Some indie devs asking for community help is unfair (read)

[cucholix]

I have a some indie devs contacts on Twitter and I really like the close relationship that a small publisher/dev can have with the community, big reason is many games from them fall into the niche category so the comunication with your user base is crucial for the succes of this titles, we do word of mouth, recommendations, share experience on Discord, and other social media, it's very straighforward unlike big corporations that only give you automated responses most of the time.

Now my rant comes with the fact that some of them seems really enthusiast to keep comunication with everyone prior the game release, everything and everyone is happy, so we user share the love with other users, we free advertise the game with retweets, coments, screenshots, etc. what happen when the game already is out? Well things are not as cool anymore, for example if you report a bug some of them just ignore you, I want to call Nicalis into this, as it would be unfair on my part call every dev/pub into this (I have had an excellent experience with Curve Digital for example, they fixed a bug I reported within weeks), Nicalis is specially keen to call users to "share the love" but they just don't give a fuck about fixing stuff when the same comunity ask for it.

Tried to they fix a glaring AI issue in Blade Strangers, where you can beat the CP by only doing sweep kicks, granted it's not a game breaking glitch but you could expect from a fighting game that the AI wasn't so dumb?

To be clear, not every dev/pub ask for comunity word of mouth directly, others do, not every dev/pub ignore patch request, others do.

It would be interesting to know if you have tried to reach some indie dev/pub and how has been your experience.

 

[ThatsMyTrunks]

Blade Strangers isn't developed by Nicalis, it's developed by Studio Saizensen and published by Nicalis. Nicalis' job is to engage a community and get people excited about it before release before moving on to the next project.

None of what you're talking about has anything to do with independent developers.

 

[gozu]

Blade Strangers isn't developed by Nicalis, it's developed by Studio Saizensen and published by Nicalis. Nicalis' job is to engage a community and get people excited about it before release before moving on to the next project.

None of what you're talking about has anything to do with independent developers.

Click to shrink...

Well that backfired.

 

[cucholix]

Blade Strangers isn't developed by Nicalis, it's developed by Studio Saizensen and published by Nicalis. Nicalis' job is to engage a community and get people excited about it before release before moving on to the next project.

None of what you're talking about has anything to do with independent developers.

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I know it's not developed by Nicalis, but it's up to Nicalis reach the developer and fix stuff, since I'm buying a product published by them. In the first paragraph I mention that is about publishers/devs.

 

[Systolique]

Sometimes they don't respond because they have to deal with ungrateful entitled comments such as your post, I watch it happen everyday in my publisher discord; poorly written drive-by comments, yelling nonsense and asking for things all the time.

The answer to your post is in your first line : they're small - very small - one or two devs, and they have to deal with hundreds of requests, and also have to continue working on fixes and updates at the same time.
They can also be very tired because game dev can take up to 2 or 3 years prior to release, and crunch happens before release, give them a break.

1. Learn to write properly
2. ALWAYS be nice, and kind, they are exhausted and responding to hundreds of requests
3. If they don't respond to you? Move on

 

[KDR_11k]

My experience is that generally most indies will quickly respond to bug reports. Mind you, most of the indies I encounter are full indies on PC who don't have a publisher like Nicalis or Curve Digital to go through (or will only involve those for console ports). Some are more pigheaded about their approach and won't accept criticism of their decisions quickly but with most it's "thanks for catching that" and an update within maybe a week.

Blade Strangers isn't developed by Nicalis, it's developed by Studio Saizensen and published by Nicalis. Nicalis' job is to engage a community and get people excited about it before release before moving on to the next project.

None of what you're talking about has anything to do with independent developers.

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I don't think that's an excuse though, Nicalis should translate and forward feedback like that if they receive it.

 

[KINGOFSHIBUYA Ltd.]

I guess that sucks, but I don't think they're really obligated to do anything about your tweet, in the same way you're not obligated to help them get the word out.

 

[Eumi]

I'm having trouble understanding your OP, but are you mad that a game dev hasn't personally responded to your request that they fix an exploit you've found in their game?

Because that is one of the few things I feel could accurately be called entitlement, for all that word gets thrown around.

Criticise issues in the game all you want, and those issues should be fixed, but you aren't owed any of the devs time to personally respond to you.

Or if your problem is more just that they haven't fixed it, well, unless you have some sort of insight into their dev process and situation it's not your place to claim they don't give a fuck. Perhaps they're working on other, more important stuff.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

There might be several reasons:
- they don't have time/budget to fix/create things the community wants
- they have other priorities
- the things community wants them to do is non-trivial
- the thing a user want is something that was requested hundreds times and someone is just tired of replying each user that a/ such thing can't be done, b/ they are working on it
- or it can be this:


the devs are listening, but for some reasons they just don't want to do things gamers want them to do; and they have the right to do this.

And you're comparing what users do for the game (basically share, comment, like) to what devs have to do for users (i.e. work - sometimes fixing even a small bug can require hours of work).



