Oh Lord, we really doing this?
No, the arguments for black nationalism, which were often separatist as much as they were segregationist, are NOT at all the motherfucking same as pro-segregation arguments from white folks.
Terrible post.
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So Joe Biden was on The Breakfast club: "If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black." [UP: Apologizes]
- Thread starter Musubi
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Oh Lord, we really doing this?
No, the arguments for black nationalism, which were often separatist as much as they were segregationist, are NOT at all the motherfucking same as pro-segregation arguments from white folks.
Terrible post.
Malcom was so prescient on this:
Stop caping for politicians who don't care about you or your interests and are actively dismissive of your communities.
Stop caping for politicians who don't care about you or your interests and are actively dismissive of your communities.
Oh its coonish now? Its crazy tone death, you're doing the exact same thing you're just not white. You don't own or monopolize the black opinion and this is not as cut and dry racist as you like to pretend it is.
Ok you're literally and objectively wrong here. Some people in the fucking nation of islam today still preach segregation for the betterment of black people.
Americans for some reason saw more potential in the guy that has a bad record, over candidates such as Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, who actually have great records. I'm voting for Biden against Trump regardless, but man do I wish Bernie got the nomination.
I love Malcolm, but stop using his words to twist what we're talking about in 2020. It's disrespectful.
Malcolm even argued that black voters vote in a bloc in order to influence policy in his very own autobiography.
And you look at what's happening in 2020, and black voters are influencing the Democratic Party in a bloc, so much so that they essentially chose Biden in 2020 as their candidate and are placing more black men and women in the House and Senate than ever before.
The NOI preach Black Americans having their own nation not segregation inside of a white state that they have no political power over.
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The reason I say that it is not a semantic argument even if both are technically segregation is that the semantics in question are being used to keep from obscuring a power dynamic between the communities. Maybe if more of the heroes of the civil rights era had died of old age we could act like the structural inequality was just a matter of trivial word choice and not the crux of the issue here, but that's fantasy world talk.
Yeah people getting madder at you than at Biden for what is a less egregious statement is some folks really telling on themselves
Not really caping for him. But I do know I will not, not participate in the process and I will vote to help ensure Trump is removed. Really what it all comes down to at the end of the day.
who said I owned black opinion? I'm talking about keeping your thoughts to yourself. That's all. Shutting up is free!
If you woke up this morning, saw this clip, and said "that doesn't bother me", good for you. I don't really care that you feel that way. But to get into a back and forth with other skinfolk about the issue you are inadvertently defending Biden in this context which is indefensible.
If you black, you black. I'm not here to call into question your blackness( Unlike our favorite white politician of interest.) . But that doesn't make your actions and words non-suspect!
Fuck the party. I am voting for Biden for the country.
I pretty always vote democrat, but given the opportunity for a better leftist party in America I would throw them under the bus without a second thought.
You're distorting what Malcolm said on the subject. He said vote in a bloc for candidates who met our direct interests. And withhold our votes for candidates who did not.
I've never seen, in my lifetime, such a clear case for withholding our vote en masse than the current presidential candidates under this criteria.
Do what you gotta do. But as long as you aren't out here telling Black people that they shouldn't feel any kinda way about what Biden said in this interview we got no beef.
Yes sovereignty was apart of Malcolm's platform but nobody settled on where. There was talk of "going back to Africa" which most non white people balked at.
I feel you and I'm totally fine with anyone who's got issue with what was said. That said, as a black poster here, I'd prefer we all stop judging each other as sellout house negroes over some shit like this.
I completely agree that it doesn't need defending, but too many come in here implying folks who disagree are white posters or sellouts and that isn't cool. You and the other posters are probably in agreement on a ton of shit and no one should be labeled as a coon. Either way, folks are going to continue to speak their minds and you may have to find a way to deal with that other than this. Last I'll say on it.
Oh what Biden said was a shitlord level of bad and does not help given his history. He should be dunked on. But alas....
