So square can make drastic changes to FF7 in the remake but couldn't be bothered to not make Barrett an ignorant racist caricature? (Read Threadmarks)

[fourfourfun]

Didn't Barrett have a really terrible translation originally? Like the original text had him much more calm headed and measured, while still direct and focused, but the English translation turned him into a Mr T-alike. I personally was surprised to see that be taken forward as the persona for this game.

A lot of the translation of that game was pretty bobbins. The step up from FF7 to FF8 was tangible.

 

[Truly Gargantuan]

In what fucking way is he a racist trope? Should all black characters in video games be some mild mannered person to not be racist?

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Why do people lose all sense of nuance when discussing things online. So because one aspect of the character is stereotypical then what those making the criticism want is the exact opposite, right? Of course that's what it is! There's no way they couldn't be asking for just a bit more of a measured approach, right? NO OF COURSE. obviously they want black characters to be NEVER BE ANGRY.

Get the fuck out of here.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

While I could see that people still see his character as the same as it was in the original, I do think they did a great job of fleshing out his character into something much better than it was.

In the remake he is actually not only quite philosophical but is also really well read up on history and often is the only one that knows about things compared to the rest of the cast.

They also show a lot more of his genuine side and show him playing up to his public persona of being a passionate rebel. Him preparing to make a speech to the cameras before the airbomber fight is a prime example.

In the original he felt more like someone running on emotion and while he is still very, understandably, emotional, he is also a lot more strategic and logical in how he presents himself and for his reasoning behind his actions in the remake.

 

[Chief Malik]

Nomura pretty much threw the localization team under the bus.

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Nomura the same guy that makes all the bad guys in kh dark skinned.

 

[FRS1987]

............ You answered your own question

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I think you're looking at it as he's racist because he's black and he's angry rather than he's an angry and happens to be black. Ironically he's only angry when mentioning Shinra but guarded when he first meets Cloud.

Would you have felt the same if he were of a different race but kept his voice and personality the same or would you say he's "acting black"? He doesn't seem racist to me and you see that with his personality and character development and we haven't even seen his backstory yet.

 

[Deleted member 64666]

To be fair they weren't affected as badly personally by Shinra as Barret was.
It's not at all a personal grudge for them the way it seems

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Hmmm... We have clearly not played the same game?

I guess one can say that everyone deals with trauma differently, but it's a bit peculiar that Barrett is made fun for his approach with dealing with situations. Even in the original, he's depicted as a so-so leader for being loud, and a clown despite himself. His claim as a leader is quickly dismissed by the super white, virginal and pure Aerith. I mean it's a bit problematic.

I'm glad they removed the part where Aerith's mom tells him he is a terrible father in the OG.

 

[julia crawford]

I think this is Barret's single best piece of dialogue that illustrates his worldview succinctly:

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This tweet legit got me even more interested in this game. Makes the game very contemporary.

 

[Thera]

I won't judge because I didn't play the game.
For context, I am a white french.

But even with that, the first time we saw him "talk" on a trailer, I cringe :


But I saw no one bringing it up, so, with my context, I thought it was just me being the SJW I am often insulted of.

I'm not going to buy the Japan excuse at all.

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Excuse? Nobody can excuse this behavior.
The fact they are a racicst and homophobic country isn't an excuse but definitively an explanation.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Nomura the same guy that makes all the bad guys in kh dark skinned.

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Now that one's a bad take.

 

[Truly Gargantuan]

This tweet legit got me even more interested in this game. Makes the game very contemporary.

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Barret is full of lines like that. He shines in this game despite his stereotypes.

 

[Chief Malik]

Now that one's a bad take.

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Okay

 

[The Unsent]

Yeah and Remake Barret curses just as much if not more than original. It's just that they don't censor the words anymore. The censor thing wouldn't work so well with real voice acting as censor beeps are usually served for comedy purposes. It wouldn't work during an intense moment where Barret is cursing someone out and it's just bleeps.

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I think he definitely comes across as ruder in the original. Although I'm not using this as excuse if you still find the new one too stereotypical.

 

[Daysean]

Hmmm... We have clearly not played the same game?

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I really don't get what you mean by this
I'm just saying Shinra did a lot more personally to Barret to make him that more angry at them than those other 4
You could make a point for Tifa, but definitely a lot more than the other 3

 

[Mimosa]

I think you're looking at it as he's racist because he's black and he's angry rather than he's an angry and happens to be black. Ironically he's only angry when mentioning Shinra but guarded when he first meets Cloud.

Would you have felt the same if he were of a different race but kept his voice and personality the same or would you say he's "acting black"? He doesn't seem racist to me and you see that with his personality and character development and we haven't even seen his backstory yet.

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His voice + personality combo is racist, yes.

The fact that he is also undeniably coded as black makes it worse.

This is a separate issue from his personality/character developement.

