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McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,971
I will never see enough Xbox Adaptive Controller stories. If Sony ever attends E3 again, which seems less and less likely, I want them to start the show by inviting Microsoft on stage to say they are officially support the controller platform. And if I can't get that, can I get a non-E3 version of this with Sony and Nintendo?
 

Observable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
946
That's really awesome, didn't realize it could be used for other consoles but it's great people are finding out ways to make it work.
 

Kawika

Member
Nov 30, 2017
42
If anyone us interested, MS and Logitech teamed up to make adaptive buttons. These are great even if you aren't using the xbox controller as they are compatible with all headphone jack adaptive devices.


Edit: $100 may seem like a lot but adaptive buttons can cost $40-60 each. This comes with 12. Its truly amazing for people trying to set up an adaptive controller. I wish i knew about these earlier.
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,516
Here's a Million Dollar smile from Ava (who, according to her father, has the rare genetic disorder HSP: (https://twitter.com/JerseyITGuy/status/1218999341957963778)):



This was made possible by her father and Microsoft's Adaptive Controller (he has detailed part of the build process in other tweets).

It all though begs the question - why don't console manufacturers cater more to the disabled?
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,253
That's amazing!

For anyone who is (like i was) wondering how the XAC connects to the Switch - the missing piece is this dongle that lets you connect all kinds of wireless controllers to your Switch (or PC).

I love how the 'body' for this controller (in its current version) is just a plastic organizer box.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
I've seen sentiment that Nintendo treats video games as a toy, and idk if I agree with that, but it's true they don't give a fuck about accessibility. I hope Sony will get there, but honestly Xbox's big push kind of seemed out of nowhere to me? It's obviously a super good thing that should hopefully get others on board but part of me is surprised Xbox is paying so much attention to it.
 

Tarantism

Member
Nov 8, 2017
361
Amazing story, what a dude.

To your point about console manufacturers not doing enough in terms of accessibility options: it's been a bugbear of mine for some time and specifically with regards to Nintendo. They position themselves as making games for "everyone" but then go an entire console generation making first part games with non-negotiable motion controls. Both Sony and Nintendo could and should do more though.

With Nintendo's positive relationship with Microsoft I would like to see them just add native support for their Adaptive Controller. If Sony insist on not working with them on anything they should at least offer an alternative themselves.
 

Cirrus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,115
I'm glad there was a way to get it working with the Switch. All consoles should support the Adaptive controller natively.
 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,516
I'd imagine that because of the range of physical disabilities that can affect people it must be difficult to build an appropriate controller at a large enough scale to make it financially worthwhile for them.

But something like the MS Adaptive Controller could at least be officially supported by the main console manufacturers. As it stands you need an adapter to use the controller, yet that wouldn't be needed if Nintendo and Sony added support for it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
526
I've seen sentiment that Nintendo treats video games as a toy, and idk if I agree with that, but it's true they don't give a fuck about accessibility. I hope Sony will get there, but honestly Xbox's big push kind of seemed out of nowhere to me? It's obviously a super good thing that should hopefully get others on board but part of me is surprised Xbox is paying so much attention to it.


The XB1 has been making an accessibility push for a while now. They have had features like text to speech, descriptive services, closed caption, game narration, even co-pilot built-in as part of the OS
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
I've seen sentiment that Nintendo treats video games as a toy, and idk if I agree with that, but it's true they don't give a fuck about accessibility. I hope Sony will get there, but honestly Xbox's big push kind of seemed out of nowhere to me? It's obviously a super good thing that should hopefully get others on board but part of me is surprised Xbox is paying so much attention to it.

Speaking from a European perspective, I do feel that awareness of issues around diversity and inclusion are probably higher in the US than pretty much anywhere else in the world (Europe isn't far behind, but still seems to be lagging a bit for the most part, albeit that's not necessarily true of all European countries), and I think that this has embedded itself in US corporate culture too. With that in mind, it doesn't surprise me one bit that a US company is leading way with something like this.
 

mrfusticle

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,548
Good feels :)

I loved the look on her face when he suggested her lil bro had a go ... like "nope, mine" :D
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
If Sony and Nintendo can't be bothered to make their own rendition of adaptive controller then they definitely need to support the Xbox's. Make that adaptive controller, platform agnostic.