Also this:

Sometimes they don't respond because they have to deal with ungrateful entitled comments such as your post, I watch it happen everyday in my publisher discord; poorly written drive-by comments, yelling nonsense and asking for things all the time.

(..)

1. Learn to write properly
2. ALWAYS be nice, and kind, they are exhausted and responding to hundreds of requests
3. If they don't respond to you? Move on

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I'm a web developer and you have no idea how many times we receive tickets like "X doesn't work. Fix it." (where X is our product). No screenshots, no details, no explanation what, where and why doesn't it work. Such tickets are rejected right away.

 

[.exe]

I contacted PlayEveryWare about a bug I experienced in the Switch version of Elliot Quest (they were the studio who ported it to NSW). They were quite helpful, went through the effort to troubleshoot/reproduce the issue, and ended up patching it out.

10/10

 

[cucholix]

Perhaps they're working on other, more important stuff.

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Like promoting its next game, the issue that mentioned wasn't issued only for me, other people found it too. I really don't look for a personal reponse, just care for the glitch being fixed.

 

[Systolique]

I love that OP doesn't even realise he's not reporting a bug, but telling them "your game isn't good enough for me" in broken english.

 

[aiswyda]

I understand the frustration OP. Some of the smaller games I've played this year have had huge issues that prevent me from enjoying the games, and have received no patches even though the community has let them know there are these huge issues.

They don't have to respond and fix it—but the fact they don't actively dissuades me from buying another title from them again. For example, after playing little dragon's cafe for twenty hours, struggling through the awful controls, seeing multiple people alert Aksys on social media, and have Aksys constantly tweet about the game + completely ignore it annoyed me to the point where I've unfollowed them on social media and won't be buying games published by them. Not out of spite or entitlement—I just want to know I'll be playing a game with good QA and post launch patches if there are issues and I saw they didn't. I have multiple friends who adore the harvest moon type games who've asked if I'd recommend it and I make very clear it's not worth it due to the original issues and the lack of subsequent patches to fix it.

I can't tell you what to do about it, but I think that's the best way to handle this. Devs and publishers don't owe us patches—but that doesn't mean you can't stop purchasing from them or 'promoting them'.

 

[cucholix]

I love that OP doesn't even realise he's not reporting a bug, but telling them "your game isn't good enough for me" in broken english.

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When I said the game is not good enough? The game is pretty cool when playing multiplayer, it's only the AI really is not responding like it should, example not being beaten with a single move.

English is not my native language, sorry for not placing the disclaimer.

 

[XaviConcept]

• 99% chance any bug or exploit youve found the developer already knows about and theyre probably too busy doing more important things
• It is DEFINITELY NOT the publishers job to forward bugs reported by the community, thats ridiculous
• You're coming off as very entitled, fans supporting a game on social is indeed important but you're acting as if that should come with a reward. Its not your game and you dont know the myriad of reasons why they cant cater or even respond to your requests

 

[aiswyda]

I love that OP doesn't even realise he's not reporting a bug, but telling them "your game isn't good enough for me" in broken english.

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This is mean, dude. I thought the OP was understandable and not everyone's first language is English. Critique the content not the format because you obviously understood it enough to comment.

 

[KINGOFSHIBUYA Ltd.]

Like promoting its next game, the issue that mentioned wasn't issued only for me, other people found it too. I really don't look for a personal reponse, just care for the glitch being fixed.

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Well, this is the first time someone on ResetEra managed to direct quote me, but still manged to put words in my mouth.

Persona 5 was robbed. There, I said it.

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:P

 

[Deleted member 14636]

.

 

[Systolique]

This is mean, dude. I thought the OP was understandable and not everyone's first language is English. Critique the content not the format because you obviously understood it enough to comment.

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Oh I already responded to the content, which he promptly ignored, and english isn't my native language either.
But if you want a dev (or anyone really) to pay attention to your message maybe start checking how it's written?

It's not even a bug, he's asking for balance changes, should devs have to balance the game responding to every user's feedback on how the game should play? I'm pretty sure that's a no.
And what if someone thinks the AI is too hard? Should they make it even easier for that guy?
I know I hate that kind of attitude -- and I know devs too.

 

[aiswyda]

Oh I already responded to the content, and english isn't my native language either.
But if you want a dev (or anyone really) to pay attention to your message maybe start checking how it's written?

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I don't have a problem with you saying devs tend to pay more attention to grammatically correct reports or whatever. But you explicitly commented again to comment on their "broken English" which does nothing to add to the discussion and doesn't even show that devs will pay more attention. It's just being mean about someone's typing for the sake of being mean.

And that's awesome you're so good at English grammar even though it's not your native language! But not everyone has the same level of proficiency with non native languages so that's not really a good reason to be rude.

 

[cucholix]

They don't have to respond and fix it—but the fact they don't actively dissuades me from buying another title from them again.

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Exactly, sometimes I buy a game or double dip because I feel like helping small pub/devs of my favorite games. I definitely will buy Nicalis games again since they publish from several devs (Treasure included), but I guess will be more careful about some games and the devs behind, because expecting they fix stuff down the road not always apply.