I don't know your race or background, but he doesn't seem racist to you - congratulations.

To a lot of people of color here (myself included), his depiction stings. It's a stain on an otherwise amazing game. I don't care if he ends up being likeable (and I did end up finding him endearing, as I've said in a previous post). Doesn't change the fact that he heavily pulls from hurtful black stereotypes that just...shouldn't be there.

 

[The Unsent]

I won't judge because I didn't play the game.
For context, I am a white french.

But even with that, the first time we saw him "talk" on a trailer, I cringe :


But I saw no one bringing it up, so, with my context, I thought it was just me being the SJW I am often insulted of.

Excuse? Nobody can excuse this behavior.
The fact they are a racicst and homophobic country isn't an excuse but definitively an explanation.

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Barrett I find is the worse in that opening chapter because of how he calls Cloud a doggy, and it's really cringey.

 

[Lotus]

When I first heard him in the trailers, I initially felt quite uncomfortable with the voice direction. For years, I'd heard about Barrett being this Mr. T-esque character, which I finally confirmed for myself by playing the original earlier this year. Haven't played much of it, but a lot of Barrett's dialogue in it felt pretty embarrassing to read through at times. So to play the remake, and see that they were continuing with that Mr. T characterization, made me feel conflicted. Here I got to play as a black character, which is always rare as hell to see myself represented in the first place, and my first impression of him is that he seems to be little more than a caricature.

Fortunately as I played more of the game, I got to see that he does have actual depth, that there was far more to him than just his yelling. That he's actually very likable and charming, and has more than his fair share of tender moments. He can also be very insightful as well. Honestly I thought I was gonna come out of the game feeling really incensed about his character, but I've been pleasantly surprised overall. Not enough to pretend that there's literally nothing problematic about him like some here (Like c'mon guys....), but enough where I wouldn't label him as a caricature and call it a day. Him being far more fleshed out did wonders for him despite the stereotypical aspects of his character.

 

[Eeyore]

This tweet legit got me even more interested in this game. Makes the game very contemporary.

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There's some class based commentary from Barret as well. A lot of the environmental messages from the original game still resonate today.

 

[jett]

Barret is the best character in the game.

 

[Chief Malik]

Barret is the best character in the game.

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And still racist

 

[Wamb0wneD]

In what fucking way is he a racist trope? Should all black characters in video games be some mild mannered person to not be racist?

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I think the main problem is that nobody else is as angry as him, even though they would have reason to be. His voice doesnt help either.

I can see how it can come off as tropes.

 

[chusetto]

............ You answered your own question

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A black dude can't be a comic relief? That's the racist thing nowadays...

 

[Young Liar]

Barret has undoubtedly the best lines in the entire game, and I admire his radical, revolutionary drive.

I also think the direction they took for his performance doubles down on the racist caricature that he was in the original. You are either being willfully blind or just straight-up ignorant if you don't see the glaringly obvious angry black man trope the game deploys for his character, from his over-the-top voice acting to his wild gesticulations. It's quite embarrassing how much of a blaxploitation character they make him out to be, and it stands out all the more because he's the only black character of note in the entire game.

Any other new AAA game that comes out with a character like this would be rightfully blasted for being racist.

Folks, I actually like the game a lot, and I appreciate some of the work the writers did to flesh out Barret more within the timeframe the game takes place in compared to the original, but I can also criticize those same writers for choosing to go balls out changing some of the major plot points from the original but sticking with the fundamentally racist portrayal of Barret, and in fact heightening it with voice acting and modern animation.

Again, the devs at Square Enix CHOSE to go with this direction for the character, much like how they chose to go with the direction for the story. If you can have an emotional response, whether it's anger or excitement, over what SE did for the main plot in this remake, you damn well better accept the fact that people can be upset about SE sticking to their guns with Barret.

Hell, so many people are applauding the changes they made to Wall Market and the whole Honeybee Inn sequence for not being wildly problematic like the original, and the new direction they took for that part isn't even all that radically progressive! Why the hell couldn't they have done the same thing for Barret??? Black people can be portrayed like revolutionaries filled with righteous anger without acting like a Mr. T ripoff!

 

[Kurtikeya]

It's magnified most especially in his character because the game is still very 90s and very anime in its characterizations despite the want to be updated and realistic. That he's able to stick out despite how genki Tifa is or how such of a tease Jessie is is telling. It's like they thought he's enough of a legacy to retain his history/memory but not enough of a character to explore him way beyond the game's themes which he embodies. I like his arc and development, but there just seems to be enough of a dissonance between what he represents, how he comes off as, as well as who he is as his own character that I can't help but be disappointed. Here's a take I agree with:

 

[Neiteio]

I think any problematic tropes in Barret's depiction are more than offset by the progressive elements. He's the leader, he's charismatic, and he has earned the respect and love and loyalty of his comrades. He's not afraid to cry when he's broken, and he's deeply human in his need for hope. And he's a loving father figure who is supremely gentle when he needs to be. I see his "anger" as passion. He struggles with grace - the wisdom to accept things beyond his control - and that's a very universal part of the human condition. Beautiful character.

