So square can make drastic changes to FF7 in the remake but couldn't be bothered to not make Barrett an ignorant racist caricature? (Read Threadmarks)

[MechaX]

Still impressed and somewhat disappointed by the amount of fellow white people telling others what to be offended about though, even on Era.

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This is kinda what is making me hold my tongue in this topic (this is not aimed at you specifically); I get how people have issues with Barret but saying that this is an easy fix of "oh just don't make him angry" rings all kinds of "oh you can't be angry this way, you have to be angry that way. Don't be angry or offended by [x] but you gotta be offended by [y]."

And believe me, this is shit I have heard too many times before and it is infuriating (and this is coming from someone who pretty much lives in Ferguson, MO and was around for both sets of protests and this mentality got thrown around right and left).

 

[Ra]

The ban note on this one is interesting. I thought Banned (duration) was coded into the note, but this suggests otherwise. Do you mods really have to put in the banned/warned and duration in manually every time?

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Yes we have a group discussion on what goes into every action and what is displayed in every banner, and manually create them based on that.

I just, uh... wait, you saw nothing.

 

[Zen]

Yeah. It really fucked me off, that they didn't fix this bullshit.

Yeah, no.

Barret is not a Mr T clone in the original Japanese FFVII. That was entirely an English translation creation.

In Japanese. He apparently talks and carries himself like Solid Snake.

However because of the English fuckery. He's disgusting racist caricature has carried over to every subsequent piece of FFVII media. I hate it.

They had a chance to set things right with this (re)make. But didn't.

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I played the game once in Japanese and I could never really get over how goofy his JP VA made him. I think outside of the early chapters (1 and 2) John Eric Bentley played him really well in terms of emotional nuance. It may be that since I don't understand Japanese I just wasn't able to pick up on it from Barrett's JP VA. Maybe that more anime-esque demeanor is what endears JP Barrett more to others. But personally, even just looking at Barrett's character design, it's clearly referencing Mr T.

 

[jdmc13]

I know this is an important topic, but couldn't the title be considered a spoiler as it reveals that drastic changes have been made to the original? Could it maybe be changed to like "Barret is a problematic character in the Final Fantasy VII Remake"?

 

[Shy]

I played the game once in Japanese and I could never really get over how goofy his JP VA made him. I think outside of the early chapters (1 and 2) John Eric Bentley played him really well in terms of emotional nuance. It may be that since I don't understand Japanese I just wasn't able to pick up on it from Barrett's JP VA. Maybe that more anime-esque demeanor is what endears JP Barrett more to others. But personally, even just looking at Barrett's character design, it's clearly referencing Mr T.

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Mate, i'm talking about the PS1 FFVII.

And no, he design isn't clearly referencing Mr T. And even if that was, still doesn't make it ok.

 

[AbsoluteZero0K]

I want to add something important that I'm not sure has been mentioned.

There are other ways one can express anger. Sephiroth is angry, for example. But observe how that anger is expressed. Tifa in some cutscenes is angry.

Spoiler

Seph kills her whole town, after all.

yet she expressed her anger in tears (arguably also a problematic female stereotype/trope).

With Barret, it's the kind of anger that is self-destructive. The kind that makes ppl want to retaliate in massive "collateral damage." Like accidentally channelling Bigger Thomas cuz nobody has read Native Son, or Barret would have been a red flag.

He's just loud and obnoxious. When he cites the scripture of the Ancients/Cetra, that comes off as antithetical to his character rather than nuance. Same with his interactions with the "guest character." By the time He's doing more than just shoot at everything and experiences light-hearted moments like asking someone to smile, I already can't stand the character.

 

[Zen]

Mate, i'm talking about the PS1 FFVII.

And no, he design isn't clearly referencing Mr T. And even if that was, still doesn't make it ok.

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I never said it did. I agree with OP and was giving my thoughts on why Barrett is received positively in spite of his stereotyped portrayal.

 

[Furyous]

Honestly his depiction this game isn't half as bad as the original. He's upset but I don't see anything od disrespectful. Did you see his optional scene? That kinda fleshes out his character in the game. All this bad stuff is happening and he has to be strong.

