Software engineers are overpaid

[ApatheticDolphin]

Lateredit: the truth is, everyone is underpaid compared to executives. While engineers make what they do according to supply and demand, my main frustration is that others' contributions aren't valued as much. I didn't intend for this to come off as a personal attack on engineers, but I don't feel sorry for making engineers consider why others might be angry at how much they make relative to others.


This thread has been making rounds on Twitter, in the spirit of pay transparency and to shed light on pay inequality that's pervasive in the tech industry.



And yet, I can't help but feel angry at these numbers. Why should people who make software make so much more than the rest of us? Why is this type of work valued so much over others?

Even those who also work in the tech industry and aren't engineers don't make nearly as much unless they're executives or directors.

Anyway, I'm just frustrated because it seems like I'll never make as much as these people, just because my brain doesn't work like theirs. They're not wildly smarter than me, they just think differently, and they're rewarded so much more for it.

 

[Qikz]

They're not overpaid. Everyone else is underpaid. If you want equality wish for better things to make everyone equally better off, not worse for others.

 

[NetMapel]

The reason is because they write softwares that in terms generate billions more to the company.

 

[nsilvias]

capitalism, where we shit on the workers while ceos laugh their way to the bank

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

They're not overpaid. Everyone else is underpaid. If you want equality wish for better things to make everyone equally better off, not worse for others.

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I agree that everyone else is underpaid, and that it's logical why software engineers make so much. Their revenue ONE person can they generate can be 2m a year, I've seen numbers.


But the second part of the statement is a totally misleading claim. Economies, markets, etc have mechanisms built in to transfer wealth from the rich to the poor because that is how modern nation states must work if you don't want high unrest. I don't think they should get paid less but the fact they often are in high tax areas because of clustering effects on economies means it kind of evens out, maybe?

 

[Vector]

Those numbers are hardly representative of Software Development positions in general. I imagine the real numbers are significantly lower than that.

They're really not overpaid and I'm speaking from first-hand experience.

 

[DGenerator]

Wild to have the mentality of a boat at the top of a rising tide should crash to the bottom of the ocean floor with the others instead of, you know, lifting all the other boats.

 

[Officer Big Mac]

Does he live in Manhattan? Queens? Yonkers? That could be 70k in Ohio or 98k depending.

 

[Aureon]

Overpaid, no.
Undertaxed, *maybe*.

 

[jvalioli]

Software "sells" for a lot of money. For Staff Software Engineer in NYC I think that comp is not very competitive.

 

[Nif]

High demand, really.

This person also lives in NYC, so that salary is skewed a bit higher.

 

[WascallyWabbit]

They're not overpaid. Everyone else is underpaid. If you want equality wish for better things to make everyone equally better off, not worse for others.

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First post nails it. This may be a you problem OP

 

[Failburger]

Because my salary is a small investment that can turn into 10s of millions of dollars.


Here's the kicker, just about anyone can learn to code.

 

[Deepwater]

If it makes you feel better, outsourced, non-us based software developers don't even make a fraction of that.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

Those numbers are hardly representative of Software Development positions in general. I imagine the real numbers are significantly lower than that.

They're really not overpaid and I'm speaking from first-hand experience.

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Also this. Friend in SF pays 6-7k rent but is paid 160k, that's not actually wealth.

 

[SnakeXs]

Because society has gone down a path of paying purely based on profit potential and necessity, rather than what work contributes to society.

They're only "overpaid" in the sense that so many meaningful professions are paid poorly. On top of that is the general knowledge that the more someone "cares" about what they do the more you can use that against them and devalue their work. A software engineer working for money likely won't continue to work if paid less, treated worse or otherwise feels taken advantage of. A teacher, less so. An artist, less so.

That on top of options available and the general glut of funding in software. What does it matter if you pay someone a few dozen grand more a year if the business plan/end goal is to get bought by one of the major tech companies and collect a big paycheck?

 

[noob-noob]

The way they think brings far more value to the company than the manager sitting above them with a MBA and no real world skills.

STEM degrees are the hardest thing you can do in college. We get fairly rewarded for the amount of grueling work we had to do in University and the kind of work we have to do for our corporations.

If it bothers you so much go back to school and get a STEM degrees, otherwise just deal with it. You knew what the salary ranges were for your major when you picked it in the first place, I don't have much sympathy for you.

 

[Chikor]

And yet, I can't help but feel angry at these numbers. Why should people who make software make so much more than the rest of us? Why is this type of work valued so much over others?

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Google made 160 billion dollars last year. They have about 100,000 employees. If they are paid under 1.6 mil a year (and most of them do) they are not overpaid.
Paying workers less will only mean shareholders and execs get to keep more.

Inequality is gross, but your anger is directed at the wrong people. The problem is that tech companies make too much money, and that can and should be addressed.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

Wild to have the mentality of a boat at the top of a rising tide should crash to the bottom of the ocean floor with the others instead of, you know, lifting all the other boats.

Click to shrink...

