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PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,812
I think the key for me is how much agency Gwen is allowed to have.

She breaks up with Peter
She makes first reconnection
She refuses Peter telling her to stay back.

Give Emma a Spider-Gwen movie

They actually were before the franchised was canned. Hell they had plans to even bring her back as Carnage.

On track also the suit in this movie looks like cheap cosplay. I don't know why people say it's good. Rhino had bad acting, Green Goblin looked like a ridiculous gremlin, the parent stuff was dumb(don't get me started on the alternate ending....), Electro was eh. Gwen's death was predictable and too quick though I did like it's impact on Peter and Peter and Gwen for me are still the best Spider-Man movie couple so far. Still overall a bad film.
 

魑魅魍魎

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,668
This was a trash movie with hardly any redeeming qualities. The spider-man suit was good though. All of the villains and Gwen Stacy love store and parents subplot were terrible. Andrew wasn't even a good Peter Parker.
 

Hiraeth

Member
Mar 16, 2018
540
London, UK
The best that Spider-Man has ever looked in motion in a movie. The movement and webswinging is all gorgeous. They really, really nailed it.

Other than that though, it's the worst Spider-Man movie by far.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,035
I don't think I like it anywhere near as much as the Raimi movies but I agree that it's pretty underrated. I kinda hated ASM1 as well. I just think the highs of thie movie are really high and can make me look past some of the crap. Also I just love everything about the clock tower scene and how the movie ends. It's almost the only time i've really felt stakes in a superhero movie and you could feel the tension. From the time green goblin arrives after defeating electro till the end of the movie is possibly my favourite sequence of scenes in any CBM.
 

DarthSpider

The Fallen
Nov 15, 2017
2,957
Hiroshima, Japan
No way. Those movies have no heart and soul. Peter is also creepy as fuck and Garfield plays him like a spaz instead of a dweeb. The web swinging scenes are amazing though and the costume from ASM2 is the best one ever put to film, hands down.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,986
Lol thanks bro

The movie is absolutely not bad/garbage filmmaking unless you think the script is the be all of filmmaking


Visually speaking the film is phenomenal

The action is crisp , framed, and clear.

I will defend your Kitty Pryde stanning to the death, but I cannot brook the ASM2 love. It's a garish, cluttered, embarrassing film visually. Electro's design is mortifying, the "web hand" thing during Gwen's fall caused the opening night crowd to laugh uproariously at my screening, and it's just a mess on every possible level. Even the fight choreography with the Lizard was better than anything in ASM2, and I barely managed to sit through ASM1.

God these movies were terrible. Just astounding. Poor Andrew Garfield got screwed.
 

Hark

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,163
I watched TAS1 for the first time the other night and couldn't believe what I was watching. Total misfire. Not sure I can make it to 2.
 

Slacker247

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,063
I'm doing a rewatch and am about to rewatch TASM2. I recall really _hating_ the whole parent subplot, the Norman plot, and them never going anywhere with it. But I do recall the Spidey scenes being pretty good. Other than that, I also remember it being emo at times.

All the movies are enjoyable in their own ways. I don't even like Tobey in the role very much, but his movies are enjoyable too and they all put their own spin on the character, which is interesting. I think, personally, I've just grown out of the blinded fanboy and the entitled persona that comes with that and try to enjoy the adaptations that these are and what they do with it (obviously there will be things I don't like, as above). Like, I no longer care about it not being "my" X, or Y. I have a version of it, nothing lasts forever, let's see this new spin on things, let's hear it. I can just revisit "my" one whenever I want. Actually, the best thing is that movies have come such a long way that it's exciting to know that future generations could bring further news actors, stories, etc to us. We might not like it, but it's exciting. Nicholas Hammond was for one, Shinji Todo for another, Tobey for them, Andrew for those, Tom for today... who knows what tomorrow will bring - I might not like every version, but I try to enjoy where I can being an overall Spider-Man fan (applies to other heroes and characters too).
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,545
Cape Cod, MA
Folks it's easily the best comic book version of the character


It's visually incredible
Best Spidey suit
The score is mint
Andrew Garfield is Peter he is Spider-Man
Emma Stone is Gwen the perfect Gwen

We can talk about the periphery problems with the parents and rushing of Harry

But every action piece is incredible, Electro was an interesting approach with some gorgeous effects and a feast of a final confrontation

And that clocktower scene is probably one of the best comic book movie scenes ever, just a devastatingly beautiful scene that perfectly captures the comic source, the web morphing into a hand, that visceral snap that you just felt. Good lord

Fuck it this movie (and honestly ASM 1 too) has aged so well while legit the Raimi ones have not, the pacification and subjugation of MJ to be Peter's faildamsel with little agency of her own is just oof... Gwen is Peter's intellectual superior here, she's got agency for days

This movie was beautiful where it needed to be beautiful

It is my favorite Spider-Man movie.

