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Dongs Macabre

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,284
Being a faith believer here also is not comforting and is outright embarrassing how disrespectful some posters here are. The fact mods let people get away with that pretty much narrows down the hypocrisy of this forum when it comes to equality.
Unless you're living somewhere without a freedom of religion, you should not equating "equality" (presumably in the context of racial equality, gender equality, and sexual equality) and disrespect towards religious belief. The latter is a choice, the former is something over which we have no control and yet are persecuted.
 
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deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,223
Tampa, Fl
Certain shitheads are gleefully rubbing their hands at the anti-mod slant right now, it's important to keep an eye out for bad faith actors trying to stir the pot further.
Their obsession with trying (and failing) to make this site Neo-Nazi GAF 2.0 knows no bounds.

This.

I won't say that there isn't problems with the moderation on this site. There is. Any popular forum is going to have problems and mistakes in moderation.

But the truth of the matter is that some of the people who are shitting all over the moderation of this site don't have our best interests at heart.

Things here need to improve, especially for LGBT and other minority groups. But not everyone who is agreeing with the fact that "moderation needs to improve" are looking to improve the site.

While the moderation has had some failures recently, and historically, this issue reminds me a lot of The Escapist post Gamergate.

Moderation failed that site too. And the yelling and screaming in the wake lead in the wrong direction. The Bad Faith actors won that war and for a long time the Escapist was basically a new Neo Gaf, snuffing out and banning common sense and progressive voices in an effort to represent "both sides."

What happened here recently was bad, but the staff have been trying to course correct.

They are still just people and so will make mistakes.

Let us just be sure we make sure that their course correction will take us to shore instead of to the rocks.
 

Deleted member 16609

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
Harlem, NYC
Unless you're living somewhere without a freedom of religion, you should not equating "equality" (presumably in the context of racial equality, gender equality, and sexual equality) and disrespect towards your religious beliefs. The latter is a choice, the former is something over which we have no control and yet are persecuted.
I'm talking about faith believers in general. Not states that use it to rule over their people.
 

Deleted member 16609

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,828
Harlem, NYC
User banned (3 days): antagonising user, off-topic
The word this site doesn't let you use for the IDF but let you rock it for anyone else. Which is bullshit. Because Trump is not doing anything close to what them scumbags at the IDF are doing(He still a POS). Because of a certain mod(You know who you are) That SweetNicole defended when we demanded answers back then. And never got feedback. Fuck anyone that pays to see Wonder Women. You are a hypocrite if you do. Racist ass Gal Gadot.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
Is this in response to a new incident involving staff?

This specific issue has been discussed in that previous thread well thoroughly, so not sure what you're aiming at specifically with this thread.

Care to elaborate a bit more, or was it just to kind of bring the conversation back since the other one sort of disappeared?

To be fair, the other threads some posters believed it wasn't the right place for everyone to vent their frustrations about the site or mods or whatever, as those threads originally were intended for specific issues. So it's good another thread opened up that everyone can feel comfortable speaking about general questions, concerns or frustrations without being told this isn't about those issues.
 

HammerFace

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,227
Tbf I wish that was the case too, but it's a limitation of the software.

Is there anyway to bring back the colored punishment banners on posts that have resulted in warnings/bannings.

when playing catch up in a thread it makes it kind of difficult to notice them if you're skimming over the whole thread or reading quickly.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
My issue with the forum these days is how easily threads are locked stifling discussion, which is the whole damn point a forum exists!

There was a thread about how Death Stranding comments on the era of Trump, but it was locked because 'there was an OT thread' . Guess what? The discussion didn't continue in there!

Nobody was hurting anyone in that thread, there was no harm in it existing, people were in discussion. Then it was stamped out for no good reason. Threads can get locked for 'going off topic" too, which is maddening. We are human beings writing to each other, sometimes even enjoying ourselves! Why lock threads so easily? Are we trying to save on bandwidth or something? Is this thread going to get locked for "running its course" because "there's nothing else to say"?
 

