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So... Where is the body fat?
- Thread starter Fredrik
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OP
OP
What about all the women you meet, what's their reason to be shredded?
The lacking body diversity stretch over the whole world. To me it's boring.
Just thought of a character that is quite good. Jonah in the Tomb Raider trilogy. (If you ignore that he has changed looks three times during three games.)
Its a joke It's no different to the skin naughty dog created for the fat drake doughnut drake
OP
OP
i like jonah as well but having a new zealand and/or pacific islands character be heavy set is a trope in and of itself
Sorry for being unclear! Too tired to post tbh š
Why would you like gaming to be less inclusive for different body types because you personally use it for escapism? Even if you say you have read that it will have a net positive for society and mental health of a larger part of the population (I assume that's what you've read, because that's what I remember reading).
And yes, also why do you use it for escapism? (I do too sometimes, life can be stressful as hellš)
And yes, also the last one, why do you think that is? I thought it was quite confronting for me when I played Disco Elysium where the main character can be in some ways conventionally 'ugly' and I was a bit unconfortable with that, hoping I could make him 'cooler' and a more 'acceptable' way. I think it psychologically has to do with the fear of not being accepted.
But I think it's interesting why it's so important, like some people get really stressed out about just seeing non-conventional people.
I agree with you. I was just thinking about a game where the person you play where it makes sense that they're a shredded super-athlete.
Bingo. Just like Gibraltar and Roadhog. Always gotta be some spiritual laid back guy (usually), and quite frankly I'm tired of it.
Olympians eat a lot of mcdonalds actually, at that fitness level your body can burn anything I guess
Yeah, this absolutely sucked - it's literally just making fun out of her at every opportunity. I was almost begging the game to give her a character arc of some sort - it would have been so easy to do too.I don't think the OP necessarily means 90% of people are fat, I think they just mean 90% of people that aren't super ripped or muscular or some shit.
I've been playing Persona 4 Golden lately and been getting real pissed at how they have treated Hanako. For those that don't know, this is Hanako:
In the screenshot above, it's from the scene where you first meet her, and they have her be nothing but the butt of a joke. Yosuke accidentally calls her thinking he's calling another girl, and then she shows up and sits on Yosuke's scooter and instantly breaks it, because the game is basically going "Haha she's fat and likes food!" Less than an hour later on the camping trip everyone's eating and she's eating a plate that's like 3 times as large as everyone else's.
She never gets ANY characterization other than this in various moments throughout the game. The entire purpose of the character is just to be a fat-shamed "joke" character. She's not even a social link in the game. I think she should have been a playable character with a backstory, or AT LEAST a social link and have an actual character here.
Honestly my bar for this stuff is so low that forget a protagonist, I'd be satisfied with a game just acknowledging that a plus-sized person exists and is actually treated like a person.
OP
OP
Maybe but I take what I get, he's a genuine nice guy. I like how he told Lara to stop being so full of herself in Shadow after the tsunami, and they even gave him a girlfriend so he could stop drooling after Lara. I just hope they don't remove him, feels like they're undecided each time what they should do with him considering all the changes.
I'm fat and out of shape, but if I did all the things the characters in my video games did I wouldn't be. I guess it makes sense.
I ran like thousand km and climbed as many mountains in Breath of the Wild.
I ran like thousand km and climbed as many mountains in Breath of the Wild.
that scene was specifically added for golden even. main game wasnt that much better, but its weird how they decided to double down on the "haha lol fat people are funny cause theyre fat" dumbassery. Specially since one of the social links (arguably the best one in the game mechanically speaking) deals with a person who suffered abuse for being fat in their life
Rockstar games usually represents different body sizes well, like usual they're better at representation than just about all other developers.
OP
OP
Yeah that's pretty much my thinking as well, I still have hope it'll change though.
What if they swapped Sadie's and Karen's models in RDR2? That would've been something, because in gaming a strong female apparently needs to be slim and wear pants. Forget being plus-sized and definitely while wearing a dress, not even Peach can pull that off.
User Banned (1 Week): Justifying fatshaming over multiple posts
This won't be popular, but in the age of covid, it needs to be said.
This isn't a representation question because body fat percentage isn't an immutable characteristic like race, gender, disability, sexuality, etc. Rather, it's a health question. Covid has rapidly dispelled the always dishonest "Fat But Fit" echosphere.
We may as well ask whether games should have more smokers (although, yes, there are plenty of smokers).
