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What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 125 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.6%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 423 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 238 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,043

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
You cant look at the metropole without looking at the colony. The exploitation of work and environment can be made in another country, the difference between a social democracy and a full liberal state, its that one wants better condition to its own people, while they explore other countries, and liberals dont care to explore even then workers of their own country.
About allocation the world produces more food than its needed in the world, yet people die of starvation, so its not that efficient in allocation. Its a capitalist genocide in favor of economy.

But Bolshevism also had mass famines (the ones that weren't engineered deliberately to target recalcitrant peasant populations). Although a lot of work and study has been done on famines even in the last 15 years and the instances of famine have been reduced except in cases where armed conflict is the source of disruption (as in Yemen currently). Stuff like the Malawi famine of the early 00's was studied extensively because it wasn't the case that there was even insufficient food being produced domestically. Something bizarre happened in the market and a bunch of people starved, but the peculiar conditions were learned and lessons applied.

Exporting exploitation is definitely the biggest issue of globalization, because it allows the owner class to roll back advances in advanced economies by threatening shutdown of operations to outsource, and then exploiting the places they outsource to. However it just means that the fight for fairness needs to be brought to other places. That's what stuff like Fair Trade is all about. There is still genuinely a lower cost of production in the Global South even if you're not being "unfair," however, so that pressure for outsourcing will still exist (until the other economies advance enough to be converged with developed economies).
 

Deleted member 721

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But Bolshevism also had mass famines (the ones that weren't engineered deliberately to target recalcitrant peasant populations). Although a lot of work and study has been done on famines even in the last 15 years and the instances of famine have been reduced except in cases where armed conflict is the source of disruption (as in Yemen currently). Stuff like the Malawi famine of the early 00's was studied extensively because it wasn't the case that there was even insufficient food being produced domestically. Something bizarre happened in the market and a bunch of people starved, but the peculiar conditions were learned and lessons applied.

Exporting exploitation is definitely the biggest issue of globalization, because it allows the owner class to roll back advances in advanced economies by threatening shutdown of operations to outsource, and then exploiting the places they outsource to. However it just means that the fight for fairness needs to be brought to other places. That's what stuff like Fair Trade is all about. There is still genuinely a lower cost of production in the Global South even if you're not being "unfair," however, so that pressure for outsourcing will still exist (until the other economies advance enough to be converged with developed economies).
I didnt Said It didnt happened. The problem is that you need to pay for something essential, some food should be acessible for everyone in every country for Free, there's food for this, but there's no profit from It. Also land reform, the property is in the hands of few in most countries and especialy in the poor ones, where the rich Export food, but they dont sell in their country.

There's no normal low coust, two people of same qualification, one in the south and another in the North, the sotherner Will be paid less because there's less oportunity, and more poverty, and lots of people." Dont want a Job, ok there's 1000 people that Will accept for this salary" this is the mentality, big international companies pay less for the same job and same qualification in latin America or asia than Europe or US. Fair trade Will not solve the problem only will reduce It a little, the condition of the workers Will be the same.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Theres also an appeal to the "secret knowledge that the bourgeoisie doesn't want you to know!"

But look at the background of most arch Stalinists now days. Most of them are children of bourgeois families or intelligentsia, young kids in college who have never held a job. Overwhelmingly white.

And then sometimes people just legitimately agree with his policies like Socialism in One Country.

That's because people keep doing what I keep complaining about in this thread. Socialism is not managed Capitalism, welfarism, etc.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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I'm not sure how those things conflict necessarily.

Socialism is the movement of the Working Class.

Young non working bourgeois intelligentsia are not Working Class.

There's a reason why Stalinists, those who admit they are Stalinsts and those who don't or don't konw, speak of the Working Class in an "Us" and "Them" context.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Socialism is the movement of the Working Class.

Young non working bourgeois intelligentsia are not Working Class.

There's a reason why Stalinists, those who admit they are Stalinsts and those who don't or don't konw, speak of the Working Class in an "Us" and "Them" context.