He barely sleeps, is overworked, ,stressed, underappreciated, on a dangerous mission, with a child to raise. What does that sound like to you? He's far more fleshed out thus far this game than all of the last one. You've got an argument about ff7 the original.

 

[Dice]

I want to add something important that I'm not sure has been mentioned.

There are other ways one can express anger. Sephiroth is angry, for example. But observe how that anger is expressed. Tifa in some cutscenes is angry.

Spoiler

Seph kills her whole town, after all.

yet she expressed her anger in tears (arguably also a problematic female stereotype/trope).

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To the SE's credit, both Cloud and Noctis got teary-eyed on their respective journey's.

And there are a lot more offensive things to me than a woman crying...we cry. And maybe it's just me, but part of being a woman I love is that idea that we potentially/generally are more tuned into our emotions; more men should have a cry every once in a while to let it all out if they need. :')

 

[Commander Quackers]

You're joking right? As if having a good point is ever enough. I think the scene has problems but "It makes no sense, he had a good point so they should have listened politely and then been angry at their inability to refute it" is not one of them (and would have been a more ludicrous fiction than anything in the game)

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As they were scrambling to get away from the guy who was yellin, kicking, and getting all in there face do you think those folks were thinking about his argument?

 

[AbsoluteZero0K]

To the SE's credit, both Cloud and Noctis got teary-eyed on their respective journey's.

And there are a lot more offensive things to me than a woman crying...we cry. And maybe it's just me, but part of being a woman I love is that idea that we potentially/generally are more tuned into our emotions; more men should have a cry every once in a while to let it all out if they need. :')

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Yes, FFVX is atypical. I will give that game credit. I don't think I have experienced a mainstream game with that many male characters as focal points who display a wider range of emotions than anger.

Performative gender and video games warrant its own thread, so I would rather not derail here. However, I think the gesture of men crying and suffering mental breakdowns would have been even more potent had characters like Lunafreya and Gentiana not cried.

Barret remind me of Terry crews character in cloudy with a Chance of meatballs. Rather than cry, he sucks the tear back in and gets mad instead.

 

[Shy]

I never said it did. I agree with OP and was giving my thoughts on why Barrett is received positively in spite of his stereotyped portrayal.

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But you're missing still missing the point about his characterisation. In Japanese he wasn't a Mr T clone.

 

[rras1994]

To the SE's credit, both Cloud and Noctis got teary-eyed on their respective journey's.

And there are a lot more offensive things to me than a woman crying...we cry. And maybe it's just me, but part of being a woman I love is that idea that we potentially/generally are more tuned into our emotions; more men should have a cry every once in a while to let it all out if they need. :')

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Yeah my problem with Tifa isn't the fact she cries, it's the weird shakes head tilts she keeps doing and hand movements that I never see actual women do but that keeps doing round Cloud. They come across to me as very unnatural and odd.

 

[Shy]

It is obvious that Barrett is offensive to many . It doesn't matter if you like the character , or think he is funny or the best character in the game . He is offensive .

Personally speaking I've been bothered by an obviously different but similar issue , that in the role of gay characters in games. I still remember the pain I had playing Enchanted Arms as a kid still coming to terms with my sexuality and being confronted with such an offensive caricature of a gay man in the character of Makoto. At the time my friends told me he was "funny" .

It's not hard to step back for a minute and just say "I don't have a stake in this , let the people this affects tell me why it is wrong and how I can help".

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[Lunar Wolf]

Yeah my problem with Tifa isn't the fact she cries, it's the weird shakes head tilts she keeps doing and hand movements that I never see actual women do but that keeps doing round Cloud. They come across to me as very unnatural and odd.

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It's a J-pop thing. Tifa's body language is that of a J-pop idol.

 

[rras1994]

It's a J-pop thing. Tifa's body language is that of a J-pop idol.

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That doesn't really make it better though? It's the same problem

 

[Lunar Wolf]

That doesn't really make it better though? It's the same problem

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I didn't say it did.

But I think it was their way of appealing to the youth or so I would guess.

It's a bit incongruous with her English VA where she sounds so cool and mature.

