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Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,941
Some gatcha games have actually good gameplay, but gatcha is inheriently designed to wall your progress and force you to spend money. The stamina system present in literally all of them may be the worst gameplay mechanic ever.

That said I will download Pokémon Masters.
 
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RedSwirl

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,101
  1. I really hate how most Asian (Japanese, Chinese, and probably Korean) mobile games advertise themselves. Instead of regular screenshots each "screenshot" is a collage of a bunch of tiny-ass screenshots covered up by a shitload of text. I can't even see what the regular game looks like from the store page. That shit might look good in Asian magazines or flyers, but when I'm on the app store I just need regular-ass screenshots.
  2. I'm still a bit surprised none of these JRPG developers seemingly has done one of those first person grid dungeon crawlers for mobile. There are quite a few good examples from western developers. You'd think some of those niche Japanese DRPGs would've gone to mobile by now.
  3. Visually there are two things that put me off gatcha games:
    1. The animation style of a lot of the 2D characters has a sort of cheap look where you can see the limbs and different parts sliding individually, like marionettes or something. I understand it's probably way cheaper than high-res sprites (everybody can't be Vanillaware or KOF XIII), I just don't like it.
    2. The UI that's common to these games looks so obviously like a pachinko machine.
 

Kasai

Member
Jan 24, 2018
4,304
The amount of money I've spent on Battle Cats is like $40-50, spread over maybe 3-4 months. Its not even all that much fun, but goddamn I need all the cats and its somewhat relaxing once you're doing the loop.
 
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RedSwirl

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,101
Actually, have any of these devs done a Diablo-style or PSO-style thing?

The one kind of mobile game I actually want is a good Diablo clone, which is why I wasn't pissed off when Blizzard announced Diablo Immortal.
 

sosainas

Member
Sep 13, 2018
897
I played this a good amount last year and I definitely had fun. It was cool getting all these FF characters into your party. I pretty much tailed off though when you started getting towards the max level. Level ups are slow and that's when you really need to start doing the crystal leveling which is even more grindy if your favorite characters happen to be the same color. And the constant loading and downloading became a problem when you I just wanted to get a quick battle here and there. Still worth trying for people who are big fans of Final Fantasy.

A lot of things have changed since last year and a lot of QoL improvements have been added.

Now you can use items to level up EXP. Also, now in cycle quests you can find special cactuars that give a lot of EXP. Use a x2 or x3 book and leveling up is way far from slow.

Collecting crystal is even faster, because now you can use the points of co-op events to buy a ton of crystal of any tier.

You can skip constant downloading with the batch download option.
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,854
I'm still a bit surprised none of these JRPG developers seemingly has done one of those first person grid dungeon crawlers for mobile. There are quite a few good examples from western developers. You'd think some of those niche Japanese DRPGs would've gone to mobile by now.

SMT Dx2 has something like that, there's a first person dungeon crawling mode where you can continuously explore deeper levels. Of course, it's not going to be as complex as EO or a full fledged title.

Actually, have any of these devs done a Diablo-style or PSO-style thing?

The one kind of mobile game I actually want is a good Diablo clone, which is why I wasn't pissed off when Blizzard announced Diablo Immortal.

Path of Exile might be what you're looking for. It's the most well-known one, and considered one of the best-playing ones.
 

Ganransu

Member
Nov 21, 2017
1,270
Puzzle and Dragons has been the only one I've ever seriously been able to get into. There is no autoplay (unless you download a solver, I guess) and there's actually a ton of skill involved from the get-go. Even the easier leads require a decent amount if you're a F2P player and can't build absurd team comps.
I've been wanting to "return" to PAD - I played a little a long while ago-, but the game just starts so slow compared with more modern counterparts. It doesn't let you just quickly reroll for a 5* to blitz through early game, heck, even if you do have a 5*, you don't get to use it because team cost is a thing. And there doesn't seem to be any "improved rate" banners that other games do. Last but not least, having to manage "inventory"...