Also, a while ago, I made a thread pertaining to standardization of accessibility options and one of Era members, Ian Hamilton ( Ianhamilton_ ) who was a spokesperson at 2018 GAconference which deals with accessibility options and standards made this post:

Game accessibility specialist here, I'm the person who Mark mentions at the end of the above GMTK video. I can shed some light on some of this 🙂



PS4 was the first console to gain accessibility features, in April 2015. As of last year every major gaming platform (XB, PS, Switch, iOS, Android, PC) has platform level accessibility functionality. They could all do more, but everyone is now on the right path.

The most commonly complained about issues in games themselves are remapping, colourblindness, text size, subtitle content & presentation, and intensity of effects and camerawork. There's a great deal more outside of those things too.


That's huge! Most new TV sales aren't that big, let alone ones people already own. A better test setup is 40" at 10 feet. But you're absolutely right in thinking a major cause of tiny text is designs not being tested in realistic TVs. Often they are never tested on any TVs. That needs to change.



While lack of ROI is a reasonably common misconception, it is 100% untrue. Uncharted 4's one hand control option was used by 1/3 (millions) of their players. Far Cry New Dawn's subtitles by 97% of their players. And that's just usage, not even looking at financial value/cost of good/bad PR, or the cost of remediation - for example deciding at the outset to use decent text size costs nothing, $0, is just a decision. But games like Death Stranding, God Of War and Outer Worlds having to go back in and try to patch in larger text after the complaints rolled in.. that can be extremely difficult and expensive.



Publishers have requirements. Ubisoft have had a hard requirement for every game they publish to have subtitles since 2008, following the uproar over the first assassin's creed game not having any.

And it's about to change for platforms. Stadia have announced that they are working on mandatory accessibility requirements to apply across every game on the platform. That'll have wider impact, first directly as most stadia games are released on other platforms too, and secondly indirectly through throwing down the gauntlet to their competitors.



It isn't a good approach, for many reasons. Microsoft have publicly stated many times that is only intended for legacy games, that it isn't a substitute and that devs need to implement it in-game. IMO it should be mandatory. It used to be, games were not allowed to be released on the Sega Saturn unless they had in game remapping.



See above Re Stadia. Indies actually lead this field, for a number of reasons. The basics are neither difficult or expensive if considered early enough.

There are already some regulations too 🙂



See above for ROI.

There are now regulations covering some games, anything with voice/text chat is covered by CVAA. Outside that though lots of companies are quickly jumping onboard, simply because they want to.



PlayStation was the first console to get accessibility features, in 2015. PSX was the first public company event to have an accessibility panel, in 2016. Also in 2016 the extensive accessibility work on Uncharted 4 and the publicity that PlayStation gave it turned perception of accessibility in the AAA sector on its head, much of the great work being done today stems directly from that. People like Shawn Layden and Phil Spencer have often publicly praised their competitors' accessibility wins.



An API for shared subtitling settings existed on the Xbox 360. Still does. But most devs don't know it exists, let alone use it.



See above, Sony have been leaders in this field and have had more of an impact on the games side of it than Microsoft have. Nintendo have at least done something now, and with the rapidly shifting consumer expectations they're going to have to do more, and quickly.

Moral obligation to stand along with - absolutely. That includes taking a stand over things like difficulty in sekiro.



It actually came from Google (see above), and the US government (see here - https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/IanHamilton/20190123/334910/Demystifying_CVAA.php). The EU recently signed similar laws to CVAA into effect, local laws for which should start appearing in around 5 years time. But CVAA is effectively a global law anyway as it protects the rights of US citizens, therefore affects developers who want their games to be able to be sold to people in the USA.

As far as written stuff goes, there's a great deal. E.g. www.gameaccessibilityguidelines.com



Bingo, traditionally this has always been the main issue, lack of awareness. That's very quickly changing. While misconceptions sometimes do exist around cost, effort, benefit, impact on vision etc (most commonly regarding how to prioritise display against other work, i.e. 'how can I justify feature X when there's also feature Y to do', NOT 'feature X isn't worth us comsidering'), devs are jumping onboard very quickly. There are now around 20 people employed in full time game accessibility roles within studios and publishers, a few years ago that number was 3, a few before that it was zero. In a few months even just the positions I know are currently being filled will take it to 25. It's all moving in the right direction.



GDC usually has half a dozen or so accessibility talks. For the past few years there has been an entire conference solely on accessibility, check out the previous lineups - https://www.gaconf.com/archive/



There isn't that much that can reasonably be required across all games. But a couple more that could be are text that is scalable/has large default, and subtitles that are comprehensive and with configurable presentation.