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
Tbf I wish that was the case too, but it's a limitation of the software.
Could it be done so that if you check the users post history, there would be something indicating what post was the reason for a ban? Like an red exclamation mark there or something?
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
Nope.

But for all the legitimate problems this place has. It's better than all the others. Which is what makes it so frustrating.

Nope. That's not true, because it's all about context.

But you have been banned 9 times... I mean, while some might be questionable, all can't be right? And I mean 9 frikking times.

Can you also post some of the bigotted persons you engaged that wasn't banned?
 

Skel1ingt0n

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,754
My issue with the forum these days is how easily threads are locked stifling discussion, which is the whole damn point a forum exists!

There was a thread about how Death Stranding comments on the era of Trump, but it was locked because 'there was an OT thread' . Guess what? The discussion didn't continue in there!

Nobody was hurting anyone in that thread, there was no harm in it existing, people were in discussion. Then it was stamped out for no good reason. Threads can get locked for 'going off topic" too, which is maddening. We are human beings writing to each other, sometimes even enjoying ourselves! Why lock threads so easily? Are we trying to save on bandwidth or something? Is this thread going to get locked for "running its course" because "there's nothing else to say"?

Co-signed 100%

never ever understood this. Don'tlike a thread? Ignore it. Thread veers off topic a bit? Who cares?

it just makes things boring
 

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,645
It all seems to be an inevitable manifestation of this forum being, on-the-whole, negative as fuck.

I mean, I love the general level of insight here on a range of topics, but geez the general disposition of this place skews heavily towards the miserable, and it inevitably becomes infectious. I am glad this place exists but I have definitely found myself controlling my intake lately for my own well-being.
 
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Latpri

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
761
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory and hostile attacks against staff over a series of posts in this thread. Previously banned for the same rhetoric.
Every other well moderated gaming forum is moderated much more harshly then here, and yet people here are adamant that moderation needs to slacken.

So make of that what you wish.

Moderation doesn't need to slacken, moderators should just be treated with little to no respect and possibly even disrespected regularly in order to keep them from getting a big head. Fawning adoration cultivates authoritarianism.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,352
You guys are ridiculous. Asking for simple accountability on a forum notorious for doing the opposite is apparently too much to ask.

I'm out.
Simple accountability.

Or wanting to know who banned you so you can harass them for doing so.

It's pretty clear what side of the coin you're posting from.

There is nothing to gain from knowing who banned who other than to creating further hostility toward each other.

It's policy, not people that needs to be held to account. What rules are being used in an unfair manner, what instances are people being punished more than others who may be utilising them to get others in trouble.

Your idea will lead to there be no moderation at all because people will be afraid to actually enforce the rules as people *will* go for them no matter if the bans are justified or not.

As always, these threads talk about "transparency" and always turn into "why are you mean to me, I want to know who is mean to me".

We need a collaborative process for how the moderation process works, and input into what the community, rather than the moderation team sees as unacceptable to the community in order to provide more trust in the system.

We don't need to turn this into an us Vs them bullshit fest.
 

RoboitoAM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,117
It all seems to be an inevitable manifestation of this forum being, on-the-whole, negative as fuck.

I mean, I love the general level of insight here on a range of topics, but geez this place skews heavily towards the miserable, and it inevitably becomes infectious. I am glad this place exists but I have definitely found myself controlling my intake lately for my own well-being.
Not to mention the absolute bullshit that happens in any slightly controversial thread. You better have the right opinion, or don't bother posting! Sometimes disagreeing and being polite will still get you banned, so why bother even giving an opinion.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,352
Moderation doesn't need to slacken, moderators should just be treated with little to no respect and possibly even disrespected regularly in order to keep them from getting a big head. Fawning adoration cultivates authoritarianism.
Wtf is this shit.