This is a conservatives' argument against taxation, you realize that?

 

[Sargerus]

No, it's the rest of IT that is underpaid.

 

[ApatheticDolphin]

Wild to have the mentality of a boat at the top of a rising tide should crash to the bottom of the ocean floor with the others instead of, you know, lifting all the other boats.

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Do you think that's what I'm saying? It's not what I'm intending. Do you empathize with my frustration at all?

 

[Heart of Poumn]

Because a lot of people posting numbers with enough exposure that you'll see are in hard to get positions at big companies in expensive cities. There's a lot of other software developers that are making far less that you won't see because they don't have the klout. They still get paid well, but probably aren't making six figures unless they're in a senior or manager position.

 

[Ducarmel]

Everyone is underpaid even software engineers. That salary seems more like demand than actual salaries for software engineers.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

The way they think brings far more value to the company than the manager sitting above them with a MBA and no real world skills.

STEM degrees are the hardest thing you can do in college. We get fairly rewarded for the amount of grueling work we had to do in University and the kind of work we have to do for our corporations.

If it bothers you so much go back to school and get a STEM degrees, otherwise just deal with it. You knew what the salary ranges were for your major when you picked it in the first place, I don't have much sympathy for you.

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Wow, this is such a holier than thou and bitter post. You have no sympathy for someone who wasn't even really even complaining about not being in that industry and MBAs have no value because they cant code. You're in such a bubble if you think advanced engineering is the only thing that counts as a "Real world skill."

Like really? You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[ApatheticDolphin]

The way they think brings far more value to the company than the manager sitting above them with a MBA and no real world skills.

STEM degrees are the hardest thing you can do in college. We get fairly rewarded for the amount of grueling work we had to do in University and the kind of work we have to do for our corporations.

If it bothers you so much go back to school and get a STEM degrees, otherwise just deal with it. You knew what the salary ranges were for your major when you picked it in the first place, I don't have much sympathy for you.

Click to shrink...

Fun fact! I work in tech! I'm in customer success! I tried to do CS in college, but it wasn't for me. Not everyone can or should be an engineer.

 

[Manmademan]

Does he live in Manhattan? Queens? Yonkers? That could be 70k in Ohio or 98k depending.

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This is it. NYC and the bay area have incredibly distorted salaries due to how much it costs to live there.

A quick glance at Glassdoor has the same position paying 80k average in PHL where i am.

 

[leder]

And the general consensus is that companies make about 10x more off of their labor than they pay them.

but yeah we need more steeply progressive taxes, and better wages across all professions. These numbers are why housing affordability has been absolutely decimated in the Seattle area.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

Fun fact! I work in tech! I'm in customer success! I tried to do CS in college, but it wasn't for me. Not everyone can or should be an engineer.

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Just ignore the "STEM is superior, peasants" troll.

 

[Agentnibs]

That's a lot of money but it's new york so maybe?

I'll go.
Job: Test Automation Engineer
Pay: 75k
Location: San Antonio
School: hs diploma, went to college for like 8 years, basically 1 class away from an associate's degree
Experience: 6 years

I admit sometimes I feel over paid. That being said, my goal is to get to 100k by the time I'm 30 and im fairly confident I can do it

 

[Antiax]

The way they think brings far more value to the company than the manager sitting above them with a MBA and no real world skills.

STEM degrees are the hardest thing you can do in college. We get fairly rewarded for the amount of grueling work we had to do in University and the kind of work we have to do for our corporations.

If it bothers you so much go back to school and get a STEM degrees, otherwise just deal with it. You knew what the salary ranges were for your major when you picked it in the first place, I don't have much sympathy for you.

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Your statement is egotistical and wrong on many levels but I won't even bother to elaborate.

 

[Deleted member 16365]

I imagine most are in an area where the demand exceeds the talent pool. This leads to companies competing to outbid each other as they have plenty of money but not enough people.

 

[DGenerator]

This is a conservatives' argument against taxation, you realize that?

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"Wages should go up across the board, not lowering the ones at the top" is a conservative argument?

 

[BreakyBoy]

Please direct this ire to fighting for better compensation for teachers, caregivers, [insert the majority of occupations here].

 

[TooBusyLookinGud]

I am a software engineer and that title is insane. Programming software is hard as hell.

 

[THEVOID]

IT is really underpaid as a whole if you add up what they bring to the table.

 

[leder]

The way they think brings far more value to the company than the manager sitting above them with a MBA and no real world skills.

STEM degrees are the hardest thing you can do in college. We get fairly rewarded for the amount of grueling work we had to do in University and the kind of work we have to do for our corporations.

If it bothers you so much go back to school and get a STEM degrees, otherwise just deal with it. You knew what the salary ranges were for your major when you picked it in the first place, I don't have much sympathy for you.

Click to shrink...

I'm a software engineer and most of the work is wayyyyy more about experience than college curriculum. There is a huge amount of unnecessary gatekeeping. A lot of the people I work with are dumber than people I worked retail with, and have a quarter of the work ethic.

