I absolutely agree also, I just think that in the short term people are more attached to their stuff than we'd like. Getting through the transition period without a revolt would always be the tricky part
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While i am against the death penalty, if the only way to (try to) save the hostage is to shoot the hostage taker, well, that's what i'll support.
I think its a good Idea spaghnum to put a FAQ later, with usual questions and sugestion of books etc:
Jacobin Magazine:
https://www.jacobinmag.com
Marxists website:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/index.htm
Jacobin Magazine:
https://www.jacobinmag.com
Marxists website:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/index.htm
maybe not 4k tvs but i'd argue music streaming services like spotify are definitely a very good thing tbh, both culturally and emotionally. granted the actual business model and music industry are straight garbage but easy access to the arts for a low price (under the current system) is vital to society.
That's the tricky thing.
I honestly am skeptical that it can even be accomplished democratically for the reasons you state.
Even if you're not a socialist, marxists.org is one of the web's greatest resources for political theory and thought.
Which, looping back around to the very stuff we were discussing earlier in this thread, has the world ever successfully managed a prolonged period of non-democratic political control as a transitional tool without falling into embedded authoritarianism?
Emotionally the best thing for people is to be with close friends and/or family. Local music gatherings could fill the emotional loss of losing Spotify.
I think easy access to the arts is great. I don't think that requires an exploitative model, so long as we dial back our expectations.
Damn right.
I hope this thread stays active for a long time. Who knows? Maybe some of us can organize through it.
There's a pretty decent socialist group in my city i'm gonna have to check out.
100% in agreement here.
and exploitative model? it's capitalism! of course it's exploitative! :smirk:
100% in agreement here.
and exploitative model? it's capitalism! of course it's exploitative! :smirk:
No I don't believe so. I don't know of any off the top of my head.
But I feel that also holds true of our current system. We didn't transition to our current system entirely peacefully.
And depending on how leftist you go, our current system isn't as democratic as you may think. How much power do we actually have as individual citizens?
I'm here to steal valour and chew bubblegum. And I am all out of gum.
And always remember that with a golden heart comes a rebel fist, never give an inch.
And always remember that with a golden heart comes a rebel fist, never give an inch.
For those of you asking for ways to get some understanding about socialism, I'd like to suggest trying out the Discourse Collective podcast, particularly the Theory series (I haven't listened to any other episodes, to be honest). They have been going through Marx & Engels' work and basically focus on a specific piece of writing each episode. It can be somewhat irony bro-y (not nearly as bad as Chapo Trap House), but regardless I've found it worthwhile to go through the reading then listen to the corresponding episode... I would have been stoked to have this kind of a resource when I first jumped into socialism. It isn't perfect, but it does get you reading the source material and then helps you grasp it by discussing it conversationally.
Technically no. At least I don't think so. But I think there's still room to discuss that stuff in a socialist topic.
Eh, I think this is true on a national level partially due to the outsized influence of private interests, but also due to the aggregation of that many people under a a state. I do think people have a degree of individual influence over how their states are governed, a significant degree of influence over how their cities are governed, and a substantial degree of influence over how their communities are governed.
But also even if the US and other implementations of democracy are highly flawed, the fundamental idea that people can, at any time, dissent from the conditions of their governance seems pretty...ethically important to me, considering the other promises of successful socialism
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I'll take this up in the simple terms.
I think the October Revolution stands as one of the most inspiring events in human history. What is often forgotten in these discussions was some of the amazing social gains that were implemented as a result of the october revolution, from increased rights for woman, increased democratic participation in political life through the soviets, workplace democracy etc. I'd also make the argument that all of our lives have being made better because of the fact that the October Revolution happened - it's international impact strengthened a lot of the working class movements in first-world countries leading to lots of concessions being made by the capitalist class while improving the livelihood of workers, and a lot of communist parties internationally played a incredible role in leading those struggles to win those gains (although they eventually fell to stalinisation), and that was simply because the immediate impact of the revolution had the capitalist class shitscared because they were concerned about potential revolutions occurring in Germany and Italy (which sadly did not end up happening) and over 100-years the October Revolution still serves as a key inspiration for a lot of revolutionary movements in the third world, what their successes and failures being a matter of debate.
Ultimately what followed after the October Revolution was a tragic shadow of what was originally promised, but I still stand that the initial events from 1919-1921 are incredibly inspiring and demonstrates that a another world is possible. The fact that a lot of what the Russian Revolution was achieved in a underdeveloped third-world country is even more amazing in my opinion.