However, in terms of gameplay, it is indeed one of a kind. Perhaps it's due to it being outdated or other reasons, but there just isn't a single puzzle game as good as it, there isn't even a clone of it I found comparable.
 

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
Dragalia is actually fun to play, gameplay wise. Only gacha I've tried that has achieved that (I'm sure there are others though).

Regardless, I still think nobody should play it because of how potentially dangerous these types of games are. Too many people have flushed their life savings whaling on these games.
 

Deleted member 22002

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
478
I consider gacha games just like i do cigarettes: Are they enjoyable? Sure. Can they be used responsibly without excess? Sure. Do I have friends who swear they are the best? Absolutely. Am I stupid? No.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,140
Morizora's Forest
Gacha games can be fun to play. Whether or not it sticks with me really depends on how I feel after the honeymoon phase where the games start to slow down in showering you with newbie rewards and you need to start looking at efficiency and management a bit more. Part of the fun I have with these games is the set up of teams and theory crafting what would work for different maps, this isn't always necessary but for me a good game will reward or push me to do this.

On the other hand Bang Dream and games like it that have a more reaction based combat can be fun without really thinking too much. Just enjoy the characters you like and songs you like. It sucks when I miss out on characters/events that I sort of want but at the same time it doesn't feel as bad since they are more like skins any way. They aren't really game breaking like some of the characters in turn based gacha.

In regards to gacha itself and its gambling nature I certainly think some games are more predatory than others and each of has have different levels of self control. Knowing this I am hesitant to recommend gacha games to people who may have addictive personalities and poor self control. I'm not sure where the majority is on this but I'm personally all for regulation in this area.

Quality of the games are hit or miss I guess but I think there is certainly room for good content from a variety of perspectives. I was recently very impressed with Epic 7's Eulogy of a Saint side story. This side story explores some of the events that happened leading to chapter 1 and I think it is some of the best written mobile game story in a gacha game. I can't think of anything better at the moment at least. I had missed this event by the time I started playing but curiousity about the main characters in it (referenced or appears in other side content sometimes) and I ended up watching it on youtube. The video is over 2 hours and this is skipping combat. I'll link the video for those interested.
Contains spoilers of course
 

Tomasdk

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
910
I heard lots of good things about Dragalia but it's still not available in europe, I don't understand how it's such an issue. Just make a Global server like Epic7 (they just opened EU servers like a week or so ago) and let me play.

And I'd also like a dungeon crawler type game. I tried SMT Dx2 but didn't like it too much. Still looking for something different
 

Naar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,085
I don't play mobile or gacha games except for Dissidia Opera Omnia.

I never thought I'd get hooked to it the way I did. It is one of my favorite Final Fantasy's in recent years (because the fight system is like the classic FF games) and the game is so generous with resources and its not p2w that it took me 1 year to find something to buy to support the developer.

Give Opera Omnia a try since it doesn't have the issues mentioned in the OP
 

Mupod

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,905
Epic Seven was something I picked up on a whim but it pretty much immediately made me drop Fire Emblem Heroes and focus less on FGO. The devs have definitely been around the gacha block many times, and it shows - game is incredibly well-made. Yeah, it's an unending autobattle grind hole but that's exactly what I want out of these. It's got enough challenge content to keep me interested and pushing forward on the day-to-day.

It doesn't hold a candle to Fate Grand Order in story but it's actually not too bad on that front either. The Guilty Gear event story had Fire Emblem Heroes level of terrible writing, but outside of that the plot and world building have only impressed me.

As for the entire concept of gacha games, I'd say I can boil down the reasons I enjoy them to a few bullet points. I like highly systems-based, number crunching games that I can devote a lot of thought to even when I'm not playing. I don't always have time or energy to devote to a game after work and it can be nice to have something I can idly plug away at while watching something or eating dinner. I like having a game I can log in to every day and have something to look forward to. I enjoy the mmo-like aspects, not necessarily the kind of intense co-op you need to schedule around like raiding in WoW, but rather a sense of community in and around the game.