 

[NetMapel]

Because society has gone down a path of paying purely based on profit potential and necessity, rather than what work contributes to society.

They're only "overpaid" in the sense that so many meaningful professions are paid poorly. On top of that is the general knowledge that the more someone "cares" about what they do the more you can use that against them and devalue their work. A software engineer working for money likely won't continue to work if paid less, treated worse or otherwise feels taken advantage of. A teacher, less so. An artist, less so.

That on top of options available and the general glut of funding in software. What does it matter if you pay someone a few dozen grand more a year if the business plan/end goal is to get bought by one of the major tech companies and collect a big paycheck?

Click to shrink...

This is exactly how it works right now. I'm not saying it's the right way, but it is also an understandable way. If an engineer wrote something that automated some repetitive task and saved a company $1 million, you can argue that logically, that engineer is underpaid if the salary is $200k. It is like an athlete in a sports team. Why are they paid so much? Because they attract audience who pay the team organization who makes even more money because of the athletes. If you don't want an engineer working at Instagram to make so much money, don't use Instagram. That's the bottomline.

 

[Ashrak]

They're not overpaid. Everyone else is underpaid. If you want equality wish for better things to make everyone equally better off, not worse for others.

Click to shrink...

Well, if you would raise the salary of "everyone else", nobody would earn more money.

 

[Deleted member 8901]

The way they think brings far more value to the company than the manager sitting above them with a MBA and no real world skills.

STEM degrees are the hardest thing you can do in college. We get fairly rewarded for the amount of grueling work we had to do in University and the kind of work we have to do for our corporations.

If it bothers you so much go back to school and get a STEM degrees, otherwise just deal with it. You knew what the salary ranges were for your major when you picked it in the first place, I don't have much sympathy for you.

Click to shrink...

smh

 

[onadesertedisland]

CEOs are overpaid. Managers are overpaid.

 

[SweetNicole]

You know the real problem is people getting paid too much. /s Instead of you know, focusing on the people who actually are criminally underpaid like teachers, nurses, etc.

 

[Ominym]

Anyway, I'm just frustrated because it seems like I'll never make as much as these people, just because my brain doesn't work like theirs. They're not wildly smarter than me, they just think differently, and they're rewarded so much more for it.

Click to shrink...

People in general are underpaid given the revenue and value they can and do drive both in tech and outside of it.

This person also likely works for a FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google) or adjacent company as there are plenty of places in tech that don't offer compensation packages like that.

That said don't sell yourself short here, there are plenty of roles in tech that get compensated very well that aren't software eng.

 

[molnizzle]

Fun fact! I work in tech! I'm in customer success! I tried to do CS in college, but it wasn't for me. Not everyone can or should be an engineer.

Click to shrink...

Well... software engineers are paid more because their skillset is "not for" many. It's a profession that every company needs and there aren't enough people who can do it. Basic supply and demand.

 

[noob-noob]

Wow, this is such a holier than thou and bitter post. You have no sympathy for someone who wasn't even really even complaining about not being in that industry and MBAs have no value because they cant code. Like really? You don't know what you're talking about.

Click to shrink...

I work for a biotech company. People with business degrees who don't have a single idea how the science works make dumb decisions all the time, that's just the truth. I've been in projects that have lost millions. If the scientist and engineers had more say in business decisions you'd see a lot less short sighted, bottom line, profit driven investments.

I don't think just because you know how to manage people means you should make twice what I'm making and steer the company down technological dead ends.

But hey if I really cared about a higher salary I'd go back and get an MBA 🤷‍♂️

 

[Deleted member 16657]

The way they think brings far more value to the company than the manager sitting above them with a MBA and no real world skills.

STEM degrees are the hardest thing you can do in college. We get fairly rewarded for the amount of grueling work we had to do in University and the kind of work we have to do for our corporations.

If it bothers you so much go back to school and get a STEM degrees, otherwise just deal with it. You knew what the salary ranges were for your major when you picked it in the first place, I don't have much sympathy for you.

Click to shrink...

>rick and morty avatar

You can't make this up.

 

[Planx]

I am a software engineer and that title is insane. Programming software is hard as hell.

Click to shrink...

I mean so is implementing whatever has been made, supporting it and engineering workaround solutions to software bugs and edge cases that will be fixed in a later software version

It's just those skills aren't as well compensated for whatever reason

 

[Lobster Roll]

205k is an absurd amount of money annually holy shit

 

[Lightus]

OP you could probably do this with most engineering positions. They're generally difficult positions to acquire and they generate a lot of money for the company. I think they're paid a fair amount. If anything other positions aren't paid enough.

For transparency I have a BS in CS with 5 years of experience as a team lead. I'm not making near what you've listed in the OP.

 

[jon bones]

no, the software i create generates tens of millions of dollars in revenue every year

there are not enough people here in NYC to support all software engineering needs

so NO - not overpaid at all

 

[johancruijff]