I know I'm not the first to say this, but now that JK Rowling's facade of liberal touchy-feely goodness is finally melting away, we can recognize that this is straight up nuts, right? How did she get away with this?
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So those Goblins in Harry Potter are antisemitic right?
- Thread starter Gwenpoolshark
- Start date
I know I'm not the first to say this, but now that JK Rowling's facade of liberal touchy-feely goodness is finally melting away, we can recognize that this is straight up nuts, right? How did she get away with this?
Yes, goblin mythology has been around for centuries.
Goblin
A Goblin is a type of fairy originally from European folklore. The word "goblin" is originally derived from the Greek word "Kobalos," which translates into English as "Rogue" or "Evil Spirit." The word goblin has traditionally been reserved for any ugly fairy that is either mischievous or...
mythology.wikia.org
Not saying they aren't used as an anti-Semitic message. Just that goblins have been that largely for a long time.
Yes, most goblins are. WoW goblins are another pretty nasty one, they even have the NEW YAWKAH accent. Big noses, love gold.
Yes. Have you never heard the phrase "Greedy Jew"?
Goblins from myth like gold, so the greater question is whether goblins of old myth are themselves anti-semetic such as the discussion with orcs being racist.
Yeah, definitely drawing on these stereotypes. It was already kinda iffy in the books, but the movies made it much worse.
Not specifically Greedy Jew but i definitely heard of the term "Jewish lawyer" in the same vein
Does a fantastical creature that's obsessed with money have to connect to a stereotype?
Genuinely asking. Is there something else that makes them linked with Jewish stereotypes?
Genuinely asking. Is there something else that makes them linked with Jewish stereotypes?
Imagery.
Massive noses. Work as bankers, holders of the majority of the wealth. I'd argue the depiction of goblins is what's usually anti-semitic, not the myth. The whole... fat nose, etc, isn't an intrinsic part of the myth. It's the sum of the whole of how they're presented, not necessarily individual characteristics.
I mean, are they specifically linked to Jewish religion or culture in any way in the books? I can't remember
If you're asking if all goblins of fantasy / myth stereotype are anti-semitic, i'll need a history lesson.
If you're asking if all goblins of fantasy / myth stereotype are anti-semitic, i'll need a history lesson.
The similar design to caricature and racists stereotypes of Jewish people
Goblins tend to be portrayed with anti-Semitic stereotype coding regardless of the setting. WoW definitely does it, some D&D settings do it, etc. Not surprising at all that JK would use the same kind of cultural coding that other fantasy settings do.
I'm Jewish, she's not antisemitic. She's using the lazy D&D/Tolkien type that originated with European folklore. Greedy evil bankers are not inherently antisemitic, but those images can be used to support AS tropes.
I mean Daniel Radcliffe is Jewish and he's her Harry Potter, so I don't think she has an issue with it.
I mean Daniel Radcliffe is Jewish and he's her Harry Potter, so I don't think she has an issue with it.
I've not seen the Harry Potter movies but the image in OP is more akin to Nazi propaganda of jews than any goblin I've seen in other media.
Imagery.
Massive noses. Work as bankers, holders of the majority of the wealth. I'd argue the depiction of goblins is what's usually anti-semitic, not the myth. The whole... fat nose, etc, isn't an intrinsic part of the myth. It's the sum of the whole of how they're presented, not necessarily individual characteristics.
Damn. Didn't realize that was a thing and wasn't into Harry Potter that much to pay attention. Yah - that's not a great look at all.
It is a bit suspect, yeah, but I don't think it was deliberate. She just didn't think very hard about it. Dunno how the movies went ahead without changing anything, though. Who can look at that pic in the OP and be like "yep, checks out." FWIW I'd also say the same of most movies/games depictions of orcs as black stereotypes, too.
One of the most frustrating things about the books to me is that even though they "grew up" in a lot of respects, the other species like the house elves and goblins were extremely one-note to the end. They even toyed with the idea of making one of the goblins not greedy but nah, he betrays the gang for money anyway.
One of the most frustrating things about the books to me is that even though they "grew up" in a lot of respects, the other species like the house elves and goblins were extremely one-note to the end. They even toyed with the idea of making one of the goblins not greedy but nah, he betrays the gang for money anyway.
Being honest, this is the first time I see people mention that goblins are an anti-semitic stereotype.
Not here. But I live in a shitty third-world country and hardly interact with people, anyways. In fact, I didn't know the KKK existed until I was in my 20s.
User Banned (3 Months): Dismissing Concerns of Antisemitism and Inflammatory Accusations
Just racists projecting what they want. Sometimes a things just a thing, you don't have to pile your shit on it.
It's worth noting that the Tolkien interpretation of goblins is not wholly rooted in anti-semitic tropes. Racist depictions are largely (imo) the sum of the entire thing and not just an individual characteristic. Artist interpretation often plays a very large part in the racist trope. The movie representation of Harry Potter goblins is wildly anti-semitic and that's largely due to the design of the artists.
Yeah. Hard to put this completely at the feet of Rowling, but those movie goblins have always been *yikes*.
there was a really good tweet about how harry potter had a huge amount of the bigotry that it's author had been known for these days, but I can't seem to find it now, I think the account holder went private due to harassment from her fans.
I bet it's more that JK Rowling's goblins and modern anti-Semitic imagery drew from the same, far older, folkloric inspirations (purposefully or otherwise) since the depiction of goblins as greedy goes way back. It's not a good look though.
In the movies 100%.
Can't remember if the books go into a detailed description like the nose etc, but they are portrayed as being greedy and hoarding money so it's not a big stretch to say the books are also.
You can argue about whether she meant in intentionally, but intent is bit irrelevant because the end result is still anti-Semitic imo
Can't remember if the books go into a detailed description like the nose etc, but they are portrayed as being greedy and hoarding money so it's not a big stretch to say the books are also.
You can argue about whether she meant in intentionally, but intent is bit irrelevant because the end result is still anti-Semitic imo
Yup. Tolkien isn't exempt from this either.
Whens the last time you saw a black elf? In classic fantasy the good guys are all white or whiteish. Even elves and dwarves.
Orcs/Trolls/Goblins/ etc are all deformed and darker.
I don't remember Griphook betrayal being a matter of greed, wasn't it to get back the sword which he felt was stolen by the wizards, and in the end his distrust of the wizards ( based on what we know, probably for good reasons ) ultimatly make him betray them to get that sword.
And he was kind of right, since they didn't really intend to keep their words and give him the sword after the break in, they still needed the sword for the other horcrux.
I might misremember thought.
That being said I was still disapointed by the betrayal, the same way it was disapointing to see the entirety of slytherin still being a one-note till the end, including the battle of hogwarts which would have been a good opportunity to show that no, not all slytherin are evil.
Ah yeah I think you're right, although the whole goblin interpretation of ownership still felt a little gross
Plus they were still teenagers he was basically ready to have murdered
And yeah the Slytherin house stuff is definitely one of the worst examples of one-note writing