Oh, I get what you were going for then. I thought you were saying that there was something inherently contradictory about being from a privileged stratum and believing that traditional history is too bourgeois to trust.
 

corn93

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
158
Socialism is the movement of the Working Class.

Young non working bourgeois intelligentsia are not Working Class.

There's a reason why Stalinists, those who admit they are Stalinsts and those who don't or don't konw, speak of the Working Class in an "Us" and "Them" context.

Theoretically, couldn't Bill Gates children (who are not and never will be working class, unless they give up all their inherited wealth) be Socialists? Or what would you label them if they fully supported Socialist policy and the move towards a Socialist society?
 

Deleted member 721

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Theoretically, couldn't Bill Gates children (who are not and never will be working class, unless they give up all their inherited wealth) be Socialists? Or what would you label them if they fully supported Socialist policy and the move towards a Socialist society?
Engels was part of the burgeoise and intelligentsia but he made a lot for the communist history. Its not because a person is from the burgeoise he cant do more to the class, than a worker class person.
I would consider the person a communist/socialist even If he's from the burgeoise, its the Idea that we share that turn us into commies. But surely the movement isnt about the burgeoise or their rebels but the working class.
 

Neato

Member
Nov 17, 2017
29
Damn just missed it? Looking forward to the next time when a hardcore MLM shows up and calls me a liberal or crypto-fascist because i refuse to agree that "Stalin lookin like a snack"
 

House_Of_Lightning

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House explain this a little better, i didnt understand.
I understand that socialism isnt a identity but an ideology, but you have people that identify themselves on It and this becomes part of their identity.

Or you disagree?




Socialism isn't an ideology and isn't an object of consumption (people identify themselves on what they consume), nor is it a fetish. Marx's writings depict the way of life, its reproduction, the classes within life, and significant changes in the mode of productions as events of a natural phenomena. It's not something that people merely need to believe in. It isn't a religion or a church.

The significance isn't your belief but your relation to capital. Proletarian, Petite Bourgeois, or Capitalist and whether you are progressive or reactionary within your own class.

The bourgeois revolutions that overthrew feudalism didn't happen because enough people identified with "bourgeoisie-ism". It was the democratic action of a class of people who were brought together based on their class, class interests, and class conditions, not because they all had a formal and defined set of ideals.

When most people "identify" as a Socialist, the "identify" with Leftist values (but not Socialism). Which are fine, to a degree. Worker and minority rights, redistribution, etc. Those are amiable qualities. But "believing" that what you are doing is helping the working class has little significant meaning. How many Right Wingers do you know who sincerely believe that trickle down economics will ultimately benefit the working class? Just because you or I know that trickle down is a lie doesn't matter because Objective Truth is incompatible with ideology. Socialism is incompatible with Idealism.
 

Deleted member 721

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You have an interesting PoV, i agree in some points, but in some i disagree.

The Notion of ideology as something related to dogmatism is a false definition. Socialism isnt a religion, but i disagree that isnt an ideology, to have ideas isnt necessarly to be only an idealist, socialism is about ideas and pragmatism, and in this i agree that If you dont turn this in reality you are not being a socialist. But the relation of ideas and praxis is what socialism is.

The difference between the bolshevik revolution and the french revolution is the socialism ideology, and class conscious. If you dont have those, the people Will do only a burgeoise revolution like the french.

A worker that doesnt have class conscious isnt a socialist.

And i disagree on the reduced notion that only the proletariat is exclusively the revolutionary group, i think anyone that wants socialist society and works for that is part of the revolutionary group. But surely you Will find Small ammount of people on the burgeoise that works for the revolution and a bunch that are simple idealists or just reformists.

I have to think more in this contradiction the "socialist burgeoise". But the rest its what i think.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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You have an interesting PoV, i agree in some points, but in some i disagree.

