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Egocrata

Member
Aug 31, 2019
419
Any game that pits soviets vs nazis is awesome. The just have cool uniforms, they are both evil, and I don't mind losing playing either because I know I am part of genocidal monstrous system.

Also, Stalinist USSR had just great art design. Grandiose totalitarianism looks amazing in video games. And the Soviet anthem is just so bad ass.

They just make for great enemies, as well. You don't need to explain their motivations. They are the Soviets! The are bad.
 
Aug 30, 2020
2,171
Interestingly most Germams like to play Wehrmacht but absolutely hate playing as the Soviets. Strange...

/s
There is also some kind of weird patriotism going on with the weaponry. Even the most progressive/ left Germans like the Tiger, Panther, G43 or Stg44.

Both German and Soviet (and even British) WW2 hardware is a lot more interesting than the utterly practical, effective, efficient American (I mean it was the 40s...) technique of just taking the middle path.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,204
I thought that Spetsnaz level from the Battlefield 3 campaign was awesome, absolutely the highlight of that game's singleplayer mode. Loved the banter between the team and fast-pace of everything
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Has there been a game that actually portrayed the war from Russian or even German perspectives, if I even dare to ask that question?

I don't have any issues with narration from different sides / fiction and / or maybe propaganda in games , but still, slightly curious?

I mean, America's Army was pure propoganda and I loved the shit out of it the first 1.5 year. Then it switched engines or something after a while Special Forces released and became shit.

e: Not the CoD stuff and the likes
Company of Heroes 1 had a few German campaigns that the xpacks added (such as tanker campaign and a Market Garden campaign), it's aged well I think other than the HUD. I'd check it out.

Company of Heroes 2's main campaign was Soviet, with a number of the key moments of the Eastern Front depicted such as Stalingrad.
 

DaciaJC

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,685
The aesthetic plus the ideals of socioeconomic equality and selfless sacrifice make it easy to root for them - and also make it easy to ignore that some of the worst atrocities in recorded history were perpetrated by the Soviets and other proponents of communism.
 

SigSig

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,777
Any game that pits soviets vs nazis is awesome. The just have cool uniforms, they are both evil, and I don't mind losing playing either because I know I am part of genocidal monstrous system.
I guess when the red army raped their way through Poland and Germany, they fucked the evil out of those women. It really was SO awesome.
 

Ctalkeb

Member
Apr 12, 2020
294
Did "Stalker" feature gopnik criminals who were romanticised in the 90s post-soviet pop culture?

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is a mix of influences. Unless you actually speak Ukrainian and can tell apart the pure Russian of the Mercs, from the Uki used by the army, to the the surzhyk mix that the Bandits speak in "Shadow of Chernobyl" (the later games featured increasingly all-Russian cast), you're gonna miss a lot of these nuances. But even though the game was made in Russian, it is very different in tone from something like the Metro games (and the games, especially Exodus are a huge departure from Glukhovsky's work and messages).
No, but I absolutely recommend the movie.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,214
Wish people went so hard on Soviet crimes when a game like COD Warzone transforms gulags into shootbang funtime.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
Because communism and communist state / country aren't the same thing.
Communism is cool.
Communist state are terrible.
I would say that if an economic system can't survive the transition from the page to the real world intact then it is a bad economic system. What good is an economic system that can survive or compete in the real world?
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
I "love" how anyone who lived in a Communist country wants nothing to do with it, but all the defenders who never had to go through that shit are going "It's the implementation that's the problem, not the ideology").

I grew up in Russia in the late 70s/80s and yeah, f that. Also anyone idealizing Stalin, Lenin and the bunch are nuts. Millions purged post Civil War during Lenin Era. Many more millions killed during Stalinist purges. Millions dead from starvation. Millions more dead from crap leadership and strategy during first year of WWII.

So yeah, if you want to try Communism, grab Elan and skidaddle to Mars. We will watch from here.

Mind you, properly implemented socialistic measures like healthcare, public transport, social net and more make sense, but that ain't what people are defending in this thread.

