So why doesn't NPD release any actual figures while the Japanese trackers do?

[jett]

This may be naive of me, but it's just something I wonder. Media Create releases detailed Japanese sales data publicly every week for software and hardware, meanwhile NPD holds all the figures tight to their chest, basically releases very little if anything. At best we get "hints" of how well hardware is doing. So how come? I'm sure Media Create manages to make money with their analytics business despite providing these numbers to the public.

 

[CarterTax]

I would also love to know the answer to this question. It's always been so strange to me that both MC and Famitsu can release weekly numbers of actual units sold for hardware and software, and for NPD we get monthly rankings three or four weeks after the month ends and no actual units sold.

 

[Saint-14]

If I'm not wrong they ask money for them, so it's a business.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Pretty sure they use too

 

[wrowa]

Competition? Famitsu and Dengeki release (parts of) their numbers publicly too, so even while MC is considered to be more reliable, they might feel forced to also give a more extensive look into their numbers free of charge to stay competetive.

 

[patientzero]

To add, gaming seems to be one of the very few pop culture industries that don't release numbers in the US. You can access Nielsen ratings, box office grosses, Soundscan and Billboard, as well as book sales quite easily.

 

[New Fang]

Yeah, it's always struck me as strange how secretive the gaming industry is with this stuff. Every other industry is very open about sales figures, and even production costs in the case of movies.

 

[Yunyo]

They used to, but IIRC Sony strong-armed the NPD out of doing it.

NPD doesn't have much clout, and they're not going to waste it campaigning for public disclosure of numbers.

 

[Astronut325]

It's also asinine that it takes almost a month after the ending period date to get any info.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

NPD is a joke. They have no competition so they realized years ago they were giving away info for free and anyone who leaked data would be sued. It's complete bullshit.

Doesn't matter though. As market keeps trending to digital their real numbers will become less and less accurate and will be hoarded internally among digital store front players. Market will turn similar to streaming platforms where no one has any clue what the hell is going on and who is succeeding.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Less publisher and partner would be on board if they would expose all the numbers to the public like that.

Like Sony early last Gen with the PS3 or MS this Gen when they stopped providing shipment numbers. Same for publishers and software bombas ....

It's much difficult to spin your own narrative when all the data is out there for the public to compare and doublecheck. We used to clown a bunch of Sony/MS/Nintendo PR in the past...guess why it doesnt happen anymore ?

Publisher don't want to get exposed - in comparison with movies were we get budget information and how much a film made... SE won't tell us what something like FF XV cost them in total and you know why.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

They used to, but IIRC Sony strong-armed the NPD out of doing it.

NPD doesn't have much clout, and they're not going to waste it campaigning for public disclosure of numbers.

Click to shrink...

Was it just Sony? I thought I heard it was them EA and a couple of other 3rd parties.

 

[Uno Venova]

Gaming in general is extremely secretive compared to everyone else.

 

[Gartooth]

It's done because of PR isn't it?

 

[Bjones]

There's a tangled web of corporate trust, federal laws protecting investors, and plain not enough true data with digital sales.

Basically even if they did it wouldnt be a true number these days because of the vastness of the digital market, which could affect investors, which could hurt relations with the publishers/platform holders.

 

[ASaiyan]

Ask MatPiscatella . Though I'd say the reasons publishers don't want exact figures out there have already been covered well enough in this thread.

 

[Deleted member 2226]

Sales data is stuff you don't want to give to competitors, fundamentally, not to mention it's easier to spin your results with Bezos numbers rather than actual numbers. I think the fundamental difference is as stated NPD doesn't have any real competition.

 

[KillerMan91]

Less publisher and partner would be on board if they would expose all the numbers to the public like that.

Like Sony early last Gen with the PS3 or MS this Gen when they stopped providing shipment numbers. Same for publishers and software bombas ....

It's much difficult to spin your own narrative when all the data is out there for the public to compare and doublecheck. We used to clown a bunch of Sony/MS/Nintendo PR in the past...guess why it doesnt happen anymore ?

Publisher don't want to get exposed - in comparison with movies were we get budget information and how much a film made... SE won't tell us what something like FF XV cost them in total and you know why.

Click to shrink...

Sony did release early last gen shipment data. It was after Vita bombing (so sometime 2012) that they started to combine PSP and Vita and PS3 and PS2 for the while.Then after PS4 launch they completely stopped sharing late Vita and PS3 shipments and only have showed PS4 shipments.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

I still remember the golden years when we could bitch about which game sold more down to the unit.

 

[skeezx]

because in america we're all winners

 

[Penny Royal]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Deleted member 31092]

How the videogame industry is obsessed about secrecy on budgets and sales is kinda ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 925]

As far as I know, you always had to give money to NPD for the numbers. Its just that numbers were always leaked on GAF and there was a certain point where a lawsuit was threatened, I believe. For a while there was officially released top 10 unit numbers from NPD to GAF but that ended as well. And of course NPD combines multi platforms into their numbers. It's all a shit show. Wish there was a competitor.

