So square can make drastic changes to FF7 in the remake but couldn't be bothered to not make Barrett an ignorant racist caricature? (Read Threadmarks)

[ace3skoot]

I understand that angry black man is a racist stereotype, but that doesn't mean a black man can't ever be portrayed in media when the narrative and context calls for such emotions. Barret is genuinely, angry at humanity destroying the planet. And he right to be pissed and frustrated at cloud which is treating it all like just a job. I feel the character has a lot of nuisance and a wide array of emotions he is kind and protective of his friend, clearly loves his daughter. It's not my place to tell anyone if they should or shouldn't be offended, but I personally don't have a problem with the portrayal.

 

[XxLeonV]

Barrett is great to me. I didn't take any offense to it at all. Also, they can't just completely change a character or else they'll get backlash there too. Like when people thought he was way lighter than he should've been. If this wasn't a remake I could see the argument, but I think they did a decent job. He's actually one of my favorite characters in the game.

 

[WarpSpeedMolasses]

Reading more comments in here, it's interest, really interesting. I've already said my piece, but I'm curious to know how many people have played through the entire game and what they think about his character arc in general. This discussion has merit and I don't think his portrayal is free from problems at all, but what saved things for me were:

- They gave his anger purpose. He wasn't angry for the sake of it and you could see it was coming from a place of passion. This translated to multiple scenes where he was actually coming across as someone admirable, a leader, who was able to galvinise the people around him towards a great cause.

- The anger wasn't layered on too thick. Certainly, in the first few chapters of the game he seems fairly one note, but I can think of far more scenes where he shows compassion, leadership or outright wisdom throughout the majority of the game and especially in the last 2/3.

While his portrayal has problems, I don't agree that the game played on it heavily as again, his anger had context and didn't embody his persona. The basis of his character is 100% a stereotype, which is I'd say is more of the problem then how he's handled as a character from the start to the end of the game. But then maybe you could argue that despite the way he looks, his character arc throws preconceived notions of who he's 'supposed' to be out of the window which is a good thing? Doesn't seem so black and white to me.

Good thread and discussion anyway, thanks OP!

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This has more or less been my takeaway. The trailers and demos had me concerned, but I'm finding him to overall be likable as I play the game. He feels empowered, and also like a rock for the group. He's also a parent which is a layer (however minimally explored) that the other chatacters don't have.

With that said, I do wish they gave him some more nuance. Especially at the beginning parts. I definitely see why and how ppls mileage will vary.

 

[RedWolfe]

I mean I get what you're saying but I'm curious to what your solution would be to address this?

My first thought would be to take the character and try of tone down some of the more extreme interactions of it while trying to stay true to the character. The most recent example of this I could think of would be how Capcom handles Carlos's characterization in the remake (which, in my opinion, was really well done).

At the same time though, I feel like that's just kind of how he is, not because he's of a certain race. Just because he falls into a stereotype doesn't mean that he's immune to the portrayal and you could argue that they're the driving force behind the position he's in and the actions he chooses to take. He's part of a group planning extremist missions against a major corporation and he's most likely fell into the position of leader because he exudes that type of carisma. A drastic rewrite of any of the main cast could ultimately cause a few inconsistencies in a story that transcends multiple pieces of media based on the main FF7 plot.

It's a weird problem. Considering the obvious influences in time period when the original game was released compared to now, Barrett is a hard character to get right at this point in time. We already saw this when people were complaining about whitewashing when comparing his old polygonal model to his new model. Redoing the character to not be as stereotypical would require a bit more than a chest reduction and longer socks.

 

[KernelC]

I strongly disagree with this post, OP, like strongly. He is neither racist nor a poor representation. He is by far the most complex character, he's goofy and funny but he is also extremely serious and has a ton of energy, he's a great leader, a great father, a deeply flawed person who thinks before he acts, he acts tough but is super bad with heights, he is the perfect mix of old school JRPG passionate characters with a modern more interesting, less one note key.

So what if he's a black man and is angry/impulsive? Are black characters unable to be impulsive? I feel like this is is just a need to be angry at something, anything. I find him extremely relatable, sometimes you just read the news and grow incresingly desperate, but you have restraint and just angrily sigh, Barret doesn't, he yells he gets mad he even says "don't worry, I got enough hate for Shinra to keep me going for days" in one of the later parts of the game.