This isn't a representation question because body fat percentage isn't an immutable characteristic like race, gender, disability, sexuality, etc. Rather, it's a health question. Covid has rapidly dispelled the always dishonest "Fat But Fit" echosphere.
We may as well ask whether games should have more smokers (although, yes, there are plenty of smokers).
Yeah, one game that really confronted me was Disco Elysium. I couldn't do and be anything I wanted and failure was around the corner, and failing didn't necessarily mean 'do over' it meant.. you failed and now you have to move on. I was pretty frustrated at first (and I play a variety of games and don't lean only into power-fantasies, but it's in SO MUCH)
Leaning away from it allows for so much fun, creativity and imagination in the story-telling and gameplay. And of course the story actually hit harder, because that's how life is.
this isn't popular because it's garbage. disingenuous concern trolling over people's health has always been used as a shield while being discriminatory against other body types, and ignores *so many* variables that go beyond just time
OP
OP
I actually said spare time. I don't have 40 minutes of spare time three times a week. Then I would get 40 minutes 3 times a week less of something else I'll rather do. Everything is competing for my time, gaming too. As of now I essentially play games when I should sleep (which isn't good for my health either) because games are so violent and I have kids who go to sleep too late.
Speaking of that, it's 02:06 right now... Sigh. Time for bed. This night I squeezed in some awesome Ghost of Tsushima gaming during the posting on Era though! It's entering my top 3 GOTY as of right now!
20% body fat cab be reasonable fit though and game characters are generally 10% or something silly. It might make sense for steroid super soldiers or world explorers who are basically professional rock climbers but its not really necessary for like... The watch dogs guy or a random police detective
Yeah a fair proportion of the responses here are about what I'd expect for the general video game audience. More than just apathy, there's an air of subdued hostility towards anything that makes geek media less purely escapist.
Adding body fat would detract from the 'realism' of modern games.
*pops 20 pills to gain the ability to craft health kits and arrows faster*
Of course. You have to draw the line somewhere. What kind of message would we be sending to society if we let a hefty character be the one to slaughter thousands of enemies in the next triple A open world game?
*pops 20 pills to gain the ability to craft health kits and arrows faster*
Of course. You have to draw the line somewhere. What kind of message would we be sending to society if we let a hefty character be the one to slaughter thousands of enemies in the next triple A open world game?
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Well sure, there's money, education, access to good food.
But genetics make up a tiny portion of bodyfat variation factors. The vast majority is environmental: nutrition and training.
Unless the rise in obesity just happened to start rising in all industrial nations when processed food and automation began in the 1970s.
Look, it's not an easy problem to solve, but ideal inputs are pretty easy to define.
It is definitely a representation question.
Not everyone has the chance to be a certain body fat level, and some bodies just don't 'look healthy' to many people.
And some people honestly don't care to be fit and live good lives anyway. And I personally 'look healthy' but I'm not.
And body fat percentage and body type does not equal 'health'.
OP himself said he's been too busy having kids and stuff so he got a bit of a belly?
So you're saying it would make people less inclined to be healthy if people saw people with a bit of body fat in their belly area on a video game character?
Of course it's representation. Representation is not only about 'immutable characteristics'. Also, some disabilities make it harder to keep a 'healthy weight' etc.
Why did you make your post tbh?
And it doesn't really matter, we should not only have perfectly healthy people in media lol
OP
OP
You're stepping on all my toes with that conventionally attractive line lol but I'm going to let it slide because I need my beauty sleep
There aren't many protagonists, but plenty of side characters, this took me 5 seconds of googling. I'd argue video games aren't any worse than TV/Movies.
Larger game characters arent going to make the obesity epidemic worse. The only people who can do anything about it at this point are the people who run big sugar and fast food and they profit off of it.
For me it has to do with multiple things.
First of all, I think that diversity of representation is really important when we are talking about immutable characteristics. Like, representing people of different races, ethnicities and sexualities is great, as it normalizes them.
However, I don't think that the same need for representation should be extended to qualities that are up to the person in question and are, essentially, a life choice. For the overwhelming majority of the population, weight is something people are supposed to be in control of. Representing life choices that are very much a mixed bag (if not to say downright unhealthy) doesn't need to be a priority.
I also don't agree wth the premise of the studies I've read. They generally empasize the positive effects on mental health, however being overweight (to say nothing of obesity) leads to proven declines in expected longevity and quality of life. Is going out of your way to convince people that they are fine as they are as opposed to mildly encouraging them to change their habits a worthy trade-off that leads to a net benefit for society? Not so sure about that.