The Notion of ideology as something related to dogmatism is a false definition. Socialism isnt a religion, but i disagree that isnt an ideology, to have ideas isnt necessarly to be only an idealist, socialism is about ideas and pragmatism, and in this i agree that If you dont turn this in reality you are not being a socialist. But the relation of ideas and praxis is what socialism is.

The difference between the bolshevik revolution and the french revolution is the socialism ideology, and class conscious. If you dont have those, the people Will do only a burgeoise revolution like the french.

Socialism is an epoch, mode of production, a state of being of society. Our ideas of what Socialism may be do not matter, as the idea of "capitalism" and it's implementation have changed dramatically over the centuries. Socialism can only do the same. Ideology and Praxis are not compatible.

The "Bolshevik Revolution" is a misnomer. The Bolshevik's came to power in the Revolution, but they were not the catalyst. The only thing that the revolutionary elements of the October Revolution had in common was that they were proletarian. The "Socialist Ideology" was not the cause of the Revolution but the class, class conditions, and class interest. The "Real Movement", or praxis, of Socialism is the abolishment of Capital through class, class conditions, and class interest of the proletariat. Socialism is a result of these things, an ends we can not predict. Socialism is not an idea or an ideal, the end of history, which we work to implement.


A worker that doesnt have class conscious isnt a socialist.

The proletariat knows that they are the proletariat and to lecture them on their own class is a serious error.



And i disagree on the reduced notion that only the proletariat is exclusively the revolutionary group

Any group with any goal in mind can be Revolutionary. But there are political revolutions where you replace one politician with another, and then there are social and cultural revolutions where society itself is destroyed and replaced with another.
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
Dumb question: does Marxism necessarily entail socialism? I understood it to be more of a critical lens with which to view society, but I see a lot of people treating it like it's a political/economic policy in its own right.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

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Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Dumb question: does Marxism necessarily entail socialism? I understood it to be more of a critical lens with which to view society, but I see a lot of people treating it like it's a political/economic policy in its own right.

You're right in your understanding of it - Marxism isn't a specific policy platform or dogmatic ideology, it's an analytical framework by which dialectical and historical materialist lenses are applied to socio-politico-economic events and systems to understand how they operate and where they will go. Marx was convinced that the contradictions of capitalism and the struggle between contending classes would allow the proletariat to overthrow the bourgeoisie, which is sort of the natural outcome of Marxist analysis and why nobody is really a Marxist who doesn't want socialism.

When people think of Marxism as an "ideology" they're usually thinking of Marxism-Leninism and its offshoots, or they just have a bad understanding of it in general.
 

wandering

flâneur
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Oct 25, 2017
2,136
You're right in your understanding of it - Marxism isn't a specific policy platform or dogmatic ideology, it's an analytical framework by which dialectical and historical materialist lenses are applied to socio-politico-economic events and systems to understand how they operate and where they will go. Marx was convinced that the contradictions of capitalism and the struggle between contending classes would allow the proletariat to overthrow the bourgeoisie, which is sort of the natural outcome of Marxist analysis and why nobody is really a Marxist who doesn't want socialism.

When people think of Marxism as an "ideology" they're usually thinking of Marxism-Leninism and its offshoots, or they just have a bad understanding of it in general.

Cool, good to know. My exposure to Marxism comes mostly from an anthropology and media studies background, so it was usually in the context of critical theory and such.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,998
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/dark-victory-in-raqqa

Read this great article yesterday about the Syrian Democratic Forces (who are basically socialists) and they mention that one of the Kurdish leaders was strongly inspired by a guy named Murray Bookchin, who is described as a Libertarian Socialist.. Haven't read up on him much, but isn't that inherently contradictory?