 

[GongagaSOLDIER]

It is really an odd one. Because on one hand there is a lot of depth to his character and his 'preacher' style attitude does make sense to an extent (the speech he makes to AVALANCHE about taking the load off their shoulders near the start fits.) But it doesn't necessarily excuse some tropes creeping into his character still (including the preacher stereotype itself), even if he isn't as defined by them as he was often in the original. I think the game does well at representation overall (quest givers and other NPCs who are PoC are genuinely embedded in a non-tropey manner throughout, in a way that is rare in the JRPG genre.) So it does seem a shame then that this trope is still here - it would have been nice if they illustrated anger in a different manner that doesn't adhere to stereotype. I still saw enough in Barret's character to really like him overall here - and John Eric Bentley does some great work in delving into the deeper aspects. I don't think there's malicious intent in the way he is written and portrayed but I do still bemoan that there aren't more creatives from BAME backgrounds localising, writing and directing AAA games in the industry overall to minimise falling into some of these pitfalls.

 

[NHarmonic.]

To be fair, Kingdom Hearts main villains for all 3 installments were of dark completion compared to the other characters. Ansem for KH1, Xemnas for KH2, and Xehanort for KH3, All were darker characters and the main villains.

Also here is some official artwork showing how dark Xemnas is

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Let's ignore the other 12 antagonists right there under your nose. Lmao.

 

[Listai]

I've been playing in Japanese because I was really turned off by the English VA.

...the problem is the Japanese VA really taps into the black minstrel stereotype during the more "comedic" scenes.

I was hoping we'd see something similar to XIII where the localisation team more or less re-wrote Sazh into a really endearing human character from the two dimensional minstrel Japanese original.

 

[rras1994]

I didn't say it did.

But I think it was their way of appealing to the youth or so I would guess.

It's a bit incongruous with her English VA where she sounds so cool and mature.

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I've noticed Jesse do it too around Cloud (not seen much of Aerith yet). It's like they are trying to make them look cutesy around the guy they like, I really don't like how it looks, it just seems silly and at odds with the voice acting and even the setting.

 

[Deleted member 23212]

I've noticed Jesse do it too around Cloud (not seen much of Aerith yet). It's like they are trying to make them look cutesy around the guy they like, I really don't like how it looks, it just seems silly and at odds with the voice acting and even the setting.

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They should have just plowed each other and got it over with.

 

[Ging]

Anger is a valid emotion, especially if it is justified. We all have equal rights to all emotions, yet their justification can be a subjective two way highway with the irrational human.

 

[DealWithIt]

Barrett's voice acting and localization are egregious. I dont think Japanese media has a great track record with characters of color, but Tim Rogers' series on the original game suggested that Barret's character was more thoughtful and less tropey in the original Japanese. It's sad that SE doubled down on the bad choices of the original.

My problem with the "big black guy" character is that he's often times used as "street cred" for the white guy protagonist. He's less of an individual and more a merit badge or trophy. Even if they seem friendly, the big black guy still boils down to a sidekick/bodyguard.

I think Chappelle had a joke about not underestimating the one white guy in a group of black friends because he must have done something crazy to prove himself among them (or something to that effect). I can't help but see that dynamic played out across media, from Gears of War to Training Day to Eminem/Dr. Dre

The angry trope may be cliche, but it's this prop status that has always bothered me.

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Good post.

 

[MXultra]

My problem with the "big black guy" character is that he's often times used as "street cred" for the white guy protagonist. He's less of an individual and more a merit badge or trophy. Even if they seem friendly, the big black guy still boils down to a sidekick/bodyguard.

I think Chappelle had a joke about not underestimating the one white guy in a group of black friends because he must have done something crazy to prove himself among them (or something to that effect). I can't help but see that dynamic played out across media, from Gears of War to Training Day to Eminem/Dr. Dre

The angry trope may be cliche, but it's this prop status that has always bothered me.

 

[D i Z]

Your buster ass dismissive interpretation of racial stereotypes ( to the I don't see a problem white folk, and the black folk with their heads up their asses) you know that you're in the wrong. Just stop. Read and learn.

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

Here's the thing, when poc have better representation in games then it'll be a nonissue.