And of course there's really nothing quite like pulling something incredibly rare. This is dangerous in itself, as someone jaded and bored with a lot of modern games, I could see myself saying 'this is the only thing that makes me feel anything anymore' and dropping too much money. I stick to my guns on my self-imposed F2P game rules though. E7 has a really convenient cheap monthly subscription I'm totally fine with paying for as long as the game keeps me interested. FGO I'll do the guaranteed SSR twice a year and no more. Maybe if not for outrageous Canadian prices I'd be more susceptible to this stuff, but outside of my very first experience with gacha games (FEH) I haven't had any 'I fucked up' moments. Thankfully that lesson only cost me like 80 bucks in PC hardware rebates, I'm glad it happened before FGO since I might've made some mistakes when a certain fox caster showed up.
 

Rhomega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,707
Arizona
Based on the description of gacha games, I believe I play one: Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes. You collect characters, play them in a turn-based RPG, level them up by spending credits and using training drones, collect shards to increase their star rating, as well as collecting and building equippable gear. I've been playing for a couple of years and haven't spent a cent. I already have a number of 7-star LV 85 characters, and I'm slowly getting more.
 

Mupod

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,905
Based on the description of gacha games, I believe I play one: Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes. You collect characters, play them in a turn-based RPG, level them up by spending credits and using training drones, collect shards to increase their star rating, as well as collecting and building equippable gear. I've been playing for a couple of years and haven't spent a cent. I already have a number of 7-star LV 85 characters, and I'm slowly getting more.

I don't play it myself, but a friend does and we discuss it in comparison to gacha games a lot. Its battle system mechanics are extremely similar to Epic Seven but the progression is a lot different. It's been interesting comparing the similarities as Galaxy of Heroes is a lot older, it's given me some ideas of what to expect in E7 down the line.

The main difference between it and gacha games seems to be character acquisition. From what my friend described, in that game you need certain combinations of characters at certain gear levels to participate in battles to get shards for new ones. He's always saying that they make it nearly impossible to get characters to 7-star on their first run and most of the time he has to wait until their rerun so he has time to prepare as an F2P. He's said it's technically possible to get enough shards from random rolls for some characters but nobody actually does that. He's played it religiously for years so I have no reason to doubt what he's saying, but yeah personally I'd rather take my chances with a 1.25% gacha.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,808
Argentina
I've been playing Looney Tunes World of Mayhem for a month by now, longest I've played a mobile game. It's the most generous mobile game I've seen out there but I don't know many.
 

Rhomega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,707
Arizona
From what my friend described, in that game you need certain combinations of characters at certain gear levels to participate in battles to get shards for new ones. He's always saying that they make it nearly impossible to get characters to 7-star on their first run and most of the time he has to wait until their rerun so he has time to prepare as an F2P. He's said it's technically possible to get enough shards from random rolls for some characters but nobody actually does that. He's played it religiously for years so I have no reason to doubt what he's saying, but yeah personally I'd rather take my chances with a 1.25% gacha.

This doesn't apply to all characters. Most character shards can be gained from doing Light Side, Dark Side, Cantina, or Fleet Battles. After you get a 3-star rating on those, you can "sim" them by using Sim Tickets. You'll also need to do this to get gear parts. Other characters have to be bought using various forms of currency. Some even require joining a guild and doing Raids and Territory Wars (such Han Solo and Darth Traya).

The ones you are referring to I call "Event Characters", which require certain groups of characters like Jedi, Imperial, First Order, or Phoenix Squadron from Star Wars: Rebels. So in order to get a 7-star Event Character, you need to have 5 7-star characters in that group. On top of that, some Event Characters require another Event Character. Rey (Jedi Training) requires BB-8. In order to get BB-8, you need First Order characters. To get Commander Luke Skywalker, you need R2-D2. To get him, you need Imperial characters.

