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Socialism |OT| The Dawn of a Red Era

What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%

  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%

  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%

  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%

  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%

  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%
  • Total voters
    1,043
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Banglish

Banglish

Banned
Dec 16, 2017
171
Kilrogg said:
Wait wait wait. You're saying the thing you posted is from Democracy Now?
1) I can't find it on their channel
2) If it truly is...That' is what counts as an alt-right channel now? WAT
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1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SemNT372CIw&t=1300s
2) I don't even know what to say right now. I don't know why it is controversial to call Biden dangerous (or even as as dangerous as Trump). Of course Trump is fucking dangerous - we all know and are dealing with that.Trump invading countries killing people, finger shake. Oh but Biden doing the exact same thing years before, "you crazy alt-righter". Unbelievable. Biden's a fucking war monger. Why are people so okay with that? It's like, "oh as long as we engage in proxy wars that we don't have to hear about in the news - we're fine with this administration!" Whatever helps people sleep at night has never rung more true for me than right now.
 
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Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
Banglish said:
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SemNT372CIw&t=1300s
2) I don't even know what to say right now. I don't know why it is controversial to call Biden dangerous (or even as as dangerous as Trump). Of course Trump is fucking dangerous - we all know and are dealing with that.Trump invading countries killing people, finger shake. Oh but Biden doing the exact same thing years before, "you crazy alt-righter". Unbelievable. Biden's a fucking war monger. Why are people so okay with that? It's like, "oh as long as we engage in proxy wars that we don't have to hear about in the news - we're fine with this administration!" Whatever helps people sleep at night has never rung more true for me than right now.
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Many liberals don't care as long as their team is winning.

83304961_1095350584134113_5112650235033681920_n.jpg
 
Delphine

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
Banglish said:
I just posted a thread about Biden and his foreign policy decisions in the early 2000's in the main section. Now I'm being called an alt-right crazy. I have no idea how the fuck this happened. I'm in actual disbelief right now. I didn't even get a chance to say anything other than what was in OP. This board is stupidly ruthless. What I wrote is being 100% twisted and the context is being misunderstood.

"Do not post alt right propaganda sources"
Same video is from "Democracy now" yt channel, so what the fuck?

www.resetera.com

Worth The Price? Joe Biden and the Launch of the Iraq War

Anyone seen this? I wan't old enough at the time to really know who Joe Biden was during the early 2000's but watching this, you realize that Biden is just as dangerous as Trump in the whitehouse. I had a totally different outlook of him (I think like most people did during Obama's...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

Do I sound like some sort of crazy alt-right? Fucking hell..
Why is it shocking to people for me to say "I feel Biden/Trump/Hilary/Bloomberg all represent the same class".
Trump is fucking horrible. Putting a bandaid on the problem like Biden? He's more of the same just painted blue.
I just wanna say fuck the main page again for shutting down the thread not letting me reply or any dialogue to be built. Can't have that anymore for some reason. Anyways go Bernie.
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We apologize for this mistake. Here is the official staff post about this issue:

Poodlestrike said:
Official Staff Communication
Well, this was our bad. While we try to be thorough, our research was not sufficient enough in this instance. The thread will remain locked, as discussion of it really belongs in the Primary OT, but still - it shouldn't have been labeled as alt-right. That's our mistake, and we'll make sure it doesn't happen again in the future.
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I'm sincerely sorry for the hurt and distress caused by our mistake, this was truly our bad, there was a lapse in our judgement here, we failed to assess the video properly, and we take responsibility for that. Please know that we genuinely try our best to moderate this forum, but this time we failed and we're sorry.
 
Banglish

Banglish

Banned
Dec 16, 2017
171
Mekanos said:
Many liberals don't care as long as their team is winning.
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I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
Delphine said:
We apologize for this mistake. Here is the official staff post about this issue:

I'm sincerely sorry for the hurt and distress caused by our mistake, this was truly our bad, there was a lapse in our judgement here, we failed to assess the video properly, and we take responsibility for that. Please know that we genuinely try our best to moderate this forum, but this time we failed and we're sorry.
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I understand and appreciate the apology. The one thing that is concerning is how fast participants in that thread were to place me as an alt-right account. Republicans are dangerous but I don't feel safe among Liberals/Democrats anymore.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Banglish said:
I understand and appreciate the apology. The one thing that is concerning is how fast participants in that thread were to place me as an alt-right account. Republicans are dangerous but I don't feel safe among Liberals/Democrats anymore.
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Nor should you honestly. The burden of care placed on people on the left to argue their case is disproportionate relative to the amount of care needed to pass the threshold of acceptability in arguing for an insensitive or grotesque status quo.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
American Liberals are not used to people who are to the left of them. Just tell them Obama is a war criminal and see how they react but will condemn Bush starting the Iraq War.
 
farmland

farmland

Member
Oct 30, 2017
619
I feel like arguing with liberals from the US about healthcare is like banging my head against a brick wall.