Unless you fell for his faccade early on in the game when he's acting tougher than he actually is.

My first thought would be to take the character and try of tone down some of the more extreme interactions of it while trying to stay true to the character. The most recent example of this I could think of would be how Capcom handles Carlos's characterization in the remake (which, in my opinion, was really well done).

At the same time though, I feel like that's just kind of how he is. Just because he falls into a stereotype doesn't mean that he's immune to the portrayal and you could argue that they're the driving force behind the position he's in and the actions he chooses to take. He's part of a group planning extremist missions against a major corporation and he's probably in that position because he exudes that type of carisma. A drastic rewrite of any of the main cast could ultimately cause a few inconsistencies in a story that transcends multiple pieces of media based on the main FF7 plot.

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I agree 100%, every character is much better than in the original, and Barret's personality is kind of the perfect blend between the 90's characters and the new ones. Just because he falls into stereotypes doesn't mean that is all there is to him. If he is to be the leader of the small group of rebels, he has to be extremely charismatic and at the same time, almost like a father figure to everyone.

 

[Doorakz]

I understand where the concerns are coming from and the tropes coming through with his character / story from the original game, but do we always need to "fix" history or characters that have a baseline? Is he not allowed to be angry all the time just because he's black? To me, he's the one who cares most about the planet and taking things to the extreme to save the planet and it comes through his dialogue and the way he carries himself when he is on live camera or talking to Shinra higher ups. (to be clear, I'm up to chapter 9 at this point).

So far I'm loving the game and haven't found many issues. I can see some stereotypes coming through with Barett, Aeirth/Jessie (anime girls) and others, but it's not super detracting from the experience. If we breakdown most stories/characters, you can find these types of throughput lines in most anything. I'd rather not list examples to spark anything, but I don't have major issues with FF7R so far.

 

[ShinNL]

No. We are not doing this today.

The use of racial stereotypes in media is not okay. They do not disappear or become okay just because you give a character imbued with stereotypes a character arc.

This does not mean you cannot like a character that is stereotypical or problematic in some way. It is practically an inevitability of engaging in media created in a world perpetually informed by racism. You can discuss whether or not you think Barrett supersedes his stereotyping, the differences between his old and new characterization, how certain scenes in the games portray him and relate back to those stereotypes, how the voice actor's thought process relates to this, SE's treatment of minority characters as a whole, etc.. This is all valid discussion.

What you cannot do, and will not do so long as this thread is allowed to remain open, is insinuate that people who still have a problem with Barrett despite his characterization are the real racists, or are not black, or try to dismiss or downplay anyone's feelings regarding the stereotypes themselves just because you like Barrett.

The staff post will stand. Discussion will continue on. If you've got any complaints from this point forth, PM them directly to me or other administrators. Do not derail the thread with meta commentary and complaining about moderation, especially since the fact that a lot of you are even still have accounts with how awfully you've approached the subject is a personal blessing by me.

Now enough.

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As a POC myself, but not black, you are wrong. You cannot see beyond colors. Barrett is Barrett, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, yellow, whatever. He's a stereotype for sure, but he's not a racial stereotype. That's what you make out of it. You see this stereotype everywhere! But it's suddenly racist when he's black? No, don't kid yourself that people think "Oh, he's like this because he's black". Do you really think the entire world is against black people and belittles black people?

This attempt to state it as fact and forcing people to acknowledge it does not make it the truth. Even if you censor the entire forum, you're just lying to yourself in this tiny bubble thinking you are right.

The discussion starts at 'but is it really racist?'. Any attempts to dismiss this means you're actively staying ignorant and naive. Any attempts to moderate that, means you're a coward who cannot confront a discussion.

This needed to be said. And you NEEDED to read this.

I sincerely hope you and everyone like you can detach yourselves from constant color association. It's gonna isolate your lives more than whatever is actually going be thrown your way.

And I'm gonna safely assume this is farewell. Bye. (And yeah yeah, I won't be missed)

 

[Wrapped in Black]

Why? I'm just asking. I'm not black and i don't know how a black man feels seeing a Char like Barret.