They also mention that some other Kurdish groups have been marginalized during the SDF's rise to power and attempt to create a Kurdish state, with some even being imprisoned or shot. Makes me wonder if the inevitable consequence of a society created through violence is oppression and more violence. The more people you step on on your way to the top, the more enemies you'll have.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,969
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/dark-victory-in-raqqa

Read this great article yesterday about the Syrian Democratic Forces (who are basically socialists) and they mention that one of the Kurdish leaders was strongly inspired by a guy named Murray Bookchin, who is described as a Libertarian Socialist.. Haven't read up on him much, but isn't that inherently contradictory?
Libertarian socialism isn't inherently contradictory, although personally I think its very...unlikely to work the way its proponents want it to work. It merely calls for the abolition of what they perceive as coercive hierarchies in favor of flat(ter) methods of social organization, often revolving around direct democracy and community councils.

I am, shall we say, a skeptic.
 

Sokrates

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Oct 27, 2017
560
Hey, quick question for you guys.

What do you guys think a post capitalist future looks like?

And any recommended articles for me to read? Preferably from the Jacobin.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

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Oct 25, 2017
16,058
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/dark-victory-in-raqqa

Read this great article yesterday about the Syrian Democratic Forces (who are basically socialists) and they mention that one of the Kurdish leaders was strongly inspired by a guy named Murray Bookchin, who is described as a Libertarian Socialist.. Haven't read up on him much, but isn't that inherently contradictory?

They also mention that some other Kurdish groups have been marginalized during the SDF's rise to power and attempt to create a Kurdish state, with some even being imprisoned or shot. Makes me wonder if the inevitable consequence of a society created through violence is oppression and more violence. The more people you step on on your way to the top, the more enemies you'll have.

Libertarian was a leftist word before the right appropriated it, because by seizing power and establishing a broad based democracy workers break down the authoritarian hierarchical structures like businesses or the state that nteap them. That's the idea behind the word at least and why it's still used by anarchists. You can see from there how American hyper capitalists saw "anti-state" and "liberty" in the concept and warped it from there.

Regarding the YPG, it looks like Turkey is claiming the US has promised to stop supporting them, though the US is remaining coy about it. I think we all know it's going to happen eventually even though it will be a disaster for the Syrian Kurds. I feel like Rojava is doomed to go down in history as another celebrated but short lived experiment like the Paris Commune or Catalonia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42118567
 

Lafiel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
311
Melbourne, Australia
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/dark-victory-in-raqqa

Read this great article yesterday about the Syrian Democratic Forces (who are basically socialists) and they mention that one of the Kurdish leaders was strongly inspired by a guy named Murray Bookchin, who is described as a Libertarian Socialist.. Haven't read up on him much, but isn't that inherently contradictory?

They also mention that some other Kurdish groups have been marginalized during the SDF's rise to power and attempt to create a Kurdish state, with some even being imprisoned or shot. Makes me wonder if the inevitable consequence of a society created through violence is oppression and more violence. The more people you step on on your way to the top, the more enemies you'll have.

If you want to read more about the kurds and what's happening in Northern Syria I highly recommend following http://kurdishquestion.com/index.php?splashseen=1/. This is also a interview I did with a australian-kurdish activist who is currently living in Rojava right now https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/interview-rojava-sets-democractic-revolutionary-examplethat's very enlightening. This is also a recent interview I did with a well-known dutch journalist https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/eyewitness-northern-syria’s-feminist-democratic-revolution who recently toured Australia speaking on this subject recently including a seminar I helped with organising.

The book Revolution in Rojava: Democratic Autonomy and Women's Liberation in Syrian Kurdistan is also the most authoritative text on the subject.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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"Libertarian" and "Socialism" as words don't necessarily contradict. Similarly, Socialism requires the concept of "free association", which was also co-opted by the Right for their own aims and goals.

But Murray Bookchin pivoted from Socialism to cooperative Capitalism. Neither he nor the SDF or the Kurds are Socialist.


Hey, quick question for you guys.

What do you guys think a post capitalist future looks like?

And any recommended articles for me to read? Preferably from the Jacobin.

Jacobin doesn't know what Socialism would look like.