All above said I still love old Soviet movies and some of the music, books, etc... but that's more nostalgia talking.
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,408

I wanted to post something similar tbh. I guess that in the West soviet communism isn't associated with so many horrible things than in - let's say - Eastern Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that people in American schools (and most "cool communism" games are made in US) learn much about soviet occupation of Poland, Czech Republic or about the soviet war crimes etc. Of course there are some exeptions, like CoH2.
 

Egocrata

Member
Aug 31, 2019
419
I guess when the red army raped their way through Poland and Germany, they fucked the evil out of those women. It really was SO awesome.
It is more a case that if I am playing as the Germans and I lose, I can say "well, the evil genocidal antisemites lost". If I play with the Soviets and I lose I can say "well, the evil communist genocidal brutes lost".

It is a shame that they can't both lose, but evil loses no matter what.
 

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
I wanted to post something similar tbh. I guess that in the West soviet communism isn't associated with so many horrible things than in - let's say - Eastern Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that people in American schools (and most "cool communism" games are made in US) learn much about soviet occupation of Poland, Czech Republic or about the soviet war crimes etc. Of course there are some exeptions, like CoH2.

It's America-centrism doing its work. I also don't know a lot about American history, but at least I don't pretend I do and glorify or downplay things that happened.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
For all its hate of their commie ways, Western media projects and idealizes a presumed military prowess and ruthlessness onto the USSR. Now i'm not actually learned enough about the cold war to be able to speak on this, but i have to think that it in some way is an aggrandizing of an historical nemesis of the US that retroactively makes the US look even better by having "beaten" the USSR.
It could also come from the WWII realities of the Soviet army - they were incredibly formidable and ruthless
 

Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
I'd love for a grounded, not-entirely-implausible videogame adaptation of Operation Unthinkable with a tone similar to World in Conflict. For those unfamiliar it was basically a British plan at the end of WW2 to immediately "keep going" and kick the Soviets out of Poland/Eastern Europe. We've had Cold War games, we've had Scifi Soviet games, I think it's time for something different.

Just think of the narrative potential with the Soviets going up against the Allies with the German Remnants and the Eastern Europeans caught in-between. Not to mention the US briefly being the sole nuclear power at the time.
 

Nacery

Member
Jul 11, 2018
1,475
They always had the aura of the hardened working class male hero so alpha and so male that it deflected homosexuals into gulags. Guess western caracterization of soviets also didn't help...
 
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Lampa

Member
Feb 13, 2018
3,571
I "love" how anyone who lived in a Communist country wants nothing to do with it, but all the defenders who never had to go through that shit are going "It's the implementation that's the problem, not the ideology").

I grew up in Russia in the late 70s/80s and yeah, f that. Also anyone idealizing Stalin, Lenin and the bunch are nuts. Millions purged post Civil War during Lenin Era. Many more millions killed during Stalinist purges. Millions dead from starvation. Millions more dead from crap leadership and strategy during first year of WWII.

So yeah, if you want to try Communism, grab Elan and skidaddle to Mars. We will watch from here.

Mind you, properly implemented socialistic measures like healthcare, public transport, social net and more make sense, but that ain't what people are defending in this thread.

All above said I still love old Soviet movies and some of the music, books, etc... but that's more nostalgia talking.
As a person living in a country that was under the communist regime, I absolutely agree. "cool communism" posts give me the same vibe as if someone said nacism is cool. It absolutely is not cool.
 

White Glint

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
I wanted to post something similar tbh. I guess that in the West soviet communism isn't associated with so many horrible things than in - let's say - Eastern Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that people in American schools (and most "cool communism" games are made in US) learn much about soviet occupation of Poland, Czech Republic or about the soviet war crimes etc. Of course there are some exeptions, like CoH2.
Yeah I think someone earlier pointed out it's pretty much American propaganda to paint the soviets in a palatable light because they allied the USA against nazis.

Anyway tankies belong face down dead in the same ditch as neonazis.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,124
Chile
People are willing to be selfless on a global scale.

Communism could work in a society where material greed has been eliminated as a driving motivation. Where people don't need to feel they are better than anyone else, since the maxim "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs" relies on the fact that each member of the society will find their niche and be perfectly happy in the knowledge that everyone is contributing what they can (no matter how un-equal these contributions might be)

Basically, in order for communism to work, you'd need a batch of humans raised in absolute isolation from any other complex industrial society, who are imprinted with these social maxims from birth.