They've been blockers for a long time, but this is finally starting to happen. As of this year both unity and unreal are working on cross platform native text to speech and screen reader support, to make UI accessible to gamers with no or low vision. Unity have an open call out on their forums for feedback from devs on what they can do to help make accessibility implementation easier, there's tons that they could be doing.

Until then there are also third party engine plugins, like sInput, seeingVR, Yellow Subs Machine and Unity Accessibility Plugin.



There will not, because (apart from section 508 for games in federal use, including educational games in schools) ADA does not apply to games in any way. The closest is CVAA, which covers voice/text chat functionality and any UI or info needed to navigate to or operate it (https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/IanHamilton/20190123/334910/Demystifying_CVAA.php). CVAA lawsuits don't exist, it's all done through the FCC, though they have power to impose fines of up to $1m for non compliance.

--------+

So in all... The state of the industry isn't quite as bad as some here think. For example these recent games all had a wide range of accessibility options -

Battlefield V
Madden 20
FIFA 20
Metro Exodus
Red Dead Redemption 2
Division 2
Devil may cry 5
Mortal Kombat 11
Apex Legends
Gears of war 5
Ghost Recon Breakpoint
Borderlands 3
Jedi Fallen Order

In 2016 it was massive news that one single game (Uncharted 4) had multiple accessibility options, so there's rapid progress.

All of these games are studios taking their first step, introducing a bit of functionality late in development. And they always say the same - "Man. If only we had thought about this earlier." In their next games they will have thought about it earlier, the next couple of years are going to see huge advances.

But there hasn't been one single game on that list that managed to get all four of these features right - colourblindness, remapping, text size, subtitles.

Those kind of basics are I think where mandatory requirements could step in, and it's platforms that can drive it. Stadia haven't revealed what their mandatory requirements will be yet, but I imagine that when they do it will quickly spread to other platforms too.

And for reference, here is his video from the 2018:



I think us able bodied folks often forget about our often overlooked disabled kin when it comes to this medium (especially given budgetary restrictions faced by smaller devs). Strides have been made and yet more work remains to be done with the arrival of new consoles.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,438
Speaking from a European perspective, I do feel that awareness of issues around diversity and inclusion are probably higher in the US than pretty much anywhere else in the world (Europe isn't far behind, but still seems to be lagging a bit for the most part, albeit that's not necessarily true of all European countries), and I think that this has embedded itself in US corporate culture too. With that in mind, it doesn't surprise me one bit that a US company is leading way with something like this.
A big reason for that is because of MS's current CEO. Here's a story on that
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,794
Kind of interesting isn't that "Empathy" is the key driver in making these cornerstone movements in a rapid and public fashion.

It is VERY difficult to make people feel empathy towards others. Especially in a digital world where it is so easy to ignore others.
Sad, but it is how it is. Game dev driven by empathy can be such a powerful thing.

Suggest reading Hit Refresh by Nadella. Goes into more details on what the thought process behind the transformation of Microsoft has been.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
It is VERY difficult to make people feel empathy towards others. Especially in a digital world where it is so easy to ignore others.
Sad, but it is how it is. Game dev driven by empathy can be such a powerful thing.

Empathy permeates all aspects of life and its hardship and no matter how hard one tries, one cannot truly be empathetic towards another without having experienced same or very similar affairs as the other. The folks here talking about how teary eyed they get (as do I when I see these and many more feel good emotional stories) are feeling sympathetic (save those here who have gone through or have personally dealt with others in same or similar predicament).

Sympathy is good for raising $, empathy is good for driving changes.

Colour me cynical but pitching accessibility options to higher ups who care about revenue, profitability, share prices and market cap in a hyper capitalistic society, has to be backed up by more than "this is the right thing to do". It generally comes down what this goodwill and exposure will earn back in $. Had Satya Nadella's offspring not been affected by CP, his transformation as a person, as a father and finally as a leader would have been on a different trajectory (he alludes to this himself).

I have seen this time and time again, rich and powerful and celebrity figures open up foundations after personally suffering from or have someone very close to them suffer from some life altering circumstance. At times, it really feels like the average population is at the mercy of circumstances that births empathy in the rich and powerful to make tectonic shifts for betterment of all.

In any event, this is why I love threads like these that highlights the progress this medium has made thus far and their next set of targets. And it is that much more of a shame when these threads fail to generate conversations beyond a few pages because majority of us here are able bodied folks who can, with exceptions, never fully grasp the interfacing hardships of the minority who are suffering from one or more of myriad disabilities.
 

Soran

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
697
I wonder how those stupid forced motion control shrines will work with that. Nintendo doesn't just ignore gamers with disabilities but outright screw them over with the motion bs in many of their Switch games.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
I think we need to make more noise about this, good going on MS to get the ball rolling so far but would be easier if others show interest too. Hope for an open shared standard next gen.
 

Pakitarou

Member
Nov 14, 2017
114
Simply wonderful. Hats off to the dad for taking the time and building something like this for his daughter (and to MS for making such a controller in the first place)
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,794
Empathy permeates all aspects of life and its hardship and no matter how hard one tries, one cannot truly be empathetic towards another without having experienced same or very similar affairs as the other. The folks here talking about how teary eyed they get (as do I when I see these and many more feel good emotional stories) are feeling sympathetic (save those here who have gone through or have personally dealt with others in same or similar predicament).

Sympathy is good for raising $, empathy is good for driving changes.

Colour me cynical but pitching accessibility options to higher ups who care about revenue, profitability, share prices and market cap in a hyper capitalistic society, has to be backed up by more than "this is the right thing to do". It generally comes down what this goodwill and exposure will earn back in $. Had Satya Nadella's offspring not been affected by CP, his transformation as a person, as a father and finally as a leader would have been on a different trajectory (he alludes to this himself).

I have seen this time and time again, rich and powerful and celebrity figures open up foundations after personally suffering from or have someone very close to them suffer from some life altering circumstance. At times, it really feels like the average population is at the mercy of circumstances that births empathy in the rich and powerful to make tectonic shifts for betterment of all.

In any event, this is why I love threads like these that highlights the progress this medium has made thus far and their next set of targets. And it is that much more of a shame when these threads fail to generate conversations beyond a few pages because majority of us here are able bodied folks who can, with exceptions, never fully grasp the interfacing hardships of the minority who are suffering from one or more of myriad disabilities.

Yeah, agree with everything. Read the Hit Refresh book, and he very much as you said, while maybe not directly, indirectly attributes his change not only for himself as a person, but also for Microsoft as a company, to the challenges that his family has had. As you say, to truly understand these things, you have to be very directly impacted by it.

I cannot even blame people for not adding more accessibility features in their games, it is not because they do not want to do it, but simply because they do not fully understand how it is to be affected by some impairment.
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
Why is Microsoft the least expected to pull a move like this? I don't understand the reasoning.
Yeah, I know. Microsoft has so many different divisions and products with so many different methods of interfacing with them, so it shouldn't be surprising that they're the ones who put out a product to facilitate greater accessibility. I do wish Microsoft had taken it even further by offering low-cost alternatives to other accessibility products that can interface with the Xbox Adaptive Controller, but I understand that there're so many different devices out there that it's not really feasible for Microsoft to cover all of the bases. Plus, it's nice that Microsoft took the initiative to even pay attention to the packaging and setup of the Xbox Adaptive Controller to ensure that those parts of the ownership process were manageable to people with disabilities.
 
OP
OP
wwm0nkey

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,551
I think we need to make more noise about this, good going on MS to get the ball rolling so far but would be easier if others show interest too. Hope for an open shared standard next gen.
I don't think Nintendo or Sony could see this and not ask themselves "why aren't we supporting this officially again?"
 

Advc

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,632
That must had took a tremendoous amount of work but tooootally worth it! She is now the new hero of Hyrule :')
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
Its kind of surprising BotW doesn't have an easier mode since Mario games do. Hope she really enjoys it.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,357
honestly Xbox's big push kind of seemed out of nowhere to me? It's obviously a super good thing that should hopefully get others on board but part of me is surprised Xbox is paying so much attention to it.

This is Nadella's Microsoft now. It's very different from Balmers, or etc. Internally and externally.They have different goals, focus on services, trying to improve the culture, etc etc.

Nadella is big on accessibility because he's seen first hand the difficulties folks face.


His son was born with cerebral palsy, and I think because of that Nadella has made accessibility a priority, and is more accepting of the Xbox division to spend R&D implementing new software and hardware features to increase accessibility for users.