Then the event goes away and you forget what characters you needed to level up for the next time it comes around.
 
May 9, 2018
3,600
The one kind of mobile game I actually want is a good Diablo clone, which is why I wasn't pissed off when Blizzard announced Diablo Immortal.
Dungeon Hunter 5 tried the Gacha thing and it was hilariously bad (+ Clash of Clans for some weird reason).

Then they did Dungeon Hunter Champions which was Diablo + MOBA when MOBAs were already dying out, and somehow it was worse.
 

mephixto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
306
Undercover E7 recruit thread

22f64e1b3a224b3e9378c17899a8f621_1548852788.gif
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,515
UK
The most I ever enjoyed gatcha was Love Live School Idol Festival. I dropped off when it got to the Aquors update. This is a rhythm game and I loved it. Like actually played a lot of for years.
Puzzle and Dragons was fun at least. The core gameplay being fun helps.
Fire Emblem Heroes I played every day until book 2 and I just kinda dropped off. It's FE lite. Without all the fun of FE?
Dx2 is something that I play solely because I like Megaten. It is actually alright? There's a game there, but the last part of that game is behind a real big grind. And the story isn't worth it.
Granblue I'm starting to get into and I'm enjoying it. But I really just want Versus so I can be Ladiva the queen.
Girls Frontline is something I just started playing because VA-11 HALL-A collab. This is actually a fun SRPG sorta? Shame everything is super anime girl. Which itself is a problem.
 

abellwillring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,962
Austin, TX
I play Fire Emblem Heroes and Dragalia Lost daily. DL is the much, much better game, but I've invested enough time into FEH that I still play. I think FEH was really shitty about the price of orbs in game so I actually have not spent a dime on it. I've spent either $4 or $6 on DL though. I played FFRK for awhile in the past but eventually gave up on it.. it was always really generous with currency though and the actual real life expense for buying the summoning currency wasn't too bad. I probably spent $5-10 on that.
 

Mupod

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,905
This doesn't apply to all characters. Most character shards can be gained from doing Light Side, Dark Side, Cantina, or Fleet Battles. After you get a 3-star rating on those, you can "sim" them by using Sim Tickets. You'll also need to do this to get gear parts. Other characters have to be bought using various forms of currency. Some even require joining a guild and doing Raids and Territory Wars (such Han Solo and Darth Traya).

The ones you are referring to I call "Event Characters", which require certain groups of characters like Jedi, Imperial, First Order, or Phoenix Squadron from Star Wars: Rebels. So in order to get a 7-star Event Character, you need to have 5 7-star characters in that group. On top of that, some Event Characters require another Event Character. Rey (Jedi Training) requires BB-8. In order to get BB-8, you need First Order characters. To get Commander Luke Skywalker, you need R2-D2. To get him, you need Imperial characters.

Then the event goes away and you forget what characters you needed to level up for the next time it comes around.

I see. Makes sense - even though you can sim the battles you still need resources to do so, and you don't necessarily know what you need to have to get the new meta characters. He was pretty excited about finally getting Traya from the raid a few months ago but he'd been talking about her for a long time before that. Sounds like they target whales by making the new top tier characters require a lot of prerequisites and a short time period to get them. Whereas gacha can be cruel no matter how much you save (unless the game has a pity system), but there's always that chance you luck your way into something.
 

Rhomega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,707
Arizona
Simming battles does require Sim Tickets, but at my point with my Squad Arena and Fleet Arena rewards, I'm actually making more Tickets than I can use in a day, 52,000 and climbing. Darth Traya is an impressive achievement since, at least for my guild, doing the Heroic Sith Triumvirate Raid takes several days to complete. I was only recently able to get 7-star Han Solo from The Pit Raid, though that's usually completed in a few hours.
 

Kansoku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,215
I like gatcha. Right now I'm only playing Fire Emblem Heroes.