Discourse Collective is excellent, though I'm more into the culture and current events episodes than the theory ones.
Also a really good recent article on the Russian Revolution is this article by Paul Le Blanc http://links.org.au/russian-revolutions-1917-paul-le-blanc which I think gives a really good summary of the events in 1917 with some solid political analysis.
I also recommend China Melville "October Revolution" which manages to be a very exciting and literary historical take on the events and something that would be a great source for a October Revolution HBO series!
I also recommend China Melville "October Revolution" which manages to be a very exciting and literary historical take on the events and something that would be a great source for a October Revolution HBO series!
Lafiel what's your opinion of the Australian Labor Party? I haven't heard much on them either way from a leftist.
I think they are pretty much the equivalent to the democrats in the US and play a destructive role in the union movement. The 1980s is where they basically sold out to neoliberalism with the signing of the prices-income accord which was basically a neoliberal labor reform that attempted to balance the interests of both businesses and workers but had a huge impact on weakening the power of trade unions (which still impacts on them today), before then they at least had the pretension of being a social democrat party and during the 1970s had Whitlam as their leader, who at the very least implemented a lot of progressive reforms like free education, free health, advances for aboriginal rights etc before being ousted before he could finish his term. Of course a lot of that was because we had very strong social movements in the 1970s, but that said I don't see our current ALP coming close to do anything Whitlam had achieved, even if we had a huge surge in radicalisation tomorrow.
can not wait for the the voat screen caps of how reset is gonna gulag all the 4chaners
I will only gulag the nazis
What's a tankie?
Also I just wanna say I support socialism and come from a somewhat socialist country, subscribed.
Strictly speaking its anyone who's apologetic for the humanitarian crimes committed under Stalin, generally its people who make excuses about human rights abuses by socialist or communist governments. At least for me "pressure from the imperialist US just forced those guys to open secret prisons where they torture journalists" doesn't really fly
Are tankies a serious group in the modern world? Are they common in socialism circles?
Thats more than what neoliberalists do honestly. They talk about all the poverty neoliberalism has erased without talking about the multiple countries were capitalism has "failed". And I put failed in quotes because capitalism is in itself a failure for those who believe in humanism, equality and compassion.
They're mostly just annoying online, they don't represent any serious political influence I don't think
Beautiful. Was there one of these on the old site? I stopped posting there (different name) due to the Hillary-mania and Russia-hysteria. But I certainly remember comrade sphagnum.
Comrades!
Comrades!
Sphagnum created one there (in the old site) for the Far left in general, but they prohibeted and locked the thread.
I dont remember the exactly words, i think sphagnum can talk better about this. Either way its better to let those thing of that forum in the past.
Something to the effect of we don't allow communities around one type of political thought or ideology to form here.
Huh. I think I get what they're going for, but it's pretty silly to pretend that doesn't happen regardless. Sounds like pure ideology to me!
Luckily, the flavors and communities of socialist thought are vast and diverse, right? Leftist are famous for our infighting and bickering, after all.
In any case, here's hoping this particular community lives and grows.
Nice to see an OT for this! Subscribed. I want to learn more about it.
BTW, what do you guys think about Khrushchev's speech about the Fallacies of the Cult of Personality, where he criticized Stalin? I think it was a nice start of his rule, along with the liberalization of Russia, but it ended up feeling slightly empty when he failed to do necessary reforms to prevent further economical problems of the country.
BTW, what do you guys think about Khrushchev's speech about the Fallacies of the Cult of Personality, where he criticized Stalin? I think it was a nice start of his rule, along with the liberalization of Russia, but it ended up feeling slightly empty when he failed to do necessary reforms to prevent further economical problems of the country.
OP
OP
It absolutely wàs during the NEP - I mean, Lenin even said so. It's hard for me to see how the Stalin era could be considered state capitalist when the standard process of capital accumulation had been tossed out and they were running fully on material balancing (I like Trotskys "degenerated workers state" but that also would imply it was a full workers state before he got expelled), but maybe the later eras could be described that way. It's kind of a fuzzy term.
I'll have to take care of that at some point. I just wish the old thread was still up to copy/paste.
It's only socialist in orientation if it is meant as part of a larger goal looking to collectivize ownership of the MOP. That said, it's still of interest to socialists to discuss.
This is correct.
It was both the right thing to do and also a massive power move to outflank Malenkov. His intentions weren't exactly pure but it got the country on the right track.
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