1 - Universal healthcare exist's in many poorer countries, there's no material reason why the US couldn't do it.
2 - Studies show that it will save by some estimates over 60,000 lives a year and hundreds of billions a year. This is backed up by the lower cost of health care in other countries with universal systems as well as better or comparable healthcare outcomes.
3 - The fact that liberals can't seemingly accept these above facts tells us something about them and the fact that they seem to have imbibed an almost metaphysical view of having markets within the healthcare system.
4 - It's very naive to assume that a dual system will be stable over time. Right wing people will starve the public option of funds (or at least freeze them) and use the lack of care to push private health insurance. This seems like a relatively easy prediction based on how the capitalist political economy works. So it's seems obvious to me that dismantling the private system is the obvious way to go barring more radical changes to the economy.

On point 4 I can attest to this from an Australia perspective, I took part of (in a small way) the efforts to stop the liberal government under Tony Abbott's attempt to apply co-payments (to supposedly make the system sustainable) to visits to general practitioners and for certain imaging at hospitals etc. We were successful but they'll try again in various ways.
 
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Banglish

Banglish

Banned
Dec 16, 2017
171
Mekanos said:
American Liberals are not used to people who are to the left of them. Just tell them Obama is a war criminal and see how they react but will condemn Bush starting the Iraq War.
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I've never had that conversation but I'd be interested in having it. My sister was dating a guy from Colorado a while back. Seemed progressive enough but when I gave him my views that went against Hillary, we started speaking progressively louder over each other. The American War Machine is something to behold. Transcends party lines.

umop 3pisdn said:
Nor should you honestly. The burden of care placed on people on the left to argue their case is disproportionate relative to the amount of care needed to pass the threshold of acceptability in arguing for an insensitive or grotesque status quo.
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I thought the older I got the more I would share "general sensitivities" to life with most people. But it seems I'm more of a minority than I actually am.

Televator said:
I think an OT full of socialists/anarchists can certainly accommodate these emotions. 😉
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It's good to have a home. I've believed in socialist ideals for a while but I guess this was a "shake" I've needed.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
Banglish said:
I've never had that conversation but I'd be interested in having it. My sister was dating a guy from Colorado a while back. Seemed progressive enough but when I gave him my views that went against Hillary, we started speaking progressively louder over each other. The American War Machine is something to behold. Transcends party lines.
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I wrote this post touching on this earlier, but communist figureheads like Fidel Castro are vilified while politicians that act in the interest of neoliberalism like Obama are allowed to be complicated, regardless of the human rights violations of either.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
So with all of Italy in lockdown wouldn't this be a great time to elect a President fighting for universal health care?

America?

Hello...?
 
IpKaiFung

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,355
Wales
I just feel far too many people call themselves progressive simply because they don't vote for the deemed "right wing" party.

In the UK, there is such a heavy bias towards liberalism and western imperialism, that having a different view will get you steam rolled by the billionaire owned press.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,127
IpKaiFung said:
I just feel far too many people call themselves progressive simply because they don't vote for the deemed "right wing" party.

In the UK, there is such a heavy bias towards liberalism and western imperialism, that having a different view will get you steam rolled by the billionaire owned press.
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It's weird, because even as a liberal, I found the Democratic party too conservative. Like, I voted them, but I always wished they were more left-wing. In high school I researched the Scandinavian countries and I always thought "sounds great, let's do that," so that was always my view of "liberalism," that we should tax fairly and have a welfare state. The idea that people could be opposed to a welfare state and call themselves liberals never occurred to me.
 

Deleted member 82

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,626
Elizabeth Warren is a coward and/or a grifter and/or incompetent and/or a career politician. Not that these are necessarily mutually exclusive.

I'd even prefer it if she'd endorsed Biden instead of trying to have her cake and fuck it too by not taking a side this late into the race. At least have the spine to plainly show us where you stand before any of this loses any sort of impact. Nobody buys your attempt at plausible deniability.

You don't stand for progressive ideals, and you certainly don't stand for the people. Posturing bullshit. Fuck her.
 
zero_suit

zero_suit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,569
Kilrogg said:
Elizabeth Warren is a coward and/or a grifter and/or incompetent and/or a career politician. Not that these are necessarily mutually exclusive.

I'd even prefer it if she'd endorsed Biden instead of trying to have her cake and fuck it too by not taking a side this late into the race. At least have the spine to plainly show us where you stand before any of this loses any sort of impact. Nobody buys your attempt at plausible deniability.

You don't stand for progressive ideals, and you certainly don't stand for the people. Posturing bullshit. Fuck her.
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Warren probably won't endorse anyone at this point.
 

