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Oct 26, 2017
11,039
Ultimately, the way Barret is portrayed was a conscious creative decision. Could he have had the same arc he has without so thoroughly playing into these tropes? I'd assume so. So it's worth calling into question why he was directed like this.
A lot of it feels like an ode to the original western translation which exaggerated a lot of his stereotypes in the dialogue.

Barret is a conflicting character for me to fully wrap around. There are moments I truly love with him but there's also parts, especially in the beginning that play far too much in the loud and angry black man trope.
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Also the fact that he's kinda "childlike" in his black or white morality...I LOVED this game but Barrett was a big yikes from me.
I don't think this is fair at all, calling it childlike. Barret seems to be very well read in his revolutionary literature. He has a hard-line stance but that's because he has a HUGE axe to grind against Shinra. He gave them a chance once and it ruined his life.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,572
Not my place to speak about racism, but I think that the Japanese voice acting for him is much better than the English one. Sounds less forced.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
What they should have done is make him more similiar to Dutch from Black Lagoon.

Barret's screaming combined with the very kingdom hearts/anime body language is just so bad.
 

Perfo

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
344
He is a fine leader bearing the weight for others, of course is angry. Nice character btw
 

Mimosa

Community & Social Media Manager
Verified
Oct 23, 2019
795
I don't think this is fair at all, calling it childlike. Barret seems to be very real read in his revolutionary literature. He has a hard-line stance but that's because he has a HUGE axe to grind against Shinra. He gave them a chance once and it ruined his life.

Being hardline is fine, but the truth of the matter is, why does the hardline, loud, angry character ALSO have to be a big, hulking black man?

Cloud also seemingly got his life fucked up by Shinra. As did Tifa. Why aren't THEY loud and angry?

Why is the main black representation so heavily reliant on this tired ass trope?
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Being hardline is fine, but the truth of the matter is, why does the hardline, loud, angry character ALSO have to be a big, hulking black man?

Cloud also seemingly got his life fucked up by Shinra. As did Tifa. Why aren't THEY loud and angry?

Why is the main black representation so heavily reliant on this tired ass trope?
I was arguing specifically against you saying his black/white morality is childlike.
I agree with your other points.
 

Giru017

Member
Oct 30, 2017
33
Malta
Being hardline is fine, but the truth of the matter is, why does the hardline, loud, angry character ALSO have to be a big, hulking black man?

Cloud also seemingly got his life fucked up by Shinra. As did Tifa. Why aren't THEY loud and angry?

Why is the main black representation so heavily reliant on this tired ass trope?

Ummm, did you play the game? There's very good reasons as to why Cloud hardly expresses any emotion at all (or to put it more clearly, why he ISN'T loud and angry)...
 

Aliand

Member
Oct 28, 2017
890
tvtropes.org

Scary Black Man - TV Tropes

In many series, there will be a character who is much larger and more intimidating than most everyone else, very strong, often quite quiet, and very often this character will be black. Sometimes they can be the Token Minority, sometimes they're …

tvtropes.org

Angry Black Man Stereotype - TV Tropes

This trope is under discussion in the Trope Repair Shop. This trope refers to a stereotype that portrays black men (and black people more broadly) as perpetually and often irrationally angry due to perceived racial discrimination. Popularized in …
As a black man, it never once occurred to me Barret was associated with that.
The way I see him is a man (disregarding his skin colour) who is over the top when it comes to the planet and deeply believes in what he is saying. A passionate, fiery, manly man with a very interesting background.

Now I guess it depends on your own personal circumstances and background how you perceive the world around, but for me there is no racism here.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,707
I have not heard of this angry black man trope before. With that said, you're coming off as racist to me OP for assocaiting emotions to a race. Yikes..
Call it as it is - a personality trope, don't see the point of adding colour to it.

Early candidate for worst ResetEra post of the year, with no exaggeration.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,277
Liverpool, UK
I've only played the demo (got a backlog!) but his voice actually made me laugh in a kind of "I'm not sure this is ok" way... at times it's like a Mr T impression. By the same token, I do think there is more depth to the character than those moments where he's shouting about Shinra or going off about Cloud's apparent indifference... I'm not saying it's not problematic - that's not for me to judge - but as I progressed I just kinda got used to it and it felt faithful to what I could remember of him in the original (which I played not that long ago on Switch). Even in text form I got the vibe this is what they were going for... any representation issues probably stem from the original game.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Barrett is literally censored all the time in the original because of how vulgar he was, he and Cid were especially. I'm not saying the new Barret is perfect however.

Only in the English script though, that's the issue. They changed him for the english localization to make him a Mr.T caricature.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,225
Barret very often seemed to fall right back into his over the top "Mr. T" persona, but in FF7R he was a hell of a lot more fleshed out than he was in the original game, and despite the occasional regression actually felt more like a real person at times. He wasn't perfect, but he was vastly improved overall, although I think the biggest winner from the update was Aerith.

Only in the English script though, that's the issue. They changed him for the english localization to make him a Mr.T caricature.