I'm just asking what has to change for a Char. like Barret to be accepted as a black without feeling racist. Or better, is it possible to potray an angry loud man while being black in media?

I'm in no way diminishing OPs concern.

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[mute]

Funny enough, that's not the only issue I have with that scene. Dude has a fucking minigun for an arm. Honestly, I would be scared of just that. Why is that these main characters dress like they're going to a convention, but everyone else is so... normal?

EDIT: typos

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It is pretty apparent in the game that if you are not a named character time that would have been spent on your appearance or design was spent elsewhere. I'm sure most of the extras in this game are going to be lining up for the GTA VI shoot next.

 

[Deleted member 925]

As a POC myself, but not black, you are wrong. You cannot see beyond colors. Barrett is Barrett, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, yellow, whatever. He's a stereotype for sure, but he's not a racial stereotype. That's what you make out of it. You see this stereotype everywhere! But it's suddenly racist when he's black? No, don't kid yourself that people think "Oh, he's like this because he's black". Do you really think the entire world is against black people and belittles black people?

This attempt to state it as fact and forcing people to acknowledge it does not make it the truth. Even if you censor the entire forum, you're just lying to yourself in this tiny bubble thinking you are right.

The discussion starts at 'but is it really racist?'. Any attempts to dismiss this means you're actively staying ignorant and naive. Any attempts to moderate that, means you're a coward who cannot confront a discussion.

This needed to be said. And you NEEDED to read this.

I sincerely hope you and everyone like you can detach yourselves from constant color association. It's gonna isolate your lives more than whatever is actually going be thrown your way.

And I'm gonna safely assume this is farewell. Bye. (And yeah yeah, I won't be missed)

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This ain't it. If anything, you're actively staying ignorant and naive.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

It is pretty apparent in the game that if you are not a named character time that would have been spent on your appearance or design was spent elsewhere.

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Seriously. Overall, none of the NPCs except the topside Shinra executives feel like they were actually designed to exist in Midgar. It's so weird. It's like they just pulled the slum NPCs out of a generic box of character designs they've been recycling through FFXIII and FFXV.

 

[Wealthydave3]

Yeah I don't know what you're smoking OP. I'm black and am perfectly fine with Barret portrayal. He is not this angry black guy trope, but rather a passionate person trying tk get a point across regardless of the sacrifice. And he may seem angry at times because others don't have the same passion as him, even to other Avalanche members. And under all that passion is a fun and lovable character.

Barret is the funniest character in the game hands down. Aerith is second but by a mile.
Whenever my parents are in thr room and Barret is in the party they always observe and laugh at his comedy. They all say he is their favorite character and can relate to him cause as a culture, comedy is huge for us. We love comedy and Barret is just a funny guy with a lot of misunderstood passion. So please don't look at Barret through 1 dimensional lens he's much more than that.

 

[PortisheadBiscuit]

I really don't get non black people's obsession with Mr. T, like what resonated about him for you to make shitty clones of him in your stories?

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The first thing I thought was Mr. T lol

 

[Deleted member 41520]

blood of the planet speech during the opening level cracks me up due to how bad and on the nose it is. You kinda kill the metaphor when you explain it right away before the player even has the chance to think about it themself.

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One of those instances where the writing, oddly, lands better in prose than when voice acted

 

[Mesoian]

As a POC myself, but not black, you are wrong. You cannot see beyond colors. Barrett is Barrett, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, yellow, whatever. He's a stereotype for sure, but he's not a racial stereotype. That's what you make out of it. You see this stereotype everywhere! But it's suddenly racist when he's black? No, don't kid yourself that people think "Oh, he's like this because he's black". Do you really think the entire world is against black people and belittles black people?

This attempt to state it as fact and forcing people to acknowledge it does not make it the truth. Even if you censor the entire forum, you're just lying to yourself in this tiny bubble thinking you are right.

The discussion starts at 'but is it really racist?'. Any attempts to dismiss this means you're actively staying ignorant and naive. Any attempts to moderate that, means you're a coward who cannot confront a discussion.

This needed to be said. And you NEEDED to read this.

I sincerely hope you and everyone like you can detach yourselves from constant color association. It's gonna isolate your lives more than whatever is actually going be thrown your way.