Respect isn't adoration.

You can disagree, strongly, without being a disrespectful *expletive deleted*.

If you have no respect for others, no respect for community and no respect for people trying to help provide that platform for a community, you may as well pack your bags because you're never going to be a decent member of it.
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
Holy hell, some of the takes here, jesus people, unless you are part of a minority that has been treated badly/unjust here, what are you on about? It is just a internet forum.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
Mods could afford to use warnings more often and not use such lavish bans for things that are a storm in a teacup.

Warnings should be the warning shot that say "any more of this and you're fucked" yet warnings are used in comically terrible ways. If I pull up my list of warnings (2) it would be:

- "Port Begging" when i said "MGS on Switch please Konami"
- "Thread Whining" when I whined about another TLJ thread.

Those were such petty infractions, I'm not sure what the warning was supposed to achieve.

So yeah, more warnings and more shorter term bans for more minor offences. 1 month bans / Perms should be for some pretty bad shit.
 

Jader7777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,211
Australia
It's definitely better than GAF. I think that there's a problem with some ban messages being really vague and generic like "trolling, prior behavior" might as well write "I don't like this post bye"

Some threads are so heated and people basically can't post what they really think, most people just retreat into their OT communities and the discord servers (Best feature of the community IMO) so they can say/do what some consider 'outrageous' on the forum. There are some really nice people here, you just need to get to know them.

I feel this constant tension and drama on the board is not going to improve things. The mods do what they can but they are also criticized a lot. I mean, why even volunteer when your whole job is to be told you're doing it wrong? It just fosters this awful negative passive aggressive environment where no one wants to reach out or engage with anyone publicly.

People who make really long, heart felt, well throughout posts about complicated issues get stomped because people dog pile their replies with lazy drive by reaction gifs and one liners. Those sort of things should be kept for video game releases, shadow drops and hilarious glitches people find- not people being extremely honest and vulnerable about how they feel about things.

Anyway, whatever the powers that be decide I hope things can be more chill and humorous.
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
Mods could afford to use warnings more often and not use such lavish bans for things that are a storm in a teacup.

Warnings should be the warning shot that say "any more of this and you're fucked" yet warnings are used in comically terrible ways. If I pull up my list of warnings (2) it would be:

- "Port Begging" when i said "MGS on Switch please Konami"
- "Thread Whining" when I whined about another TLJ thread.

Those were such petty infractions, I'm not sure what the warning was supposed to achieve.

So yeah, more warnings and more shorter term bans for more minor offences. 1 month bans / Perms should be for some pretty bad shit.

But those has been forum rules since forever since it gives nothing to the discourse... so what to achive? I guess that they want you to know that 1) Port beggining isnt something you should do and 2) thread whining is just whining.
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,735
Could it be done so that if you check the users post history, there would be something indicating what post was the reason for a ban? Like an red exclamation mark there or something?
I mean generally it's their most recent post, give or take, isn't it
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
But those has been forum rules since forever since it gives nothing to the discourse... so what to achive? I guess that they want you to know that 1) Port beggining isnt something you should do and 2) thread whining is just whining.
My point is, is that warnings are used for the pettiest of petty infractions, when they should be used for actual infractions as an actual warning before an incoming ban.

So many times you get banned and it comes out of nowhere.
 

Deleted member 227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
852
Moderation on this site is incredibly biased, and if you say something they don't like or they don't like you, they'll find an excuse to accumulate infractions to get rid of you. Just look at the latest big "mod scandal". Not to mention it's incredibly hard to contest because the mods will look out for each other first before any user, whatsoever.

Just by saying this I probably got a sticky note added to my account to look for things to beat me over the head with.

The public warning labels and ban messages aren't even there for transparency, they are there to scare anyone else in to submission.
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
My point is, is that warnings are used for the pettiest of petty infractions, when they should be used for actual infractions as an actual warning before an incoming ban.