He can pretty say anything he wants short of the N word and you'll get a lecture from people for pushing back because " Whoa hey now but Trump" , it's absurd
C'mon, we don't have to compare anyone in this thread to Umar or Tariq.
I totally agree that's what I meant, I think the party is a disaster but we've seen some more progressive people pulling support as of late particular where somebody like Bernie almost had the nomination. Again though I don't blame anyone for staying home in this particular case. Bidens remarks today are incredibly offensive, and his behavior towards women is massively questionable. It's a total disaster.
Please god, no super-divisive alkaline water ashy elbow no Caribbean black people hotep shit, lmao
Uh...no they preach black nationalism, as in black people having their own nation, not forced legal segregation in the same society...
I seriously do not understand what the disconnect is here. At this point multiple people have explained to difference to you.
white man saying "If you don't know who to vote for on this election, you ain't Black": oh it's just some jeff foxworthy shit he's making a funny
black man saying "If you're Black and OK with what he said, you're selling out the community": HOLD UP NOW
*thinking_galaxy_emoji.gif*
black man saying "If you're Black and OK with what he said, you're selling out the community": HOLD UP NOW
*thinking_galaxy_emoji.gif*
You're full of it when you say that I'm distorting shit.
He says simply that "Whenever any group can vote in a bloc, and decide the outcome of elections, and it fails to do this, then that group is politically sick." He also says specifically that black voters voting in a bloc can decide elections.
What he doesn't say, but what follows from this, is that black voters voting within a bloc can also direct a party's own elections and primaries. And look at Biden's stances, and he's standing against multiple things that target black citizens (like mandatory minimums) and here in 2020, we're actually talking about at least starting to look at reparations for Black Americans (which most of the Democratic Party stood for because they have to because of the massive bloc of black voters that they need to win a primary).
Anyway, this "hold back your vote" shit that will obviously lead to a Trump victory is basically some agent shit that a lot of exposed black Trump supporters or white people masquerading as black always say online, so I don't have time for it. Not saying you're one of them because I think the argument does suck in black folks that are being genuine too, but when you say the same shit that these agents for Trump are saying, I'm not interested in hearing it.
The only sellouts in the community are the people who vote for Trump or the Republicans. Other than that, saying that is a serious claim. If a poster wants to call someone a coon, they'd better have some backing for it.
Are you black, muteKi?
At this point even if he said it I'm sure we would have people caping for him using the same logic as the sexual assault case. "Yeah he is racist but Trump is MORE racist"
Oh he could definitely cross that line as well and still get the "but Trump!" defense.
My whole point in this thread has been to point out that this clip is misleading in the context of the entire interview and will likely be weaponized. Something that Charlemagne himself is retweeting. But he gets called coon too despite being maybe the only media personality on record this election cycle pressing Biden on racial issues. People have always been called jive turkeys or coons or whatever. Its just the rhetoric is so manufactured now that you sometimes you feel like you should combat it.
He honestly should push up his VP candidate announcement and pick either Val Demings, Kamala Harris, or Stacey Abrams. This gaffe would've been over by the end of the day if one of them chimed in and sort of soften up this comment. Symone Sanders isn't really good at resolving gaffes.
Such as what? Being called house negroes and coons? That's the splash back you're going to bat for? That's the discourse you want? Because if it is, you can seriously keep it moving. No one's blackness is on trial here and here of all places, one shouldn't have to prove anything.
Again with semantics. We've been describing the same concept for a couple posts now but you seem fixated on saying "no, actually" and I've lost interest in going around in circles.
This is a key point, but the thing I'll add here is that this is already happening. And Dems need to get that in their heads.