 

[jett]

And still racist

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I can see how he can come off like that just because of his Mr. T-ish voice but there's a lot of depth to him in FF7R, he's not just angry black man. Barret isn't a walking stereotype.

 

[lost7]

As a black person, I think Barret was an amazing character and his VA did a really good job. Yes, he's a bit stereotypical in the sense that he's quite loud, but the Remake shows really well how much depth the character has

 

[Zephy]

To be fair I think that was fully intentional from the writers, because of how Cloud and Jessie look at each other knowingly while Barrett goes off on his rant.

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Yeah I don't know, you might be right but then it's a poor decision from the writers. Doing something bad on purpose doesn't make it any less bad. The way this particular monologue goes on to meticulously deconstruct the entire metaphor defeats the whole purpose of having a metaphor in the first place.

 

[thelooseteeth]

I love the Remake and the original. But yeah, Barret was and still is a racist caricature in line with most Japanese media depictions of people of color.

 

[The Unsent]

Hmmm... We have clearly not played the same game?

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Spoiler

Barrett I think is angrier because he knows deep down he has some blame for letting Shinra build a reactor, he has some anger at himself that he projects onto others and guilt over Dyne, Marlene's true dad who he convinced to work with Shinra. Cloud and Tifa or those other characters didn't sell out their towns to Shinra and believed his actions led to the death of his close friend.

Now you could argue they could write his character backstory and development different, or make him a different character to avoid the angry stereotype but I'm just saying what the story context is.

 

[Pandora012]

Barret's characterization is complicated for me. Initially I thought they'd go right back and do the same bs from the og. And well i was partially right. The voice direction for Barret...is well something else. They ham it up to the nth degree, when well it's unnecessary.

Yet at the same time that I had these issues, I fell in love with him during the course of the game. To the point I'm excited to see how they do his backstory. Honestly, besides Tifa he was the most relatable character to me. And honestly his growth during the game was handled very well. Tho, it's his interactions with his daughter that truely sold me. They were nothing but heart warming.

Basically, yes alot of good was done with Barret's character, but at the same time it doesn't erase some of his more problematic aspects of it. Even though i love him in the remake.

 

[Herey]

When I first heard him in the trailers, I initially felt quite uncomfortable with the voice direction. For years, I'd heard about Barrett being this Mr. T-esque character, which I finally confirmed for myself by playing the original earlier this year. Haven't played much of it, but a lot of Barrett's dialogue in it felt pretty embarrassing to read through at times. So to play the remake, and see that they were continuing with that Mr. T characterization, made me feel conflicted. Here I got to play as a black character, which is always rare as hell to see myself represented in the first place, and my first impression of him is that he seems to be little more than a caricature.

Fortunately as I played more of the game, I got to see that he does have actual depth, that there was far more to him than just his yelling. That he's actually very likable and charming, and has more than his fair share of tender moments. He can also be very insightful as well. Honestly I thought I was gonna come out of the game feeling really incensed about his character, but I've been pleasantly surprised overall. Not enough to pretend that there's literally nothing problematic about him like some here (Like c'mon guys....), but enough where I wouldn't label him as a caricature and call it a day. Him being far more fleshed out did wonders for him despite the stereotypical aspects of his character.

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Good post.

 

[Daysean]

every now and then i remember his design in Advent Children and i wince

 

[RenorMirshann]

I agree, OP. I've never played the original and tried the demo - the "Big Black Angry Man Yelling" is racist and cringy, but I guess the explanation is: "anime". People yell at each other (or even yell in general) in teen-targeted anime all the time.

 

[FRS1987]

His voice + personality combo is racist, yes.

The fact that he is also undeniably coded as black makes it worse.

This is a separate issue from his personality/character developement.

I don't know your race or background, but he doesn't seem racist to you - congratulations.

To a lot of people of color here (myself included), his depiction stings. It's a stain on an otherwise amazing game. I don't care if he ends up being likeable (and I did end up finding him endearing, as I've said in a previous post). Doesn't change the fact that he heavily pulls from hurtful black stereotypes that just...shouldn't be there.

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If the voice is also racist then that's something the dub theme did wrong rather than his character or the writing. In that case you have a problem with how he looks and how he sounds which makes sense but one problem is a problem from the developmental team while the other problem was exaggerated by the localization team. I don't get why you mentioned my race though. Would knowing if I'm a person of color change your perception of my answer?

 

[Daysean]

I agree, OP. I've never played the original and tried the demo - the "Big Black Angry Man Yelling" is racist and cringy, but I guess the explanation is: "anime". People yell at each other (or even yell in general) in teen-targeted anime all the time.