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You can also do aspects of the trait without the execution being problematic. Other media has done it. It is possible. And the solution is simple. Higher PoC writers. Get consultants. You shouldn't be making a big budget game without doing some due diligence.

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Well, that's fair. Here's to hoping it comes sooner rather than later.

 

[Shy]

Barrett's voice acting and localization are egregious. I dont think Japanese media has a great track record with characters of color, but Tim Rogers' series on the original game suggested that Barret's character was more thoughtful and less tropey in the original Japanese. It's sad that SE doubled down on the bad choices of the original.

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Yeah. Watching Tim's series just made me even more fucked off about Barret.

Tim had the best analogy when it comes to Barret.

Japanese = Solid Snake.
English = Mr T.

 

[Romars2021]

Isn't he supposed to be just a darkly tanned japanese guy in the sub? Its just the localizion giving him the mr T voice.
Thats what I always heard.

 

[skillzilla81]

I'd love it if we get to Corel in part 2 or whatever and all of the white miners there talk like Barrett.

Because...why is he the only character in the game to talk like this? lol

 

[Deleted member 925]

It is obvious that Barrett is offensive to many . It doesn't matter if you like the character , or think he is funny or the best character in the game . He is offensive .

Personally speaking I've been bothered by an obviously different but similar issue , that in the role of gay characters in games. I still remember the pain I had playing Enchanted Arms as a kid still coming to terms with my sexuality and being confronted with such an offensive caricature of a gay man in the character of Makoto. At the time my friends told me he was "funny" .

It's not hard to step back for a minute and just say "I don't have a stake in this , let the people this affects tell me why it is wrong and how I can help".

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Fuck man, agreed. Enchanted Arms was such a disappointment to me as well, being queer.

People on here just can't take a step back. There's so many assholes in gaming who hand wave any criticism of their favorite series, even in the face of bigotry and racism.

 

[nel e nel]

and by this guy too



notice his cap and shirt lol

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Wow, he even went with the red, black and green wrist bands. Holy shit.

 

[Ra]

I'd love it if we get to Corel in part 2 or whatever and all of the white miners there talk like Barrett.

Because...why is he the only character in the game to talk like this? lol

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Look, if everyone in Corel speaks like Barrett, I will shut the fuck up and tip my hat.

If everyone else in Corel is localized to be speaking regular American English like those in Midgar, "we have a problem Houston."

Surely they have the foresight to know that would be a problem......

........

..........

 

[Fisty]

Look, if everyone in Corel speaks like Barrett, I will shut the fuck up and tip my hat.

If everyone else in Corel is localized to be speaking regular American English like those in Midgar, "we have a problem Houston."

Surely they have the foresight to know that would be a problem......

........

..........

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Wasnt Corel a coal town? Imagine if they made them talk like West Virginians lol

 

[Yasuke]

Yeah, it's bad. And I actually found myself liking him, in spite of it, but it's still very bad.

I wish they'd modeled him more after someone like Jet from Cowboy Bebop.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Isn't he supposed to be just a darkly tanned japanese guy in the sub? Its just the localizion giving him the mr T voice.
Thats what I always heard.

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No. He was always meant to be black.

 

[Chief Malik]

Wasnt Corel a coal town? Imagine if they made them talk like West Virginians lol

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A bunch of niggas that talk like pusha t?

 

[Ra]

Wasnt Corel a coal town? Imagine if they made them talk like West Virginians lol

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THEM'S FIGHTIN WORDS

 

[Simplegamer]

Let's ignore the other 12 antagonists right there under your nose. Lmao.

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Who is pulling the strings and is behind every possible bad thing in KH1-KH3?

 

[Fisty]

A bunch of niggas that talk like pusha t?

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I was picturing a bunch of people like the Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia

 

[Shy]

Isn't he supposed to be just a darkly tanned japanese guy in the sub? Its just the localizion giving him the mr T voice.
Thats what I always heard.

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[skillzilla81]

Look, if everyone in Corel speaks like Barrett, I will shut the fuck up and tip my hat.

If everyone else in Corel is localized to be speaking regular American English like those in Midgar, "we have a problem Houston."

