Sonic Origins releases June 23rd

MondoMega · Apr 21, 2022

ZeoVGM said:
It hasn't been confirmed that the music was the reason.

but unlike Earthbound, where it doesn't seem like there was anything really blocking it from a Wii VC release, we know Sonic 3 has been off-limits to teams like M2 (for both the 3D Classics and Sega Ages lines) and D3T (where it was one of the few titles removed from the console port of their Steam collection). I'd throw in Taxman and Stealth's mobile remaster not being greenlit too but I guess one could come up with other explainations for that.

3&K hasn't been rereleased in a decade; do you have a better explaination to offer up if you don't think the music is the cause?

RagnarokX · Apr 21, 2022

MondoMega said:
but unlike Earthbound, where it doesn't seem like there was anything really blocking it from a Wii VC release, we know Sonic 3 has been off-limits to teams like M2 (for both the 3D Classics and Sega Ages lines) and D3T (where it was one of the few titles removed from the console port of their Steam collection).

3&K hasn't been rereleased in a decade; do you have a better explaination to offer up if you don't think the music is the cause?

And it's such a weird situation. Every re-release of Sonic 3 that wasn't a port had the Jackson music changed, but both Sega and Jackson's estate flat-out deny that his music was even in the game at all, which anyone that listens to those tracks knows is blatantly false.

Lord Vatek · Apr 21, 2022

Eh, I'm not going to lose sleep over the Jackson tracks.

They make up a very small percentage of the overall OST of S3&K and only one or two are any good.

shadowman16 · Apr 21, 2022

ZeoVGM said:
It's the exact opposite.

Why would they shout about something that has never been more than rumor and that Sega themselves have never commented on? Sonic 3 has been re-released with the original music multiple times before.

If Sega had re-released it with new music in the past and this new release was the return of the original music, then it make sense to shout about it.

Why? Its easy positive press. And with the stupid DLC/chart shit they did today they could sure need it. Get a few more preorders locked in. You bury bad news, and that's what this feels like, as I already pointed out in two separate Sega examples. The only other logical explanation is that once again Sega are idiots when it comes to properly marketing their games, which is very much believable.

fontguy · Apr 21, 2022

ZeoVGM said:
Why would they shout about something that has never been more than rumor and that Sega themselves have never commented on? Sonic 3 has been re-released with the original music multiple times before.

The last time Sonic 3 saw a rerelease was the Ultimate Genesis Collection, which came out February 10, 2009, just a few months after Hard Times saw its first commercial release.

It's entirely possible that this collection comes out with every song in tact—minus Ice Cap.

ZeoVGM · Apr 21, 2022

MondoMega said:
3&K hasn't been rereleased in a decade; do you have a better explaination to offer up if you don't think the music is the cause?

I didn't say I don't think the music is the case. I'm saying that we simply don't know for sure.

The game has been re-released multiple times in the past, including a couple weeks before and a couple years after Jackson's death. The whole situation is strange.

ZeoVGM · Apr 21, 2022

fontguy said:
The last time Sonic 3 saw a rerelease was the Ultimate Genesis Collection, which came out February 10, 2009, just a few months after Hard Times saw its first commercial release.

Incorrect. It released on Xbox 360 in June 2009 and Steam in 2011.

Edward850 · Apr 21, 2022

Poltergust said:
^I always disliked the music to Ice Cap Zone (significantly inferior to every other "ice level" theme in the entire series) and if it actually does get changed it would be an automatic improvement in my book.

fite me

Such a statement must be settled with a duel. Dwango5, MAP01, Odamex.
(This isn't serious, I don't actually have the time. :V)

Deleted member 36578 · Apr 21, 2022

Poltergust said:
^I always disliked the music to Ice Cap Zone (significantly inferior to every other "ice level" theme in the entire series) and if it actually does get changed it would be an automatic improvement in my book.

fite me

WTF HOW!?
You're insane.

Lord Vatek · Apr 21, 2022

Poltergust said:
^I always disliked the music to Ice Cap Zone (significantly inferior to every other "ice level" theme in the entire series) and if it actually does get changed it would be an automatic improvement in my book.

fite me

Nah you're right.

