I would expect DC to have 2 Dem senators while PR has 1 Dem, 1 Rep senators
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So will DC and PR become states now?
- Thread starter AnotherDayAnotherDollar
- Start date
I would expect DC to have 2 Dem senators while PR has 1 Dem, 1 Rep senators
Should not matter. Puerto Rico has been absolutely wrecked by the fact that it isn't a state.
Not even to mention, it's not guaranteed red by any stretch and I'd wager a guess that the party that gives them statehood would likely get a boost in the polls.
*breathes in*
The referendum from November was a non-binding one, aside that it was politically charged. It was no secret that said referendum was just a political move from the pro-statehood party to move their electors to vote, and try to survive after Rossello.
Each of those past times have had issues. We need a serious, non local politically charged binding referendum. Pedro Pierluisi Urrutia only won because of vote division, he only got 33% of the vote.
2012 = Non Binding, with 2 questions on the ballot, the 2nd one could only be voted on if you voted "No" in the first. People did not follow instructions, and such muddied the results.
2017 = Non Binding, and was boycotted by all political movements aside pf the pro-statehood party, for being seen as a waste of money.
2020 = Non, Binding, and was just a political ploy by the PNP, to evade electoral destruction after Rossello.
See above ^
That Pedro Pierluisi Urrutia is in power shouldn't be used as a gauge for our political leanings, he only won with 33% of the vote. Overall, this is how things were split and the parties leanings:
Pedro Pierluisi (PNP, center right) = 33%
Charlie Delgado (PPD, Center left) = 32%
Alexandra Lugaro (MVC, left wing) = 14%
Juan Dalmau (PIP, left wing) = 14%
Cesar Vazquez (PD, fundametalism) = 7%
And basically this ^ if you are not from the island, just ask to be informed on how things actually are here to be better inform + push your elected officials to give a serious binding referendum to finally resolve this issue.
The referendum from November was a non-binding one, aside that it was politically charged. It was no secret that said referendum was just a political move from the pro-statehood party to move their electors to vote, and try to survive after Rossello.
Each of those past times have had issues. We need a serious, non local politically charged binding referendum. Pedro Pierluisi Urrutia only won because of vote division, he only got 33% of the vote.
2012 = Non Binding, with 2 questions on the ballot, the 2nd one could only be voted on if you voted "No" in the first. People did not follow instructions, and such muddied the results.
2017 = Non Binding, and was boycotted by all political movements aside pf the pro-statehood party, for being seen as a waste of money.
2020 = Non, Binding, and was just a political ploy by the PNP, to evade electoral destruction after Rossello.
See above ^
That Pedro Pierluisi Urrutia is in power shouldn't be used as a gauge for our political leanings, he only won with 33% of the vote. Overall, this is how things were split and the parties leanings:
Pedro Pierluisi (PNP, center right) = 33%
Charlie Delgado (PPD, Center left) = 32%
Alexandra Lugaro (MVC, left wing) = 14%
Juan Dalmau (PIP, left wing) = 14%
Cesar Vazquez (PD, fundametalism) = 7%
And basically this ^ if you are not from the island, just ask to be informed on how things actually are here to be better inform + push your elected officials to give a serious binding referendum to finally resolve this issue.
Yeah, people seem to be under the impression that PR is going to come in as like a full blue state with 2 consistent blue Senators, but PR is a lot more politically diverse and polarized than people think. I believe PR should be a state, but I also know that it would probably be a swing state and a lot of the people pushing for it would probably regret it if that's the only reason they care about it. I actually think that's probably been a big factor has to why neither party has ever gone for a hard push for statehood. I mean, it's not the biggest reason, obviously, but I wager that's part of the discussion at the very least
2012 and 2017 were dumpster fires. 2020 was a legitimate vote. When was that quote from AOC? Before the 2020 vote?
I was reading some a Analysis where EC votes would likely go left and 3/4 rep seats as well.
Lol I had no idea, it makes sense but I never thought of it (I'm not American). Now I see it as an even more pathetic excuse.It's extra pointless because the US has changed the flag multiple times
If anything, the US should add 4 more states so that we can return to the nice clean look of 1912-1959.