Secondly, I'm just not interested in seeing a reflection of real life on screen. I generally self-insert as characters, and would generally prefer to be someone cooler than a chubby nerdy dude with poor eyesight. I come to media for my dose of better, brighter world ā I actually enjoy somewhat simplistic, "hero's journey" kinds of stories that are filled to the brim with archetypical characters and wish fullfilment tropes, which is why my interest in stuff that's complete opposite of that like TLoU2 is close to nil.
And unlike a lot of people, I'm not ashamed to admit that I feel more sympathy towards characters who are conventionally beatiful than towards those, who aren't. One may see it as undesirable in a supposedly enlightened society, but I'm not convinced that this part of human nature can be altered at all.
this isn't proving the point you think it isThere aren't many protagonists, but plenty of side characters, this took me 5 seconds of googling. I'd argue video games aren't any worse than TV/Movies.
As many have said it's the same reason you don't see too many sculptures of fat people- no one wants to really idolize that shit, and games are largely power fantasies.
There aren't many protagonists, but plenty of side characters, this took me 5 seconds of googling. I'd argue video games aren't any worse than TV/Movies.
Note that most of these characters are done with muscular arms and chiseled chests. None of them are really out of shape like a regular person might be.
Truth is, we need more larger characters in games end off. We need more diversity of all types.
In general as well, we need to move away from body shaming and fat jokes.
In general as well, we need to move away from body shaming and fat jokes.
I don't think it has been mentioned as no-one played the game but Buttercup was a great character in Bleeding Edge.
I don't think anyone is asking for games to be promoting "health at any size" or similar but rather recognising that plus-size people actually exist - especially in games that are meant to be reflecting society as a whole to some extent - and aren't just solely to be used for jokes at their expense.
I never said it would.
Just that it's not akin to other representation questions. Most Americans are overweight, every dad on TV is overweight, and the president is obese.
It's not a historically or presently disadvantaged minority.
You're being ridiculous. If a game gives me the option to play as male or female and I choose female, I'm not being discriminatory of men. If a game gives me the option of being bald or having a pony tail and I choose bald, I'm not discriminating against pony tails.
It's a choice and there is nothing wrong with it.
And honestly it's pretty shitty of you to lump fat in with things like transgender discrimination. You're comparing things you can't change to things you can. There is also nothing unhealthy about being black or transgender or gay or whatever.
I gained 50 pounds over the last 10 years and it negatively impacted my life and my health. I've been working to get into shape and improve these things, so excuse me if I don't want to pretend like being fat is something to be applauded.
In the U.S. the human lifespan is actually decreasing! We're literally killing ourselves with obesity. Body positivity is fine, not shaming fat people...awesome, but we are fooling ourselves that it's ok and something that should be normalized.
So, no, I don't want to play a fat or chubby character.
The funny thing is that 90% of the people in this thread took the safe route and gave you guys the softball nonsense answer of protagonists needing to be fit by virtue with what they do in games and the thread keeps rolling, but the minute someone tries to give a non-hand wave response you guys want to attack them. Makes perfect sense why everyone else went that route now.
NP on the first part. As to the second, you say it's dismissive but if you look around the proof is in the pudding. Look at movies, tv, the CW. Don't you think if people wanted to see these things they'd exist?
Whenever a game with a character creator comes out what happens? Everyone goes out of their way to make the most attractive, unnaturally perfect character they can possibly make. There are always a few who make joke characters and a few more who make normal looking people, but it's mostly idealized beauty. That's the reality we live in. I'd bet money if you polled overweight gamers and asked them to choose between regular Nathan Drake or overweight Nathan Drake, the overwhelming majority would choose regular Nathan Drake.
No your responses are garbage and are looking to pick fights. The U.S. is in a health crisis. Our life spans are shortening. That's not concern trolling those are fucking facts. You can pretend all day long that it's not a problem or people shouldn't care, but that's how we ended up where we are today.
Why is it that whenever you guys are faced with the reality that fat is NOT A GOOD THING you turn into the Iraqi Information Minister and pull the "Nothing to see here" act? These are real, significant problems whether you choose to acknowledge them or not.
i mean i could get into your whole entire post but the fact that you think that normalising people's normal bodies is bad really says everything that needs to be said
also the fact that you are now just so concerned with people's health when originally it's just something you didn't really want to see kind of only reinforces my point about concern trolling to shield yourself when you're called out for being discriminatory
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