As above, "free association", the ability to associate with who and what you want. Complete access to the means of production for all, the ability to live life as a means that doesn't entail economic consequences.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,998
Regarding the YPG, it looks like Turkey is claiming the US has promised to stop supporting them, though the US is remaining coy about it. I think we all know it's going to happen eventually even though it will be a disaster for the Syrian Kurds. I feel like Rojava is doomed to go down in history as another celebrated but short lived experiment like the Paris Commune or Catalonia.

Yeah the article definitely didn't paint a very rosy picture of their future. It seems unlikely that the US would support them over Turkey, but they're also the most moderate element in that part of the world, if there's any hope of a stable, peaceful society, the Kurds have to be part of it.

If you want to read more about the kurds and what's happening in Northern Syria I highly recommend following http://kurdishquestion.com/index.php?splashseen=1/. This is also a interview I did with a australian-kurdish activist who is currently living in Rojava right now https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/interview-rojava-sets-democractic-revolutionary-examplethat's very enlightening. This is also a recent interview I did with a well-known dutch journalist https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/eyewitness-northern-syria's-feminist-democratic-revolution who recently toured Australia speaking on this subject recently including a seminar I helped with organising.

The book Revolution in Rojava: Democratic Autonomy and Women's Liberation in Syrian Kurdistan is also the most authoritative text on the subject.

Thanks I'll check this out! I know way less about the whole conflict than I should, and I find this stuff super interesting.
 

Mezentine

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Oct 25, 2017
9,969
This is also a interview I did with a australian-kurdish activist who is currently living in Rojava right now https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/interview-rojava-sets-democractic-revolutionary-examplethat's very enlightening.

Rojava, on the other hand, encourages democratisation at the local level. What that means in practice is that at the street level we have councils, every couple of streets, you have one council. Then let's imagine in a neighbourhood there's 20 of these small councils, they come together and they have one neighbourhood-level council. Then in a city like Kobane, a rather small city, there's about 14 neighbourhood councils. All the local neighbourhood councils come together and form the city council.
As someone who is skeptical of this exact model I'm very curious to watch exactly how things proceed
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

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Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Hey, quick question for you guys.

What do you guys think a post capitalist future looks like?

And any recommended articles for me to read? Preferably from the Jacobin.

It's difficult to say. Like House_Of_Lightning said, it can't really be predicted and so socialists going all the way back to Marx generally shy away from attempts at guessing. Prior to Marx there were a ton of utopian socialists who came up with wacky ideas about Perfect Societies And How To Operate Them, but you can't pre-plan an entire society. The focus is really on getting to the point where workers control their own lives and then letting it run democratically from there. That's why socialism is a movement and not just Thing In The Future To Be Adjusted To. It's not like Adam Smith could have told you what life would be like under modern capitalism.

That said, you might like this article.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2011/12/four-futures
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,998
Is it valid to expect people who identify as socialist to avoid luxury products and excessive spending? I don't really consider myself a socialist, but I lean hard to the left and have a lot of disdain for consumerism. I know people always post that comic in response to people who give leftists shit for posting from an iPhone or whatever, but I feel like it makes sense on a certain level to avoid supporting a broken system more than you have to. Would you criticize someone for driving a BMW for instance, when they could get a used Toyota?
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

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Oct 25, 2017
16,058
There's elections today in Cuba today Will change the president. Raul Will retire

I thought that was next year? Either way IIRC Diaz-Canel is expected to take over right? Pretty much a hard line party man.

There is an election going on in Nepal today actually, where the CPNUML and Maoists are still pretty strong. I haven't really read up on how legit they are in ages though. Seems like Kasama Project was the only site that focused on them.
 

Deleted member 721

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Is it valid to expect people who identify as socialist to avoid luxury products and excessive spending? I don't really consider myself a socialist, but I lean hard to the left and have a lot of disdain for consumerism. I know people always post that comic in response to people who give leftists shit for posting from an iPhone or whatever, but I feel like it makes sense on a certain level to avoid supporting a broken system more than you have to. Would you criticize someone for driving a BMW for instance, when they could get a used Toyota?
Socialism isnt against luxury objects like an iPhone or ps4, switch, Nice car, but i think that a life in the Middle of excessive luxury, looks bad to socialists in general.