And I'm gonna safely assume this is farewell. Bye. (And yeah yeah, I won't be missed)

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Is this a Pasta?

Are we pretending like Barrett isn't Clubber Lang by way of Rick Ross?

Are we ACTUALLY considering that being an ecoterrorist and loving your daughter is enough to differentiate from being a very obvious racial stereotype?

I honestly wonder if people are going to get as dismissive when it's time to put Dyne and Cid under the microscope in part two considering they are pretty obvious caricatures of poor white trash.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I sincerely hope you and everyone like you can detach yourselves from constant color association. It's gonna isolate your lives more than whatever is actually going be thrown your way.

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...Huh. Do you have any idea how it is to live as a minority?

 

[Deleted member 4976]

As a POC myself, but not black, you are wrong. You cannot see beyond colors. Barrett is Barrett, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, yellow, whatever. He's a stereotype for sure, but he's not a racial stereotype. That's what you make out of it. You see this stereotype everywhere! But it's suddenly racist when he's black? No, don't kid yourself that people think "Oh, he's like this because he's black". Do you really think the entire world is against black people and belittles black people?

This attempt to state it as fact and forcing people to acknowledge it does not make it the truth. Even if you censor the entire forum, you're just lying to yourself in this tiny bubble thinking you are right.

The discussion starts at 'but is it really racist?'. Any attempts to dismiss this means you're actively staying ignorant and naive. Any attempts to moderate that, means you're a coward who cannot confront a discussion.

This needed to be said. And you NEEDED to read this.

I sincerely hope you and everyone like you can detach yourselves from constant color association. It's gonna isolate your lives more than whatever is actually going be thrown your way.

And I'm gonna safely assume this is farewell. Bye. (And yeah yeah, I won't be missed)

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No, you won't be missed.

Good fucking riddance.

 

[Bossking]

To me, it's more weird that people are supposed to think Barret is angry AND stupid. He's clearly not an idiot. Even in the scene where he's preaching his message to a disinterested Cloud, as funny as Cloud's reaction is, that's not an indicator that Cloud is smart and cool and Barret is a sanctimonious idiot. Barret is fucking right, and Cloud is an asshole who's just too cool to care about things like oppression and world-destroying pollution. Like, yeah, Barret's angry as hell. Because Shinra is destroying the world and everyone he cares about and shitty people like Cloud won't do anything about it without getting paid. Cloud is as bad AS Shinra at this point in the game. Barret might be VERY eager to broadcast his message, but Barret genuinely fucking cares about the world and the slums and his daughter and everyone around him, and being peaceful and quiet isn't going to do anything to fix that. He's very straight-to-the-point but that doesn't make him stupid.

Though this is all just coming from his depiction in FFVII Remake. Yeah, he's just straight up Mr. T in the original and definitely portrayed as dumber. But remake Barret is great. He's not a bad character because he's angry. Cloud is a bad PERSON because he ISN'T angry. And honestly, we could all stand to be a little more angrier like Barret about our current situation.

 

[Deleted member 56306]

Who gives a fuck that trope is positive? I guess I do? Here are some other "positive" tropes on the site.

Bald, Black Leader Guy: The man in charge is bald and black.
Black and Nerdy: A black character is also very smart to a nerdy degree.
Soul Brotha: A black character who is amazingly cool, always calm and in general "groovy."

Wow, he can't be bald, smart, or cool and calm. What can he even be? Someone in this very thread said he should be more like Dutch from Black Lagoon, the more positive trope right? But that would fall under Bald, Black Leader Guy - no one even fucking noticed. And I've already posted a slew of other stereotypes from the same site that he could fall within - in my post where I said that he to me transcends all of them, as well as his earlier depictions in the remake. It's why I said I applaud them because it doesn't seem like they're shying away from what they created - they've made him more than just that.

The Kingdom come stuff? I got asked for receipts, and I gave them - that's it.





Best of all, the events in the game justify Barrett's actions and mannerisms - even the main character doesn't buy into what he's saying until later in the game. We know he's spitting truth against a world that doesn't care to listen. That's just angry black man? Naaaah, I hate how you guys see a black man leading the charge as just an angry nigga but I'm of the opinion that there is no immaculate creation - especially when you consider the issues Asian media has in creating black characters. I think they've improved on the initial creation in spite of his flaws as a character and elevated him - and that's great! Progress!