I did play Epic Seven from launch til around when they added Bellona, but the grind was getting to me, and the dailys were taking way too much time, so I dropped. It was fun, but too grindy for my tastes. One thing people complain about FEH is the thing I like; there's not much to do so it does not take a lot of time, so it's pretty easy to fit it into my schedule.

Initially I also didn't care about gachas, but FEH opened my eyes. I think it's interesting to deal with what the gacha gives you as a F2P. Of course you won't always get what you want, but I think it's quite fun building units with what you were given. +10'ing the heroes available in the 4~3* pool, thinking of a build you can do, and seeing them kick butt is is pretty rewarding. And I even came to like some units because of this, like Sheena. Right now I'm more excited about weapon refinements over actual new heroes too hahaha.
 

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,770
Over the last week I pumped about 10 hours into FF:BE and didn't spend a dime. Pretty fun as long as you have the self control to not purchase $24.99 bundles every day
 

Deleted member 179

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,548
I played Dokkan Battle and Duel Links for a LONG time, put quite a bit into Fire Emblem too. I'm gonna try Epic Seven now. The good thing about them is it gives me something to spend expiring Google Rewards credit on, I never actually spend money on them.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,909
Edmonton
I play Fire Emblem Heroes and Dragalia Lost daily. DL is the much, much better game, but I've invested enough time into FEH that I still play. I think FEH was really shitty about the price of orbs in game so I actually have not spent a dime on it. I've spent either $4 or $6 on DL though. I played FFRK for awhile in the past but eventually gave up on it.. it was always really generous with currency though and the actual real life expense for buying the summoning currency wasn't too bad. I probably spent $5-10 on that.

It's like looking into a mirror! I feel the same way.

I still open Fire Emblem each day to get some orbs, maybe play one round of something. But yeah, the price of orbs is hilarious and I can't say I've found some of the newest additions to the game all that interesting.

Dragalia Lost is far more fun to play. There are more currencies/items to grind for, but the actual combat, special events and co-op make it a blast. It also seems to be surprisingly generous with handing stuff out for free.
 

ejo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
401
Hawaii
Seeing a lot of Epic 7 love here. Is it possible to ignore PVP and just play the single player mode? I despise PVP games and would prefer not to engage in it if possible.

Been hooked on Dragalia Lost for two months now and am getting close to hitting some of the endgame content, all F2P. Love the gameplay mechanics and graphics but want another gacha to play while I wait for my Stamina to replenish. Hoping Epic 7 can be a nice side chick.
 

Mupod

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,905
Seeing a lot of Epic 7 love here. Is it possible to ignore PVP and just play the single player mode? I despise PVP games and would prefer not to engage in it if possible.

Been hooked on Dragalia Lost for two months now and am getting close to hitting some of the endgame content, all F2P. Love the gameplay mechanics and graphics but want another gacha to play while I wait for my Stamina to replenish. Hoping Epic 7 can be a nice side chick.

Gacha PVP is bad civilization and the reason I quit Fire Emblem Heroes, but E7's has been less obnoxious to me. Matches are pretty fast and straightforward, the arena AI follows really easy to understand rules. But if you don't fight player teams at all you can at least spend your arena entries on very easy NPC battles to get the daily quests done. There's some decent gear in the shop you can only get from PVP, and you get the typical currency payouts weekly + a bit for ranking up. Honestly I'd say give it a shot and maybe hang out in bronze or silver where it's comfortable.

There's guild PVP too and it basically boils down to 3 matches a day on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Rewards from that are a piddly amount of summon currency with terrible rates so you wouldn't be missing out on a ton there (until they get around to revamping it, we've been in 'pre-season' for months).

I never gave Dragalia a chance because action-based gameplay in these doesn't fit with how I play them, also they didn't release it in Canada until it was too late and I just couldn't be bothered jumping through any hoops for it. So I have no idea if it has any kind of PVP mechanics to compare it to.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I treat them as sort of junk food games. They don't have to be great, but I play some if they're interesting enough to give me something to do when I don't have the time or means to sit down and play something more substantial.