I readed an article wrote by a commie some years Ago, that socialists should not buy an iphone, because of the condition of the Workers And suicide in China, and concluded that as we want the best for the Workers in all countries any Company That you know, that used slave labour like Zara etc or drives people to suicide like Apple should be boycotted by comrades.

I dont disagree to be fair. I think its morally contradictory in this regard to be a Commie and dont care about the Workers in other places.

Idk the PoV of you all
 

Deleted member 721

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I thought that was next year? Either way IIRC Diaz-Canel is expected to take over right? Pretty much a hard line party man.

There is an election going on in Nepal today actually, where the CPNUML and Maoists are still pretty strong. I haven't really read up on how legit they are in ages though. Seems like Kasama Project was the only site that focused on them.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ions-on-road-to-castro-eras-end-idUSKBN1DQ0PZ
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Is it valid to expect people who identify as socialist to avoid luxury products and excessive spending? I don't really consider myself a socialist, but I lean hard to the left and have a lot of disdain for consumerism. I know people always post that comic in response to people who give leftists shit for posting from an iPhone or whatever, but I feel like it makes sense on a certain level to avoid supporting a broken system more than you have to. Would you criticize someone for driving a BMW for instance, when they could get a used Toyota?


No?

Fuck lifestylism. Lifestylism isn't Socialism and that's why this "identify as" bullshit is garbage tier politics.


Socialism isnt against luxury objects like an iPhone or ps4, switch, Nice car, but i think that a life in the Middle of excessive luxury, looks bad to socialists in general.

I readed an article wrote by a commie some years Ago, that socialists should not buy an iphone, because of the condition of the Workers And suicide in China, and concluded that as we want the best for the Workers in all countries any Company That you know, that used slave labour like Zara etc or drives people to suicide like Apple should be boycotted by comrades.

I dont disagree to be fair. I think its morally contradictory in this regard to be a Commie and dont care about the Workers in other places.

Idk the PoV of you all

There's plenty of said about consumerism.

But when it's just pissing in the wind...
 

HarryHengst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,047
Socialism isnt against luxury objects like an iPhone or ps4, switch, Nice car, but i think that a life in the Middle of excessive luxury, looks bad to socialists in general.

I readed an article wrote by a commie some years Ago, that socialists should not buy an iphone, because of the condition of the Workers And suicide in China, and concluded that as we want the best for the Workers in all countries any Company That you know, that used slave labour like Zara etc or drives people to suicide like Apple should be boycotted by comrades.

I dont disagree to be fair. I think its morally contradictory in this regard to be a Commie and dont care about the Workers in other places.

Idk the PoV of you all
There really is no ethical consumption under capitalism, so you are always supporting shitty practices no matter what you buy.

I mean, looking at smartphones specifically, what are the alternatives for an iPhone? A Samsung? I guess there is the Fairphone but then you run into quality issues where its clearly an inferior phone which is not suitable for all uses. Same with for example clothing. I've looked into clothing that is as transparent as possible about supply chain traceability and worker conditions (often it's made in Europe), but the price is really high compared to the made-with-child-labour clothing from Asia that its pretty much out of range for most people. But what if you want to buy a car? I guess you could get second-hand one, but still, if you bring it to a garage and it has to fix things it will most likely use products from China which are most likely made in shitty conditions so yeah, damned no matter what you try.
 

Deleted member 721

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There really is no ethical consumption under capitalism, so you are always supporting shitty practices no matter what you buy.