@TinyHipster, don't worry man I won't @ you for not being black here I appreciate what you're saying and I understand it. But looking at the tropes provided I genuinely think that if you were to somehow miraculously avoid using ALL of the tropes there - bam you've now made Black characters even narrower. I had a better response but I accidentally deleted the wrong tab. You know what I felt through his character, aside from the empathy he shows and his realer moments? It's that maybe you should actually listen to the angry black dude - because he's speaking facts. We're always walking on eggshells to make sure that our arguments are heard but toe the line to make sure that it's palatable for the wider society, that we don't lose our cool for fear of the message being lost. That's why I love his character. I can think of a multitude of "angry white dudes" running the show in games but they're not just whittled down to the bone with that, motivations are considered there, why not here?

K.Jack, I don't think you have to agree - I'm just passionately defending my position on this - I went back to read some of his old dialogue and he already spoke in broken english/ebonics. Aside from straight up making him speak patois or the queen's there wasn't much wiggle room - so instead they've broadened his character whilst retaining his flaws. Admirable. I don't think of him as an ignorant, racist caricature.

Anyway, I just posted because as soon as I saw the Tvtropes link, I read through the index and I read through the actual pages and man... Did you guys actually click the links? That ain't it.

Guess I'll go watch this Coonskin film and see if I'm worth listening to or not.

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Somehow you are still stuck on thinking that the problem is fitting into the tropes when it's been explained multiple times that this is not the case. Like no shit, not all tropes are bad and that's why we are calling this specific trope a stereotype. The problem is this particular portrayal sucks. Just because they've progressed on making him broader than just the stereotype does not erase it's existence. Him being angry is not the problem - him singing a faux negro spiritual going up the stairs and acting the way he does and sounding the way he does is the problem.

Like we have better examples of righteously angry black men all over the media and despite them fitting into tropes they don't get these threads because they don't suck.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Barret was absolutely amazing in FF7R.

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Yep

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Somehow you are still stuck on thinking that the problem is fitting into the tropes when it's been explained multiple times that this is not the case. Like no shit, not all tropes are bad and that's why we are calling this specific trope a stereotype. The problem is this particular portrayal sucks. Just because they've progressed on making him broader than just the stereotype does not erase it's existence. Him being angry is not the problem - him singing a faux negro spiritual going up the stairs and acting the way he does and sounding the way he does is the problem.

Like we have better examples of righteously angry black men all over the media and despite them fitting into tropes they don't get these threads because they don't suck.

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That's a great clip and example. The actor nailed that scene with Anansi.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Unless you fell for his faccade early on in the game when he's acting tougher than he actually is.

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The issue people have is that that facade is deeply steeped in racist stereotypes and imagery.

You see this stereotype everywhere! But it's suddenly racist when he's black?

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Yes, it is racist because it's a very very common depiction of black people in media and based on stereotypes rooted in overt and diet racism.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

That's a great clip and example. The actor nailed that scene with Anansi.

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Orlando Jones is a fantastic actor. I still can't believe they fired him.

 

[LowParry]

Barret can't seem to catch a break. First he was blamed on being whitewashed. Now we got this. But this particular complaint I agree about. But he's also a great character for this game that I find to be my favorite of the group.

As a whole, is this just Japan's view on black men though? I would hope there are examples of Japan doing the opposite with good black representation in either games or media.

 

[Mesoian]

That's a great clip and example. The actor nailed that scene with Anansi.

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Coincidentally, it's super ironic that Anasi was written off the show because "that's not the kind of angry black man american needs right now".

Makes you think.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Coincidentally, it's super ironic that Anasi was written off the show because "that's not the kind of angry black man american needs right now".

Makes you think.

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Him being let go was extremely dissapointing and a hype killer for the show.

 

[munchie64]

I certainly hope that now we've moved past the introduction, there'll be no need for stereotyping in the sequels and they continue the positive character work with him.

 

[Deleted member 23893]

I mean....it's the voice actor's and directions fault right?