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I don't think anyone has described it as anything close to "anime"

 

[Ghifari77]

Nah, he being black have nothing to do with his behaviors.

Stop being racist, OP

 

[MonadL]

It's his VA that veers him into uncomfortable territory. I don't even mind him being loud but the Mr. T voice is what sends it a bit over the line. Apparently he isn't like this in the Japanese translation?

 

[gozu]

I won't judge because I didn't play the game.
For context, I am a white french.

But even with that, the first time we saw him "talk" on a trailer, I cringe :

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He *is* cringeworthy. He also doesn't seem very smart, or believable as a competent leader.

 

[TitanicFall]

I don't see it that way. He's not that likeable during the first chapter of the game, but neither is Cloud. He's justifiably angry at the things happening in the world and what happened to him. I think the problem with the Remake is you learn more about side characters than the main cast and their background stories won't be dived into until the sequel.

 

[Yappa]

Sounds like the english localization makes it worse than it already is.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

I played the game. I was less making a point about Cloud as a character specifically and more about visual tropes.

Why does Cloud, a lithe pretty white boy, look the way he does and have a backstory resulting in the cool, quiet personality he has, versus Barrett?

Spoiler

Also technically as someone who ONLY played FF7R, it isn't explained AT ALL why he's the way he is.

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Does Cloud really have a 'cool' personality? At the start he's showed as someone who only really cares about himself and is incapable of showing almost any empathy for everyone around him. He's a damn Asshole

There's a really cool dialogue early one in which he says 'why people aren't leaving Midgar if their lives are so shitty? It worked for me' and Barret replies that unlike him most people can't just leave their homes and family.

Barret might be more angry, but comes off as the better individual than Cloud.

 

[Ruisu]

He's a wrestler, they way he acts is based on a wrestler persona. Linking TV Tropes is not as good an argument as you think op.

 

[Kaguya]

Yea, loved him, his character is far more than just those parts, ignorant racist caricature really isn't fair. "scary black guy" doesn't even fits him too, the events I can remember where someone was intimated by him, it didn't happen right away, they were fine talking back at him until he got in their face, it's more a muscle head stereotype than just someone being scary due to skin color.

 

[Palette Swap]

I don't see it that way. He's not that likeable during the first chapter of the game, but neither is Cloud. He's justifiably angry at the things happening in the world and what happened to him. I think the problem with the Remake is you learn more about side characters than the main cast and their background stories won't be dived into until the sequel.

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The point people are trying to make here is that regardless of how well written a character is in vacuum, or how you justify that character's arc in-universe, it's still immaterial to the fact they chose that the one character that would be loud, frighten people on the subway and throw fits of rage would be the black dude.

To put it differently, Barret can both be someone's favorite character and be problematic.

He's a wrestler, they way he acts is based on a wrestler persona. Linking TV Tropes is not as good an argument as you think op.

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Feel free to read the thread and tell people their concerns are invalidated by wrestling.

 

[Hate]

I suggest using JP voices. It takes out the cringey Mr. T voice at least.

 

[Kreed]

It's even worse when you hear the English VA's normal speaking voice:



Meanwhile Rude, a non Black character, also has a Black VA in the English version and doesn't sound like a stereotype.

 

[jett]

It's his VA that veers him into uncomfortable territory. I don't even mind him being loud but the Mr. T voice is what sends it a bit over the line. Apparently he isn't like this in the Japanese translation?

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He comes off more like some kind of comedian in Japanese. I didn't like it.

 

[Chief Malik]

He's a wrestler, they way he acts is based on a wrestler persona. Linking TV Tropes is not as good an argument as you think op.

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K

 

[FRS1987]

I (personally) think the problem is his appearance and his voice but (imo) his character is a good character. If you take away his voice and his appearance then you have someone who is a loving father, a rebel who's against a corporation, who cares about the planet and gentle under his tough exterior. If people have a problem with his appearance they should with Sazh as well because of his afro and his stereotype of using guns and affinity for chocobos but he doesn't seem to have the same attention because he doesn't sound or talk like Barret but many people agree that his actual character/personality is good.

 

[Neiteio]

I said it earlier, but I see Barret's character as being about grace, or the struggle to attain it. By grace I mean the wisdom to accept things beyond your control.

There's a scene in the opening where he and Cloud are taking the elevator out of Mako 1 and he's clenching and unclenching his fist, going "c'mon c'mon c'mon," trying to hurry up the elevator. But then he chills when he looks back at Cloud being all calm and collected with his eyes closed. It's as though Barret has a moment of clarity to the effect of "I've done all I can." He is so animated and restless because of his passion for the cause - the same passion that inspired others to follow him - and he struggles to contain it.

I think it's good characterization.