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What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,043

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
spear shall be shaken, shield shall be splintered,
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin and the world's ending!
Death!
Death!
Death!

I see we lost brainchild, RIP
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
spear shall be shaken, shield shall be splintered,
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin and the world's ending!
Death!
Death!
Death!

I see we lost brainchild, RIP
I come back to you now, at the turn of the tide.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I already asked most of those questions internally but having an external list is handy for disseminating propaganda reaching new people.
 
Mar 31, 2018
616
I'm a European, so I can't vote in the next presidential election, but I welcome Bernie Sanders as president. Sadly, the odds are slim: I think it's very likely the establishment will sabotage him.

Sanders would promote diplomatic relations with other countries in a good sense. The previous presidents more or less regarded the United States as superior and other countries as subordinate: every country must conform to them or they are their enemy. Because of the ridiculous geopolitical interests of the United States, unnecessarily many enemies have been made. Bernie Sanders would not strive for even more geopolitical power, but would instead strive for good cooperation with other countries. He would not threaten war if other countries did not keep to their agreement, but would instead act diplomatically as equal partners.

There is a great need for social democratic governance in the United States. The local population has never known such a government and it would bring crucial changes. It is unacceptable that the United States is the only industrialized country that has no social security. One has to pay $2,500 for an ambulance or $32,000 to give birth to a child? This is crazy.

What's more, a social democratic government would have a better reputation: now all social measures are being cracked down on by American neo-liberal propaganda. There is a lack of nuance about what socialism is: in the United States (from what I have seen) it is almost equated with National Socialism. Yes, I know there are mistakes in the governance of self-proclaimed communist states like China and the USSR. There are also violent dictators in power there who are responsible for mass murders. That tells more about the (bad) leaders than the system, and that's no good reason to be hostile to any measure that takes the social aspect into account. American historians are forced to make a distorted version of history public, in the service of American patriotism. Critical thinking or nuance are not allowed: everything must be black and white. Critical people all know that the system of self-proclaimed communist countries such as the USSR and China is not comparable to the ideals of Karl Marx. Marx's proposals tended more towards, among other things, a full labour self-government without superior power and thus no (dictatorial) leader.


I could write a whole book, but I'm quitting for today
 

Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406



Seeing these two tweets back to back was too funny.


lol

Every time I see the Chris Matthews comment I can't help but think of the antifa supersoldiers tweet.

5phxqd6hax9ycwetjptwld4vn0ituly6wdfvo7ibraf1def2unpitvotx8ahxamt.jpg
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,121
Between the Irish election and Parasite winning Best Picture...I'm feeling optimistic. 2020 is gonna be our year.
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
heh, this was really interesting - I don't know if it's a ploy how the journalist is oscillating between seemingly believing in Sanders then just to get pulled back "to reality" by third wayism or if the writing process actually looked this way - nomatter, it's a hilarious read:

www.politico.com

Is It Bernie’s Party Now?

The ultimate outsider took over a splintered party from within. Sound familiar?

The best part is the juxtaposition of the description of Agnew's event and Bennett's warning how you "Be careful. "The danger of covering movement candidates is that as a human being, you and all your journalistic colleagues, it is impossible to remain immune from the sense that these people are really on to something."

"...
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
I hope it's going to be Bernie versus Bloomberg, then it's fully mask off for the Democratic party and the veil of ignorance will be lifted for at least part of the working poor Dems...
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
I looked at the tweeter's profile and saw the retweet of this gem from 2016 - without an understanding of dialectical materialism this must be very confusing for any liberal who attempts to take a step back and take stock:



About the bold underlined, how would you best describe this in layman's terms? I tried reading about it more in-depth yesterday, but maybe because it was late and I was tired, the penny didn't want to drop.

Am I right to grossly simplify it as people's convictions regarding the materialist world is subjected to change, slowly evolving, based on the current socioeconomic condition? Meaning stuff like "socialism won't work because people are inherently greedy" is a false equivalency because said people are greedy because they're products of this greedy time?

I have no idea how to properly interpret this.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
About the bold underlined, how would you best describe this in layman's terms? I tried reading about it more in-depth yesterday, but maybe because it was late and I was tired, the penny didn't want to drop.

Am I right to grossly simplify it as people's convictions regarding the materialist world is subjected to change, slowly evolving, based on the current socioeconomic condition? Meaning stuff like "socialism won't work because people are inherently greedy" is a false equivalency because said people are greedy because they're products of this greedy time?

I have no idea how to properly interpret this.

Dialectical materialism is actually pretty simple to explain in non-Marxy language. Basically, at its core, the thing that shapes society isn't ideas and ideology, but the economy. Money, the way that money is handled and distributed, the way that production is organized, etc. Beliefs, ideologies, etc. all develop on top of that, because who wields power and who doesn't wield power (classes) over the production and distribution of stuff is the ultimate source (to boil this down to a very simplistic explanation) of societal beliefs.