Ok you can boo me now.
((((((Excelsiorlef))))))

Preach. I love ASM2.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,645
I hated it. I don't like Gwen dying

Gwen dying was a big moment in Spider-Man (and comics in general) so I totally understand why they would want to construct a film around it. They just blew it massively. And now with Spider-Gwen being a thing, we will never have the full impact of what that story meant in any Spider-Man adaptation.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,079
People who criticize the hand-web from the clocktower scene as being cringe or whatever is the raw manifestation of the dunning-kruger effect. "I have noticed the intention of the author, ergo it is bad. I am very smart." It's pure superfluous observation that is in no way coming from an honest, true want of understanding, discussion or even appreciation of the arts.

I suspect that CinemaSins and RedLetterMedia have a hand in injecting this in online media discussion, but that's a topic for another day.
 
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AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,686
I just finished rewatching Amazing 1! Probably will watch 2 later this week. I haven't seen it since it was in theaters.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,079
I just finished rewatching Amazing 1! Probably will watch 2 later this week. I haven't seen it since it was in theaters.
What did you think of Amazing 1? Did your opinion of it change? I'd also be curious to read your thoughts on Amazing 2 after you're done with it.

My opinion of both movies improved on my rewatch. I wasn't expecting this for ASM2.
 

YolkFolk

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
The North, England
No way. Those movies have no heart and soul. Peter is also creepy as fuck and Garfield plays him like a spaz instead of a dweeb. The web swinging scenes are amazing though and the costume from ASM2 is the best one ever put to film, hands down.

Peter isn't supposed to be a complete dweeb though. How do you think he's able to pull women like MJ? The depressing and dour Peter from the Rami movies made people think Peter is meant to be that way be he isn't. Admittedly the Garfield Peter was too cool but I thought they got a good mix with Tom Holland in the MCU. He's a geek but he isn't a total loser.
 

chromefrog

Member
Nov 26, 2017
374
the writing is complete dogshit and Garfields Parker is just…. Bizarre. Also… Raimi is a better director than Webb, one example being that he picks up where the script drops the ball by accommodating for any weak or cheesy dialogue with the fun and lively tone of his films(though that is also editing so i won't give too much credit there). Whereas all the bad writing in the ASMs is played straight and without an ounce of charm or self awareness. the suit looks good and Garfield's Spidey is pretty good, but ill stick with Raimi any day of the week.
 

Shoe

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
Disappointed dad Denis Leary ghost was completely hilarious every time
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,264
man, peter was just a piece of shit in those movies

no sympathy for him

in the comics when gwen's dad died he asked peter to look after gwen for him and keep her safe so when gwen died it's a bit of dramatic irony- Peter did the right thing and Gwen still died

in the movies, gwen's dad tells Peter to stay away from her in his dying moments since he knew that Peter's life will lead to trouble and Peter promises him but as soon as he's dead he goes back to Gwen and when Gwen goes "don't make a promise you can't keep" this piece of shit goes "but those are the best kind" like it was a charming one liner

so when Gwen dies because of her involvement in Peter's business it's all his fault
 

DarthSpider

The Fallen
Nov 15, 2017
2,957
Hiroshima, Japan
Peter isn't supposed to be a complete dweeb though. How do you think he's able to pull women like MJ? The depressing and dour Peter from the Rami movies made people think Peter is meant to be that way be he isn't. Admittedly the Garfield Peter was too cool but I thought they got a good mix with Tom Holland in the MCU. He's a geek but he isn't a total loser.
He is during his origin, which is when the movies take place. The characterization of Garfield's Parker was way off in my opinion. Both in how he was written and how it was acted. I agree with you about Tom Holland.
 

Adam_Roman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,066
I always liked ASM1, and it took until last year for me to realize how good ASM2 is. Yes it has flaws, but so do the Raimi movies and everyone glosses over those in a heartbeat.
 

Axon

Banned
Mar 9, 2020
2,397
People who criticize the hand-web from the clocktower scene as being cringe or whatever is the raw manifestation of the dunning-kruger effect. "I have noticed the intention of the author, ergo it is bad. I am very smart." It's pure superfluous observation that is in no way coming from an honest, true want of understanding, discussion or even appreciation of the arts.

I suspect that CinemaSins and RedLetterMedia have a hand in injecting this in online media discussion, but that's a topic for another day.

Preach. This is so true. I also suspect people that complain about this stuff cant handle when a piece of art is either sincere or sentimental. It makes them feel vulnerable or something.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,015
Nope. It is way less bullshity than Homecoming and Far From Home, but it is still an incredibly underwhelming flick that sloppily handles everything it tries to include.

It may not have MCU Spidey kid humor, but goddamn is it a drag.
 