Damn I feel for that one. Thanks for the info, it's interesting!
ok. Then what she said was fair When she said it. 2020 was a valid vote and statehood won by 4.5%
I saw that. What was the participation percent? I have no clue and can't find it on ballotpedia lol
But if they want to be a state, by and large, please let them.
our country was founded on a slogan of "no taxation without representation". I only first learned about PR after the hurricane but the situation is pretty appalling being a US colony and taxed and powerless.
I understand why DC was created as a neutral area back when the US was being founded but it's time for statehood.
I understand why DC was created as a neutral area back when the US was being founded but it's time for statehood.
im not sure, but there weren't massive boycotts like the previous votes
Participation Rate: 54.72%
link to the page with the official results: https://elecciones2020.ceepur.org/Escrutinio_General_93/index.html#es/default/PLEBISCITO_Resumen.xml
And to the other user... legitimate wouldn't be a word I use to describe our 2020 elections in PR
Appreciate that. More than half of the more than half voted for statehood, I say do it. Unless I'm missing something.
BringBackSonics here you go, as well!
I'm sure this is way more complicated than I'm imagining tho lol
I mean at some point, votes have to matter. I can see the objection to the 2012 and 2017. In 2014, only 36% of eligible Americans voted:
Voter turnout in United States elections
Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics
Weird question: what happens to the electoral college with DC/PR becoming states? Do the overall EC points get split apart by population with the two new states in the running or are more overall EC points added then given to DC/PR based on population? Assuming EC is based on population to begin with, which is has to be or else it makes even less sense.
Yeah this is what I'm kind of stumped by. It seems like a big change that also seems really easy to implement, so there has to be a catch somewhere. Unless there was just no will on either side for DC Statehood until the past few years?
Yeah this is what I'm kind of stumped by. It seems like a big change that also seems really easy to implement, so there has to be a catch somewhere. Unless there was just no will on either side for DC Statehood until the past few years?
That's why you just force a referendum that's handled by the feds. Get it done proper and once and for all.I mean at some point, votes have to matter. I can see the objection to the 2012 and 2017. In 2014, only 36% of eligible Americans voted:
Voter turnout in United States elections
Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politicsballotpedia.org
More EC votes will be added. The number needed to win will change, which will make it awkward for 538 and 270towin.
Because it's not that easy. Look up what a fillibuster is. Changing the rules on it or dismantling it is a huge act that absolutely doesn't have full support by dems
you don't even need a binding referendum. Not sure why some bring that up like it's somethjng that is necessary.
Main thing missing is a Inspector General audit which found serious irregularities. Which included:
- No controls were kept on the ballots in the process
- There are more overall ballots that were received post election, than those that went out.
- When broken down, it turns out that some category of ballots are way less than those send out for the election. Which was confirmed by the island's Election Commission, one of the case is Precint 003 of San Juan, with over 600 plebiscite ballots missing.
A report from ACLU and other legal observers also reported cases of machines with pre-registered votes, people who received more than one ballot for certain categories (a regular voter received 4 ballots; Executive, Legislative, Municipal, and Plebiscite), some voters received pre-marked ballots, and others were induced to vote one way or another by poll workers.
The lone races with validated results are the Legislative ones, because they went through a hand recount, and various court cases are on hold for that. The municipalities of Aguadilla, Culebra, and Guanica were also validated through a manual recount. The last going to a legal battle soon, because the Commission does not want to count votes for a write-in candidate, because some voters did not mark the "vote" square and only wrote in the name.
The irregularities got to the level that it became a running joke to compare to what led to Trump's attempted coup, even one of the local Supreme Court Justices had to make fun of the situation in one of her rulings on one of the cases that has gotten to the Supreme Court. In a way to paraphrase her, she basically said that while Trump was faking his conspiracy theories in US states, he probably wished to had run here to have proof for an actual fraud.
Link to Inspector General Audit (is in Spanish): http://www.oig.pr.gov/Documents/Informe de Examen CEE OIG-E-21-002 (30-12-2020).pdf
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I do not see how it is unfair. The residents are enfranchised as they should be. The rest of the country benefits from federal executive departments being closer to the citizenry. Federal employees benefit from cheaper rents.
It's the best way to handle any fallout from it, to avoid questions of an invalid referendum and it'd only take a few months. Besides the main excuse people like Bernie, Biden, AOC and others give is that Puerto Rico has to choose to become a state. Guess what? Forcing a referendum is letting them choose to be a state.