Ice Cap is the best of the Jackston tracks but that's hardly saying much. It's certainly not so good that it was worth all of the fuss.

RagnarokX · Apr 21, 2022

Lord Vatek said:
Eh, I'm not going to lose sleep over the Jackson tracks.

They make up a very small percentage of the overall OST of S3&K and only one or two are any good.

Well, Ice Cap is one of the tracks and a lot of people consider it one of the best Classic tracks. I'm not too hung up on Carnival Night or Launch Base but I do think the beta tracks are inferior. I'd have liked Tee Lopes to compose original replacements that fit the levels and overall sound of the game better.

Lord Vatek · Apr 21, 2022

RagnarokX said:
Well, Ice Cap is one of the tracks and a lot of people consider it one of the best Classic tracks. I'm not too hung up on Carnival Night or Launch Base but I do think the beta tracks are inferior. I'd have liked Tee Lopes to compose original replacements that fit the levels and overall sound of the game better.

Well yeah, I just assume that whenever people ask for the original Sonic 3 soundtrack they're only talking about Ice Cap.

I refuse to believe that people care about the noise pollution of Carnival Night and Launch Base that much.

MondoMega · Apr 21, 2022

Just pay Brad Buxer for Hard Times and use the proto tracks for Carnival Night and Launch Base, they're better anyway.

RockmanBN · Apr 21, 2022

OG release Launch Base is great

diablogg · Apr 21, 2022

OG Ice Cap Act 2 is god tier. Are the original Sonic 3 tracks not in this game or do we not know yet?

Mewzard · Apr 21, 2022

diablogg said:
OG Ice Cap Act 2 is god tier. Are the original Sonic 3 tracks not in this game or do we not know yet?

It's all been assumption, since Sega's yet to state anything.

MondoMega · Apr 21, 2022

diablogg said:
OG Ice Cap Act 2 is god tier. Are the original Sonic 3 tracks not in this game or do we not know yet?

The state of the music is unkown. Since this is Sonic 3&K some of the Jackson associated tracks (Knuckles' Theme, the Mini Boss Theme and Credits theme) are already replaced by their Sonic & Knuckles equivalents by default, so it's just the themes for Carnival Night, Ice Cap and Launch Base in question. Also the Competition Mode menu; but getting the proto track there is just a clear upgrade.

Deleted member 36578 · Apr 21, 2022

Honestly if it has the replacement tracks it's a HUGE turn off for me. At least the replacement tracks I've heard before. It's so weird how a few select songs are like this.

diablogg · Apr 21, 2022

Mewzard said:
It's all been assumption, since Sega's yet to state anything.

MondoMega said:
The state of the music is unkown. Since this is Sonic 3&K some of the Jackson associated tracks (Knuckles' Theme, the Mini Boss Theme and Credits theme) are already replaced by their Sonic & Knuckles equivalents by default, so it's just the themes for Carnival Night, Ice Cap and Launch Base in question. Also the Competition Mode menu; but getting the proto track there is just a clear upgrade.

Damn. Well if they really are out I hope it isn't too difficult to mod back in because honestly, other than waiting for DRM to be removed, personally I wouldn't bother rebuying these games if the original music isn't included with no way to mod back in (I've already bought these damn games x2-3 times over at this point.)

I consider OG Ice Cap to be in my top 20 tracks produced during that era so it not being included would be a huge bummer.

Tailzo · Apr 21, 2022

I'm going to have pizza and videogames night with a friend when I buy this game

We're 37 years old with families

Poltergust · Apr 21, 2022

brokeastronaut said:
WTF HOW!?
You're insane.

Simple. Ice level themes better than Ice Cap:

Diamond Dust Zone Act 1 (Genesis)
Diamond Dust Zone Act 1 (Saturn)
Be Cool, Be Wild, and Be Groovy
Ice Mountain Zone Act 2
Ice Paradise Zone Act 2
Twinkle Snow Zone Act 1
White Park Zone Act 2

Sonic 3's Ice Cap lacks what all these other songs have, and that's an actual beat to follow. It's all just noise to me with no actual flow.