I don't think anything he actually does or says script wise is particularly problematic. He puts on a ham fisted tough guy persona when he's trying to put across how passionate he is about the cause, which to me says the "angry guy" thing he's putting on is text and intentional on his own part. Deep down its not him, he's just trying to be the leader he thinks his pocket of Avalanche needs. Character wise he's quite layered even if just Remake is taken into consideration.

But the voice acting across the board reminds me of Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder. I know the VA is also black, but man it comes across as a bad caricature at many points.

 

[Mungan]

This thread has been a long time coming.

Godspeed op

 

[AuthenticM]

Orlando Jones is a fantastic actor. I still can't believe they fired him.

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and by this guy too



notice his cap and shirt lol

 

[-Tetsuo-]

He is basically RDJs Tropic Thunder character except its serious.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

I mean....it's the voice actor's and directions fault right?

I don't think anything he actually does or says script wise is particularly problematic. He puts on a ham fisted tough guy persona when he's trying to put across how passionate he is about the cause, which to me says the "angry guy" thing he's putting on is text and intentional on his own part. Deep down its not him, he's just trying to be the leader he thinks his pocket of Avalanche needs. Character wise he's quite layered even if just Remake is taken into consideration.

But the voice acting across the board reminds me of Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder. I know the VA is also black, but man it comes across as a bad caricature at many points.

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I'd say it's largely the voice direction fault. The voice actors gotta work with what he's given.

 

[the magical kitsune]

As a POC myself, but not black, you are wrong. You cannot see beyond colors. Barrett is Barrett, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, yellow, whatever. He's a stereotype for sure, but he's not a racial stereotype. That's what you make out of it. You see this stereotype everywhere! But it's suddenly racist when he's black? No, don't kid yourself that people think "Oh, he's like this because he's black". Do you really think the entire world is against black people and belittles black people?

This attempt to state it as fact and forcing people to acknowledge it does not make it the truth. Even if you censor the entire forum, you're just lying to yourself in this tiny bubble thinking you are right.

The discussion starts at 'but is it really racist?'. Any attempts to dismiss this means you're actively staying ignorant and naive. Any attempts to moderate that, means you're a coward who cannot confront a discussion.

This needed to be said. And you NEEDED to read this.

I sincerely hope you and everyone like you can detach yourselves from constant color association. It's gonna isolate your lives more than whatever is actually going be thrown your way.

And I'm gonna safely assume this is farewell. Bye. (And yeah yeah, I won't be missed)

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Scurry back to gaf, I hear they're what you're looking for: bunch of white dudes calling black people ignorant and naive while dismissing racism as overblown hyperbole.

I do wonder how many posters ITT handwaving op's concerns or explaining Barrett to him ("akshually, he is (...)") are not black.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I certainly hope that now we've moved past the introduction, there'll be no need for stereotyping in the sequels and they continue the positive character work with him.

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The further you get in FF7 the less relevant Barret becomes.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Barret can't seem to catch a break. First he was blamed on being whitewashed. Now we got this. But this particular complaint I agree about. But he's also a great character for this game that I find to be my favorite of the group.

As a whole, is this just Japan's view on black men though? I would hope there are examples of Japan doing the opposite with good black representation in either games or media.

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What I think happened here is both SE and the localization team found themselves stretched between wanting to modernize Barrett and wanting to stay faithful to the original game. So thanks to the advancements in technology and digital acting they could give a lot more emphasis to Barrett's realistic human elements and his dramatic flare and they thought that goes far enough to separate him from the caricature. But they still play the Mr. T performative shit totally straight because that's who he was in the original game - a slightly complex stereotype. I'm sure the work for the VA would have been much easier, and probably would have been much more appreciated - if he didn't feel the need to stick so closely to those original overtly racist design elements. If he was just allowed to make Barrett sound like a normal human being, who gets heated and angry about important shit sometimes like normal people do, the character would be much better received among the critical folks.

And I'm gonna safely assume this is farewell. Bye. (And yeah yeah, I won't be missed)

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At least something you said in that shit tier post was right

 

[roflwaffles]

Barret seems pretty authentic to the original, and is the most three dimensional character in the game.

Square is making changes to the plot, not the characters. I'm fine with the former.