I have a very love and hate relationship with them. I'm honestly quite shocked at the production values in some of the newer gachas - Epic Seven looks gorgeous and can easily pass as a PC or handheld console game. Clearly the gacha train is making enough money that studios feel more comfortable putting more budget into their development these days.

The downside is that when I look for a gacha game, I seem to look for one that I hate the least, rather than one that I like the most. Every gacha I've tried has a collection of little "fuck yous" to the player, such as fifty different kinds of currency, shitty pull rates, lots of tedious and repetitive dailies, super grindy progression, charging you for time or money for basic actions like healing, or even small quality of life things like the lack of a "collect all" button for rewards. So then it becomes less about how much fun you can have with the game, but more about how much shit you want to put up with. I get that's how the business model works, but it means these games often aren't much fun to play for me.

Still, I play them because sometimes even a game that is significantly clunky or tedious by design is something to do when you're bored.

Gameplay-wise, I think the one I actually enjoyed playing the most is fire emblem, but the core gameplay of that game has run its course for me and I don't want to do more of that anymore.

Some gatcha games have actually good gameplay, but gatcha is inheriently designed to wall your progress and force you to spend money. The stamina system present in literally all of them may be the worst gameplay mechanic ever.

That said I will download Pokémon Masters.
The only stamina system that hasn't been terrible to me is the one in fire emblem heroes. That one is so generous with its stamina refill items that you can genuinely play as much as you want every day and it probably wouldn't be a limiting factor. It's clear the only reason why stamina is there is to keep people from doing ridiculous play-around-the-clock exploits that would be possible if there was no stamina system at all. And there are enough "free" actions you can make with the game that the people who really do want to do that can do it anyway.
 
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RedSwirl

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,101
I treat them as sort of junk food games. They don't have to be great, but I play some if they're interesting enough to give me something to do when I don't have the time or means to sit down and play something more substantial.

This is a big reason I don't play mobile games these days -- I usually use books to kill time with my phone.

So... books kind of killed mobile gaming for me.
 
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RedSwirl

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,101
Oh, explain please? I'm not familiar with those

Honestly I just used that as a catch-all term for slot machines that seem to be common in Japan. A lot of these gatcha games have UI that looks a lot like a slot machine to me. The sort of over-abundance of flashy buttons in comparison to non-F2P games, that kind of thing.
 

Sabin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,681
Honestly I just used that as a catch-all term for slot machines that seem to be common in Japan. A lot of these gatcha games have UI that looks a lot like a slot machine to me. The sort of over-abundance of flashy buttons in comparison to non-F2P games, that kind of thing.



Im pretty happy with the overall ui design of E7 asides from upgrading units. Mass upgrading when :|
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,980
I mainly play Mobius: Final Fantasy. It's fun and looks great and has a ton of content.

I've dipped a single toe into Draglia Lost and did the tutorial and like one single quest. I will admit, the fact that it can't be: "auto" makes me less likely to play it haha. But I'll try to find the time.

Fire Emblem Heroes... I find it a bit fun. I mainly login to get daily rewards and do some stuff to try to get characters that look good.

You know it's true when Cygames on gacha has characters appealing to several different groups of people with lots of unique designs. Then they make a console IP and it's this:
Project-Awakening_09-10-18.jpg

To be fair when they originally announced Project Awakening it looked very different. More in line with other Cygames stuff. However with Relink and Versus among other titles they probably wanted to branch out more and try something new.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,673
Final Fantasy Brave Exvius has the grossest UI I've seen in the gatcha games I have played. It has the aesthetic of signage you would see an a fair or amusement park. Bright, clashing colors. Multi-colored tickets. I hated it.
 