I mean, looking at smartphones specifically, what are the alternatives for an iPhone? A Samsung? I guess there is the Fairphone but then you run into quality issues where its clearly an inferior phone which is not suitable for all uses. Same with for example clothing. I've looked into clothing that is as transparent as possible about supply chain traceability and worker conditions (often it's made in Europe), but the price is really high compared to the made-with-child-labour clothing from Asia that its pretty much out of range for most people. But what if you want to buy a car? I guess you could get second-hand one, but still, if you bring it to a garage and it has to fix things it will most likely use products from China which are most likely made in shitty conditions so yeah, damned no matter what you try.
I understand that is minimal and It Will not change nothing big, but while we live under capitalism IS something i adopt. Idk which cellphone Company has better conditions i can only hope its better than Apple. The same with Zara idk If the other place doesnt use slave labour. Its minimal etc and Will not change the system that perpetuates this. But until we dont change this, i Will try to not give my money to companies i know that use slave labour or have Very shitty conditions for the Workers.
 
OP
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sphagnum

sphagnum

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This is a pretty good overview about Nepal's political journey since the establishment of the republic in case anyone wants context for the election occurring. The first phase was yesterday with another phase in December. I haven't found any results yet though. Not gonna quote from this since you'd basically have to read the whole thing but I found it helpful.

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/11/nepal-elections-maoist-insurgency-new-democracy
 

Lafiel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
311
Melbourne, Australia
Here's a taste of what has being happening in Australian politics on the grassroots level https://redflag.org.au/node/6125 with a protester having a head smashed by the police and the police letting far-right nazis roam free whilst arrested a anti-racist protester for attacking one of them in self.defense. I'm writing up my own article on this incident with broader analysis later on.

It's moments like these where you feel completely vindicated for being a socialist and the true role of the police and the state starts to become very clear.
 

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Oct 25, 2017
10,416
Here's a taste of what has being happening in Australian politics on the grassroots level https://redflag.org.au/node/6125 with a protester having a head smashed by the police and the police letting far-right nazis roam free whilst arrested a anti-racist protester for attacking one of them in self.defense. I'm writing up my own article on this incident with broader analysis later on.

It's moments like these where you feel completely vindicated for being a socialist and the true role of the police and the state starts to become very clear.
Thats a Lot of blood, the police is Very violent over here too, and its very clear the difference when its the right Wing and the left on the Streets, when its the right Wing they take pictures with the police. When its the left its Rubber shots, gas bombs, cavalry, tasers etc people arrested without proof people usually gets Hurt, but the media doesnt Care they put the blame on the protesters
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
There really is no ethical consumption under capitalism, so you are always supporting shitty practices no matter what you buy.

I mean, looking at smartphones specifically, what are the alternatives for an iPhone? A Samsung? I guess there is the Fairphone but then you run into quality issues where its clearly an inferior phone which is not suitable for all uses. Same with for example clothing. I've looked into clothing that is as transparent as possible about supply chain traceability and worker conditions (often it's made in Europe), but the price is really high compared to the made-with-child-labour clothing from Asia that its pretty much out of range for most people. But what if you want to buy a car? I guess you could get second-hand one, but still, if you bring it to a garage and it has to fix things it will most likely use products from China which are most likely made in shitty conditions so yeah, damned no matter what you try.

This is true in general. In reality though, real choices have real effects. For instance, I think the right thing to do is work on lessening consumption and advocating for systematic change in the modes of production. To continue consuming carelessly, while having knowledge of the consequences, and then stating that personal credibility/lifestyle shifts are inconsequential, is hypocracy of the worst kind. You need both systematic change and change at a personal level. Change comes from a convergence of both elements.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Even though i haven't seen Death Of Stalin yet. I thought this was a good review, and thought you guys might be interested in it.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
Change comes through the upending of society, not reformism.

Change comes through the convergence of many different factors. Major events are tipping points sure, but they also emerge at particular junction points. i.e., there was a long lead up to the factors which resulted in the second world war, including the first world war...This kind of discussion - gradualism vs punctuated equilibrium - used to characterise discussions in evolutionary biology. In reality, it is a combination and interrelation of many changes occuring in many areas, and large changes happening when shit hits the fan.