People get so hung up on headlines like "Democrats get 80%+ of Black voters" and tune out thinking that shit's on lock, but here's the thing: turnout matters. Raw numbers matter. Speaking anecdotally, I rarely come across Black people who are aiming to vote Republican. It's rare in my experience, the polls reflect that, and I echo others in this thread who have said that most active Black voters are not going to care about this interview. What I do come across a lot are Black people who don't plan on voting; for a myriad of reasons, among them being that they're turned off by candidates, turned off by the process itself, and truly don't believe that anybody will have their ear to Black people post-election. Obviously, I don't agree with this and I make it my work to convince those potential Black voters otherwise, but it would be foolish to think that mentality was born out of thin air. Comments like Biden's here absolutely feed into that, whether it was a bad joke or a window into his racism. And in an election that's going to require your base to Turn. The. Eff. Out. you can't be out here making jokes that feed into existing insecurities segments of your base have about their place in the party.
I know she's going to follow the company line publicly, but I hope BTS Symone Sanders is knocking this into Biden's head, literally if need be.
He said:
The target is not within reach in 2020. It's not always going to be in elections and we have to be willing to acknowledge that. Joe Biden has caused more actual material harm to black people in America than Donald Trump, up to this point. He's not advocating policies to bring material improvements to us either. Even the act of selecting a black VP (which would typically be a token position but due to circumstances here is actually very important!) is beyond him.
I'm not sure why you think this is ok. I've been posting here and at the old place for almost a decade now. To try to insinuate that I'm a black Trumper or white person is online blackface is offensive and absurd.
My argument has always been, when you give away your agency, you cannot wield power. When you signal to Democrats that they do not have to earn your vote, then you cannot influence them. No, tokenism is not influence. Policy, actual policy concessions and an actual seat at the table are my bar.
Black turnout was absolutely down in 2016 and the reasons should be pretty obvious. In an election decided by a mere tens of thousands of votes that matters! We are the Democratic Party's base constituency. They should not, cannot take us for granted. Biden is already conceding Latino voters. He may already be conceding younger black voters. It's designed to win white Rust Belt moderates but my God if it fails...
Biden really should be trying to generate enthusiasm and interviews like this are not conducive to doing so.
Explain this right now. Are you seriously saying that people who don't like Biden but are still going to vote for him are guilty? That Biden is really worse than Trump? I have yet to see someone say yes it's totally ok that Biden said this and is totally excusing him for it.
Yeah that was a pretty raw deal. It's not like there is another candidate that we can support at this stage of the game and being called a House Negro because you want Trump out is high tier Bullshit.
Where I've always been about this.
....
How the fuck did y'all get into it with each other when the fact is the white Presidential nominee just admitted to your faces he has your black-ass vote and no matter how much he fucks up you can't do nothing about it?
For fuck's sake.
How the fuck did y'all get into it with each other when the fact is the white Presidential nominee just admitted to your faces he has your black-ass vote and no matter how much he fucks up you can't do nothing about it?
For fuck's sake.
When you look back at his history, do you think Biden really cared about the minority when he promoted the War on Drugs that targeted POC? And working with his friends like Thurmond to help create the crime bill which expanded the death penalty?
Joe Biden never apologized for his awful history. Meanwhile you have Robert Byrd apologizing in 2005 for his awful history.
And he said EXACTLY what I wrote:
And:
He is not talking about politics merely within the local arena, and as you know, by the end of his life, he was looking at ways for the mass of black voters to wield their power on a national and international level (such as his argument that black voters should try to get the U.S. censured for human rights violations at the UN). So to ignore this to make your point is some bullshit, frankly. It's dishonest.
Speaking of dishonest: As for your bullshit remark that I tried to insinuate that you're a Trumper or white person, I went out of my way NOT to do that. I said that this argument that you are making is the same fucking argument that Trumpers and white people in blackface make. Agents say the same shit that you're saying. I said, "black folks also believe it," but I pointed out that if your belief and the belief of a bunch of agents who have nothing in mind but destruction for black folks are the same, that to me is not a winning argument and I think that you should re-evaluate it.
So you can get out of here lying about what I said and ignoring what Malcolm said so that you can make your points.
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