The problem with all these Puerto Rico referendums is that these are not requested by Congress therefore they are basically symbolic. Now, if Congress deemed that they wanted to really resolve Puerto Rico's status and call for a referendum, I bet that participation will be real high and that statehood will win by a landslide. But these fake-ass referendums sponsored by the PNP party (pro statehood party) are a joke and no one here takes them seriously.
Just make a Vatican in Rome situation and there's no paradox.
I'm not even sure if I want PR to be a state to be honest. I'd rather just let them go their own way.
D.C should absolutely be a state though.
D.C should absolutely be a state though.
The bill for DC statehood calls for the 23rd amendment to be repealed, although I guess that'd require a supermajority in Congress since it would be amending the constitution.
fallout 76 flagRegardless of whether or not they're added, can you guys PLEASE go back to this flag:
: ( 76
Well shit! Thanks for more info. A lot needs to be worked out. I wish the best for the people of P.R.
Do we even know what the legality is behind Congress passing a bill without a supermajority even though a Section in the bill requires a supermajority to come into effect? Would it make the entire bill invalid, or only that section? Has this ever been tested?
Argument is that the actual federal buildings would remain a seperate entity with the immediate land between them
And that really is only covering what happened on election day and a tad afterwards, but since then we have also gotten:
- The 3 of the 4 minority parties will enter a legal battle with the Election Commission (CEE from now on). Since its President does not want to give them equal represantation on the agency, basing himself on the Electoral Code approved on the June 2020 (yes, the pro statehood party [PNP] that had a super majority on both chambers of the Legislative Branch, changed the whole Electoral Code just mere months before the Nov. 3 elecgion). However, the Constitution of PR states that you cannot apply electoral laws retroactively in situations such as this. Important to note, this is also a redistricting year in PR.
- Before leaving, PNP Governor Wanda Vazquez gave a pardon to the ex husband of MVC Governorship candidate, Alexandra Lugaro. The "man" had kidnapped Lugaro's daugther, violated protection orders over 10 times, and tried to kill them both. The suspicion is that this was done as a political attack against Lugaro, as MVC is the minority party that has uncovered the majority of the irregularities. Aside that depending on what the Supreme Court decides, the just founded (year and a half ago) movement could win the mayorship of San Juan and a additional seat in the House. The race of San Juan taking special notice as it would mean the capital would not be in the hands of bipartidism + the Movement's candidate for the position is Lugaro's life partner, Manuel Natal.
- The PNP knowing this plebiscite would be discarded because of all the irregularities, use their last days as a super majority to approve yet another one for May 2021.
- It came to light, that the CEE President was looking to be nominated to the Apelative's Court, and that such he may had not been neutral in his decisions.
- Pierluisi's sister, Maria de la Caridad Pierluisi, will be working in Pierluisi's office and handle confidential info. Yes, it's a clear of nepotism, and in addition her husband is a known lobbyist, Andres Guillemard.
- To circumvent the will of the people, the PNP created Executive Branch offices in PNP bastion municipalities they lost to the main opposition party (PPD). They are to serve as parallel town halls leaded by the defeated PNP incumbent mayors, and will handle all federal and central government funds the municipality receive.
They have their own mayor and culture and to suddenly be given a voice but to have it be softened by needing to share it with the MD population feels unfair. As I imagine MD citizens would also feel about having the population of DC suddenly changing their electorate.
There's no reason it shouldn't be it's own state.
DC wants to, so it really comes down to a serious push. PR is a question mark, they've voted on it yet but the votes have been marred in local politics and non-binding so i wouldnt take much stock in it. But a serious push should be made, not even for political gain, but because us 'owning' territories is not something we should do in the modern age.
Couldn't you carve small sections of DC to be federal land still , make the state DC and keep the gov centers Washington DC or something dumb to circumvent this?
Guam and the Marianas are super tiny and remote and have super local, nepotistic politics. They'd probably prefer to stay territories, but they should absolutely be given the option.
PR is frankly too large to be left in this limbo.
The 538 votes gets split up even more unless they increase the size of the House
Id expect myself to catch that DC doesnt have Reps+Senators since they arent a state. lol thanks
PR has a lot of work to be done. It would be by far the poorest of the 50 (51 then) states and with major infrastructure problems.
I'm 100% for it for the reasons above and I feel we owe it to the people but it has to be the choice of Puerto Ricans
I'm 100% for it for the reasons above and I feel we owe it to the people but it has to be the choice of Puerto Ricans