And yes, I even prefer music from Sonic 4: Episode 2 over it idgaf

Deleted member 36578 · Apr 21, 2022

Poltergust said:
Simple. Ice level themes better than Ice Cap:

Diamond Dust Zone Act 1 (Genesis)
Diamond Dust Zone Act 1 (Saturn)
Be Cool, Be Wild, and Be Groovy
Ice Mountain Zone Act 2
Ice Paradise Zone Act 2
Twinkle Snow Zone Act 1
White Park Zone Act 2

Sonic 3's Ice Cap lacks what all these other songs have, and that's an actual beat to follow. It's all just noise to me with no actual flow.

And yes, I even prefer music from Sonic 4: Episode 2 over it idgaf

None of those have as awesome of a beat as Sonic 3 Ice Cap. I just don't even know what else to say here lol!!! You're a crazy person.

MondoMega · Apr 21, 2022

Poltergust said:
Simple. Ice level themes better than Ice Cap:

Diamond Dust Zone Act 1 (Genesis)
Diamond Dust Zone Act 1 (Saturn)
Be Cool, Be Wild, and Be Groovy
Ice Mountain Zone Act 2
Ice Paradise Zone Act 2
Twinkle Snow Zone Act 1
White Park Zone Act 2

Sonic 3's Ice Cap lacks what all these other songs have, and that's an actual beat to follow. It's all just noise to me with no actual flow.

And yes, I even prefer music from Sonic 4: Episode 2 over it idgaf

The real question is if you prefer proto Ice Cap.

Soj · Apr 21, 2022

It's always a good sign when I've been staring at your multi page preorder guide for 5 minutes just trying to work out how to read it.

I assume this is to confuse me into buying the Digital Deluxe edition that comes with everything. Does it come with everything? I can't even tell.

Poltergust · Apr 21, 2022

MondoMega said:
The real question is if you prefer proto Ice Cap.

Eh, it's a stinker too (for an entirely different reason; it just sounds unfinished). Don't really want to say I prefer it considering I dislike both.

Hayeya · Apr 21, 2022

Can we play Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles separately? That's the only question i have.
Or are we stuck with Sonic 3 & Knuckles?

Kazooie · Apr 21, 2022

The Sum of Zero said:
Hot take, Sonic 4 ep 2 is not as bad as everyone says it is.

Sonic 4 Ep. 2 is pretty good. Ep. 1 sucks, but 2 is nice.

SuperOctopus · Apr 21, 2022

perpetuallyawake said:
Did y'all see this Devolver tweet lmao

That's just perfect :D

MarcelloF · Apr 21, 2022

I really like the Ice Cap prototype music, but I do think it fits Ristar more.

Ferrs · Apr 21, 2022

Tbf Ristar Snow area themes both shit all over normal and prototype Ice Cap.

Light-Cloud · Apr 21, 2022

I'm probably the only one but I wish that Amy was playable in some way. I've seen romhacks of the original games with her added in as a playable character so I know that it's possible. Seeing her being used in the official artwork but not be featured in the games so odd to me.

TheCongressman · Apr 21, 2022

Light-Cloud said:
I'm probably the only one but I wish that Amy was playable in some way. I've seen romhacks of the original games with her added in as a playable character so I know that it's possible. Seeing her being used in the official artwork but not be featured in the games so odd to me.

You're not, a lot of people want that.

MondoMega · Apr 21, 2022

Light-Cloud said:
I'm probably the only one but I wish that Amy was playable in some way. I've seen romhacks of the original games with her added in as a playable character so I know that it's possible. Seeing her being used in the official artwork but not be featured in the games so odd to me.

Behind the whole DLC and edition chart and Knuckles apparently not being playable in CD according to Famitsu, the lack of playable Amy is probably the third biggest gripe i've seen people have so far.

