Which "other people" are you talking about?
Those that also offer great value to the marketplace, and able to reap great reward from it?
Or those that choose to do what is "easier", despite knowing that it will only get them so far in life?
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Software engineers are overpaid
- Thread starter ApatheticDolphin
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Those that also offer great value to the marketplace, and able to reap great reward from it?
Or those that choose to do what is "easier", despite knowing that it will only get them so far in life?
One of my clearest memories was my father passed out awkwardly with strips of black blood running down his nose. He was not a coder.
Well yeah it's definitely much more common in startup land and Fortune 500 companies, which I've seen too, but there's also a ton of mom and pop shops that pay devs from india and Ukraine to roll their own e-commerce, inventory systems or whatever. It was actually quite surprising to me how many devs are overseas compared to just a few years ago.
As someone who is graduating this year, being able to study is a privilege. Many people can't because they need to work full time for their families.
I do do it. It's mostly pretty easy. It's not janitorial work or a grocery store checkout cashier. That stuff is way harder
OP that guy is earning double the average wage of a software developer:
How Much Can a Software Developer Expect to Get Paid?
Salary information for the typical software developer.money.usnews.com
Location can also make your wage vary wildly and as people have already said software devleopers are in high demand and low supply leading to inflated wages.
finally I'm a software developer and earn no where near this:
London
5 years experience
equivilent of $60k pa
then again im in an industry that does pay less than average for Software devs (games) if i went to fintec i could be earning double... probably.
Just to repeat this. Compared to the rest of the world, the USA tends to pay way better for Software Engineers than other countries. Granted, we also get perks afforded to us by our countries which can help offset that to some extent.
And to add another Data point for myself:
Application Developer/Programmer Analyst
Ottawa
3 Years Professional Experience (However I've been programming since I was a child)
70K CAD (53K USD)
Yep, consultants earn more. And as a software engineer I agree that software * aren't really even that highly paid as far as professions go.
But yeah I'm all for all work being more fairly compensated.
Not making anywhere near that in Cleveland with twice the experience, but it's difficult to compare salaries in different cost of living regions.
I understand where you're coming from, it is frustrating, but don't be frustrated at the worker class. There are many jobs where if someone had the privilege of access to education or connections, they would likely be able to do it competently enough, and some of those jobs pay a lot. There are other more physically demanding jobs that would be a physical impossibility for some people that pay much less for what could be reasonably argued as more intensive labor. The reverse is true as well for each case, some physically demanding jobs pay great, some jobs where education is required pay shit. I think there's a tendency to think "well, they get to sit in an air-conditioned room and probably read reddit or watch youtube for some of their day while I'm sweating or being yelled at by customers, and what I do is way harder", and it's understandable but we have to avoid thinking like that and lift everyone up to a good standard of living.
Stack Overflow Developer Survey 2019
Nearly 90,000 took this comprehensive, annual survey of people who code. Demographics. Most loved, dreaded and wanted technologies. Salary and careers.insights.stackoverflow.com
This is actually a bit scary to me as someone expecting to ask for a raise in the coming months, does anyone else think the US numbers seem very low?
I'm living in a pretty rural area, but my company makes billions in yearly revenue and our revenue increases dramatically every year, so I imagine they have more than enough money to spare me my peanuts.
There's no way you can get the same lifestyle from 200k in NYC on 70k in Ohio lol.
oh you sweet sweet summer child. Just because your company is raking in dough doesnt mean they expect to share it with you. Sure you can make a reasonable case for a cost of living bump but whative found is that if you want a decent raise you polish up the resume and get another job.
I'm a professional developer. I've also worked retail in the past and pushed many a broom in my time. We are working from very different definitions of "hard", methinks.
Software engineers salaries are like that because they are 1-Really needed for big companies and 2-Hard to train. So big companies have no other choice but to pay them what a human being would actually deserve for working their asses off for a company. Everyone else is underpaid because companies can "choose" to pay them really low wages because someone else would still agree to work for that awful amount.
I was personally responsible for over 2m GBP in savings last year for one single company... and yes, I should have asked for a percentage of the savings rather than the sub six figures I actually earn. lol
It's supply and demand. it's tough to make excellent software and there aren't enough of those engineers.
If I was an advanced engineer working on AI that could actually produce excellent code, I would insure my own job Security by making it do fart sounds, act unpredictably weird any time the client interacted with it and crash all the time.
which to be fair in a few cases might pass the Turing Test.
If I was an advanced engineer working on AI that could actually produce excellent code, I would insure my own job Security by making it do fart sounds, act unpredictably weird any time the client interacted with it and crash all the time.
which to be fair in a few cases might pass the Turing Test.