Anatole

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,430
Here's my hot take: besides not liking the plot and characters, I don't even think the movie looks good, which a lot of people seem to agree on. Whenever someone posts a shot or GIF from the movie to try to make that point, it's always just dim scenes with lots of glowing, colorful objects onscreen. That type of lighting may be striking, but imo it obfuscates that the film doesn't actually look very good.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,599
giphy.gif

Excellent usage.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,386
The one thing I remember overwhelmingly from this pair of films was they had appallingly bad villain design. The Raimi trilogy was up and down (terrible Goblin twice, great Doc Ock and Sandman, so-so Venom), but this pair missed every time. A naked Goomba for the Lizard (my favourite villain as a kid, so I was extra pissed off he wasn't the dino in a lab coat design), a meth addict for Goblin and whatever the fuck Electro is supposed to be.

The one thing I hope folks can agree on for the MCU films is they've nailed the villain design, Vulture and Mysterio both looked superb. I'm a little disappointed that No Way Home means we aren't going to see fully MCU takes on Green Goblin or others.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,761
I legit haven't watched any spider man movie since 3 on opening night 2007 haha. I still enjoyed that at the moment and everyone looked at me crazy for liking it haha. It is bad but I had fun.

I've always wanted to watch the amazing series and the Holland ones.

well TBF I loved spider verse too
 

Axon

Banned
Mar 9, 2020
2,397
One thing that I find hilarious is that when people talk about The Amazing Spider-Man movies is that they say the plot is "bad".

I hate to break it to you, but none of the Spider-Man movies are particularly well written.

Spider-Man 1 and 2 are both incredibly basic films that follow the purest form of the cookie-cutter early 2000s superhero movie plot. Spider-Man 3 is just a mess overall, much more so than TASM2.

Spider-Man 1 is an incredibly dated film that today reads more like a comedy or a parody than an actually sincere attempt at a Spider-Man movie. The reason for this is that Raimi infused this movie with alot of his directing sensibilities from Evil Dead 2 and 3, which results in the directing and cinematography of this movie beeing completely at odds with the subject matter.

Spider-Man 2 is abit more solid, but even when compared to other movies of the time, its not a standout film by any metric. Not in terms of acting, cinematography or script. I also think that Tobey Maguire is somewhat miscast as both Peter and Spider-Man. He just doesnt disappear into the role like Andrew does.

Spider-Man 3 is a complete mess both in terms of the script and in terms of the tone. It had subpar special-effects, even for its time - remember, this movie came out the same year that the first Transformers movie redefined what good CGI and spectacle action in a blockbuster movie could be.

All three of these are unremarkable movies from an unremarkable time in cinema. Im 100% convinced that if people didnt have nostalgia for these films, noone would think these are particularly good movies. If the TASM movies came out first, nobody would think the Raimi movies are superior.

Spider-Man: Homecoming, like all MCU movies, is just a bunch of nothing, theres really not anything to discuss there. It also doesnt really tell a Spider-Man story.

Havent seen Far From Home.

I would actually say that TASM1 is the movie out of all of these that has the most substance. It handles the transition from Peter beeing just a superpowered kid to actually becoming Spider-Man the best.

In the end, this leaves us with a bunch of movies that all struggle and are heavily flawed, especially in the writing department. What TASM2 brings to the table is the best directing, cinematography, music, actors and suit out of all of these films. And the script of TASM2 is atleast on-par with what all the other movies have to offer - which kind of makes it the best movie by default.
 

Revali

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,395
Rito Village
All this talk of Electro's design reminds me of how dirty they did the Lizard in the first movie. Like, whoever dreamt that up should be webbed to the Empire State Building and left there. He should look like, I dunno, a lizard, not some deformed version of that rock dude from the Fantastic Four.
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,704
Yeah Tobey never stuck me as Spider-man at any point in his movies. Spider-man is a wise cracking smart-aleck who tends to use humour as a defense mechanism. I never got that at all from Tobey.
He's more of a Spider-Man in the video games based on his movies. Even through his stiff voice acting. I'm not even joking.
 

Whistler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,719
The core of Spidey is pathos and the the only ones to nail that are the Raimi trilogy. The others are too concerned with making sure you don't think that any of this is actually cool to attempt it.
 

FaultLineBlues

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Jul 14, 2020
1,013
There are dozens of us!!
I fucking love this movie man. Andrew Garfield Is Spider-Man/Peter Parker to me and I can't be convinced otherwise.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,079
Preach. This is so true. I also suspect people that complain about this stuff cant handle when a piece of art is either sincere or sentimental. It makes them feel vulnerable or something.
100%. I also suspect that, if we dig deep at the core of this sentiment, we'd find trace dna of toxic masculinity. Internalized and subconscious. "Cannot feel sentimental or appreciate honest, raw display of emotion or else pavlovian response of rejection", or something.

These type of comments also often make me think of this video from Just Write:

 

Gigi A

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,060
Austin, TX
Peter Parker? naaaaaah
Spider-Man? definitely more closer than the rest

I'll always love Tobey because my dude got hands