Ant_17

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,131
Greece
If you're at all interested in the Fate universe I'd recommend giving Fate/Grand Order a go. It's pretty fun imo, though the story isn't that great until the 4th/5th Singularity.

And by virtue of my avatar I guess I should at least mention Azur Lane, though YMMV on if it's for you or not.
I second Azur Lane. Has fun gameplay that is actual gameplay and great visuals.
 

Grzi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,752
I smoke and play gacha games. Often at the same time. Let me live my life please, thank you.

Oh, and play Epic Seven, it's seriously great, and respectful of your time unlike Granblue Fantasy.
 
Dx2 and Dragalia Lost
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RedSwirl

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,101
I finally checked out Dx2 for a minute. I think it seems like a Megaten game but without the writing that drew me into the Persona games.

Having the MegaTen battle system definitely helps it stand out from typical gatcha stuff but I'm not sure I'm interested in the main story. It also has the problem of some Megaten games where the tutorial is really fucking slow. JRPGs with long, wordy tutorials like this are the only video games that literally put me to sleep. I got over it in Persona 3 and 4 because each one had settings and characters that immediately felt interesting during those tutorial phases. Persona 5 kinda got over it with its action prologue (JRPGs are actually pretty damn good at action prologues when they try) before getting into its painfully slow and long intro segment. Dx2 so far just seems like some standard otaku anime weirdness.

I also tried the first part of Dragalia Lost and it seems like this might actually be "the good one". For some reason I haven't been able to do the full game download though -- it stalls on like the last 8MB or something.

To be sure, the story and visual style seem way too "anime" for me (but the English dub is surprisingly good). That's probably gonna put me off it in the long run, but the actual game seems like a Diablo/Mana where they actually did the thing with the controls I wanted other mobile devs to do -- trash the fucking virtual joystick and just let me move and attack with taps and swipes. It feels like mechanically this is actually a pretty damn good mobile action RPG.

Visual fidelity on mobile has proven there is a level of visual fidelity that once to a certain threshold is deemed "acceptable" yet those titles that push beyond that threshold don't necessarily equate to massive sales like console and PC. The net cast out for mobile audiences is so wide and "casual" that the "man on the street" opinion of cell phone graphics is that they are "good enough".

Titles that have pushed graphics on mobile have varied in terms of success. One end you have something successful visually and commercially like Monument Valley, and then something like Vain Glory that matched AAA efforts for mobile yet failed to find an audience or justify its price tag for development.

Not to mention graphically intensive games tend to be a quick drain on smart phone batteries and makes it feel like your holding a severely hot coffee cup.

This is exactly where I'm at in regards to mobile games actually. Before I wasn't really criticizing the graphics for being low-end, I was making observations about where some smaller Japanese devs seem to be production-wise. If I'm criticizing anything visually about these games it's the art direction.

Another game I just tried is a non-Gatcha action RPG called Triglav. The graphics basically look like Diablo II or something -- low-res 2D sprites, and the game looks perfectly fine without running like crap or draining your phone battery.

A big problem hanging over all these gatcha games I've been trying is that I'm still on an iPhone 6 Plus, so they all run like crap and cause my phone to practically burn a hole into my hand. With phones you've got people using various different models with different hardware specs, so devs are sort of in the same situation as mainstream PC gaming -- they should be working from the lowest-common denominator on-up, and you're right that the mobile gaming audience doesn't care as much about technical fidelity. They don't need to be reaching for AAA console graphics.

Personally, I think around PS1-level graphics are good enough for me on small screens. I wouldn't mind if all these gatcha games looked like Diablo II, Persona 2, or Breath of Fire IV. I have mobile ports of RPGs from that era on my backlog anyway.

Generally all I'm saying is, if Square Enix can straight-up port Final Fantasy Tactics to a phone and charge $20 for it, why can't anyone make a new game like FFTactics for mobile phones and charge $20 for it? It wouldn't get the Clash of Clans audience but it wouldn't need to. The traditional SRPG audience would likely pay that $20.