Ferrs · Apr 21, 2022

Light-Cloud said:
I'm probably the only one but I wish that Amy was playable in some way. I've seen romhacks of the original games with her added in as a playable character so I know that it's possible. Seeing her being used in the official artwork but not be featured in the games so odd to me.

There was A LOT of demand for Amy when they announced Mania Plus (and dissapointment afterwards). To the point that they added her in a Mania Adventures episode.

Honestly I find it weird they didn't add her here after that.

Light-Cloud · Apr 21, 2022

TheCongressman said:
You're not, a lot of people want that.

MondoMega said:
Behind the whole DLC and edition chart and Knuckles apparently not being playable in CD according to Famitsu, the lack of playable Amy is probably the third biggest gripe i've seen people have so far.

Ferrs said:
There was A LOT of demand for Amy when they announced Mania Plus (and dissapointment afterwards). To the point that they added her in a Mania Adventures episode.

Honestly I find it weird they didn't add her here after that.

It's good to know I'm not the only one at least. I was under the impression that most people didn't like Amy very much. I've never understood why that was the case, I've always liked her. I'm glad that my impression may have been wrong.

Cogniferous · Apr 21, 2022

Camjo-Z said:
They're used for backgrounds on the JP website. Here's the other two:

Thanks for this. All 4 of them are gorgeous. I can feel the extra £4 for the camera mode burning a hole in my pocket as we speak.

MarcelloF · Apr 21, 2022

What's unfortunate about the DLC is that they probably could've done more with it. I'd've accepted a season pass for like €10 if it was a playable character pack of Amy, Ray, Mighty or some of the Chaotix. Maybe have a short campaign with few exclusive levels for each character based around their abilities taking place in areas from the games already included, and also adjust the current games to not break with them. Price can be adjusted accordingly if needed.

The current DLC stuff, is such basic stuff that was clearly cut from the actual game to make some extra money. They could've had some physical collector's edition with ~~cheap garbage~~ collectibles that people love, to make that money, without cutting pointless crap from the game.

On another note, I do think the orange to red gradient on the Deluxe Edition looks nicer than the blue to green

Ferrs said:
Tbf Ristar Snow area themes both shit all over normal and prototype Ice Cap.

Oh, I agree, but Ristar just has a fantastic OST in general.

I've always just felt, with some instrument alterations, it'd feel right at home in Ristar.

Shaoran Hyku · Apr 21, 2022

Fans are going to be really fast at making a Plus mod to add Knuckles to CD, and Amy to all games, maybe even Ray and Mighty, because is using the same engine that fans have been modding since 2013. Sucks for console players though.

Hutchie · Apr 21, 2022

Shaoran Hyku said:
Fans are going to be really fast at making a Plus mod to add Knuckles to CD, and Amy to all games, maybe even Ray and Mighty, because is using the same engine that fans have been modding since 2013. Sucks for console players though.

Dunno, many will be fine playing the game as is

Tetsujin · Apr 21, 2022

All this talk about Sonic 3 music rights and no one's talking about the one where there were actually confirmed rights issues: Sonic CD!
I need to know whether the vocals for the original OP and ED are in this time. =P

Bonito_Flakes · Apr 21, 2022

I'm split on the final Vs prototype music question... for example I hate Carnival Night Zone mostly because of the music and only now like the Zone because of Sonic 3 A.I.R and being able to use prototype music. At the same time though I do prefer the final version of Launch Base Zone over the prototype so it would be great if you could pick which Zone had which song (but given that the CD remake didn't have that feature don't expect it here). At the end of the day just please let us do something about 3&K Super Sonic theme, cause in the final version is a terrible 13 second loop and this possible prototype version is so much better.

MondoMega · Apr 21, 2022

Shaoran Hyku said:
Fans are going to be really fast at making a Plus mod to add Knuckles to CD, and Amy to all games, maybe even Ray and Mighty, because is using the same engine that fans have been modding since 2013. Sucks for console players though.

Oh, of course. Retro Engine modding is wide open now so I wouldn't be surprised to see stuff like this ported from the old remasters to the new ones.