That's what makes it a utopia, imo, given my background in both psych and polisci.

We can make rational decisions;that doesn't make us fundamentally rational.

Especially with the dawn of the information age, where even our mighty prefrontal cortexes are bombarded with such info that we are not physically capable of processing it all; which is why 90+% of our decisions are made subconsciously, and why info wars are such a huge thing now.

I don't think that's really human nature, or at least not in it's entirety. There are primal motivations to both good living standards and community efforts, our last century+ of consumerism and push towards competitiveness in an economical sense aren't just born out of nowhere, they are constantly pushed in society, as you well say, especially in our information age, that try to amplify *one* aspect of human nature disregarding the other ones. Liberal capitalism as we are used to be living in thrives in consuming goods, especially those that aren't essential, and the different States of the world need to promote this, and it's done via strong economical policies and also the educational system, where in a lot of places isn't with an integral human development perspective, but a productive one in mind. It is, by definition, a system. This is beyond if it works or not, but consider that is "just human nature" is a very narrow viewpoint to this, I'm you sure you know better, incredible complex system. There are pre-colonial cultures in America that aren't really pro competitiveness in the same sense as we are used, for example, with better cultural predisposition to disregard pure wealth in favor of a different higher standard of living. That's human nature too. A point that prooves how this competitiveness can be even against human nature is the way it affects mental health in a lot of people. How humans often do not want to be competitive, and how society pushing cause a mental stress that just destroy the human mind.

A strong educational system that doesn't confine to the capitalist standards would absolutely be necessary in this sense, as you say, and from that perspective, it would absolutely be possible a society with higher community standards. The problem comes in how to achieve that, and in those experiments we see failure and successes in different scales. But it's easy to just think that it's impossible due to human nature. It isn't, as "human nature" isn't a single rigid thing.


Thats odd, I'd thought there would be some taboo about doing so.


I'm critical of communism/socialism and I'm not American, I'm Australian. We have universal healthcare. A lot of the defences of communism/socialism seem to be US whataboutism.

A lot of defences of marxist ideologies seem that way because of the whole "lol communist failed so many times!" thing. Capitalism, especially the current biggest force driving it - the US - has failed in different levels, on many different periods of our history. They are allowed to reform and re shape, but it ends up in critical conditions again. Add to this the different crimes commited in the name of freeing countries from socialism and voila, that's where this comes from. People always lose perspective of the crimes of any "side" of this capital/marxism battle that, unlike nazism and fascism, said crimes aren't really inherently coming from the ideologies but a lot of other reasons involved, from pure evil to "material" evil. Which one you consider the most has a lot to do with where you come from, people from Eastern Europe will justifiably be more anti-socialist that those of us who got "economic freedom" in the form of coups and prolonged years of torture and killings.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
Meanwhile, in Mortal Kombat...
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nxa-studios-argentina-ska-koldwar.jpg

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formatnone

Member
Oct 31, 2017
270
Lithuania
Well when i turn my head 30 degrees and still can see Khrushchyovka 200 meters from me, and have relatives that where enslaved in Siberia it doesn't feel good. I'm also really torn about playing Disco Elysium, the portrait of Stalin in developers studio doesn't help at all.
 
May 17, 2019
2,649
Well when i turn my head 30 degrees and still can see Khrushchyovka 200 meters from me, and have relatives that where enslaved in Siberia it doesn't feel good. I'm also really torn about playing Disco Elysium, the portrait of Stalin in developers studio doesn't help at all.

If it helps any, and I do find the Stalin thing quite creepy, communism in DE is more treated as unattainable vision, rather than a triumphant goal
 

gifyku

Member
Aug 17, 2020
2,739
Page 1 had an interesting double-take

"Why are soviets so cool in games?"
"Because communism is cool"
"Said no person living in the Soviet Union"
"The Soviet Union wasn't true communism"

--

Communists are cool in videogames because there's an allure to authoritarianism in fiction, and videogames lets people play out those fantasies.