 

[munchie64]

The further you get in FF7 the less relevant Barret becomes.

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This ain't that though. That said, next game for him will hopefully be really good no matter what.

 

[D i Z]

Some people are saying that SE needed to consult with a PoC to write or consult on how Barret should be acting or portrayed. But there are already several people of colour in this thread that said they didn't find the portrayal offensive. So are those people who don't find him offensive in the wrong for believing that?

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Oh for fs

 

[Deleted member 56306]

Barret seems pretty authentic to the original, and is the most three dimensional character in the game.

Square is making changes to the plot, not the characters. I'm fine with the former.

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The one where the localization made changes to Barrett? Interesting.

 

[Mesoian]

Barret can't seem to catch a break. First he was blamed on being whitewashed. Now we got this. But this particular complaint I agree about. But he's also a great character for this game that I find to be my favorite of the group.

As a whole, is this just Japan's view on black men though? I would hope there are examples of Japan doing the opposite with good black representation in either games or media.

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I feel like, as time goes on, more and more Japanese creators are having "the talk" when it comes to black characters in their media. I am reminded of "Our Promised Neverland" and sister Krone.

Krone, in the manga, is a cross between the Mammy stereotype and the terminator. A massive hulking black woman bent on furthering her position on the ranch through physical domination and scheming. It's...honestly embarrassing.

The anime softens her a lot, pulling back on a lot of the more racist physical tropes, but it can't undo it all.

Barrett is the same way. It's clear they did a lot to pull him away from being a bumbling, screaming, object of visual oppression that's supposed to be hard to be around, but they couldn't fix it all. The scene on the train is straight up just a large black man forcing white people to pearl clutch, as if it was some sort of thing to find pride within. They don't get it. It's reaffirming what bigots believe black people do.

That being said, Barrett does have it's moments and he's not completely two dimensional, but moments of empathy or pathos doesn't suddenly justify all the racist shit you did prior. They have at least 3 more games to try and rectify this and make Barrett more rounded, but they need to focus less on the Mr. T nature of his past and more on how rash decision making in the face of actual irresponsible evil can be sobering.

 

[Mesoian]

The further you get in FF7 the less relevant Barret becomes.

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This is less due to Barrett''s character and more because the Huge Materia plotline is actually dogshit. It's something they can easily fix in...what I would assume would be part 3 of the remake series.

 

[Lost Knight]

Barret's actions made sense within the context of the story, I'm saying this as person of color.

 

[Chief Malik]

I feel like, as time goes on, more and more Japanese creators are having "the talk" when it comes to black characters in their media. I am reminded of "Our Promised Neverland" and sister Krone.

Krone, in the manga, is a cross between the Mammy stereotype and the terminator. A massive hulking black woman bent on furthering her position on the ranch through physical domination and scheming. It's...honestly embarrassing.

The anime softens her a lot, pulling back on a lot of the more racist physical tropes, but it can't undo it all.

Barrett is the same way. It's clear they did a lot to pull him away from being a bumbling, screaming, object of visual oppression that's supposed to be hard to be around, but they couldn't fix it all. The scene on the train is straight up just a large black man forcing white people to pearl clutch, as if it was some sort of thing to find pride within. They don't get it. It's reaffirming what bigots believe black people do.

That being said, Barrett does have it's moments and he's not completely two dimensional, but moments of empathy or pathos doesn't suddenly justify all the racist shit you did prior. They have at least 3 more games to try and rectify this and make Barrett more rounded, but they need to focus less on the Mr. T nature of his past and more on how rash decision making in the face of actual irresponsible evil can be sobering.

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I was literally talking about getting into this manga but no way in hell I'm reading this

 

[Mesoian]

I was literally talking about getting into this manga but no way in hell I'm reading this

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TO BE FAIR, it gets better. There are a number of black and spanish characters introduced later who aren't ugly stereotypes and are very important to the story.

Like I said, it felt like someone had, THE TALK, with the creators. But this is pretty common, especially in shonen manga.

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah I don't know what you're smoking OP. I'm black and am perfectly fine with Barret portrayal. He is not this angry black guy trope, but rather a passionate person trying tk get a point across regardless of the sacrifice. And he may seem angry at times because others don't have the same passion as him, even to other Avalanche members. And under all that passion is a fun and lovable character.