 

[justiceiro]

If I ever promoted a game, was not because I was expecting been recognized by its devs, but because the game seemed good.

If devs are trying to get you to promote the game, it's a good opportunity to get them to do some kind of giveaway.

Don't take personally, it's a job, and the end result is product. Treat like it, and you will live a better life.

 

[cucholix]

And what if someone thinks the AI is too hard? Should they make it even easier for that guy?

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I guess my english is too broken for you to understand then, it's not about characters balance, the difficulty (while not being hard) is fine to have a fun 1 vs CP, but I'm talking about you crouching and spaming kicks and the CP not being able to block/avoid it...

 

[Weltall Zero]

Shouldn't you contact the developer directly with the bug rather than Nicalis? As a dev, even if I had a publisher, I'd rather people contact me directly with bugs, rather than playing a game of broken telephone. Especially because publishers are typically very busy with many projects at once and they can become a bottleneck, involuntarily delay the message or even lose it, etc. That's even without taking into account I will often have follow up questions about the bug, how often it happens, conditions for reproducing it, etc. which is infinitely easier if I don't have an intermediary with the user.

 

[circuit]

Isn't fighting game AI one of those "a lot harder to fix than it sounds" things?

 

[Teeth]

Yes, people are generally entitled to have the product they paid for work correctly. No, this is not a false entitlement.

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Define "correctly".

 

[headspawn]

Why would you intentionally go out of your way to send bug reports to the publisher and not the developer?

... and then trash talk the developer for it?

None of what you mentioned is specific to indie developers at all.

 

[GhostTrick]

Eh. It's Nicalis though. I mean, this thread could've been all about Nicalis. They're not really a good publisher.

 

[SusumuStreet]

Lol @ the stealth 'lazy devs' thread. Congrats on your entitlement OP, you're part of the problem.

 

[ASaiyan]

Eh. It's Nicalis though. I mean, this thread could've been all about Nicalis. They're not really a good publisher.

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Yup. OP picked the most heinous possible example, lol. Nicalis is literally the worst.

 

[cucholix]

Lol @ the stealth 'lazy devs' thread. Congrats on your entitlement OP, you're part of the problem.

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I specifically mention an example of good publisher/dev, so no?

Why would you intentionally go out of your way to send bug reports to the publisher and not the developer?

... and then trash talk the developer for it?

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I've directly reached devs in the past and they say redirect your report to the publisher in charge of X port.
Devs are often under a contract with the publisher, in other cases they are just do a port from other dev.

 

[sredgrin]

Bad AI isn't a bug, it's just a bad part of a game. It's not something that can easily be fixed (if at all).

 

[roguesquirrel]

Yes, people are generally entitled to have the product they paid for work correctly. No, this is not a false entitlement.

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being able to cheese the ai isnt what id call "the game not working"

 

[ThatsMyTrunks]

What you're describing as a bug is not necessarily something that is easy to fix. It seems like the AI doesn't know how to handle that specific type of attack, simple as it may be, and fixing that requires making a change to a core component of the game. To do that, you'd have to spend a lot of time manipulating the AI code and testing the hell out of it to make sure it didn't break something else. That requires employing someone to do that kind of programming as well as employing someone to do that rigorous testing. In this situation we're talking about a Japanese company that worked on a game that hasn't set the world on fire, and probably doesn't have much of a budget for post-release support.

So you're telling the publisher to fix it -- which they can't do on their own. They have to weigh whether or not it makes sense to spend the money to fix this bug, translate your concern to the Japanese developers, pay for the fix, and then QA the fix. That's not cheap. If the game didn't make its target, it can't make sense for them to spend more out of pocket to fix something fairly small.

Should they fix it? Sure. Do they have to? No.

 

[Dremorak]

I know it's not developed by Nicalis, but it's up to Nicalis reach the developer and fix stuff, since I'm buying a product published by them. In the first paragraph I mention that is about publishers/devs.

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Its absolutely not up to Nicalis to force a dev to change their CPU AI because one person on twitter thinks you can spam low kicks and win.
You can't complain they haven't done anything about it when:
- its not a bug
- it costs money to fix
- you might be the only person who has complained about it
- you have no idea whats involved to fix it
- its likely not a simple change to make, and could easily end up creating this exact situation with another character or move

 

[Baji Boxer]

It's not a bug, and may not be a priority. Hell, maybe the message did get passed on, but they haven't been able to reproduce it. Depending on the game's focus, making sure the multiplayer is as balanced and perfect as possible takes precedence over a single player exploit. This is the case for a LOT of high quality fighting games.

 

[CozMick]

Honestly op, if you ain't happy with the product just move on, then avoid anything from that publisher/developer in the future.

Worked for me for over 20 years.

If a developer isn't capable of responding to issues with said game, be it a positive or negative experience then they don't deserve your money.

 

[XaviConcept]

I think one "issue" that seems to be coming up more and more these days is that the lines are getting blurred and the community believes they have a deeper understanding of "how things work" when they really, really dont.