This. I would expand it as there is a weird allure to Communism and Marxism in general in Western democracies, usually from people who think they can do better than the many countries who have tried both of these and failed; it is the weirdest form of Western/American exceptionalism I have seen, usually in academia from those whose only connection to either of these philosophies is being in a union and striking for tenure. "The only reason communist states have failed and killed their own people in droves is because they never implemented it correctly"

Source: I grew up in a Marxist leaning political context in South Asia
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,285
Australia
A lot of defences of marxist ideologies seem that way because of the whole "lol communist failed so many times!" thing. Capitalism, especially the current biggest force driving it - the US - has failed in different levels, on many different periods of our history. They are allowed to reform and re shape, but it ends up in critical conditions again. Add to this the different crimes commited in the name of freeing countries from socialism and voila, that's where this comes from. People always lose perspective of the crimes of any "side" of this capital/marxism battle that, unlike nazism and fascism, said crimes aren't really inherently coming from the ideologies but a lot of other reasons involved, from pure evil to "material" evil. Which one you consider the most has a lot to do with where you come from, people from Eastern Europe will justifiably be more anti-socialist that those of us who got "economic freedom" in the form of coups and prolonged years of torture and killings.
While the US does have many issues it still has a higher standard of living than any socialist/communist society has ever achieved. And there are many other capitalist nations that don't have the same issues that the US has.

And one of the big issues with arguing proponents of socialism/communism is that they say it only failed because of outside interference, or that it's never been tried i.e. not true communism. The latter is annoying because you're arguing for capitalism, something which exists in the real world and so is going to be inherently flawed, against some utopian ideal that is basically unfalsifiable.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
While the US does have many issues it still has a higher standard of living than any socialist/communist society has ever achieved. And there are many other capitalist nations that don't have the same issues that the US has.

And one of the big issues with arguing proponents of socialism/communism is that they say it only failed because of outside interference, or that it's never been tried i.e. not true communism. The latter is annoying because you're arguing for capitalism, something which exists in the real world and so is going to be inherently flawed, against some utopian ideal that is basically unfalsifiable.

They have been tried and marxists learn a lot of the mistakes and how these worker states eventually betray it's marxist roots.

The notion that you see it's study and advocacy as utopianism betrays your lack of reading on the subject more than anything else.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,794
JP
For all its hate of their commie ways, Western media projects and idealizes a presumed military prowess and ruthlessness onto the USSR. Now i'm not actually learned enough about the cold war to be able to speak on this, but i have to think that it in some way is an aggrandizing of an historical nemesis of the US that retroactively makes the US look even better by having "beaten" the USSR.

Didn't really have to do that ourselves when they keep having massive arms parades.
 
Oct 25, 2017
29,438
It's kinda funny that modern Russians lack a bit of the coolness as bad guys in modern stuff and its extremely noticeable to me in a game like COD4 where the bad Russians were all using Soviet era equipment and uniforms meanwhile the modern bad Russians in later games lacked it.
CoD4UltraGasmask.png

Heck the good modern Russians in that game were kinda bland themselves
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Though I feel similar about 80-90s American military stuff but i think that's just nostalgia from growing up with it and seeing it all the time(it was the boring standard at the time but once the modern stuff became standard worldwide the old stuff was nostalgic)
 
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JT60564

Member
Oct 19, 2020
862
For me, the soviets were "cool" because I grew up in America where you were taught that WWII started in 1941 and the USA singlehandedly saved Europe from the Nazis. Many video games were (and still are) designed to appeal to this America-centrism. But when the first CoD came out and the best and most exciting and terrifying parts of the game were with the Soviet Union, it was unlike anything I'd ever seen and I still count it as one of my favorite games.

(Now, to be sure, that first Soviet mission was lifted straight out of Enemy At the Gates, but never mind)
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,285
Australia
They have been tried and marxists learn a lot of the mistakes and how these worker states eventually betray it's marxist roots.

The notion that you see it's study and advocacy as utopianism betrays your lack of reading on the subject more than anything else.
The "mistakes" where thinking communism could work. Also all the mass deaths.

I have read a bit on the subject, and I am aware that Marx himself didn't want it to be utopian. I was more talking about people online pushing for it.
 
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