taken Amy/ Knuckles in CD or something like that. But not so keen on new levels
I do think in a way these cutscenes do improve the experience especially for younger players. The mobile ports as is have already gone above and beyond to make these games into an absolutely definitive way to play, and you're just kind of running into diminishing returns when adding more gameplay extras that are just there to be there.
However, these cutscenes do add to the story presentation of the classics and adds a level of engagement for younger players who want to be more immersed in the game they are playing. I mean, how many people who played Sonic CD growing up tell legends of just watching the intro cutscene over and over and over in awe?
In a way, it's just another way of making the narrative of the classics more fleshed out in an unobtrusive way.
[루리콘] 세가퍼블리싱코리아, 2022년은 ‘소닉’ 사상 가장 큰 해… 소울 해커즈2 개발자도 | 루리웹
14일 밤 9시, '루리콘' 온라인 생방송의 일곱 번째 참가사는 세가퍼블리싱코리아였다. '...
m.ruliweb.com
Here's an interview that came out when that video debuted. And they had something interesting to say about Sonic 3.
Mind the rough google translate
[루리콘] 세가퍼블리싱코리아, 2022년은 ‘소닉’ 사상 가장 큰 해… 소울 해커즈2 개발자도 | 루리웹
14일 밤 9시, '루리콘' 온라인 생방송의 일곱 번째 참가사는 세가퍼블리싱코리아였다. '...
Here's an interview that came out when that video debuted. And they had something interesting to say about Sonic 3.
Mind the rough google translate
Would like to get an actual translation of this. It's too hard to tell what they're saying here. That would be so weird and like…even more disappointing if you can listen to the original music in the museum and not in-game. But I think they're referring specifically to the Sonic 3 soundtrack.
Hmmmm
[루리콘] 세가퍼블리싱코리아, 2022년은 ‘소닉’ 사상 가장 큰 해… 소울 해커즈2 개발자도 | 루리웹
14일 밤 9시, '루리콘' 온라인 생방송의 일곱 번째 참가사는 세가퍼블리싱코리아였다. '...
Here's an interview that came out when that video debuted. And they had something interesting to say about Sonic 3.
Sounds like they mean all the music in game will be the S3&K versions, and you can listen to knuckles and the boss themes from Sonic 3 in the museum. Which is interesting because knuckles' theme was one of the tracks changed in the PC version. Might be our first indication that at least some of those tracks will return.
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I am now more curious about the state of this thing than ever before. Unfortunately I'm also a bit more worried, but I still hope the games themselves end up being good in the end. I'm a bit curious though... does this mean that Sega picked up on the S3&K remaster where it left off, or was it already finished somewhere along the line? I thought that it wasn't done when Sega declined the pitch, but maybe I'm misremembering.