Surely they have the foresight to know that would be a problem......

........

..........

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Well, that's my another part of my problem with the character. He's literally the only character in the entire game who talks like he does. Why doesn't Marlene talk like her dad? Why didn't he and Dyne share verbal tics?

If all the white people in Corel talk like Barrett, then that'd be hilarious.

Coincidentally, it's super ironic that Anasi was written off the show because "that's not the kind of angry black man american needs right now".

Makes you think.

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Even worse when you consider that Jones himself wrote that monologue (and a lot of the dialogue for the PoCs in the show that entire season).

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Coincidentally, it's super ironic that Anasi was written off the show because "that's not the kind of angry black man american needs right now".

Makes you think.

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Seeing that Jones was gone made me drop the show entirely. Season 1 was absolutely fantastic, but they lost too much talent. Too many good people left the show.

 

[Ra]

Well, that's my another part of my problem with the character. He's literally the only character in the entire game who talks like he does. Why doesn't Marlene talk like her dad? Why didn't he and Dyne share verbal tics?

If all the white people in Corel talk like Barrett, then that'd be hilarious.

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Yeah I've pointed that he's majorly out of context a bunch of times. It isn't just the "angry black man" thing, it's the way he's speaking in the English VA which to me is the MUCH larger issue on which we should focus. How did he get that style of speech and accent? HOW SWAY?

I will hand out a few copies of FFVIIR if the white Corelians speak like Barrett. Book it no lie.

Unfortunately I feel my money is safe.

 

[Fisty]

Yeah I've pointed that he's majorly out of context a bunch of times. It isn't just the "angry black man" thing, it's the way he's speaking in the English VA which to me is the MUCH larger issue on which we should focus. How did he get that style of speech and accent? HOW SWAY?

I will hand out a few copies of FFVIIR if the white Corelians speak like Barrett. Book it no lie.

Unfortunately I feel my money is safe.

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After the climax of Chapter 9, I feel like SE has some interesting ideas for how they are handling the less progressive aspects of the original. We'll see what happens I guess, shame we'll have to wait until probably 2025 to find out

 

[TimeFire]

The ridiculous amount of "uh actually OP is the real racist" posts in this thread lmao

It's really a shame they decided to go with another Mr. T impersonation in the remake english localization. Barret is a genuinely cool character writing-wise.

 

[NineTailSage]

Being black I've noticed a trend in the entertainment department with people having some sort of fetish with Muscular, Black, goofy and angry Black characters.

Examples would be Terry Crews, Barret (FFVII), Mr. T as the OP stated and Cole train from Gears of war.

So yeah I agree with OP. Barret is a horrible black character.

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I agree especially if you look at characters like Barrett from FF7R and Rodin from Bayonetta, both characters talk jive and are gross representatives of real black men in the world! With so few actual ethnic characters in videogames, it does suck that we have to get the view of whatever the developers think resembles black culture.

Racists tropes have to go and with how widespread gaming is and will be in the near future, we can do better and should expect better of the industry...

 

[NHarmonic.]

Who is pulling the strings and is behind every possible bad thing in KH1-KH3?

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Why are we moving goalposts? Come on, Xehanort being dark skinned is just one character trait. It's clearly not at all comparable to something like Barrett.

Again the real "evil" indicator in kh is the yellow eyes, the rest is just reaching.

 

[Dmax3901]

I'd be really curious to see what the voice actor has to say about his time working on this game and whether he had one idea for the character but then Square were like nah more like Mr T... More... little more... that's it! Do that for 30 hours.

 

[NineTailSage]

In 20 years I've never, ever heard someone say Barrett is racist or it's racist that Barret is how he is?

He's very very passionate about being an eco-terrorist, and yes, sure he has hatred towards Shinra.

Also, OP, have you played the original game? Because he has the best backstory in the whole game.

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The racist tropes that are being perpetuated is that of a loud jive talking, big angry black man... Just think about the few stand out male black characters in videogames Dee Jay and Balrog-Steet Fighter, Jax-Mortal Kombat, Rodin-Bayonetta, Barrett-FF7. They all have similar looks and or mannerisms even though they are from different gaming franchises.