 

[Gartooth]

Don't these reports also cost a couple grand too?

So basically if you're a consumer, video game sales don't exist in America. It's best to just hope for companies to report their own game sales at the end of a fiscal year.

 

[Piston]

A lot of the points in this thread against releasing numbers are stupid considering we get numbers despite those reasons for Box Office, Bill Board, TV, and most other major entertainment industries.

 

[Deleted member 8674]

It's always the gaming industry with all the secrecy. Just look at Box Office, TV, music and even books.

 

[Menx64]

Because revenue matters more than units? It does not make sense to make a ranking based on units when games selling 100k copies at $10 would be higher than and other games that only made 50k at $60...

 

[Procheno]

Corporate greed and the shady need to hide information

 

[fiendcode]

Because revenue matters more than units? It does not make sense to make a ranking based on units when games selling 100k copies at $10 would be higher than and other games that only made 50k at $60...

Click to shrink...

Sure but they don't give revenue figures? Only rankings based off revenue.

This isn't an NPD only thing though, GfK/Chart-Track doesn't give out figures either. Or maybe more accurately the Japanese market is unique, likely owing to the publishing based origins of it's trackers plus the fact there's actual competition between them.

 

[Devilgunman]

Because NPD sells those numbers and make money off of them. They're not going to release them for free and those who leaked them got in trouble.

 

[iareharSon]

May I ask what benefit releasing the numbers would have on the industry?

 

[Zedark]

Didn't they also make a deal with multiple publishers to include digital, but one of the terms was that they wouldn't release exact numbers anymore?

That's not the sole reason, of course.

 

[Acevil]

May I ask what benefit releasing the numbers would have on the industry?

Click to shrink...

Be able to make informed decision on what is working and what is not?

 

[Kelanflyter]

to be fair, large part of Europe don't give numbers too

 

[Deleted member 2785]

As far as I know, you always had to give money to NPD for the numbers. Its just that numbers were always leaked on GAF and there was a certain point where a lawsuit was threatened, I believe. For a while there was officially released top 10 unit numbers from NPD to GAF but that ended as well. And of course NPD combines multi platforms into their numbers. It's all a shit show. Wish there was a competitor.

Click to shrink...

Amazing how all of this is incorrect.

The reports back in the day had full volumes for hw and sw because the data agreements with publishers and retailers allowed them. Those agreements no longer allow these things.

There are plenty of competitors that publish a lot of stuff. Difference is NPD tracks actual point of sale data, while others publish based on survey and extrapolation.

Because what we track is data from publishers and retailers, we must have agreements in place in order to utilize that data. If publishers and retailers do not wish that data to be public, well it is their data.

Other regions or territories may have different views on this issue.

If it were up to me, more data would be made available. But it's not, so it isn't.

 

[Chris1964]

Because NPD sells those numbers and make money off of them. They're not going to release them for free and those who leaked them got in trouble.

Click to shrink...

Media Create, Famitsu and Dengeki sell the full numbers too and aren't cheap at all.

 

[nekkid]

It's always the gaming industry with all the secrecy. Just look at Box Office, TV, music and even books.

Click to shrink...

It's funny. Gaming fans are obsessed with the numbers and the industry doesn't release them, whereas most other entertainment industries do release the numbers and by and large the communities are much less bothered.

 

[Mass Effect]

NPD holds all the figures tight to their chest, basically releases very little if anything.

Click to shrink...

But they DID used to though. Remember?

They stopped for a simple reason: Money.

 

[Kareha]

Probably because the sales figures are bullshit to appease investors.

 

[Deleted member 24118]

Amazing how all of this is incorrect.

The reports back in the day had full volumes for hw and sw because the data agreements with publishers and retailers allowed them. Those agreements no longer allow these things.

There are plenty of competitors that publish a lot of stuff. Difference is NPD tracks actual point of sale data, while others publish based on survey and extrapolation.

Because what we track is data from publishers and retailers, we must have agreements in place in order to utilize that data. If publishers and retailers do not wish that data to be public, well it is their data.

Other regions or territories may have different views on this issue.

If it were up to me, more data would be made available. But it's not, so it isn't.

Click to shrink...

Well, there it is.

 

[Cess007]

Amazing how all of this is incorrect.

The reports back in the day had full volumes for hw and sw because the data agreements with publishers and retailers allowed them. Those agreements no longer allow these things.

There are plenty of competitors that publish a lot of stuff. Difference is NPD tracks actual point of sale data, while others publish based on survey and extrapolation.

Because what we track is data from publishers and retailers, we must have agreements in place in order to utilize that data. If publishers and retailers do not wish that data to be public, well it is their data.

Other regions or territories may have different views on this issue.

If it were up to me, more data would be made available. But it's not, so it isn't.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for clarifying Mat and dispelling misinformation.

 

[Deleted member 925]

Amazing how all of this is incorrect.

The reports back in the day had full volumes for hw and sw because the data agreements with publishers and retailers allowed them. Those agreements no longer allow these things.