I'd be shocked if the Jackson music mod wasn't available within an hour of launch.

Ferrs · Apr 21, 2022

MarcelloF said:
On another note, I do think the orange to red gradient on the Deluxe Edition looks nicer than the blue to green

I preordered the digital deluxe on PSN and the app still has the regular blue/green icon.

Fendoreo1 · Apr 21, 2022

Shaoran Hyku said:
Fans are going to be really fast at making a Plus mod to add Knuckles to CD, and Amy to all games, maybe even Ray and Mighty, because is using the same engine that fans have been modding since 2013. Sucks for console players though.

Yeah probably and thankfully, I assume Sonic Team will do one themselves eventually if the game does well

Kain-Nosgoth · Apr 21, 2022

Lmao at that price

Add to that some really dumb DLC that should have been in the package from the start

And then add freaking denuvo

Yeah no thanks for now

fontguy · Apr 21, 2022

Bonito_Flakes said:
I'm split on the final Vs prototype music question... for example I hate Carnival Night Zone mostly because of the music and only now like the Zone because of Sonic 3 A.I.R and being able to use prototype music. At the same time though I do prefer the final version of Launch Base Zone over the prototype so it would be great if you could pick which Zone had which song (but given that the CD remake didn't have that feature don't expect it here). At the end of the day just please let us do something about 3&K Super Sonic theme, cause in the final version is a terrible 13 second loop and this possible prototype version is so much better.

See, this is the actual upgrade.

plufim · Apr 21, 2022

Shaoran Hyku said:
Fans are going to be really fast at making a Plus mod to add Knuckles to CD, and Amy to all games, maybe even Ray and Mighty, because is using the same engine that fans have been modding since 2013. Sucks for console players though.

Wait, Knuckles isn't in Sonic CD?

mrmickfran · Apr 21, 2022

$40 goddamn

Grain Silo · Apr 21, 2022

Bonito_Flakes said:
I'm split on the final Vs prototype music question... for example I hate Carnival Night Zone mostly because of the music and only now like the Zone because of Sonic 3 A.I.R and being able to use prototype music. At the same time though I do prefer the final version of Launch Base Zone over the prototype so it would be great if you could pick which Zone had which song (but given that the CD remake didn't have that feature don't expect it here). At the end of the day just please let us do something about 3&K Super Sonic theme, cause in the final version is a terrible 13 second loop and this possible prototype version is so much better.

I'm with you, the prototype/PC track for Carnival Night was the only one I definitely favored over the final Genesis track. The Genesis Carnival Night theme is so low-tempo and has that old circus tune attached to it, it felt really out of place in the game to me. The other MJ/Buxer tracks are so much better and I prefer those over the prototypes as well, but I'm not going to hold my breath over whether or not they'll be that granular with how much they'll let us customize the games.

I'm honestly curious about what has changed regarding the music rights with this release considering it was what prevented 3&K from being remastered for mobile like 1 and 2. They could have said to heck with it and just went with the prototype tracks instead, but Ice Cap for instance is just so beloved that that would be a deal-breaker for a lot of people. It'd be like if they had to replace Green Hill Zone's music. When considering the steep $40 price point I think it's very possible that Sega might have just sucked it up and paid MJ's estate, Brad Buxer et al their cut this release.

BassForever · Apr 21, 2022

Ferrs said:
There was A LOT of demand for Amy when they announced Mania Plus (and dissapointment afterwards). To the point that they added her in a Mania Adventures episode.

Honestly I find it weird they didn't add her here after that.

Sega "What would Sonic do if Amy was playable"

Though I agree, can't imagine it would have been THAT much work to do a sprite swap of Sonic to make Amy playable. I get not wanting to reprogram 1-4 games to have her play like her Sonic Advance gameplay, but just a sprite swap would probably make a lot of people happy.

Sonic Origins releases June 23rd

One Winged Slayer

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios

Deleted member 36578

One Winged Slayer

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

Deleted member 36578

One Winged Slayer

Deleted member 36578

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

Unshakable Resolve

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer