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Some parody VN called Pizza Game apparently has a huge spoiler for Zero Time Dilemma, an unrelated VN. (Beware ZTD spoilers)
- Thread starter Deleted member 8861
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I dont really agree with that. It doesnt give you any real information to work with at all other than your decisions matter. You could multiple route games like Zero Escape where every route is an ending or DDLC where every route is a variation that still leads to the same end. Its not specific and I honestly dont see how it impacts your decision making.
They don't also say Bruce Willis is a ghost do they?
3 years is long enough. Anti spoiler culture is the absolute pits.
3 years is long enough. Anti spoiler culture is the absolute pits.
Whoa, calm down. They are bigger things to worked up about that a story spoiler. Life will move and people will be fine. My condolences to all those players who have yet to read the VN and were excited.
No, I don't think the sole point is the twist. I've played through the entire series + some of his earlier games. They're just as much about how they build up to the grand reveal, the way the story is framed and the puzzles if we're talking solely the Zero Escape series. Not to mention the character beats and reveals as well which are just as important to the story arc.
If you're valuing the work Uchikoshi does based on whether or not he does some mind-bending twist at the end, then I argue you're not really that invested in the series to begin with. You're just looking for the point where he flips the tables, which makes that an expectation for every game he does.
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That means fuck all, frankly. New people get into the medium all the time, you're spoiling things for them.
So you've played/read/watched everything more than 3 years old which you could want to ever experience, K.
The sole point isn't this one particular twist but the twists ARE important to his work... And that's the point made here, that you're risking actively worsening the story for people who perhaps wanted to read the VN later on.
Well yeah, I certainly don't play VN's for the puzzles, I "endure" them because I'm invested in the story.
If we went by this logic there's be no such thing as Pop Culture and we still wouldn't be allowed to make "I am your father" references.
Right, I'm going to make a point here then:
If spoiling a twist somehow actively makes the story worse, then the story wasn't very strong to begin with. A story is just as much the adventure as it is the pay off. People need to get out of that mindset where somehow being spoiled ruins an experience, because people take that to an extreme for games they say they're going to play and then never do.
An example: I have Bloodborne The Card Game. I was playing it with coworkers, and one decided not to play because it would spoil the game for them. They proceeded to not play the game for another two years after that point, while still being concerned about spoilers ruining the experience.
Man, I'm reading the ZTD plot summary right now as a refresher, this game is actually delightfully bonkers rather than when I was playing through it and getting pissed at the twists. A valuable realization.
But yeah, the Reddit thread barely has any replies, it's a super niche game, and the spoilers are a small drop in the bucket in terms of barriers to playing ZTD. This seems like tilting a windmills. I agree with Dee Dee, the crossover population of people playing a parody indie dating sim VN and ZTD is limited and in that cross section of the Venn diagram of people who decide to play Pizza Game before ZTD and recognize the significance of what's being spoiled, they'll only get a "well shucks" from me.
But yeah, the Reddit thread barely has any replies, it's a super niche game, and the spoilers are a small drop in the bucket in terms of barriers to playing ZTD. This seems like tilting a windmills. I agree with Dee Dee, the crossover population of people playing a parody indie dating sim VN and ZTD is limited and in that cross section of the Venn diagram of people who decide to play Pizza Game before ZTD and recognize the significance of what's being spoiled, they'll only get a "well shucks" from me.
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Dammit why did I see this thread so late? Everyone else has already done the COMPLEX MOTIVES joke to death.
Life is simply unfair.
Even if that were always true, why try telling people what they should value in their entertainment?
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Nope, this argument is always parroted and it simply doesn't take into account how knowing what will happen can drastically alter your experience.
Is mystery as a genre suddenly worthless because knowing the murderer would do a lot to ruin any murder mystery story?
Going through a story you know well again does have value for most great stories, but you can never experience a story for the first time again. Spoiling people takes that chance away from them permanently, because a good story probably will surprise you at many points and not knowing of those surprises naturally can enhance the experience.
That's my takeaway—if I purport to care about media/games enough to post on a forum about them, then I have to understand the value of surprise when it comes to enjoying said media, even if it's "cheap."
Seems like a general lack of empathy.
EDIT: speaking of lacking empathy ...
This forum has the weirdest spoiler culture of any place I've been on. People really just don't care here, at all. I don't think it's even enforced through moderation.
It really sucks that the devs would do something like this, this forum prolly ain't the place to discuss it though
Yeah this basically, heck, Romeo and Juliet flat out opens up with telling you how it's going to end, are you going to stop watching the play knowing that in advance?