So many times you get banned and it comes out of nowhere.

But warnings are used to point people in the right direction, while being minor stuff just so that the discourse is on point.

And no, I have never been banned here and I can't see how you could be unless you continue doing stuff that is against the ToS.
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
Moderation on this site is incredibly biased, and if you say something they don't like or they don't like you, they'll find an excuse to accumulate infractions to get rid of you. Just look at the latest big "mod scandal". Not to mention it's incredibly hard to contest because the mods will look out for each other first before any user, whatsoever.

Just by saying this I probably got a sticky note added to my account to look for things to beat me over the head with.

The public warning labels and ban messages aren't even there for transparency, they are there to scare anyone else in to submission.

That is bullshit and conspiracy level of thinking.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,298
Moderation doesn't need to slacken, moderators should just be treated with little to no respect and possibly even disrespected regularly in order to keep them from getting a big head. Fawning adoration cultivates authoritarianism.

What the fuck is this? Are you actually saying we should treat mods like shit so they don't think highly of themselves? This is a highschool level take.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Moderation doesn't need to slacken, moderators should just be treated with little to no respect and possibly even disrespected regularly in order to keep them from getting a big head. Fawning adoration cultivates authoritarianism.

you need to calm down about this video game message board that anybody can log out of at any time
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,980
My only main issue with this site is the lack of due process. Usually a ban is easier than talking to the accused and having them dispute the warning or ban with their side of the story, and then passing judgement fairly.

Transparency is an ideal I'd like to see but a simple amount of due process instead of a Judge Dredd mods. I understand sometimes it's best to remove "trouble" but there should be a way for evidence to be analysed while the accused can remain in neutral ground with the ability to put forward their case for an unfair warning or ban.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
The moderation and administration here are miles and miles better than it was on NeoGAF, even if that wasn't exactly a very high bar.
That said, I haven't been regularly reading or posting in the LGBT thread where most of the problems seem to have happened, and where moderation really seems to have been arbitrary, petty, and all around terrible. (From what I've seen these past days)
My own personal experiences with moderation are in Israel threads, where the line of which comparisons and terms are allowed to describe the regime and which are not is all but clear.
Not that it matters to me any more, because every thread consists of news about a heinous war crime, lots of people being apalled by it, a few stans defending it at all cost, until a few warnings/bans are dealt and the thread is locked.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,247
Shy has been done dirty here and I believe the rotting elephant carcass in the room will need to be addressed at some point before it's another dam that bursts. It's a context behind how things within communities can get heated from outsiders and one that not many on the forum are aware of or appreciate.

Moderation doesn't need to slacken, moderators should just be treated with little to no respect and possibly even disrespected regularly in order to keep them from getting a big head. Fawning adoration cultivates authoritarianism.
This isn't it. Whatever this is, is about an Andromeda level distance from what "it" is.

Perhaps it is time to change your posting habits
They did, and the forum is worse off for it imho.
 
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TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,504
As someone who moderated a forum for a small mmo in the past, to hell with it. Knuckleheads fussing about this and that, always being argumentative and such like I was getting a salary. Fussing with trolls nonstop, then when you get a breather from that, it's something else. I quickly dropped that gig and never looked back. I give the mods here credit, some of you never stop and each time something kicks off, they gotta get these meta threads back to back for a couple weeks where random jokers make 1984 comparisons and nazi allusions. Even now, we've got a new "scandal" in the making apparently. It's never ending.

Mods aren't perfect, but they do seem to try to reasonably improve as they go. Not sure where people expect these convos to go or how much more transparent the mods can be without taking it over the top, but kudos to them because as someone who's done it, it isn't worth the headache. I understand people want to feel heard, but I don't think these threadS where everyone complains about every single grievance and slight in one large wave is reasonable.
 
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ProfessorLobo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,523
My point is, is that warnings are used for the pettiest of petty infractions, when they should be used for actual infractions as an actual warning before an incoming ban.