Right now I am actually playing the original FF7 with the proper Japanese script translated. He's not quite as bad as what he was in the default English release, but he's damn near close to the same. It's not solely limited to a bunch of swearing either, but more the delivery. There is a lot less swearing overall in the game I am currently playing, but he still does a ton of shouting, and he's hard-coded to display aggression in both versions through his character's animations.
 
Last edited:

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,392
CAN YOU HEAR THE PLANET SCREAMING?
I KNOW YOU CAN
I grew to love his character as the game went on character and gameplay wise but man that beginning shit with him was kinda wack and I knew damn well he was going to stay comedic relief because cloud won't ever say shit, and Tifa/Aerith won't ever say shit unless it's ABOUT cloud. I expect better in future parts with Cid/Yuffie and co
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Barret "Hmph. Them's fighting words."

Stuff like this tick me off. Why doesn't anyone else in the slums talk like that? Them's fighting words... really?
 

Truly Gargantuan

Still doesn't have a tag :'(
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,034
Barrett is literally censored all the time in the original because of how vulgar he was, he and Cid were especially. I'm not saying the new Barret is perfect however.
Yeah and Remake Barret curses just as much if not more than original. It's just that they don't censor the words anymore. The censor thing wouldn't work so well with real voice acting as censor beeps are usually served for comedy purposes. It wouldn't work during an intense moment where Barret is cursing someone out and it's just bleeps.
 

Mimosa

Community & Social Media Manager
Verified
Oct 23, 2019
795
Ummm, did you play the game? There's very good reasons as to why Cloud hardly expresses any emotion at all (or to put it more clearly, why he ISN'T loud and angry)...

I played the game. I was less making a point about Cloud as a character specifically and more about visual tropes.

Why does Cloud, a lithe pretty white boy, look the way he does and have a backstory resulting in the cool, quiet personality he has, versus Barrett?

Also technically as someone who ONLY played FF7R, it isn't explained AT ALL why he's the way he is.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
He played into all the stereotypes, it was dreadful.

The scene at Aerith's house when they came look for Marlene particularly pissed me off. It felt like he legitimately had 0 social skills and control of his emotions.
 

mindsale

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,911
I was wondering if Barret's depiction was racist. Yes, he sounds like Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder or Mr T, but he's also extremely articulate. I think his character arc is probably the most charming. Both he and Cloud mellow out instead of being dismissive abrasive douchebags, and when he's outright happy at small moments it's extremely satisfying. I think he's less an Angry Black Man Trope and more a complicated character who has a lot of pent up rage.
 

Deleted member 64666

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 20, 2020
1,051
He also with Madam M and Sam is basically a sex trafficker for Corneo.
Of course, that is the cherry on the sundae... But honestly, and unfortunately, with video games, I've honestly learned to let go of all of that. Gamers, in my experience, are often time completely insensitive on these subjects, so it's hard to discuss it with composure before one person insults the other with the usual "You're an idiot, because you think that way".
 

Simplegamer

Member
Oct 26, 2017
343
Being hardline is fine, but the truth of the matter is, why does the hardline, loud, angry character ALSO have to be a big, hulking black man?

Cloud also seemingly got his life fucked up by Shinra. As did Tifa. Why aren't THEY loud and angry?

Why is the main black representation so heavily reliant on this tired ass trope?

Exactly, Cloud has been through some shit as well but yet comes off as calm and collective.....
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,435
Being hardline is fine, but the truth of the matter is, why does the hardline, loud, angry character ALSO have to be a big, hulking black man?

Cloud also seemingly got his life fucked up by Shinra. As did Tifa. Why aren't THEY loud and angry?

Why is the main black representation so heavily reliant on this tired ass trope?
I suppose they could have have him a slimmer build. I think it's a hard balance to strike between recognising the character in the remake and updating him. A slimmer Barrett would feel very strange when he's the tank of the team.

Also
Barrett I believe cooperated with Shinra to build a reactor, sold out his town, and his anger towards them is a reflection of his own mistake and guilt.
 

strife85

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,475
User Banned (1 Month): Playing into racial stereotypes
I played the game. I was less making a point about Cloud as a character specifically and more about visual tropes.

Why does Cloud, a lithe pretty white boy, look the way he does and have a backstory resulting in the cool, quiet personality he has, versus Barrett?

Also technically as someone who ONLY played FF7R, it isn't explained AT ALL why he's the way he is.
Not to sound offensive, but I think many women would actually prefer Barret's muscular and manly looks to scrawny Cloud.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
Barret "Hmph. Them's fighting words."

Stuff like this tick me off. Why doesn't anyone else in the slums talk like that? Them's fighting words... really?

Well he isn't from the slums. The problem is, no one from his area talks like that either in the original game so it's not really an excuse.

I played the game. I was less making a point about Cloud as a character specifically and more about visual tropes.

Why does Cloud, a lithe pretty white boy, look the way he does and have a backstory resulting in the cool, quiet personality he has, versus Barrett?

Also technically as someone who ONLY played FF7R, it isn't explained AT ALL why he's the way he is.