It's a pretty well known stereotype that rick and morty attracts fans with an inflated ego who idolize Rick and see themselves in him.
To Be Fair, You Have To Have a Very High IQ to Understand Rick and Morty
"To Be Fair, You Have To Have a Very High IQ to Understand Rick and Morty" is a copypasta that fans and detractors of the animated television series Rick and Morty use to sarcastically respond to criticisms of the show. The text, which may have been originally posted sincerely, refers to the...
knowyourmeme.com
For the record I'm both a STEM major and a fan of Rick and Morty. I just don't try to be obnoxious about it.
Jokes on you! I took a coding boot camp!
Sounds like they're underpaid or working in some lower paying industries. I got 6 figures at my first job as a software developer with literally no experience. I know friends doing software development for the city making 6 figures.
Uh. I write JavaScript. Lol. And everyone else on my team writes Java. This is really more of a where are you working and what industry are you in, type of thing.
True but the saturation of all of the companies brings these salaries up way more.
As sad as it sounds, thats what your superiors expected from you when theycalculated your salary. And really if you already saved them the money they don't need to pay you more. So you can make the pitch and demand a raise or walk, or you go to another company and explain how much you can save them in the future and expect to be paid a reasonable percentage in the form of your salary. Companies today focus on acquiring talent not retaining it. It's why ever resume you see has a new position every two years and folks aren't dumb to do so.
PHP folks are programming in PHP. From my POV that's already enough punishment.
I interview candidates almost every other day at this point, and it's frankly shocking how many bad developers I have to talk to. Especially considering they almost all have more years developing than I do and CS degrees. That's not even me tooting my own horn, I've got a ton of weaknesses. I think there's just a disconnect between who's out there and what some companies are looking for.
I feel bad for Rick, he's the most powerful person in the universe yet he's miserable, that's as depressing as it gets.
Maybe try not to generalize people based off the media they enjoy 🙄
All I'm saying to him is if he truly values salary so much, it's not hard to invest time in a field which has high compensation. He doesn't even have to be a STEM major, there's plenty of ways to make a good living.
But instead of trying to better himself and grow his career, he decides to bitch about people who worked their ass off to get where they're at.
Java pays better than assembly.
Not because it's harder, but because the best paying jobs are in the financial sector.
I make around 70k in a cheap city in the Netherlands. BA in Computer Engineering and 15 years of experience.
I could probably make around double that as an independent contractor but it would require moving to a different part of the country. It's tempting, but I really like my current job and don't feel like moving.
edit:
I'd like to add that my University years sucked hard and my first years as a professional were miserable and paid like shit. It took a long time to get to the comfortable place where I am right now. Basically I lost my 20s and most of my 30s to this profession.
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OP
OP
lmao
did I hurt your feelings by questioning the role of software engineers in society? Screw me anyway, just wipe away your tears with your 200k salary.
It's a profession that values new grads and those with few years of experience , having 10+ years of experience you're seen as a dinosaur
OP
OP
another fun fact! I'm a woman! Who's generalizing now lmao.
Anyway given your attitude I'm sure that your non engineer co workers wish you weren't there. They work their ass off too but it doesn't matter to you.
Good analogy. Oil rig work is incredibly dangerous and difficult, and I've always felt they deserve every cent they get.
I know tech startup developers that just do java script and they make that. Experienced of course. Getting stuff done matters.
Oh man. If only. I guess that's why these companies pay what is considered a high salary to begin with.
Software engineering salary grade level. It means someone with a masters and/or a few years of experience. It's referenced specifically at places like Raytheon and Cisco. But, I don't really see it referred to such in my sector, but we still have a concept of Software Engineer 1 & 2.
Who works harder than who doesn't matter. The only thing that matter is how much profit your work generates (in regards to salary given).
Because they build shit that's important as fuck. If you could just dick around and become a good software engineer, there would be a lot more of them and they'd get paid a lot less.
People seem to be obsessed with the "hard work" angle. It ain't about how hard you work. Lifting heavy boxes all day is hard work, but you could pull many random people off the street and they are capable of lifting boxes.
People seem to be obsessed with the "hard work" angle. It ain't about how hard you work. Lifting heavy boxes all day is hard work, but you could pull many random people off the street and they are capable of lifting boxes.
yea reading some of the responses here im getting definite "100k year salary is rich" vibes.
Oh yeah I'm fully aware and always preparing for that, but that doesn't answer my question. I'm not going to have the confidence to ask for more if the average is less than what I already make.
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