So many times you get banned and it comes out of nowhere.
I mean if you're going to keep port begging and thread whining you're probably going to get banned. And I wouldn't disagree with it.

EDIT: I guess you're talking about a lack of warnings for more serious things, which I kind of get.
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
My issue with the forum these days is how easily threads are locked stifling discussion, which is the whole damn point a forum exists!

There was a thread about how Death Stranding comments on the era of Trump, but it was locked because 'there was an OT thread' . Guess what? The discussion didn't continue in there!

Nobody was hurting anyone in that thread, there was no harm in it existing, people were in discussion. Then it was stamped out for no good reason. Threads can get locked for 'going off topic" too, which is maddening. We are human beings writing to each other, sometimes even enjoying ourselves! Why lock threads so easily? Are we trying to save on bandwidth or something? Is this thread going to get locked for "running its course" because "there's nothing else to say"?

Often locking a thread helps to reduce the number of folks who got banned. There's a good reason for locks at times. Also locks in the case you mentioned are judgement calls.

One thing I"ve noticed is that unlike before, threads like these criticizing the site. are staying open. I expected the mods to lock criticism like they had until the trans community put the mods on blast. To me, this is a sign that at least they understand they've got some problems, and are willing to listen.

I think a concrete solution is needed: my steps

1) More warnings before bans. If someone does something, they should get a warning first, unless it was particularly egregious. You shouldn't go straight to long bans just because the mod was in a bad mood that day, or it's their personal issue.

2) An Appeals systems for bans, where folks who are not mods can suggest overturning or reducing a ban (also increasing though). Have about 20-30 members, 2-3 of which accept appeals. If they feel the ban was excessive, or the poster makes an explanation that they feel was in good faith and mitigates, they can suggest reducing the ban. If they feel like the behavior was particularly bad they can suggest increasing, though this should be rare. In either case, the top level of mods would have the final decision, and certain things would not be appealable (legal liabillity stuff) Appeals should be finished in 48 hours whenever possible, so 1-2 day bans would likely not have any change, but longer bans would.

3) The folks for appeals should be from a cross-section of the site, with preferably 1/2 the members from groups that have traditionally been marginalized here.

4) None of this should jeopardize the true core values of this place. Bigotry and hatred should never be tolerated here, but I do think there needs to be more of an assumption of good faith. In cases where there's some ambiguity, ask folks to clarify a position before reporting/biting their heads off, unless it's a common bad faith tactic.
 

dreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,797
I mean generally it's their most recent post, give or take, isn't it
It isn't in a lot of cases. Most recent example I can think of is Hobbes' ban. I was shocked to see him banned, so I looked through his posts and it was buried a bit far in all of his Death Stranding stuff. It was a legit ban, I'm not disputing it, but I'll admit at first I was worried that it was due to him criticizing the moderation. But I saw that you commented earlier in the thread saying that it's currently a limitation that the ban can't be linked, so it's not something that could be easily implemented at this moment.

I would say that I do agree with having a private page of your own that shows all your bans/warnings would be extremely useful, though. I haven't been warned that I know of, but if I have, I literally would have no way of knowing for what. I'd like to know that sort of stuff. I know that I can sometimes cop an attitude when it comes to reporting things, for example, which I'm trying to get better about.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Moderation doesn't need to slacken, moderators should just be treated with little to no respect and possibly even disrespected regularly in order to keep them from getting a big head. Fawning adoration cultivates authoritarianism.

The only one who deserves disrespect here it's you.

Seriously, some of y'all are fucking crazy, talking like mods goes around targeting you. Guess what? I have yet to be banned here. There may be mistakes that need fixed and it was clearly shown with the recent Trans thread but I bet a LOOOOT of the cases you got banned because you showed your ass. And that's ignoring the multiple bad faith posters here that only appears to throw shit to fuck with the forum, of course.
 
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