Cloud and Barret both have PTSD. They handle it differently. Cloud withdraws and tries not to have meaningful connections while Barret feels everything and tries too hard. Neither is really elaborated in the Remake and even if they were, wouldn't meaningfully change the issues with Barret's depiction imo.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
I think they went a little too far in making him with a "gruff" voice with their voice direction. They did the same thing with Gladiolus in XV. If they had toned it down by about 20% it would have helped a bit. As for the character itself, Barret has a lot of fleshing out that balances the tropes, but I can understand if people have a problem with the tropes they use. All characters in the game are tropey in some way, and I am also somewhat annoyed with how they animate Tifa as well.

All in all it doesn't detract from the game for me too much, as I knew what we would be getting, as the tropes are still there from the OG, just on top of more fleshed out characters. But despite the tropes, Barret still has some great lines and depth as a character. I do wonder if they could have tweaked it a bit more.
 

timerhyme

Member
Apr 19, 2018
449
I think they've done a good job at trying to downplay this trope in the remake, OP. The OG FF7 Barret definitely felt this way, but imo this game humanises him in a way that isnt as offensive. Yeah he shouts loads, but he has so many more layers and emtions in this game.

I never hold my breath when it comes to minorities in JRPG's, which is why I like custom silent characters growing up as I could self insert as a non-tropey black guy :P
 

Megawarrior

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,355
As someone who is black, there is nothing wrong with him and he feels like one the few most realistic black character I've seen in a while in a game. He gets better as you go on too. Only issue i have with him is the ugly ass shades. They can go.
 
Oct 28, 2017
472
When I saw promotional material I was kinda wondering why people weren't raising eyebrows and just kinda thought I wasn't seeing the bigger picture and I was wrong.Interesting to see that I'm not the only one who questioned barret's character.
Also not surprised at some of the dumbass moronic posts some users made in here."Well I like FF7 remake, therefore barret is in fact not a racist caricature."
 

MnM

Alt-Account
Banned
Mar 9, 2020
1,008
User banned (2 weeks): Ignoring staff post, dismissive drive-by about concerns of stereotypes.
Oh, come on now.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,951
This absolutely drags his character and the game down, anyone paying any attention can see it. It doesn't matter if you like the character because he has growth, or shows some knowledge, or is a dood dad, it's still the front and centre.

Ummm, did you play the game? There's very good reasons as to why Cloud hardly expresses any emotion at all (or to put it more clearly, why he ISN'T loud and angry)...
They were not literaly asking why can't Cloud be specifically, but rather why at the design stage was it the black man who was chosen for the angry character.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,413
I think the jist is he hates everyone equally as they have their unwitting part of giving Shinra power, impoverished a huge chunk of Midgar's populace and slowly killing the planet. An activist if you will. Maybe even an extremist.
I think this is Barret's single best piece of dialogue that illustrates his worldview succinctly:

 
Feb 16, 2018
1,561
I thought he was great in the game, I think his character makes sense given the context of what's happening. I also don't think angry black man is the only thing he has going for him, he's loving father and cares a lot about his team in Avalanche, bounces off Cloud really good too.
 

Ivanovic

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,362
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing concerns around representation, and Hostility
In what fucking way is he a racist trope? Should all black characters in video games be some mild mannered person to not be racist?
 

Mimosa

Community & Social Media Manager
Verified
Oct 23, 2019
795
Not to sound offensive, but I think many women would actually prefer Barret's muscular and manly looks to scrawny Cloud.

Really not sure what this has to do with the topic my dude, but
1) women aren't a monolith
2) As a woman, Barrett's overly muscular pin head design looks more like it's meant to appeal to straight men to me. I personally prefer Cloud's aesthetic.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,127
Personally I don't think it is as much of an issue precisely because he is an empowered character, and his portrayal actually has some depth. But I agree the type he plays to is problematic. But that can be explained by the source material to some degree. I think if they strayed to far people would probably be pissed. I probably wouldn't like it that much. I am not a black man, but brown but that's my two cents. I am fine with it overall, because I like his character. And I think being a charismatic angry leader works in the context. I don't seeing being muscly as being a problem either, although I understand when you put those together they do form a stereotype. On the other hand, he was so obviously modelled on Mr T in the original, that well that explains a lot. I always thought Mr T was by the coolest character in the A team by the way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,600
Not to make this a sub vs dub thing, but It's funny playing the game subbed gives a completely different impression of the character. The JP VA makes him seem far more jovial almost like a comic relief character where as the dub plays him far more seriously. I honestly couldn't stand the dub performance. I remember reading that Polygon retrospective on FF7 where they ask the devs about him being a caricture in the original version and Nomura pretty much threw the localization team under the bus.

www.polygon.com

Final Fantasy 7: An oral history

An inside look at the creation and fallout of Square's industry-defining role-playing game, as told by those who were there.

I did hear complaints about Barret. I later asked why. … I think it had to do with the localization and translation not being very good. Ever since that experience, we've paid a lot more attention to localization. Back then, we weren't very strict about controlling it. We just let the translators do what they thought was best. But it led to them adding and portraying things that we never intended in our original script. So since then, we've worked with the translation team to make sure the localization is as close as possible to the original.