Barret is the funniest character in the game hands down. Aerith is second but by a mile.
Whenever my parents are in thr room and Barret is in the party they always observe and laugh at his comedy. They all say he is their favorite character and can relate to him cause as a culture, comedy is huge for us. We love comedy and Barret is just a funny guy with a lot of misunderstood passion. So please don't look at Barret through 1 dimensional lens he's much more than that.

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♥️

I really like this and share your overall feeling here.

I'm not going to pretend like there aren't a LOT of poorly written or stereotypical portrayals of black characters, amongst many other cultures and identities being minimized or boxed in, but it's important to view things in the most humanistic and kind way we can.

In this way, I feel like it actually is a little disingenuous to complain about Barret being 'angry' or 'tough'. Like, if that was ALL he was, that would be pretty shit I agree. But he's so much more than that, he's someone who is in deep pain about the situation around him, and he's guided ultimately by love, and acts with strength and loyalty and passion. Is he not allowed to be angry because he's black? Again, he's so much more than that, and I hope we don't straddle the wrong part of the line, intending to defend against racism, but instead further putting limits on what black characters are allowed to be.

♥️

 

[Lotus]

The anime softens her a lot, pulling back on a lot of the more racist physical tropes, but it can't undo it all

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The anime made her worse you mean, I dunno where the fuck that doll came from

 

[Commander Quackers]

Why is it that barrett is the only character that speaks like hes in and 80's blaxploitation movie in all of migar?

 

[APZonerunner]

Just wanna preface this by saying: I'm black. I'm not saying this makes me an authority, obviously, but I think it's relevant when posting an opinion on the topic. Anyway... I like Barret in FF7R. His original localization was stereotyped in ways the original Japanese text wasn't, and the Japanese text was already iffy in places (though vastly improved on beta content left on the disc, like a cut moment where kids in Sector 7 shout "Gorilla!!!" when Barret storms by, BUT...

I think in Remake they get it way more right than I anticipated. I was dreading this character in this game, but he's fine. In fact, he's one of the best members of the cast. He's mad, he has a temper, but he's also one of the deeper characters. The whole point of Barret - in both the original game and the remake - is to contrast his ideology with Cloud, who is apathetic about many things and doesn't really have an ideology. Barret's viewpoints are challenged and deconstructed, and over the course of the game he realizes he's been too extreme in places - which is part of an underlying theme in FF7 that not everything is black & white and there are shades of grey (IE hurting the planet is wrong, but Mako energy has helped people, even saved lives, so where's the balance?)

Anyway. I really like him in the remake. I think the preacher-style voice is a choice that works, though obviously it's one that can carry uncomfortable connotations... and as somebody British, I admit those connotations are more alien to me. But it also makes sense because Barret is a preacher type, for all the good and ill that brings. This is the point about him... he's well-read, he's articulate - when he wants to be. When you start to learn about the Ancients, he recites their scripture. When you walk into a giant library, he's visibly excited at it. So he's not just two-dimensional.

I also think the relationship with Avalanche is really different in this game. They've pulled back on the abuse and anger. He was always angry and snapping at Jessie, Biggs and Wedge in the original, but in the remake they give him a softer relationship with them, which, again, is an improvement. There's a tender side to him here that emerges much more quickly - in part I'm sure due to the story being split as it is. I also think if people have only played the demo or not played that far, that'll colour their impressions here, because Barret softens and grows as the story goes on. In that first Mako Reactor mission it's all over-the-top, for instance, but it becomes pretty clear that is Barret putting on a front.

I think he's improved enormously on every level. There's totally still problematic aspects of it, but I have loads of time for how he's depicted and written here.

 

[Dyno]

I can't say I find him scary or particularly angry, his anger is entirely justified, its not like its just coming from nowhere. If anything I find him quite lovable. He's always been the one with the biggest heart to me anyway. Dudes story is sad.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Why is it that barrett is the only character that speaks like hes in and 80's blaxploitation movie in all of migar?

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Well, Barret isn't FROM Midgar, but somehow I doubt the people from Corel talk like he does either. He really does stand out in a weird way since there are basically no other black people in the setting.:/