There are plenty of competitors that publish a lot of stuff. Difference is NPD tracks actual point of sale data, while others publish based on survey and extrapolation.

Because what we track is data from publishers and retailers, we must have agreements in place in order to utilize that data. If publishers and retailers do not wish that data to be public, well it is their data.

Other regions or territories may have different views on this issue.

If it were up to me, more data would be made available. But it's not, so it isn't.

Click to shrink...

I looked back at the original thread on GAF about the changes with NPD, and you're right. I had most of it wrong, this was from 2007, but the NPD did have an agreement with GAF to release certain numbers and then went back on it. Which is a shame.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Amazing how all of this is incorrect.

The reports back in the day had full volumes for hw and sw because the data agreements with publishers and retailers allowed them. Those agreements no longer allow these things.

There are plenty of competitors that publish a lot of stuff. Difference is NPD tracks actual point of sale data, while others publish based on survey and extrapolation.

Because what we track is data from publishers and retailers, we must have agreements in place in order to utilize that data. If publishers and retailers do not wish that data to be public, well it is their data.

Other regions or territories may have different views on this issue.

If it were up to me, more data would be made available. But it's not, so it isn't.

Click to shrink...

Uhh, we're you around back then? His post is not incorrect. for a time NPD was specifically catering requests to GAF because the sales threads were getting so many hits and quite a few leaks.
https://www./threads/the-future-of-npd-info-on-neogaf-update.132850/

As the PS3 started to slow in NA and the Vita tanking Sony started leading the charge on very purposeful misleading or vague PR statements. Other companies followed suit. That's also when NPD went into hard lock down and for a time stopped releasing any revenue or unit numbers publically (not a single title) and there was hard core pressure to clamp down on any leaks. Thankfully that buttsonatrain guy or whatever from GAF started hard leaking tons of stuff every month but he too after a while was completely cut off.

NPD sucks and has been a leader of cutting off transparency across an industry for their own personal financial gain (they absolutely could push back on publishers or be strategic in negotiations and what they offer). No other entertainment form has this level of bullshit and all other major regions have more visibility into tracking despite being less prominent from a business standpoint. For decades the film, music, and TV industries have been sentenced to death due to public viewership and sales data. Why Shouldn't the video game industry be held to the same fire?

 

[Deleted member 2785]

I looked back at the original thread on GAF about the changes with NPD, and you're right. I had most of it wrong, this was from 2007, but the NPD did have an agreement with GAF to release certain numbers and then went back on it. Which is a shame.

Click to shrink...

It was a shame. We do give what we can to Zhuge every month for the thread, and I'm here (although this type of outreach is nowhere in my JD) so those of us on the games business actually do care about this stuff.

It's done because of PR isn't it?

Click to shrink...

Because not releasing detailed data points is more effective for PR than having business news publications, cable news and websites slapping the logo everywhere while using NPD data to highlight the biggest trends???

 

[Deleted member 925]

It's funny. Gaming fans are obsessed with the numbers and the industry doesn't release them, whereas most other entertainment industries do release the numbers and by and large the communities are much less bothered.

Click to shrink...

That's totally not true. Have you seen the music industry and certain fan groups? People are obsessed with those numbers.

 

[Sphinx]

there's one thing I am curious about

back in the day, NPD sent a cease and desist to GAF, right? and today, if someone would not leak but straight-up provide numbers without any sort of secrecy in this forum, NPD would take measures so my question is:

Why does NPD care about it? I mean, shouldn't the affected 3rd parties (Sony, MS, EA, etc) send those C&D to those info providers and not NPD itself?

 

[Angst]

Because not releasing detailed data points is more effective for PR than having business news publications, cable news and websites slapping the logo everywhere while using NPD data to highlight the biggest trends???

Click to shrink...

Its more like, releasing hard numbers on games that tanked would be "bad" PR. So it would be in that publishers best interest that you didn't publish that data.

 

[nekkid]

That's totally not true. Have you seen the music industry and certain fan groups? People are obsessed with those numbers.

Click to shrink...

I've been a member of both music and movie forums in the past, and it was never anything like I see on here.

 

[Deleted member 2785]

Its more like, releasing hard numbers on games that tanked would be "bad" PR. So it would be in that publishers best interest that you didn't publish that data.

Click to shrink...

Ah. You're talking about publisher or retailer PR. Gotcha.

Yeah, can't speak to the motivations of others. Would be great PR for us to have more info out there (which is why so much was released back in the day).

 

[jett]

Amazing how all of this is incorrect.

The reports back in the day had full volumes for hw and sw because the data agreements with publishers and retailers allowed them. Those agreements no longer allow these things.

There are plenty of competitors that publish a lot of stuff. Difference is NPD tracks actual point of sale data, while others publish based on survey and extrapolation.

Because what we track is data from publishers and retailers, we must have agreements in place in order to utilize that data. If publishers and retailers do not wish that data to be public, well it is their data.

Other regions or territories may have different views on this issue.

If it were up to me, more data would be made available. But it's not, so it isn't.

Click to shrink...

I appreciate the answer, thank you.