Heck looking at that certain other spoiler that got dropped in the thread title today, it actually got numerous news articles reporting about it and people interested in checking out the series (That or whining about how it didn't count or that they didn't like the artstyle).
That's a good point; it's about the only way in which it's a spoiler as the character isn't know by that name (
or, well, known at all
It's the game itself that has the spoiler, not the reddit. You ignored not just the OP, but the thread title too?
Can't say I agree with this take. When it comes to twisty stories, the reveals are most definitely a big part of the fun. Being informed of what the reveals are in advance takes away that fun. It'd be like somebody telling you how a magician does a certain trick before you even see it performed... the trick might still be interesting, but not having the "wow how'd they do that?!" moment significantly deflates the experience. Like, if someone went into Sixth Sense knowing the twist, sure they'd still be able to enjoy the movie and admire the foreshadowing of the twist, but they wouldn't get the mindblow "holy shit" moment.
So in other words Romeo and Juliet doesn't have any twists. A story can not have any twists and still be good, but if a story does have twists... well, see above.
This thread is an interesting example of people unaffected by spoilers making a lot of assumptions about those who are. I wish I had you guys' ability, to just let something I've learned about a piece of media pass over me without being bothered by it, but unfortunately a lot of us can't do that. The thing to understand about "spoiler culture" is that it's not something that we choose be affected by, but something that just happens to us. To be an ass about it and pretend that everyone else must be the same as you shows a real lack of empathy.
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A story opening up by telling its own conclusion is not the same fucking thing as someone else spoiling it, this is not a complicated thing to ponder. Blunt foreshadowing can be used as a storytelling device and the story can be structured around that (for example, if the story tells you things go to shit, a scene that is calm and happy for the characters can be very tense and foreboding for you), it's a valid technique, and in fact it very well can be to the detriment of the story (as an example, Persona 5 opens in the middle of a mid-to-late-game cutscene and I feel it quite lowered the impact of the scene).
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Also, anecdotally, I played Silent Hill 2 last summer and being heavily spoiled for that game actively took away from my enjoyment of it, actively ruined parts of the game. And trust me, I would agree with the majority of the people who played it that the story is a goddamn masterpiece-- maybe until the last 30 minutes or so, the game is perfect in my esteem.
Funny thing about The Sixth Sense. I saw that movie for the first time about two years ago, and I never got spoiled on the plot twist before. As the movie went on I kinda had a hunch, but I still got surprised near the end were it got confirmed. Had I known that beforehand it definitely would have cheapened the experience.
Incredibly crappy move IMO, especially as a new Unchikoshi game is coming out and people might want to be experiencing his back catalog.
All y'all being like "it's been 3 years"—sometimes I recommend games to friends after the fact—in fact one of my friends just finished 999 for the first time in August and is planning to continue through the series in the next few months. While reading that wouldn't make him immediately understand the plot of ZTD, it sure would linger and color his decision.
Also that game is like a suspense/mystery genre VN—while a spoiler should not break your enjoyment of say an action movie, I don't understand how revealing who the killer is in a game literally entirely based around slowly gaining info to solve the 'mystery' is the same as that—major plot spoilers are gonna do a lot more to hurt your enjoyment.
Also??? All this stuff about the minimal crossover??? You really think someone playing niche steam VNs isn't the exact audience who would play ZTD??? Like that seems like the exact audience who would.
It's one thing to run into a spoiler as you browse like twitter about avengers, a global phenomenon, and be like aw man because you didn't watch the movie in theaters but another to have a game you paid for spoil a game that came out only a few years ago in the same relatively niche genre.
What why did this person get banned when multiple others are effectively doing the same thing
Also that game is like a suspense/mystery genre VN—while a spoiler should not break your enjoyment of say an action movie, I don't understand how revealing who the killer is in a game literally entirely based around slowly gaining info to solve the 'mystery' is the same as that—major plot spoilers are gonna do a lot more to hurt your enjoyment.
Also??? All this stuff about the minimal crossover??? You really think someone playing niche steam VNs isn't the exact audience who would play ZTD??? Like that seems like the exact audience who would.
It's one thing to run into a spoiler as you browse like twitter about avengers, a global phenomenon, and be like aw man because you didn't watch the movie in theaters but another to have a game you paid for spoil a game that came out only a few years ago in the same relatively niche genre.
What why did this person get banned when multiple others are effectively doing the same thing
this is where i'm at with it. can't imagine the venn diagram of people playing a low key release like this and not playing ZTD but being invested in that series is much of an intersect.
though i'm also of the opinion that works relying on the twist factor are hacky anyway.
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I assume it's because they brought in colossal spoilers for a game that is not, in the slightest, related to this thread. Frankly the post should've been edited.