For example, in the Middle Ages, aristocrats and kings owned the land. This necessitated a belief in the divine right of kings and the great chain of being. In the early modern period, the colonial Europeans enslaved Africans. This necessitated the emergence of racism to justify it. In the present period, the bourgeoisie owns everything. This necessitates liberalism, a belief in limited government that can't infringe on individual's rights to private property too much.

Now, the thing is, the existence of haves and have nots leads to conflict. There are contradictions in any given economic system, like this battle between the classes, and eventually the contradictions can pile up and lead to class war. There will inevitably be struggle between those who wish to give one class power and those who defend the class structure status quo. This struggle between the classes, between one force and its opposite, can ultimately bring about a new system.

What we see here in the Bloomberg situation is that people who may be very well intentioned when it comes to certain issues don't have a full grasp of the intersection of class with every other issue, despite their belief that they are "intersectional". They believe in capitalism, in the market system of production and private control over it, which underlies everything else, and so whether they are aware of it or not, they will betray everything else in an effort to retain capitalism.
 
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3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
Dialectical materialism is actually pretty simple to explain in non-Marxy language. Basically, at its core, the thing that shapes society isn't ideas and ideology, but the economy. Money, the way that money is handled and distributed, the way that production is organized, etc. Beliefs, ideologies, etc. all develop on top of that, because who wields power and who doesn't wield power (classes) over the production and distribution of stuff is the ultimate source (to boil this down to a very simplistic explanation) of societal beliefs.

For example, in the Middle Aves, aristocrats and kings owned the land. This necessitated a belief in the divine right of kings and the great chain of being. In the early modern period, the colonial Europeans enslaved Africans. This necessitated the emergence of racism to justify it. In the present period, the bourgeoisie owns everything. This necessitates liberalism, a belief in limited government that can't infringe on individual's rights to private property too much.

Now, the thing is, the existence of haves and have nots leads to conflict. There are contradictions in any given economic system, like this battle between the classes, and eventually the contradictions can pile up and lead to class war. There will inevitably be struggle between those who wish to give one class power and those who defend the class structure status quo. This struggle between the classes, between one force and its opposite, can ultimately bring about a new system.

What we see here in the Bloomberg situation is that people who may be very well intentioned when it comes to certain issues don't have a full grasp of the intersection of class with every other issue, despite their belief that they are "intersectional". They believe in capitalism, in the market system of production and private control over it, which underlies everything else, and so whether they are aware of it or not, they will betray everything else in an effort to retain capitalism.

A crystal clear and excellent summary of such a complicated (and at the same time easy to understand) subject. Thank you very much, comrade!
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
Dialectical materialism is actually pretty simple to explain in non-Marxy language. Basically, at its core, the thing that shapes society isn't ideas and ideology, but the economy. Money, the way that money is handled and distributed, the way that production is organized, etc. Beliefs, ideologies, etc. all develop on top of that, because who wields power and who doesn't wield power (classes) over the production and distribution of stuff is the ultimate source (to boil this down to a very simplistic explanation) of societal beliefs.

For example, in the Middle Ages, aristocrats and kings owned the land. This necessitated a belief in the divine right of kings and the great chain of being. In the early modern period, the colonial Europeans enslaved Africans. This necessitated the emergence of racism to justify it. In the present period, the bourgeoisie owns everything. This necessitates liberalism, a belief in limited government that can't infringe on individual's rights to private property too much.

Now, the thing is, the existence of haves and have nots leads to conflict. There are contradictions in any given economic system, like this battle between the classes, and eventually the contradictions can pile up and lead to class war. There will inevitably be struggle between those who wish to give one class power and those who defend the class structure status quo. This struggle between the classes, between one force and its opposite, can ultimately bring about a new system.

What we see here in the Bloomberg situation is that people who may be very well intentioned when it comes to certain issues don't have a full grasp of the intersection of class with every other issue, despite their belief that they are "intersectional". They believe in capitalism, in the market system of production and private control over it, which underlies everything else, and so whether they are aware of it or not, they will betray everything else in an effort to retain capitalism.

You did a much better job than I could dream of, I was about to start with "Well you know when Bernie says 'All Power to the DNC!'"?
 

SMACK DADDY

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
4
User banned (permanent): troll account
I smell vulgar economism in this thread...

I know you were just simplifying, it's ok. Although I think the late pigeon, pbuh, would be pretty mad if you tried to tell him economics were the "source" of white supremacy, for instance.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
I smell vulgar economism in this thread...

I know you were just simplifying, it's ok. Although I think the late pigeon, pbuh, would be pretty mad if you tried to tell him economics were the "source" of white supremacy, for instance.

I had an argument/discussion recently with some people on discord about just this issue and it was not exactly a fruitful endeavor.