Deleted member 50540

Banned
Dec 6, 2018
574
Don't post often, but is it weird that I feel like I got over Biden's inevitability fairly quickly? I think I justify it to myself because in Chicago the DSA has been having success, so it's not like the movement is dying entirely. Then there are individuals running for lower offices that are still trying to pick up the mantle. It still of course sucks since now we are going back to Obama era feel good immigration and foreign policy, the future electoral blowback seems inevitable, and having to hope startups and company's will not blowup the environment faster. But this still seems like the healthiest the leftist movement in America has seemed (in my admittedly limited perspective) in a while.

Idk maybe this is me trying to not fall in to total existential dread
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
Massimoman64 said:
Don't post often, but is it weird that I feel like I got over Biden's inevitability fairly quickly? I think I justify it to myself because in Chicago the DSA has been having success, so it's not like the movement is dying entirely. Then there are individuals running for lower offices that are still trying to pick up the mantle. It still of course sucks since now we are going back to Obama era feel good immigration and foreign policy, the future electoral blowback seems inevitable, and having to hope startups and company's will not blowup the environment faster. But this still seems like the healthiest the leftist movement in America has seemed (in my admittedly limited perspective) in a while.

Idk maybe this is me trying to not fall in to total existential dread
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I agree, I think the leftist movement is healthy. I think it's obvious that we're benefiting from the generations most opposed to socialism aging and dying out (thank god!). Among millennials and zoomers there's not the same stigmas, and those generations are increasingly victimized by rampant capitalism. Biden's win isn't the end for us by any means; if he wins the presidency it just ensures massive electoral blowback in 2022 and 2024, which liberals will blame entirely on race somehow, but we'll keep fighting and keep gaining ground as inequality and climate change put more pressure on Americans.
 
Elliot Pudge

Elliot Pudge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
I'm mildly embarrassed to admit that socialism and Marxism weren't even on my radar until last year when I played Disco Elysium and now I have been slowly consuming the material in the OP. Anyways I have nothing insightful to contribute just felt like talking out loud before I go back to silently lurking.
 

Deleted member 50540

Banned
Dec 6, 2018
574
Ellen Pudge said:
I'm mildly embarrassed to admit that socialism and Marxism weren't even on my radar until last year when I played Disco Elysium and now I have been slowly consuming the material in the OP. Anyways I have nothing insightful to contribute just felt like talking out loud before I go back to silently lurking.
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I wouldn't worry too much about how you got into it, hell I am sure the Disco Elysium people knew the game would be an entry point to a lot of people. As a fellow predominately lurking member I welcome you into your lurking! Amazing username too
 
Blue Skies

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
Kilrogg said:
Elizabeth Warren is a coward and/or a grifter and/or incompetent and/or a career politician. Not that these are necessarily mutually exclusive.

I'd even prefer it if she'd endorsed Biden instead of trying to have her cake and fuck it too by not taking a side this late into the race. At least have the spine to plainly show us where you stand before any of this loses any sort of impact. Nobody buys your attempt at plausible deniability.

You don't stand for progressive ideals, and you certainly don't stand for the people. Posturing bullshit. Fuck her.
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Carreer politician?

Do you know a single thing about her?
 
Equippedwithtowel

Equippedwithtowel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
warren came to the game late but she has been playing it

i don't know how people can deny that especially since for biden supporters its not supposed to be a bad thing?
 
Equippedwithtowel

Equippedwithtowel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
she has always been someone who thinks that capitalism can be saved by making the banks rip people off less which is a bad joke

if you were an adult during the Reagan years and didn't run screaming away from the republican party you will always be sus to me

it demonstrates a lack of perception and integrity that leading the CFPB can't counteract because they're ultimately separate issues
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Added that Manifesto and the Principles of Communism to the OP which, surprisingly, I hadn't included.
 
Shy

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Speaking of Disco Elysium. There's a podcast dedicated to talking about it. (only listened to a wee bit of the first ep, so can't speak for overall quality)

Savoir Faire: A Disco Elysium Podcast (@SupercultureRev) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from Savoir Faire: A Disco Elysium Podcast (@SupercultureRev). In-depth critical analysis of under-observed videogames. Currently - Savoir Faire: A Disco Elysium Podcast. Part of @superculturenet
twitter.com twitter.com

For some kind of reason i can't embed it.
 
Sibylus

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Ellen Pudge said:
I'm mildly embarrassed to admit that socialism and Marxism weren't even on my radar until last year when I played Disco Elysium and now I have been slowly consuming the material in the OP. Anyways I have nothing insightful to contribute just felt like talking out loud before I go back to silently lurking.
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Welcome! I remember you from ye olde dotagaf days.
 
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